Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

henryn

qbrozen said:

corvette said:

I've bought three used Nissans, and all three depreciated enough to make them good to buy used, but have been reliable enough that I can't help but wonder why they don't hold their value like Honda and Toyota. Guess I can't complain since I got the benefit of the high depreciation by buying them used!

It still comes down to the car rather than brand. I had a V6 6-speed Accord that depreciated harshly, for example.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- end quote=-=-=-=-=-===-=-

Why? I'm assuming because of the stick shift?

jeffb0101

Ouch @stickguy. That makes me wonder what my Accord of the same year with 51k miles and 4 cylinder would retail for.  

nyccarguy

Anybody in the market for an Infiniti Q60? 2014 with 15K miles & its a 6-Speed Stick.

http://stamfordford.com/used-infiniti-q60-2014-stamford-ct-57971

28firefighter

I really like this color combo and the option set.

http://www.kunibmw.com/certified/BMW/2016-BMW-X1-beaverton-or-8c81bcb20a0e0a1725c5dc927c7ab997.htm

I cannot get off this BMW kick.

breld

I like the color combo on that X1 a lot. That's the blue that was on a wagon I considered a while back - really pretty.

qbrozen

henryn said:

corvette said:

I've bought three used Nissans, and all three depreciated enough to make them good to buy used, but have been reliable enough that I can't help but wonder why they don't hold their value like Honda and Toyota. Guess I can't complain since I got the benefit of the high depreciation by buying them used!

It still comes down to the car rather than brand. I had a V6 6-speed Accord that depreciated harshly, for example.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- end quote=-=-=-=-=-===-=- Why? I'm assuming because of the stick shift?

Correct. Nobody wanted anything to do with it.

stickguy

That manual convertible Q60 is probably a rare bird.

stickguy

Love the colors on that X1. Too bad no sports seats.

28firefighter

stickguy said:

Love the colors on that X1. Too bad no sports seats.

I can survive without that.

I've pinged the dealer...curious to see what they can do on it for a lease. I'm thinking between the miles and the fact it was either a demo or a service loaner, the discount needs to be 20% or so from MSRP to entice me. Right now they're at ~13%.

stickguy

If I get a BMW later this year, probably would have to be a killer lease on a loaner 2017 (in November or December). Could be fun looking after Christmas!

28firefighter

stickguy said:

If I get a BMW later this year, probably would have to be a killer lease on a loaner 2017 (in November or December). Could be fun looking after Christmas!

November definitely seems to be the sweet spot for ending MY lease incentives and residuals.

stickguy

True. And my car goes back November 8th. The stars, they may align.

The trick will be deciding what I want. And if money left to pay for it!

The shopping, that should be fun though.

tjc78

We will be shopping at pretty much the same time.

I was just checking out the Pilot. Full boat runs 47K. Only a few hundred less than my Enclave was. In all fairness, probably has more tech and 4WD. Adding in 4WD brings an Enclave like mine to 50K

stickguy

I'm like you. Would be happy to save a few $k and get FWD. I know my wife would never notice!

corvette

Coworker bought a used Escape. Didn't realize it was FWD until the first snowstorm. 

nyccarguy

I'd be curious to see how much less a Pilot would lease for than your Enclave.

rayainsw

I see the 2018 Ford Mustang will offer that new 10-speed automatic.
[ And no V6. ]

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2017/01/17/new-ford-mustang-design-technology-performance.html

Mr_Shiftright

I presume that 10-speed has all sorts of electronic controls so that you don't have to shift 10 times to get to 50 mph.

nyccarguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

I presume that 10-speed has all sorts of electronic controls so that you don't have to shift 10 times to get to 50 mph.

Heavens no. It will shift 10 times before 40 mph.

Mr_Shiftright

Well then tell me again why that's worth doing. (scratching head.....)

Seems to me if you're an engineer and you're piling on more and more speeds you might as well just give into the CVT and be done with it.

ab348

I really like the 6-speed automatic in my ATS, and it is clearly superior to the old 4-speed automatics some of my previous cars had. But there are occasions where I think it would benefit from another gear or two, or slightly different/more responsive programming. I wonder how the 10-speeds will deal with that issue.

kyfdx

We have an 8-speed automatic that's probably the best one we've ever had.

It has a lot to do with fuel efficiency. It's the same reason they build a complicated 4-cylinder turbo with stop/start, instead of a simple inline 6.

28firefighter

The dealer with that X1 is getting pretty aggressive - wife loves the color combination and it has the features we want...

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

The dealer with that X1 is getting pretty aggressive - wife loves the color combination and it has the features we want...

Don't let him act that way towards your wife!

(unless the discount is really good)

cdnpinhead

nyccarguy said:

Heavens no. It will shift 10 times before 40 mph.

As I'm sure many of you are sick of hearing, I used to drive a class 8 truck. It had a 9-speed Fuller transmission, and I often shifted four times before I got to the other side of an intersection after stopping at a light -- maybe 5 or 6, if it was wide enough. However, I did it all by hand using equipment that had been developed over decades -- no electronics and very little hype. Most trucks at that time used 13-speed transmissions in which the top four gears were split, but I digress. More ratios/speeds in today's automatics just represent incredible complexity and opportunity for failure, IMNHO. Let's imagine (yeah, I know) you want the thing to last 200K+ miles.

I'll throw in with a later comment on this thread, to the effect that once you get past about 6 or 8 speeds, you may as well go with a rubber band transmission unless, of course, you need to transmit 1250 lb-ft of torque.

stickguy

28firefighter said:

The dealer with that X1 is getting pretty aggressive - wife loves the color combination and it has the features we want...

when is the lease on the Escape up (that is a lease going back at some point, right?)

Mr_Shiftright

So if the 8 speed is better than the 6 speed, why not an 18 speed, like my bike?

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

So if the 8 speed is better than the 6 speed, why not an 18 speed, like my bike?

Well, these things take time.

A better question may be: why does your bike need 18 speeds?

xwesx

I'm going to throw out a WAG here:

1. Space.
2. Weight.

At some point, the diminishing returns make more... less.

28firefighter

stickguy said:

28firefighter said:

The dealer with that X1 is getting pretty aggressive - wife loves the color combination and it has the features we want...

when is the lease on the Escape up (that is a lease going back at some point, right?)

Lease is up in May/June.

I'll either throw it up on lease trader or turn it in early.

28firefighter

If these numbers work out, it would be crazy of me not to jump on it right now. The numbers I'm coming up with are cheaper than the Forester for the same level of equipment...

corvette

I smell a punch coming on... 

stickguy

I would grab it.

Heck, just add your last 4 payments in as money down and if the deal is still strong, go for it.

Back right before Xmas I think we hit the BMW dealer. They had a couple 3 series at tremendous lease prices. Wasn't in market, and got sold just before we wandered in, but was definetly too good to pass up if I was ready to buy.

This was a 2016 super low mile (maybe 4K) service loaner IIRC. Fine option to me on a lease.

roadburner

suydam said:

The Volt is like that too -- can't enter an address while moving. Apparently they assume we never have passengers.

That is SO idiotic.

xwesx

Well, people are stupid... and litigious... so companies have pretty stout CYA policies these days. I think the first rule in modern product testing isn't usefulness or durability, but to ask the question, "what is the most moronic thing someone could do with this...?"

28firefighter

stickguy said:

I would grab it.

Heck, just add your last 4 payments in as money down and if the deal is still strong, go for it.

Back right before Xmas I think we hit the BMW dealer. They had a couple 3 series at tremendous lease prices. Wasn't in market, and got sold just before we wandered in, but was definetly too good to pass up if I was ready to buy.

This was a 2016 super low mile (maybe 4K) service loaner IIRC. Fine option to me on a lease.

Price is $1000 drive off (inceptions) and $350/month plus tax. Discount of $11k from list.

I think we're going to jump.

stickguy

I would have have jumped at that too most likely, if I was actually in need of something. Hopefully next year I can find a nice deal like that.

qbrozen

And I figured 8 speeds was already getting to be too much. As I have previously said about my Caddy, the difference from 6th to 7th to 8th was so minor as to be insignificant. I'm finding the same in my Infiniti with its 7-speed. They really could have simply, in a 6-speed unit, made 6th the ratio of the new 7th and kept the first 5 the same and probably seen no difference in efficiency.

Mr_Shiftright

And yet, if you're the type that keeps a car a long time (most members here need not apply ), then when it comes time to rebuild this complex transmission, you're pretty much in the hole for a reman unit being shipped to your repair shop. That's not going to be cheap. Some of the German transmissions are already running $12K parts and labor.

andres3

qbrozen said:

And I figured 8 speeds was already getting to be too much. As I have previously said about my Caddy, the difference from 6th to 7th to 8th was so minor as to be insignificant. I'm finding the same in my Infiniti with its 7-speed. They really could have simply, in a 6-speed unit, made 6th the ratio of the new 7th and kept the first 5 the same and probably seen no difference in efficiency.

You'd think they'd do that, but from what I'm seeing (at least at Audi), is the 7-speed DSG's are basically an extra very useful high gear (I think 7 is the perfect amount!), whereas the 6-speed are basically the same ratios but over 6 gears. I like your idea of changing the 6th gear to 7th, but they won't leave a big "gap" between ratios like that I"m guessing is the reason for the low top gear.

Then again, from what I can tell, the Golf R's 6th gear is more like 7th, but my TTS is geared like it's missing 7th gear (TTRS $$$ needed for that 7th gear).

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

And yet, if you're the type that keeps a car a long time (most members here need not apply ), then when it comes time to rebuild this complex transmission, you're pretty much in the hole for a reman unit being shipped to your repair shop. That's not going to be cheap. Some of the German transmissions are already running $12K parts and labor.

My brain is lazy; so you do the math.

Let's say an 8 speed costs $12K and a 6 speed costs $9K. Let's say you eek out 2 MPG over 150,000 mile life span. At $4/gallon do you make a profit with the better transmission?

Mr_Shiftright

You save $1500 more or less.

My amplifier goes to "11" (old Spinal Tap joke).

stickguy

cheap wheels time. Got this from my local Hyundai dealer. Elantra SE with pop equipment package. Basic compact with nothing fancy, but still well equipped. $79/month, 10K miles/year.

doing some rudimentary math, and having a owner coupon, and using my standard plan (pay $1,000 at inception + 35 more payments) I get ~ $170-175 (depending on money factor applied to the $3k cap cost reduction I would roll in).

Now that is a lot of car for not much money. 3 year total cost (before turn in fee) about $7,000, for a car that will have no OOP costs. Can be cheaper than buying a used car when factoring in depreciation and what you have to put into it.
////////////////////////////////////////////////

2017 HYUNDAI ELANTRA SE 4-CYL., Auto, FWD, PS, PB, A/C, Popular Equip. Pkg., Back-up Camera, Android Audio & Apple Car Play, & More. VIN #HH116088. 36 Months Closed End Lease $.20 Per Mile Over 10k Miles Per Year, With $2995 Down At Lease Signing plus tax, tags & first months payment. $0 Security Deposit. MSRP $19,910. LEV $11,348, TOP $2844. $3000 Hyundai Lease cash + $500 Valued Owner Coupon applied

28firefighter

Punch pending. Putting it in wife's name, so pending credit check.

tjc78

@nyccarguy I'd bet they are similar. There will be a better residual on the Pilot but lease cash, etc on the Buick. I'm at 514 on the Enclave with I think either 750 or $1000 down and it was almost 48k. Not an awesome lease, but not terrible either. When I was trolling the MDX board numbers were similar.

@stickguy Same basic lease I got. My sticker was about $1500 higher and I'm at 210 with just first payment down all in.

@28firefighter Good Luck!

Michaell

tjc78 said:

@nyccarguy I'd bet they are similar. There will be a better residual on the Pilot but lease cash, etc on the Buick. I'm at 514 on the Enclave with I think either 750 or $1000 down and it was almost 48k. Not an awesome lease, but not terrible either. When I was trolling the MDX board numbers were similar.

@stickguy Same basic lease I got. My sticker was about $1500 higher and I'm at 210 with just first payment down all in.

@28firefighter Good Luck!

@tjc78 - Pilot residuals are higher, but so is the MF. And, not a lot of discounting on them, either, which hurts lease payments.

@stickguy - and I thought I had car ADD. You jump from beater to off lease luxury to cheap lease Hyundai at the drop of a hat.

@28firefighter - Let's hope everything comes back clean. Are you ditching the Escape as a separate transaction from the BMW lease?

Sandman6472

Change out key fob the 1st of every month. Works like a charm!

The Sandman

28firefighter

Michaell said:

tjc78 said:

@nyccarguy I'd bet they are similar. There will be a better residual on the Pilot but lease cash, etc on the Buick. I'm at 514 on the Enclave with I think either 750 or $1000 down and it was almost 48k. Not an awesome lease, but not terrible either. When I was trolling the MDX board numbers were similar.

@stickguy Same basic lease I got. My sticker was about $1500 higher and I'm at 210 with just first payment down all in.

@28firefighter Good Luck!

@tjc78 - Pilot residuals are higher, but so is the MF. And, not a lot of discounting on them, either, which hurts lease payments.

@stickguy - and I thought I had car ADD. You jump from beater to off lease luxury to cheap lease Hyundai at the drop of a hat.

@28firefighter - Let's hope everything comes back clean. Are you ditching the Escape as a separate transaction from the BMW lease?

We are dealing with it as a separate transaction because the dealer is further away and are delivering the car to us (more on that later). The price is low enough on the X1 that we can either float the few payments or just return it early. We'll probably hang onto it for a couple of months while parents are visiting so they have a car to drive.

stickguy

I think I have issues. For some reason, stuff like this gets me excited. No price yet. That is usually the real determinent of how excited I get. I probably need help.

http://www.subaruofcherryhill.com/used/Volkswagen/2009-Volkswagen-Jetta+Sedan-Cherry+Hill+NJ-ab87ff900a0e0ae8307c0e35bc1a66eb.htm?searchDepth=37:37

of course, I also get excited by these. not too expensive, comfy, utility beater. Throw in one of those screens, and great for dog hauling. Too bad black guts.

http://www.auditurnersville.com/used/Volvo/2008-Volvo-V70-8f825a170a0e0ae8307c0e356582e442.htm

breld

@28firefighter - sounds like everything is working out great for the X1. Good luck! That's a beautiful car - nice that it's working out to get the car you really wanted at a great price!