Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

au1994

28firefighter said:

@28firefighter - surprised to hear you report a lot of road noise in the Accord. That was always an Accord bugbear but I had read the previous generation made great strides in quieting it. Odd it would be back here with the new generation.

It's all relative, and the roads out here are downright awful. I should probably add, the MB is noisy too, just less so.

Hey what became of the coolant issue on the X1. Sorry if I missed it earlier.

28firefighter

Sorry, thought I updated - nothing, so far. Smell has subsided, engine temp has remained stable and the coolant level is stable. There are also no leaks that I can see in the engine compartment or on the floor of the garage. Short answer is, I have no idea!

au1994

28firefighter said:

Sorry, thought I updated - nothing, so far. Smell has subsided, engine temp has remained stable and the coolant level is stable. There are also no leaks that I can see in the engine compartment or on the floor of the garage. Short answer is, I have no idea!

Well...I don’t know if that’s good or bad qq

28firefighter

Me either. My experience with BMW is these events generally will show themselves out in fairly short order. I'm checking it daily though, so we'll see.

Mr_Shiftright

I would pressure test the cooling system just to be on the safe side. Leaks can be sneaky.

stickguy

I bet the accord issue is the low profile tires on it.

Also, if you drive the 1.5 stick the 2.0 should feel the same. Just a little quicker.

nyccarguy

28firefighter said:

We had a nice day here yesterday and I worked east coast hours, so was able to leave work a bit early to run some errands. Stopped by the local Honda dealer and took a look at the Accord Sport 2.0T. I borrowed a friend's car this weekend (1997 Mazda) and got comfortable again, but alas the only Sport 6spd they had in stock was the smaller 1.5T. Ended up driving the 10 speed automatic in the 2.0T just to see if I liked it.

From an appearance perspective, this isn't like the Accord of old. Reminds me a bit of my CC or, as others have mentioned, the A5 Sportback. It is sleek looking, but definitely bigger than what I have been driving of late. For comparison, my GTI was 168" long, the C300 is 185" and this thing checks in at 192". I liked the aggressive wheels and the LED headlights - both a major plus. I generally don't care about sunroofs, but Sam gets a kick out of seeing the sky go by, so I've been using it a lot in both cars, so the fact this has one is nice.

The interior is really well appointed and optioned at the Sport- level trim. The only thing it was missing that would have been nice is memory seats, but beyond that, it is exactly how I would option a car. The heated cloth seats were supportive and I found a comfortable driving position really quickly. Also a major plus, the infotainment now has actual knobs and comes equipped with Apple CarPlay. They also did away with the right-side mirror camera in favor of traditional blind spot monitoring. Other safety nannies on this car were lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control, speed sign reading (appears in the instrument cluster), collision avoidance, and a backup camera. No park-assist at this trim level.

The driving experience was interesting. I really liked the engine, but the 10 speed auto just felt like it was shifting every 5 seconds when I didn't need it to be, and thinking too hard about downshifting when I needed it. When I was really punching it though, it felt like there was plenty of power to be fun, it revved happily and never felt as if it was working too hard. Steering feel was tight and sporty and cornering was way better than I expected. It is no BMW/Audi/VW GTI/Golf R/Civic Type R, but still pretty fun. I suspect in the manual transmission it would be about perfect. Road noise was pretty loud - more than I had hoped or expected. EDIT: The more I'm thinking about this, the more I realize it may have just been the test drive roads. It's probably no worse than the MB and definitely no worse than the GTI which operated at a dull roar on the Seattle's rough roads.

My takeaway is that this is a lot of car for the money. I need to drive the 6spd 2.0T to know for sure if I would be happy with it for the long haul. And by long haul, of course, I mean 18-24 months. There also aren't really any "deals" on it right now - lease or finance, which I find fascinating because despite the great reviews, there hasn't been a ton of uptake.

No Civic Si test drive?

stickguy

Actually, if I decided on a stick, would almost certainly do the Si instead of the accord sport.

28firefighter

@nyccarguy - they only had one that had just come off the truck and wasn't prepped yet. I sat in it, but no drive.

roadburner

28firefighter said:

Sorry, thought I updated - nothing, so far. Smell has subsided, engine temp has remained stable and the coolant level is stable. There are also no leaks that I can see in the engine compartment or on the floor of the garage. Short answer is, I have no idea!

Aren't you able to use the button on the end of the turn signal stalk to cycle through various display modes? One of them is engine temperature. IIRC...

28firefighter

You're kidding. I looked everywhere in the owners manual and couldn't find that. Will check it tonight when my wife gets home.

Thanks, @roadburner. You know if this attorney thing doesn't work out, you could work for a BMW dealer. Oh wait....

fintail

Yep, IIRC these were peformance tires, quite low profile for the time (~2005). The car handled very well, but the ride was painful coming from an old S-Class, and going to the E55 felt like being in a 1970s Caddy in terms of smoothness.

ab348 said:

Funny you mention the tires. I just got the snows taken off the ATS this morning and the OE Bridgestone summer-only "performance" tires put back on. Driving home I noticed the same tramlining effect which was not there for the last several months with the Michelins. I assume yours were performance tires also. Maybe that is a characteristic of the things? I must admit aside from that the handling is noticeably sharper, so maybe that is the trade-off.

roadburner

28firefighter said:

You're kidding. I looked everywhere in the owners manual and couldn't find that. Will check it tonight when my wife gets home.

Thanks, @roadburner. You know if this attorney thing doesn't work out, you could work for a BMW dealer. Oh wait....

I believe that it first says "TEMP OK" then switches to a virtual gauge. At least you have a gauge, my M235i has nothing...

breld

andres3 said:

breld said:

No surprise, but I think the longest I've owned a car is about 5 years. That was my 1993 Prelude coming out of college.

What's the shortest you've owned a car? Inquiring minds want to know.

Just looked at my list - that would be the Beetle Convertible my wife had for 57 days last year.

Michaell

breld said:

andres3 said:

breld said:

No surprise, but I think the longest I've owned a car is about 5 years. That was my 1993 Prelude coming out of college.

What's the shortest you've owned a car? Inquiring minds want to know.

Just looked at my list - that would be the Beetle Convertible my wife had for 57 days last year.

I would have sworn it was the GLC you brought back from Texas.

suydam

For me shortest was my recent 2013 Honda Accord —3 Years. Loved the car but it was just too big for our needs. Sold when me moved across country and replaced with the smaller Volt.

tifighter

Just short of six months on the recent Toyota 86. So I'll be entering the window in July, I guess.

28firefighter

The MB is probably going to be in the 4-6 month range....ugh.

pensfan83

My shortest time with a vehicle is around 18 months and it was only that short because I was in an accident that totaled the car.

Michaell

I think the shortest we've kept a car is 22 months - 1997 Ford Escort LX that was leased for 24 months but got traded in early for an Expedition.

stickguy

tomorrow will be exactly 2 months until the Jetta has to go back. Still deciding if we might want to keep it for an extra month. Daughter starts work mid-July, but spends the first 2 weeks up in Jersey City for training (staying at a hotel), so probably better to have the old car stashed there. Plus I won't have any access to it for the 2 week period. definitely won't be getting a replacement before that I don't think.

so, we have the option of just paying 1 extra month payment and keeping it. could actually do it for up to 6 months, but if we did keep past 7/31, I would have to pay for another years registration. Which I have no desire to do!

will decide once she gets home. I suppose can just bite the bullet and get a new one right away. Or just turn the Elantra over to her, but if we do, I likely keep the Jetta the extra month anyway.

andres3

nyccarguy said:

Done!

How far is the CR testing facility from you?

andres3

28firefighter said:

We had a nice day here yesterday and I worked east coast hours, so was able to leave work a bit early to run some errands. Stopped by the local Honda dealer and took a look at the Accord Sport 2.0T. I borrowed a friend's car this weekend (1997 Mazda) and got comfortable again, but alas the only Sport 6spd they had in stock was the smaller 1.5T. Ended up driving the 10 speed automatic in the 2.0T just to see if I liked it.

From an appearance perspective, this isn't like the Accord of old. Reminds me a bit of my CC or, as others have mentioned, the A5 Sportback. It is sleek looking, but definitely bigger than what I have been driving of late. For comparison, my GTI was 168" long, the C300 is 185" and this thing checks in at 192". I liked the aggressive wheels and the LED headlights - both a major plus. I generally don't care about sunroofs, but Sam gets a kick out of seeing the sky go by, so I've been using it a lot in both cars, so the fact this has one is nice.

The interior is really well appointed and optioned at the Sport- level trim. The only thing it was missing that would have been nice is memory seats, but beyond that, it is exactly how I would option a car. The heated cloth seats were supportive and I found a comfortable driving position really quickly. Also a major plus, the infotainment now has actual knobs and comes equipped with Apple CarPlay. They also did away with the right-side mirror camera in favor of traditional blind spot monitoring. Other safety nannies on this car were lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control, speed sign reading (appears in the instrument cluster), collision avoidance, and a backup camera. No park-assist at this trim level.

The driving experience was interesting. I really liked the engine, but the 10 speed auto just felt like it was shifting every 5 seconds when I didn't need it to be, and thinking too hard about downshifting when I needed it. When I was really punching it though, it felt like there was plenty of power to be fun, it revved happily and never felt as if it was working too hard. Steering feel was tight and sporty and cornering was way better than I expected. It is no BMW/Audi/VW GTI/Golf R/Civic Type R, but still pretty fun. I suspect in the manual transmission it would be about perfect. Road noise was pretty loud - more than I had hoped or expected. EDIT: The more I'm thinking about this, the more I realize it may have just been the test drive roads. It's probably no worse than the MB and definitely no worse than the GTI which operated at a dull roar on the Seattle's rough roads.

My takeaway is that this is a lot of car for the money. I need to drive the 6spd 2.0T to know for sure if I would be happy with it for the long haul. And by long haul, of course, I mean 18-24 months. There also aren't really any "deals" on it right now - lease or finance, which I find fascinating because despite the great reviews, there hasn't been a ton of uptake.

Nice review. A lot of similarities with my view points. I think the 10-speed is a weakness, though I imagine it might be tamable and trainable as the computer by now should be a learning computer like the Terminator in T2.

Handling is a strength for its class. Even on the Low Rolling Resistance (EX-L model) tires, it performed admirably. I like the engine, but I have a feeling I liked the Stinger's engine more. Of course, there was $10,000 difference between the two I test drove. I also like RWD more than FWD. I haven't driven an AWD Stinger yet.

andres3

pensfan83 said:

My shortest time with a vehicle is around 18 months and it was only that short because I was in an accident that totaled the car.

I think TDI windfall purchases, and "totals" due to a wreck both earn an asterisk in your personal record books. Our 2005 Civic EX Sedan only lasted 2 years, because someone totaled it by crashing into it. It didn't have a single warranty visit.

My '03 Accord LX V6 sold after 50 good months, but I suppose my 3-year lease on the Kia will beat that. I think a lease is sort of an asterisk too, or maybe its own category.

andres3

stickguy said:

I bet the accord issue is the low profile tires on it.

Also, if you drive the 1.5 stick the 2.0 should feel the same. Just a little quicker.

Should be a lot quicker. That being said, I've found German horses to be faster and quicker than Japanese horses (and 0-60 times bare that out in A4 vs. Accord figures despite equivalent HP ratings and very close weights.). Probably mostly due to the superior DCT/DSG vs. 10-speed slush box.

andres3

fintail said:

Yep, IIRC these were peformance tires, quite low profile for the time (~2005). The car handled very well, but the ride was painful coming from an old S-Class, and going to the E55 felt like being in a 1970s Caddy in terms of smoothness.

ab348 said:

Funny you mention the tires. I just got the snows taken off the ATS this morning and the OE Bridgestone summer-only "performance" tires put back on. Driving home I noticed the same tramlining effect which was not there for the last several months with the Michelins. I assume yours were performance tires also. Maybe that is a characteristic of the things? I must admit aside from that the handling is noticeably sharper, so maybe that is the trade-off.

I think ride softness is all relative. After riding around in KW Variant 2 Coil-overs on an '06 A3 for a few years, almost anything seems soft when stock.

After decades in a Toyota/Lexus product, almost everything seems hard and harsh to my father.

stickguy

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

I bet the accord issue is the low profile tires on it.

Also, if you drive the 1.5 stick the 2.0 should feel the same. Just a little quicker.

Should be a lot quicker. That being said, I've found German horses to be faster and quicker than Japanese horses (and 0-60 times bare that out in A4 vs. Accord figures despite equivalent HP ratings and very close weights.). Probably mostly due to the superior DCT/DSG vs. 10-speed slush box.

actually MT just did a comparison this month of mainstream vs. budget luxury models. Compared the Accord to an A4. The Accord spanked it in acceleration. Easily.

tjc78

Shortest for me was the 98 Olds 88. That lemon lasted about 9 months before I dumped it.

stickguy

actually, my Nissan PU did not make it that long. either 11 months or 23. If I could remember when we bought our first single family house I would know! Traded that for our 626 when our son was born. No car seat in those jump seats.

28firefighter

stickguy said:

I bet the accord issue is the low profile tires on it. Also, if you drive the 1.5 stick the 2.0 should feel the same. Just a little quicker.

Should be a lot quicker. That being said, I've found German horses to be faster and quicker than Japanese horses (and 0-60 times bare that out in A4 vs. Accord figures despite equivalent HP ratings and very close weights.). Probably mostly due to the superior DCT/DSG vs. 10-speed slush box.

actually MT just did a comparison this month of mainstream vs. budget luxury models. Compared the Accord to an A4. The Accord spanked it in acceleration. Easily.

Interesting. I should check that out. 

andres3

stickguy said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

I bet the accord issue is the low profile tires on it.

Also, if you drive the 1.5 stick the 2.0 should feel the same. Just a little quicker.

Should be a lot quicker. That being said, I've found German horses to be faster and quicker than Japanese horses (and 0-60 times bare that out in A4 vs. Accord figures despite equivalent HP ratings and very close weights.). Probably mostly due to the superior DCT/DSG vs. 10-speed slush box.

actually MT just did a comparison this month of mainstream vs. budget luxury models. Compared the Accord to an A4. The Accord spanked it in acceleration. Easily.

I believe that was the A4 Ultra FWD model? That model has a detuned engine that gets much better fuel economy than the Accord (or quattro A4), so it makes sense it would lose an acceleration battle.

I'm talking 252 to 252 HP, which is the A4 quattro.

qbrozen

andres3 said:

My shortest time with a vehicle is around 18 months and it was only that short because I was in an accident that totaled the car.

I think TDI windfall purchases, and "totals" due to a wreck both earn an asterisk in your personal record books. Our 2005 Civic EX Sedan only lasted 2 years, because someone totaled it by crashing into it. It didn't have a single warranty visit. My '03 Accord LX V6 sold after 50 good months, but I suppose my 3-year lease on the Kia will beat that. I think a lease is sort of an asterisk too, or maybe its own category.

So the lease asterisk is because some of us are forced to hold a leased vehicle far longer than we would have if it was a purchase, right? ;b

stickguy

well, then you are talking $10k+ difference in price. The whole point was a fair fight price wise.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

My shortest time with a vehicle is around 18 months and it was only that short because I was in an accident that totaled the car.

I think TDI windfall purchases, and "totals" due to a wreck both earn an asterisk in your personal record books. Our 2005 Civic EX Sedan only lasted 2 years, because someone totaled it by crashing into it. It didn't have a single warranty visit. My '03 Accord LX V6 sold after 50 good months, but I suppose my 3-year lease on the Kia will beat that. I think a lease is sort of an asterisk too, or maybe its own category.

So the lease asterisk is because some of us are forced to hold a leased vehicle far longer than we would have if it was a purchase, right? ;b

Exactly.  Most of us here use a leased car as a placeholder & guarantees us countdown until the next Punch.

nyccarguy

andres3 said:

Done!

How far is the CR testing facility from you?

Let me check.  It’s a little more than an hour & a half from me.

benjaminh

28firefighter said:

We had a nice day here yesterday and I worked east coast hours, so was able to leave work a bit early to run some errands. Stopped by the local Honda dealer and took a look at the Accord Sport 2.0T. I borrowed a friend's car this weekend (1997 Mazda) and got comfortable again, but alas the only Sport 6spd they had in stock was the smaller 1.5T. Ended up driving the 10 speed automatic in the 2.0T just to see if I liked it.

From an appearance perspective, this isn't like the Accord of old. Reminds me a bit of my CC or, as others have mentioned, the A5 Sportback. It is sleek looking, but definitely bigger than what I have been driving of late. For comparison, my GTI was 168" long, the C300 is 185" and this thing checks in at 192". I liked the aggressive wheels and the LED headlights - both a major plus. I generally don't care about sunroofs, but Sam gets a kick out of seeing the sky go by, so I've been using it a lot in both cars, so the fact this has one is nice.

The interior is really well appointed and optioned at the Sport- level trim. The only thing it was missing that would have been nice is memory seats, but beyond that, it is exactly how I would option a car. The heated cloth seats were supportive and I found a comfortable driving position really quickly. Also a major plus, the infotainment now has actual knobs and comes equipped with Apple CarPlay. They also did away with the right-side mirror camera in favor of traditional blind spot monitoring. Other safety nannies on this car were lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control, speed sign reading (appears in the instrument cluster), collision avoidance, and a backup camera. No park-assist at this trim level.

The driving experience was interesting. I really liked the engine, but the 10 speed auto just felt like it was shifting every 5 seconds when I didn't need it to be, and thinking too hard about downshifting when I needed it. When I was really punching it though, it felt like there was plenty of power to be fun, it revved happily and never felt as if it was working too hard. Steering feel was tight and sporty and cornering was way better than I expected. It is no BMW/Audi/VW GTI/Golf R/Civic Type R, but still pretty fun. I suspect in the manual transmission it would be about perfect. Road noise was pretty loud - more than I had hoped or expected. EDIT: The more I'm thinking about this, the more I realize it may have just been the test drive roads. It's probably no worse than the MB and definitely no worse than the GTI which operated at a dull roar on the Seattle's rough roads.

My takeaway is that this is a lot of car for the money. I need to drive the 6spd 2.0T to know for sure if I would be happy with it for the long haul. And by long haul, of course, I mean 18-24 months. There also aren't really any "deals" on it right now - lease or finance, which I find fascinating because despite the great reviews, there hasn't been a ton of uptake.

Nice review of the new Accord. Thanks.

When I test drove the 2018 Accord Hybrid EXL a couple of days ago, I think it was the quietest car I've ever driven in my life.

The 2.0 turbo Sport model in the Accord, as you say, is going to be noisier for multiple reasons—the "Type R" turbo engine, the huge tires, and also the so-called "Active Noise Cancellation" esp. when you put it into "Sport" mode. Like VW, Honda has realized that people who buy the "GTI" or "Sport" models want to hear their engines, esp. if they put it in Sport mode. And so, both Honda and VW "play" engine noise into the cabin so that the driver "feels extra sporty"! I don't like this idea, but there it is. VW uses a "recording" of a nice engine sound that it plays in the cabin. Last I heard, Honda uses the actual engine sound, but then plays it in the cabin for you to hear.

In other words, the Accord Sport model esp. in "Sport" mode is going to be noisy by design.

28firefighter

benjaminh said:

We had a nice day here yesterday and I worked east coast hours, so was able to leave work a bit early to run some errands. Stopped by the local Honda dealer and took a look at the Accord Sport 2.0T. I borrowed a friend's car this weekend (1997 Mazda) and got comfortable again, but alas the only Sport 6spd they had in stock was the smaller 1.5T. Ended up driving the 10 speed automatic in the 2.0T just to see if I liked it. From an appearance perspective, this isn't like the Accord of old. Reminds me a bit of my CC or, as others have mentioned, the A5 Sportback. It is sleek looking, but definitely bigger than what I have been driving of late. For comparison, my GTI was 168" long, the C300 is 185" and this thing checks in at 192". I liked the aggressive wheels and the LED headlights - both a major plus. I generally don't care about sunroofs, but Sam gets a kick out of seeing the sky go by, so I've been using it a lot in both cars, so the fact this has one is nice. The interior is really well appointed and optioned at the Sport- level trim. The only thing it was missing that would have been nice is memory seats, but beyond that, it is exactly how I would option a car. The heated cloth seats were supportive and I found a comfortable driving position really quickly. Also a major plus, the infotainment now has actual knobs and comes equipped with Apple CarPlay. They also did away with the right-side mirror camera in favor of traditional blind spot monitoring. Other safety nannies on this car were lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control, speed sign reading (appears in the instrument cluster), collision avoidance, and a backup camera. No park-assist at this trim level. The driving experience was interesting. I really liked the engine, but the 10 speed auto just felt like it was shifting every 5 seconds when I didn't need it to be, and thinking too hard about downshifting when I needed it. When I was really punching it though, it felt like there was plenty of power to be fun, it revved happily and never felt as if it was working too hard. Steering feel was tight and sporty and cornering was way better than I expected. It is no BMW/Audi/VW GTI/Golf R/Civic Type R, but still pretty fun. I suspect in the manual transmission it would be about perfect. Road noise was pretty loud - more than I had hoped or expected. EDIT: The more I'm thinking about this, the more I realize it may have just been the test drive roads. It's probably no worse than the MB and definitely no worse than the GTI which operated at a dull roar on the Seattle's rough roads. My takeaway is that this is a lot of car for the money. I need to drive the 6spd 2.0T to know for sure if I would be happy with it for the long haul. And by long haul, of course, I mean 18-24 months. There also aren't really any "deals" on it right now - lease or finance, which I find fascinating because despite the great reviews, there hasn't been a ton of uptake.

Nice review of the new Accord. Thanks. When I test drove the 2018 Accord Hybrid EXL a couple of days ago, I think it was the quietest car I've ever driven in my life. The 2.0 turbo Sport model in the Accord, as you say, is going to be noisier for multiple reasons—the "Type R" turbo engine, the huge tires, and also the so-called "Active Noise Cancellation" esp. when you put it into "Sport" mode. Like VW, Honda has realized that people who buy the "GTI" or "Sport" models want to hear their engines, esp. if they put it in Sport mode. And so, both Honda and VW "play" engine noise into the cabin so that the driver "feels extra sporty"! I don't like this idea, but there it is. VW uses a "recording" of a nice engine sound that it plays in the cabin. Last I heard, Honda uses the actual engine sound, but then plays it in the cabin for you to hear. In other words, the Accord Sport model esp. in "Sport" mode is going to be noisy by design.

Thanks for this! I had a suspicion that might be happening but when I asked, they said it wasn’t. The engine noise wasn’t displeasing or anything. Certainly makes sense now. 

PF_Flyer

Do you own a 2017 or 2018 Ford Edge? If so, a journalist would like to speak to you about your experience with the vehicle, particularly if you have children. If you're interested, please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com no later than Monday, May 7, 2018. Thank you!

Mr_Shiftright

@roadburner -- asking for a friend (no really)...he has a 2007 BMW Z 4M with $18,000 in Dinan mods--with all receipts from Dinan-approved tuners.

He's wondering if a car like that pulls a premium over a stock but equally very nice Z4 M for that year?

I told him that I suspected he might pull very high book but not to expect some huge percentage as an add-on to the car's value. But I also told him that was just a guess, and I'd ask around.

So, I'm askin'

kyfdx

Is it a coupe or convertible?

The coupes are hot.... not so much for the droptop.

I bet the Dinan stuff is worth almost nothing in the resale market

stickguy

I saw a Z4M coupe last weekend. I liked it. snazzy.

roadburner

I agree with kyfdx- the mods are worth little.

kyfdx

I missed my chance at a few examples in the low '$20Ks, a few years back... Now, prices have moved back up, except for ratty units.

Really, really cool.... but, not much of a winter sled, with the air dam about 3" off the ground.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah it's a coupe--one of those rare instances where the coupe outsells the convertible by a long shot. However, I think all the premium is in the coupe body--I don't think you'd get much extra for all the Dinan mods. If anything, purists wouldn't like it, although I think a lot of those mods are necessary on that car.

qbrozen

Some enthusiasts are real suckers. Post it on the bimmer boards and Roundel and I would not be surprised if he could get a few grand more than a stock one.

Mr_Shiftright

I always tell people that if the mods are VERY tasteful, and you have documentation, you might add 15% to the 'right person'.

corvette

It might do well on BaT. 

28firefighter

corvette said:

It might do well on BaT. 

Seconded 

Mr_Shiftright

Depends on the price point with BAT. 

nyccarguy

Engine noise?  My Prelude’s 2.2L DOHC VTEC 4cyl hums along at 4,000 RPM at 80 mph.  I LOVE engine noise!