Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

qbrozen

breld said:

So, when I drive my kids to school in the morning, it tends to be a 30-45 minute drive, with part of it in stop and go traffic. With our recent snowfall, this morning's commute was on the worse side of it, closer to 45 minutes to an hour. My younger son has a tendency to experience some minor carsickness when the commute is longer, and definitely more so in the 428i than the previous SUV or our minivan.

All that is to say...

The longer term plan has always been for me to trade out of the BMW at the end of the year when the van's lease was up, into a nicer SUV, but now I'm considering seeing what my options would be to trade out of the Kia van into a more moderately priced SUV (and keep the BMW).

Right off the bat, the value of the Kia may be a deal breaker (checking in with Q on that). But...if it does make any sense, what say you all about an SUV around the $25k mark?

I'm thinking...

Strong preference to maintain a 3rd row option, so Durango or CX-9, maybe a Highlander or Pilot, but the latter two hold their value well, so probably nicer options on the Dodge or Mazda.

If I give up the 3rd row, a Touareg or Grand Cherokee? But getting to $25k on those probably means higher miles than I'd want on those brands.

If nothing else, fun to think about.

Not sure what you think is higher miles, but I found plenty of SUVs with reasonable miles for under $25k. I wasn't looking for 3 rows, though. I do recall a couple of MDXs and Pilots, though. I don't like the Durango, personally. Drove a rental back from Florida and did not enjoy it, even though it was loaded with heated leather seats and upgraded touchscreen stereo. Guess I'd vote CX9.

suydam

Seems like your family and all their stuff really need a minivan.
I never found the Jeep GCs to be that roomy in terms of people comfort outside of the front seats.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

28firefighter said:

nyccarguy said:

Just got a call from my service advisor. He left me a message saying the rear brakes need to be replaced and the rotors need to be resurfaced ($349.95 + tax) as well as the air filter and cabin filter (these I can buy from Subaruonlineparts.com for $17.12 & $17.93 each and replace myself). Im going to ask him how many mm thick the brake pads are at and how warped the rotors are.

The rotors are warped? Wouldn't you have noticed that?

Brake Pads are at 4mm after 44K miles. He said they noticed some surface rust and some pitting.

that's BS, IMHO. I really hate that they replace rotors these days seemingly with every pad change.

They are going to resurface the rotors. Between the rear pads, rotor resurfacing, & set of snow shoes, this is going to be an expensive service visit.

nippononly

suydam said:

That's true. Tesla can use other kinds of chargers but other electric cars can't use theirs. Makes no sense.

Oh I think it makes perfect sense - they want their network to be only for their owners, an exclusive perk of Tesla ownership. And as ungenerous as that seems, I do get that they were the first ones to go out there and really make a major infrastructure investment in electric charging for cars...

Michaell

rny421 said:

Hello everyone,
I have a friend that will be looking for a new car, as his Sentra was totaled. He's on a $200/mo or less budget, so I'm pushing him towards leasing so he can get his footing, and then probably buy the next time around.

For a lease, I'd rather have him put $0 down, and get the best value for his money. Otherwise, he's looking at only a roughly $12k car for 5 years at 3%, and I don't think that leaves him enough monthly wiggle room in the event of a repair, which is more than likely with a used vehicle (tires, brakes, etc.).

He's not too picky about cars, but needs the basics - Automatic, bluetooth, power locks/mirrors, keyless entry, and cruise control. I'll do some pre-screening this weekend for him, and then we're going to look next week. I'm thinking Chevy Cruze, VW Jetta, Hyundai Elantra, Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla.

What are the chances of getting any of these for $200 per month or less all-in, including that pesky 8% tax in upstate NY.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated if you know of a particular model that is undergoing a fire-sale. We're looking to do something within the next few weeks. Thanks!

Surprisingly, I think you could get a sparsely equipped mid sized sedan at that payment - Accord LX, Mazda 6 Sport, Sonata SE.

Really, you should have him test drive and see what he likes. Lots of folks focus solely on the numbers and end up with a car they can't live with for 3 years.

andres3

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:

I took my Legacy I for an oil change & snow tire installation this afternoon. As always, I was provided with a loaner. I got a 2017 Legacy 2.5i Premium with EYESIGHT. The 2.5i Premium comes very nicely equipped with Heated, Cloth Seats & Power Liftgate. It also has the EYESIGHT package which includes blind spot monitoring, adaptive cruise control & Lane change assist.

I know this is my Legacy's mechanical twin, but there is definitely a difference in how the 2 cars drive. The Outback feels more solid. The transmission seems to be programmed differently (I swear it feels faster than my car). The Outback is quieter & lets in much less wind noise than my Legacy. The suspension damping makes the outback feel more planted than my Legacy. I can see this car being a really nice driver with the 3.6L H6 motor.

My car doesn't have EYESIGHT. It works incredibly well. Even though the Outback has oversized mirrors, the Blind Spot detectors give an extra boost of confidence. The adaptive cruise control is off the wall. The Outback slows down, comes to a stop in traffic, then starts up again. It beeps at you if you wander to the line & will bring the car back to the middle of the lane.

If I was in the market, I'd take this Outback 2.5i over a RAV 4 or CRV.

It's supposed to snow tonight into tomorrow so I'll get to see how well the Outback handles the White Stuff.

Add the 3.6 engine and leather and you'd have my wife's car. She loves it. If I choose not to replace the Jetta at the end of the lease, I'd drive it more frequently.

That 3.6 Outback really does earn its "R" badging. I'm guessing Subaru is underating the horsepower or they managed to put a very stiff rubber band in the CVT coupled with a sensitive throttle pedal.

andres3

28firefighter said:

suydam said:

Are you ordering because no dealers have what you want in stock? Do you have.a color combo in mind? Particular packages?
I was so lucky fo find the exact car I wanted in a color combo I like on the lot when I was shopping. Made everything so much easier.

There are very few XTs on dealer lots because the hot sellers are the models with the 2.5 4-cylinder like @nyccarguy has in his legacy. I think there are a total of 5 XT Tourings on the ground within 150 miles of Seattle.

Also, @stickguy is right. I want to factory order it with exactly the accessories I want so that I'm not paying for stuff I won't use and paying dealer labor fees to install the stuff that is missing.

Now are there only 5 because everyone's buying the XT's up quickly, or only 5 because they can't sell them? How do you know?

breld

So, the trade offer from Carmax left something to be desired, but it was nice to be able to look at a variety of vehicles and take a couple test drives.

The Infiniti JX35s appear to be good values given their level of equipment and presumed reliability. And then I drove it. Just did nothing for me - in all honesty, the Sedona is more pleasurable to drive (to be fair, the Kia is a pretty nice van). I don't know if it was the CVT or what, but it was just "blah."

I looked at a couple CX-9s too (previous gen of course) - maybe it's 'cause I've already owned one, but I didn't find them too exciting, even though I enjoyed ours while we had it. The new one I like a lot, but that's a different price point of course.

Then I drove an 80k mile 2014 Durango. I wouldn't consider one that miled up, but it's the only one they had. Funny, since I would think @qbrozen and I have more similar tastes than not, but I absolutely loved the Durango. Completely different feel from the Infiniti, being much more engaging to drive with a very responsive drivetrain (it was the V-6). It was very reminiscent of the German SUVs I've driven, including the X5 we had, which makes sense given its MB roots. I was particularly impressed with how tight this one felt, what with 80k miles on the clock.

And the one I drove was a pretty basic SXT model with "just" the V-6. So I'm pretty excited about the prospect of finding one with less miles, but knowing that I was very pleased without jumping up to an upper trim level or the Hemi.

stickguy

other than the obvious reason, what is the reason that you can't just drive the van for the commuting/kid delivery duty, since that is what it was obtained for? Lease is up some time in 2017, right? So just ride it out, and use all the miles you are paying for anyway!

nyccarguy

OK, so I got my car back. I really liked the Outback. I'm really glad it didn't have the 6. All things considered, I didn't do too bad. The $1,040.29 was a tough one to swallow (that's about 2 1/2 payments), but all work was performed by Subaru trained technicians. Here's how it breaks down:

Full 0W 20 Synthetic oil change with filter & gasket - $48.95

New snow shoes came out to $127 each (they would have been $124.75 each with freight from Tire Rack)

$19.98 mounting and balancing for each tire

I was originally quoted $349 plus tax for the rear pads & rotor resurfacing. They did it for $319.95

OEM tires are still in good shape.

Since I've invested in snow shoes, new brakes, & various other levels of preventative maintenance, it looks like we're in this for the long haul.

stickguy

now you need to get on Ebay and look for some nicer wheels for summer duty. Maybe a +1 with good tires.

sda

nyccarguy said:

OK, so I got my car back. I really liked the Outback. I'm really glad it didn't have the 6. All things considered, I didn't do too bad. The $1,040.29 was a tough one to swallow (that's about 2 1/2 payments), but all work was performed by Subaru trained technicians. Here's how it breaks down:

Full 0W 20 Synthetic oil change with filter & gasket - $48.95

New snow shoes came out to $127 each (they would have been $124.75 each with freight from Tire Rack)

$19.98 mounting and balancing for each tire

I was originally quoted $349 plus tax for the rear pads & rotor resurfacing. They did it for $319.95

OEM tires are still in good shape.

Since I've invested in snow shoes, new brakes, & various other levels of preventative maintenance, it looks like we're in this for the long haul.

What tires did you end up buying?

corvette

$320 for rear brakes sounds way too high. And the rotors generally don't need resurfacing unless they're warped, but some shops just automatically include this in a brake service.

nyccarguy

$80 each pad plus $120/hour (X 2 hours) of labor.

I ended up going with the Yokohama Ice Guard

breld

stickguy said:

other than the obvious reason, what is the reason that you can't just drive the van for the commuting/kid delivery duty, since that is what it was obtained for? Lease is up some time in 2017, right? So just ride it out, and use all the miles you are paying for anyway!

Well, yeah, the "obvious" reason is the main reason!

FWIW, I have almost "used" all the miles I paid for at this point (have less than 6k left for the next year). If some dealer stepped up on it, I'd be very tempted to basically trade out of the lease early.

breld

nyccarguy said:

Since I've invested in snow shoes, new brakes, & various other levels of preventative maintenance, it looks like we're in this for the long haul.

Never stopped me!

The wife's previous MINI had practically brand new snow tires (now on craigslist) and new front brakes a few months ago.

Now your Legacy is just a prime candidate for the new owner - "nothing needed!"

Michaell

We had a nasty habit of trading in our cars within months of putting new tires on them. Did that with both the '08 VUE and the CX-7.

Though, it was the cost of the 60K service on the Mazda that prompted us to trade out of it and into the Outback.

nyccarguy

breld said:

nyccarguy said:

Since I've invested in snow shoes, new brakes, & various other levels of preventative maintenance, it looks like we're in this for the long haul.

Never stopped me!

The wife's previous MINI had practically brand new snow tires (now on craigslist) and new front brakes a few months ago.

Now your Legacy is just a prime candidate for the new owner - "nothing needed!"

Ha! You are hysterical! Between the recent maintenance & the fact that I'm about $4K under water right now, I'll stand Pat for a while.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

now you need to get on Ebay and look for some nicer wheels for summer duty. Maybe a +1 with good tires.

I happen to really like the 18" wheels that come on the Limited. They have 50 series sidewalks, so there is definitely some meat there.

stickguy

look nice. Just need to find a set on Ebay.

stickguy

so, browsing around while I wait for the snow to accumulate (yuck). This is pretty. Miles not too bad. From watching QB shop, price is probably not too bad?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/684849407/overview/

houdini1

Michaell said:

We had a nasty habit of trading in our cars within months of putting new tires on them. Did that with both the '08 VUE and the CX-7.

Though, it was the cost of the 60K service on the Mazda that prompted us to trade out of it and into the Outback.

Michaell said:

We had a nasty habit of trading in our cars within months of putting new tires on them. Did that with both the '08 VUE and the CX-7.

Though, it was the cost of the 60K service on the Mazda that prompted us to trade out of it and into the Outback.

I think buying new tires is a last ditch effort to prevent yourself from buying a new car that you know you don't need. Never seems to work though.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

breld said:

So, when I drive my kids to school in the morning, it tends to be a 30-45 minute drive, with part of it in stop and go traffic. With our recent snowfall, this morning's commute was on the worse side of it, closer to 45 minutes to an hour. My younger son has a tendency to experience some minor carsickness when the commute is longer, and definitely more so in the 428i than the previous SUV or our minivan.

All that is to say...

The longer term plan has always been for me to trade out of the BMW at the end of the year when the van's lease was up, into a nicer SUV, but now I'm considering seeing what my options would be to trade out of the Kia van into a more moderately priced SUV (and keep the BMW).

Right off the bat, the value of the Kia may be a deal breaker (checking in with Q on that). But...if it does make any sense, what say you all about an SUV around the $25k mark?

I'm thinking...

Strong preference to maintain a 3rd row option, so Durango or CX-9, maybe a Highlander or Pilot, but the latter two hold their value well, so probably nicer options on the Dodge or Mazda.

If I give up the 3rd row, a Touareg or Grand Cherokee? But getting to $25k on those probably means higher miles than I'd want on those brands.

If nothing else, fun to think about.

Not sure what you think is higher miles, but I found plenty of SUVs with reasonable miles for under $25k. I wasn't looking for 3 rows, though. I do recall a couple of MDXs and Pilots, though. I don't like the Durango, personally. Drove a rental back from Florida and did not enjoy it, even though it was loaded with heated leather seats and upgraded touchscreen stereo. Guess I'd vote CX9.

IMHO, with a Jeep product or a VW, once you see something near 80,000 miles, you stop looking at that particular vehicle.

28firefighter

Question for the experts here...

A friend is trying to nail down a bimmer lease and has found pricing in the SoCal area is much more impressive than up here in Seattle. He had a deal negotiated and then they told him they won't sell to an out of state buyer?

Mr_Shiftright

Michaell said:

rny421 said:

Hello everyone,
I have a friend that will be looking for a new car, as his Sentra was totaled. He's on a $200/mo or less budget, so I'm pushing him towards leasing so he can get his footing, and then probably buy the next time around.

For a lease, I'd rather have him put $0 down, and get the best value for his money. Otherwise, he's looking at only a roughly $12k car for 5 years at 3%, and I don't think that leaves him enough monthly wiggle room in the event of a repair, which is more than likely with a used vehicle (tires, brakes, etc.).

He's not too picky about cars, but needs the basics - Automatic, bluetooth, power locks/mirrors, keyless entry, and cruise control. I'll do some pre-screening this weekend for him, and then we're going to look next week. I'm thinking Chevy Cruze, VW Jetta, Hyundai Elantra, Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla.

What are the chances of getting any of these for $200 per month or less all-in, including that pesky 8% tax in upstate NY.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated if you know of a particular model that is undergoing a fire-sale. We're looking to do something within the next few weeks. Thanks!

Surprisingly, I think you could get a sparsely equipped mid sized sedan at that payment - Accord LX, Mazda 6 Sport, Sonata SE.

Really, you should have him test drive and see what he likes. Lots of folks focus solely on the numbers and end up with a car they can't live with for 3 years.

Looking at current lease offers on the Chevy Cruze, you can't quite get to $199/month with no down. From my rough calculations, you could probably swing $225 a month for 39 months on a decently equipped LT.

stickguy

you can do it on an Elantra.

tjc78

You can do an Elantra for 200 with no money down. My SE has the tech package and I'm at 210 with $250 out of pocket. I'm sure you could get a base SE for under $200 if you pushed enough.

I don't think there is any midsize you can do for 200 with only first payment out of pocket. The 16 Passats would do it when they blew them out in October/Nov

stickguy

sometimes it is all about the timing. July 2015, when I got the Jetta, I was at the Honda store first, and had a deal on the table for $185/month on a Civic Si. Only tax and tags, 1st payment down (roughly, it was $1,000 inception then 35 more payments, 36,000 miles). That was hard to beat.

tjc78

@stickguy , enjoying the snow?? Shop Rite was fun this morning, ugh.

stickguy

thankfully we went Thursday night. Not great timing, we just got our first foster dog yesterday.

tjc78

Good call, we always do Saturday. My cousin used to foster, loved it.

That Si lease was good. I would have jumped on that.

stickguy

I should have. The debate we had was about what to give to the princess. That would have been for me, which meant giving her the Sonata to take to college, and having the lease fun out in the first half of her senior year. So logistically, it didn't work. Made a lot more sense to get something less fancy for her, that would take her through graduation.

now, when my lease runs out, if there is a deal like that available, it gets done!

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

you can do it on an Elantra.

Where did you find that offer? I'm only seeing $169/month + $1995 down for 36 months, so that's about $224 a month.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

so, browsing around while I wait for the snow to accumulate (yuck). This is pretty. Miles not too bad. From watching QB shop, price is probably not too bad?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/684849407/overview/

Really wish I could have gotten that color, but I'm happy with the miles and deal on mine, and the black interior is growing on me. Not so bad in a smallish vehicle.

Now, you realize that one is RWD, right? Price is pretty good. About a $13k auction car.

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

Question for the experts here...

A friend is trying to nail down a bimmer lease and has found pricing in the SoCal area is much more impressive than up here in Seattle. He had a deal negotiated and then they told him they won't sell to an out of state buyer?

Usually, a lease isn't an issue, if the other state is also a "monthly tax" state. CA requires taxes to be paid, even by out-of-state buyers, so it's possible this dealer just chooses to not deal with those shoppers. They might see a lot of those deals fall through, as well.

It's certainly not a BMWFS issue.

28firefighter

kyfdx said:

Question for the experts here...

A friend is trying to nail down a bimmer lease and has found pricing in the SoCal area is much more impressive than up here in Seattle. He had a deal negotiated and then they told him they won't sell to an out of state buyer?

Usually, a lease isn't an issue, if the other state is also a "monthly tax" state. CA requires taxes to be paid, even by out-of-state buyers, so it's possible this dealer just chooses to not deal with those shoppers. They might see a lot of those deals fall through, as well. It's certainly not a BMWFS issue.

That's interesting. So on a lease it doesn't really matter, but on a purchase they'd pay double sales tax?

stickguy

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

so, browsing around while I wait for the snow to accumulate (yuck). This is pretty. Miles not too bad. From watching QB shop, price is probably not too bad?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/684849407/overview/

Really wish I could have gotten that color, but I'm happy with the miles and deal on mine, and the black interior is growing on me. Not so bad in a smallish vehicle.

Now, you realize that one is RWD, right? Price is pretty good. About a $13k auction car.

Actually I did not look that closely. Doesn't really bother me at all, but would have to be a really good deal, just for resale.

stickguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

stickguy said:

you can do it on an Elantra.

Where did you find that offer? I'm only seeing $169/month + $1995 down for 36 months, so that's about $224 a month.

oh, I'm not talking about the manufacturer advertised deals. You can beat those in the real world.

Mr_Shiftright

You mean by beating down on the MSRP and MF?

stickguy

MF and residual might be the same. But cap cost doesn't have to be!

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

kyfdx said:

28firefighter said:

Question for the experts here...

A friend is trying to nail down a bimmer lease and has found pricing in the SoCal area is much more impressive than up here in Seattle. He had a deal negotiated and then they told him they won't sell to an out of state buyer?

Usually, a lease isn't an issue, if the other state is also a "monthly tax" state. CA requires taxes to be paid, even by out-of-state buyers, so it's possible this dealer just chooses to not deal with those shoppers. They might see a lot of those deals fall through, as well.

It's certainly not a BMWFS issue.

That's interesting. So on a lease it doesn't really matter, but on a purchase they'd pay double sales tax?

Exactly. The only way around it is for the dealership to deliver out-of-state.

But, if the monthly payment is taxed, BMWFS collects it from the lessee, each month, based on where the car is registered, so it doesn't matter what CA thinks about it.

28firefighter

kyfdx said:

kyfdx said:

Question for the experts here...

A friend is trying to nail down a bimmer lease and has found pricing in the SoCal area is much more impressive than up here in Seattle. He had a deal negotiated and then they told him they won't sell to an out of state buyer?

Usually, a lease isn't an issue, if the other state is also a "monthly tax" state. CA requires taxes to be paid, even by out-of-state buyers, so it's possible this dealer just chooses to not deal with those shoppers. They might see a lot of those deals fall through, as well. It's certainly not a BMWFS issue.

That's interesting. So on a lease it doesn't really matter, but on a purchase they'd pay double sales tax?

Exactly. The only way around it is for the dealership to deliver out-of-state. But, if the monthly payment is taxed, BMWFS collects it from the lessee, each month, based on where the car is registered, so it doesn't matter what CA thinks about it.

Exactly. And I just did some more research and it looks like as long as the car is trucked off the lot and not driven on CA roads, you can skirt this even for a normal buy. 

Thanks, @kyfdx

qbrozen

breld said:

So, the trade offer from Carmax left something to be desired, but it was nice to be able to look at a variety of vehicles and take a couple test drives. The Infiniti JX35s appear to be good values given their level of equipment and presumed reliability. And then I drove it. Just did nothing for me - in all honesty, the Sedona is more pleasurable to drive (to be fair, the Kia is a pretty nice van). I don't know if it was the CVT or what, but it was just "blah." I looked at a couple CX-9s too (previous gen of course) - maybe it's 'cause I've already owned one, but I didn't find them too exciting, even though I enjoyed ours while we had it. The new one I like a lot, but that's a different price point of course. Then I drove an 80k mile 2014 Durango. I wouldn't consider one that miled up, but it's the only one they had. Funny, since I would think @qbrozen and I have more similar tastes than not, but I absolutely loved the Durango. Completely different feel from the Infiniti, being much more engaging to drive with a very responsive drivetrain (it was the V-6). It was very reminiscent of the German SUVs I've driven, including the X5 we had, which makes sense given its MB roots. I was particularly impressed with how tight this one felt, what with 80k miles on the clock. And the one I drove was a pretty basic SXT model with "just" the V-6. So I'm pretty excited about the prospect of finding one with less miles, but knowing that I was very pleased without jumping up to an upper trim level or the Hemi.

Diff'rent strokes. Lots of people like the Durango. You are driving a Kia, sooo... ;b
Seriously, though, as I mentioned after my trip home in the Durango, getting into our Town & Country afterwards felt like climbing into a top-tier luxo car. Way better seats, better sound insulation, smoother ride, etc. just make sure you test drive it extensively.

rny421

Mr_Shiftright said:

Michaell said:

Surprisingly, I think you could get a sparsely equipped mid sized sedan at that payment - Accord LX, Mazda 6 Sport, Sonata SE.

Really, you should have him test drive and see what he likes. Lots of folks focus solely on the numbers and end up with a car they can't live with for 3 years.

Looking at current lease offers on the Chevy Cruze, you can't quite get to $199/month with no down. From my rough calculations, you could probably swing $225 a month for 39 months on a decently equipped LT.

I was thinking the Cruze would be competitive, as well as VW, Hyundai, and Kia products.
I know this doesn't make sense to most of us here, but my friend is the kind of guy that wouldn't mind if I said - "Hey, I already made the deal, we're going to pick up the Chevy Cruze for you."

We have a good dealer network for Subaru, Ford, and Chevy locally that's very upfront, and it's no dicker sticker. It might not be the absolute best deal, but at least it's fair and low pressure.

I'll give an update after this week.

suydam

The Cruze is surprisingly more expensive than it should be.

Michaell

I know it's leased, but I couldn't help myself ...

stickguy

washed it? Looks good. I keep mine nice too. force of habit I guess. Plus want them nice for getting turned back in!

tjc78

Subtle touch on the exhaust. I like it.

Dealer emblem needs to go!

stickguy

Ah. added chrome tips, not just washed?

I do draw the line at spending money at upgrades!

fintail

Those dealer stickers...glad they are rarely seen in this area.