Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

houdini1

There is about a 6 or 7% difference between MB invoice price and MSRP. Even if they sold every car at MSRP, I don't see how they could cover all their expenses and make a profit, but obviously they are. Makes me wonder how much that invoice price is jacked up. This applies to all mfgs., not just MB.

andres3

tjc78 said:

Without a block heater, those cold starts must be brutal on the engine.

Isn't that what 0W-40 weight motor oil is for? I remember when an unscrupulous former Audi dealership argued about using an incorrect motor oil (going against the manual) because San Diego had a mild "warm" climate.

roadburner

xwesx said:

roadburner said:

I ran the ALCAN Winter Rally back in 2000; the lowest I saw was only -20F at Prudhoe Bay AK. I did learn that 75 mph on snow covered roads was doable with studded winter tires...

Oh, that would be such a blast! I mean, not the 75 mph deal (I do that all the time!), but just participating in the Winter Rally.

When in 2000 was it? We had a week and a half of -45 to -55 temperatures just after 12/25/99 and through New Years. It was pretty intense to have it that cold for that long. The "ice fog" was so thick by the end.... One of those unforgettable memories!

It was in the first and second week of February. I remember following the AK weather starting in December 1999 and thinking, "What have I gotten myself into?" We finished the rally in Anchorage with an ice autocross on Big Lake and the temps were in the high 30s. Go figure.

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

I ran the ALCAN Winter Rally back in 2000; the lowest I saw was only -20F at Prudhoe Bay AK. I did learn that 75 mph on snow covered roads was doable with studded winter tires...

I remember stepping outside in AK one lovely day in February and it was -45F. That actually *hurt* to breathe.

Sandman6472

Liked that Mini, for some strange reason I like Mini Coopers. Maybe it's their smaller size but I dig 'em and would have one if not for the Golf. The wife has to have a sedan, never would drive a minivan even though we had the right amount of small kids at the time for one. She now prefers smaller vehicles and was all set to buy a Kia Forte or Mazda3 until I mentioned to check out the new Audi dealer right near the house. Three weeks later, she buys one for a decent price though had to choose between white/black or black/black. It was in early December and the new '15's just came out. I preferred the silver or charcoal colors but it was what it was. Luckily the neighborhood store with the white/black caved when we were about to buy the other vehicle.
I like hatchbacks, the smaller the better. Am limited in choices and even though I like the new Cruze, not sure I'd be happy with their hatch after a few months. Luckily, I'm staying put with the Golf for the forseeable future unless it gets taken out by some other driver or has some really bad issues after the warranty ends next year. Could also see a cpo'd X1 as a viable alternative down the road!

The Sandman

fintail

I think the profit margins are high on most MBs, The expensive options must have huge margins, and these are all mass-production items made in efficient modern factories, not handmade one-offs made by elves in a Swabian forest. There's definitely room for negotiation, with the ability to still make a profit.

houdini1 said:

There is about a 6 or 7% difference between MB invoice price and MSRP. Even if they sold every car at MSRP, I don't see how they could cover all their expenses and make a profit, but obviously they are. Makes me wonder how much that invoice price is jacked up. This applies to all mfgs., not just MB.

xwesx

tjc78 said:

Without a block heater, those cold starts must be brutal on the engine.

Funny you mention that!

I plugged in the car last night when I arrived home at about 2030 hrs. The plug is on a timer, set to come on at 0600, so no electricity flowing at that time. Unfortunately, ice buildup in the plug had increased to the point that I didn't have a good connection, and I forgot to check this morning.

So, when I hit the auto-start from inside, the car was *very* unhappy about it. It did crank a few times, but not anywhere near fast enough to start. I corrected the problem, but had to give it another hour to warm the block and oil a bit before trying again. This time, it did start (I was afraid the first attempt may have flooded it) reluctantly, but my, oh my, was it slow to move!

I have three heaters on the car: block (freeze plug style, not circulating), oil pan, and transmission pan. I don't bother with battery pads, as I find they tend to nurse an ailing battery along so it can fail on you in the middle of nowhere rather than in your driveway where you aren't at risk of dying! My batteries tend to last upwards (or more than) a decade, so I'm pretty convinced the pads are useless.

It's even a little warmer today, at -46F currently. I have no idea what the temperature is at my house, which is a little higher elevation than the official weather station, but it sure didn't feel any warmer than that there.

Michaell

Looking for a bit of expertise.

A person on the QX60 leasing forum (https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/43191/infiniti/qx60/2017-infiniti-qx60-lease-questions#latest) by the name of methuenbuyer, placed an order for a QX60. He has signed the paperwork but not taken delivery. He discovered that the dealer had marked up the MF, adding $$$'s to the payment.

Dealer is refusing to back out of the deal, saying that IFS has approved the contract and paid for the vehicle. The poster is concerned that he has an account with IFS and if he doesn't make the payments, it will affect his credit.

Any thoughts? Can share here and I'll carry them over, or feel free to post them there yourself.

You may have to read back a few pages to see all of the posts.

ab348

fintail said:

Yep same basic car, just different options and colors like you mention. I think white looks good on this bodystyle, and the interior color also goes well with it. The lighting package is also something I like a lot. I think price is a tad high though - there were quite a few leftover 16s out there in advance of the new style 2017s, and one probably could have found it for little more from a dealer last year, especially later in the spring onwards. I'd want it for a few grand less anyway.

I think MSRP would have been around 60-61K.

I'd do a Mike Brewer "Wheeler Dealers" approach: "$45,000 CASH, right now! Hold out your hand!"

28firefighter

Michaell said:

Looking for a bit of expertise.

A person on the QX60 leasing forum (https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/43191/infiniti/qx60/2017-infiniti-qx60-lease-questions#latest) by the name of methuenbuyer, placed an order for a QX60. He has signed the paperwork but not taken delivery. He discovered that the dealer had marked up the MF, adding $$$'s to the payment.

Dealer is refusing to back out of the deal, saying that IFS has approved the contract and paid for the vehicle. The poster is concerned that he has an account with IFS and if he doesn't make the payments, it will affect his credit.

Any thoughts? Can share here and I'll carry them over, or feel free to post them there yourself.

You may have to read back a few pages to see all of the posts.

I posted over there. Trying to understand on what planet a dealership would write a lease on a car that they didn't have in their possession yet - what if someone drove it over a cliff in transit?

Sounds like they had him sign a deal sheet and give a deposit and are making it sound as though he can't back out now. But if he called IFS that is a different story.

roadburner

Did the paperwork he signed show the increased payment? If so he may have a problem

cdnpinhead

xwesx said:

I have three heaters on the car: block (freeze plug style, not circulating), oil pan, and transmission pan.

I was driving an MGB back in the cold winter of '72 in Edmonton, and I put a "Tempro" (brand, I think) heater in the car which went into the heater hose loop. The net result was that hot water was circulated through the engine block and the heater -- great system. With the later Volvo & 240Z I went with the conventional freeze plug block heater.

28firefighter

Man, @michaell - that Infiniti situation is an absolute train wreck. How do people get themselves into these situations?

Michaell

28firefighter said:

Man, @michaell - that Infiniti situation is an absolute train wreck. How do people get themselves into these situations?

No idea ... just trying to help out. Dealer seems to be playing hardball, and I'm surprised they are taking this tack, given all the negative publicity that could come out of it.

28firefighter

Oh I know - just seems like there were red flags throughout the whole process that he should have just walked away without agreeing on a deal.

stickguy

have not gone over, but the dealer is trying to force him to take delivery, on a car they don't have? yeah, what could go wrong there.

If they don't have the car, they don't have a deal I thought. Who cares about IFS? Call them, tell them the dealer lied, you have not taken the car, and they either need to cancel anything they were setting up and refund deposit or taking legal action. Hey, it might work.

or, take your car, make the higher payment, and pay better attention next time before you sign financial documents. Them slam the hell out of the dealer on every forum you can find, including sending letters to Infiniti corporate.

Michaell

28firefighter said:

Oh I know - just seems like there were red flags throughout the whole process that he should have just walked away without agreeing on a deal.

OK, I missed the part about the VIN on the contract (and the monthly statement) being different from the car the OP wants to take delivery of. That complicates things to the n'th degree.

I'm really surprised that IFS and Infiniti customer care are washing their hands of this.

28firefighter

No - the whole situation is that the dealer had him sign (and he did sign) a lease contract for a DIFFERENT vehicle and VIN than the one he ultimately would take - my guess is to get some kind of end of year spiff since he signed on 1/2. They said they would "fix" the VIN after he got his correct vehicle.

The IFS account shows that its the incorrect vehicle - IFS doesn't care because as far as they're concerned he has the vehicle they have on record.

It sounds like fraud, if every word the OP is stating is true. I can only assume if it is true that the GM is refusing to unwind it because it would impact the EOY incentives they received from Infiniti.

andres3

Michaell said:

28firefighter said:

Oh I know - just seems like there were red flags throughout the whole process that he should have just walked away without agreeing on a deal.

OK, I missed the part about the VIN on the contract (and the monthly statement) being different from the car the OP wants to take delivery of. That complicates things to the n'th degree.

I'm really surprised that IFS and Infiniti customer care are washing their hands of this.

Sounds like a timeshare deal now!

Sandman6472

Got a dumb question here. On my iPad, how come I can't find the Forums page anywhere? What am I doing wrong??? No kids at home any longer to show dad the way!!

The Sandman

tifighter

Here is a CL listing that is a trip down memory lane. Where's the burgundy velour option on a new Miata?

Mr_Shiftright

Go to edmunds.com

Then click up top on "research"

Then scroll down the column marked "Tips and Advice".

roadburner

The Infinity dealer should be scared of repercussions from on high; BMWNA would absolutely roast a center they caught playing that game.

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

Go to edmunds.com

Then click up top on "research"

Then scroll down the column marked "Tips and Advice".

Hah! That's not hidden or anything!

I just type "forums.edmunds.com" when I log in from a new browser or device.

stickguy

just read the lease thread. Really sounds like the dealer played way beyond fast and loose with the rules, and is blustering now trying to CYA. I would hammer IFS and Infiniti corporate with letters on this. start cases, file complaints, threaten legal action.

How the hell can a dealer get paid for a car they did not deliver? and if they were planning to, why use a bogus VIN instead of the real one?

this is weird. Worse than when the Acura dealer sold me one car (all the paperwork) but delivered me a different one by mistake.

xwesx

Curiosity: Which one had the higher numbers? The one on paper, or the one in hand?

suydam

sandman_6472 said:

Got a dumb question here. On my iPad, how come I can't find the Forums page anywhere? What am I doing wrong??? No kids at home any longer to show dad the way!!

The Sandman

They don't make it easy for new folks to find them.

Sandman6472

X, your way worked! The other way...nada. Thanks!!

The Sandman

Michaell

xwesx said:

Curiosity: Which one had the higher numbers? The one on paper, or the one in hand?

Not specifically stated, but it's likely they had the same MSRP and selling price.

Not too many options on an Infiniti - more packages, than anything.

I appreciate you all jumping in and trying to help. I agree that the dealer is being stubborn because of the VIN-switching and not wanting to get caught.

Mr_Shiftright

sandman_6472 said:

X, your way worked! The other way...nada. Thanks!!

The Sandman

I just tried it on my iPad--it worked there.

iluvmysephia1

I've been there before, sandman. Eventually go to forums and discussions and select one from the list. Once you're in one, go to the bottom and select 'General.' Then the list comes up of all of these same discussions. Sounds obnoxious ta do, in a way, because it pretty much is. 

Here's a tip, though. Once in to the list of familiar threads, go to the top of your browser and pull down menu Favorites+Add to Favorites. Bingo - you'll make things easier for the next time. Hope it goes well in your searching.

tbirdmarco

@28firefighter congrads on the new B M W x1

28firefighter

Marcothecarguy1986 said:

@28firefighter congrads on the new B M W x1

Thanks!

tbirdmarco

is everyone watching the baret Jakson classic car auctions have bin on since Tuesday night on till sunday have bin watching them and loving it like I do every year watch them all the other ones in other citys to. nothing like an old car.

qbrozen

Yup. I watch and dream.

Sandman6472

Went with the Bridgestone run flats after all, so far...so good. Got some discounts from my friend which helped with the final price. Decided to noy have it aligned again since it was just done in December and the steering wheel was dead on straight, the way I like it. Golf tracked straight and true on the way home so will keep an eye on the tread. Since I have the 3 year policy, can get it aligned anytime I want within the time period.
Can't wait till get it out in the rain and see how they perform in the wet. Supposedly, these sneakers have a good reputation for wet driving conditions so we shall see. Luckily, they have that 30 day exchange policy and give free road hazard for the first year.

The Sandman

xwesx

sandman_6472 said:

Can't wait till get it out in the rain and see how they perform in the wet. Supposedly, these sneakers have a good reputation for wet driving conditions so we shall see. Luckily, they have that 30 day exchange policy and give free road hazard for the first year.

Oh, well, there you have it! New forecast: Sunny for the next thirty days!

laurasdada

Finally have my XF back. Quite happy! Happy to be out of the LR Discovery which just did not feel like a premium vehicle to me. But, again, I have a slight SUV prejudice. A lot of cheap feeling plastic, buzzy engine, wind noise. Felt most road irregularities, much understeer. But, I did use it to move some furniture. And, certainly easier to get in and out of. Almost felt alien lowering myself back into the XF. But, once in, ahhhh.

New water pump (system flush); steering column and a surprise O2 sensor recall and fix. So, some heavy warranty work there. So far, all seems well; all steering wheel controls working. And, most importantly, heated wheel is heating! Washed and vacuumed. One year of warranty on the car to go, but I really do love this car!

28firefighter

laurasdada said:

Finally have my XF back. Quite happy! Happy to be out of the LR Discovery which just did not feel like a premium vehicle to me. But, again, I have a slight SUV prejudice. A lot of cheap feeling plastic, buzzy engine, wind noise. Felt most road irregularities, much understeer. But, I did use it to move some furniture. And, certainly easier to get in and out of. Almost felt alien lowering myself back into the XF. But, once in, ahhhh.

New water pump (system flush); steering column and a surprise O2 sensor recall and fix. So, some heavy warranty work there. So far, all seems well; all steering wheel controls working. And, most importantly, heated wheel is heating! Washed and vacuumed. One year of warranty on the car to go, but I really do love this car!

Out of curiosity, did they tell you how much all of this work would have been had you not had the warranty?

Michaell

Roll call!

Let's everybody check in with their current fleet.

But, instead of telling us the make and model, simply provide the name of the dealership where it was purchased / leased.

I'll start us off:

Ralph Schomp MINI
McDonald VW
Groove Subaru

sda

Hendrick Honda, Charlotte: Pilot
Scott Clark Honda, Charlotte: Accord

rayainsw

CarMax of Norcross, GA [ was a Dodge dealer 2 years ago - now just used cars... ]
One of the best buying experiences I have had - in 50 years. ]

28firefighter

Evergreen Ford - Issaquah, WA
Volkswagen of Olympia - Olympia, WA
Kuni BMW - Beaverton, OR

Michaell

28firefighter said:

Evergreen Ford - Issaquah, WA
Volkswagen of Olympia - Olympia, WA
Kuni BMW - Beaverton, OR

There is a Kuni Lexus and a Kuni Honda here in Denver ... wonder if they're related?

nyccarguy

Rye Subaru - Rye, NY
Greenwich Honda - Greenwich, CT
Honda of Nanuet - Nanuet, NY

28firefighter

Michaell said:

28firefighter said:

Evergreen Ford - Issaquah, WA
Volkswagen of Olympia - Olympia, WA
Kuni BMW - Beaverton, OR

There is a Kuni Lexus and a Kuni Honda here in Denver ... wonder if they're related?

They are - its all one big automotive group, and actually I want to say that Kuni just acquired an automotive group with a midwest and east coast presence as well...

EDIT: I had it backwards. Holman Automotive group acquired Kuni.

tifighter

Volvo of Seattle
Car Pros Kia / Tacoma

au1994

United BMW Roswell for the 335i and Nalley BMW in Decatur for the X6

stickguy

Ramsey Acura (will never set foot in that place again)
Hamilton VW (nice small scale dealer)
Faulkner Hyundai (Philly) - loved them!

The Acura dealer has another flaw that bugs me. It is set on a big hill, so almost no flat places to park. Terrible set-up for a dealership.

qbrozen

I'm supposed to remember the dealers? yikes.

Well, let's see ... the Infiniti was Davis Hyundai in Trenton; van was Route 1 Chrysler in Lawrenceville; Rover was Ramsey Volvo, Ramsey; and S70 was an old couple in Forked River.

FYI, I had to look 2 of those up online.