Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

tbirdmarco

Benjaman. Congrads on the new ride    Good luck 

benjaminh

tbirdmarco said:

Benjaman. Congrads on the new ride    Good luck 

Thanks tbirdmarco and everyone else for the congrats on my new leased TLX. For this week I'll be missing it, because I'm in Seattle visiting my elderly parents. The TLX is safe and sound in our one-car garage while my wife's new CR-V is out on the street. She herself suggested it, since we own (with a loan) the CR-V.

I had my 2016 Accord a mere 23 months, but ended up driving it 27k miles. 27,000/23 means that I drove an average of 1174 miles a month. My guess is I'll be driving somewhere around that level for the next three years, and if so 1174 x the 36 months of my lease means that the new TLX might have c. 42,000 miles by the end of the lease.

Since it's a 12k a year lease, or 36k over three years, should I be worried?

Something my salesguy told me makes me think it'll be ok. He said, and I assume he knew what he was talking about, that if you lease another Acura (or Honda even) that they will waive the extra miles up to 7500. That seems to mean that the real mile limit on the lease is actually 43,500, which seems impressive.

Another option that's a real possibility is that in 3 years we just buy the TLX. The residual value on the TLX was only something like $18,300. Since we always do our maintenance by the book, even if it has c. 42k miles I doubt I could find a nicer and better performing car for that kind of money. Is Acura willing to finance your vehicle if you just decide to buy it out at the end of the lease? Or I guess I could just get a used car loan through my bank.

Anyway, with either of those options—lease another Acura or Honda, or buy out the car—it seems like I'm going to be ok when it comes to miles on the car.

And the third option is somewhat painful but doable—just pay the money for the extra miles. I think it's 20 cents per extra mile, which for c. 6000 miles means $1200 bucks. Ouch. But ok.

benjaminh

Sometimes we give nicknames for our cars, but so far not coming up with one for the silver TLX. Silver shark? Anyone think of any possibilities from that pic I posted a few pages back?

sda

Mileage overage is what got us in trouble with our last lease on an '06 Pilot. My wife often works a contract job in IT and her work location varies based upon assignment. When we leased it we easily met the 1k a month, then her location changed and boom, it was 2k a month. We turned it in with 20k over the allotted mileage. Bad mistake. We ended up buying an '09 Civic EX 4dr in May '09--when gas was approaching $4/gal. Wife said she wanted something that got 30 mpg and desired a 5speed. Couldn't find a 5sp and ended up with an automatic. The dealer gave a handsome discount on the Civic and rolled some of the penalty mileage penalty $$ into the deal. But, no smoke and mirrors, it cost us. The Civic was a pleasant surprise and a wonderful car.

john4546

graphicguy said:

benjaminh said:

Like most auto deals it was its own special case. To make a long story short, they gave me a very good value on my trade of my 2016 Accord EX. The Accord had 27k miles and was in very good shape but not perfect. For instance it had a significant paint scratch. Almost exactly 2 years ago I paid 22.5k + TTL for the Accord, and they gave a trade-in value of 17k, which means that I got two years of great use out of the Accord for 5.5k. My remaining loan from Honda on the car was a little over 11k, which gave me almost 6k to fold into the deal. I know most people say don't put that much into a lease, but I wanted a lower monthly payment. Anyway, my lease payment on the TLX including taxes and everything else is 229 a month for 36 months with 12k miles a year. When I got to the dealership things started at 270 a month with an initial trade-in value of c.15.3. I had really gone to the Acura dealer almost on a whim. I've admired Acuras since 1986, but I told them quite honestly that a lease at 270 a month meant that I realized it just wasn't in the cards for me to lease something beyond a new Accord. But they were at the end of their sales period and needed to meet a certain goal, and so they very pleasantly did whatever it took to get me into the new TLX. The TLX Tech has a list price of 37.6, which was already marked down before I stepped in the door to c.29, in large part because of big incentives from Acura. The final residual value after 3 years, should I want to purchase the TLX, is c.18k. Right now I doubt I could find a nicer car in 3 years for 18k. But the trick is will I want the next tech improvements at that time.

The Milano leather seats on the TLX are very comfortable as you'd expect—and way beyond my Accord's cloth seats

I was thinking last night, I like the Milano Sports Seats in my TLX so much that I’d love to have one in my office.

graphicguy said:

benjaminh said:

Like most auto deals it was its own special case. To make a long story short, they gave me a very good value on my trade of my 2016 Accord EX. The Accord had 27k miles and was in very good shape but not perfect. For instance it had a significant paint scratch. Almost exactly 2 years ago I paid 22.5k + TTL for the Accord, and they gave a trade-in value of 17k, which means that I got two years of great use out of the Accord for 5.5k. My remaining loan from Honda on the car was a little over 11k, which gave me almost 6k to fold into the deal. I know most people say don't put that much into a lease, but I wanted a lower monthly payment. Anyway, my lease payment on the TLX including taxes and everything else is 229 a month for 36 months with 12k miles a year. When I got to the dealership things started at 270 a month with an initial trade-in value of c.15.3. I had really gone to the Acura dealer almost on a whim. I've admired Acuras since 1986, but I told them quite honestly that a lease at 270 a month meant that I realized it just wasn't in the cards for me to lease something beyond a new Accord. But they were at the end of their sales period and needed to meet a certain goal, and so they very pleasantly did whatever it took to get me into the new TLX. The TLX Tech has a list price of 37.6, which was already marked down before I stepped in the door to c.29, in large part because of big incentives from Acura. The final residual value after 3 years, should I want to purchase the TLX, is c.18k. Right now I doubt I could find a nicer car in 3 years for 18k. But the trick is will I want the next tech improvements at that time.

The Milano leather seats on the TLX are very comfortable as you'd expect—and way beyond my Accord's cloth seats

I was thinking last night, I like the Milano Sports Seats in my TLX so much that I’d love to have one in my office.

Good luck @ben love the color and vehicle . I just bought my 1st new car a few days ago a Accord sport, after waiting 4 months for pricing to come down .

stickguy

Yeah, they will finance it for you. Dealer takes care of it for you if you want to buy it out.

nyccarguy

benjaminh said:

tbirdmarco said:

Benjaman. Congrads on the new ride    Good luck 

Thanks tbirdmarco and everyone else for the congrats on my new leased TLX. For this week I'll be missing it, because I'm in Seattle visiting my elderly parents. The TLX is safe and sound in our one-car garage while my wife's new CR-V is out on the street. She herself suggested it, since we own (with a loan) the CR-V.

I had my 2016 Accord a mere 23 months, but ended up driving it 27k miles. 27,000/23 means that I drove an average of 1174 miles a month. My guess is I'll be driving somewhere around that level for the next three years, and if so 1174 x the 36 months of my lease means that the new TLX might have c. 42,000 miles by the end of the lease.

Since it's a 12k a year lease, or 36k over three years, should I be worried?

Something my salesguy told me makes me think it'll be ok. He said, and I assume he knew what he was talking about, that if you lease another Acura (or Honda even) that they will waive the extra miles up to 7500. That seems to mean that the real mile limit on the lease is actually 43,500, which seems impressive.

Another option that's a real possibility is that in 3 years we just buy the TLX. The residual value on the TLX was only something like $18,300. Sine we always do our maintenance by the book, even if it has c. 42k miles I doubt I could find a nicer and better performing car for that kind of money. Is Acura willing to finance your vehicle if you just decide to buy it out at the end of the lease? Or I guess I could just get a used car loan through my bank.

Anyway, with either of those options—lease another Acura or Honda, or buy out the car—it seems like I'm going to be ok when it comes to miles on the car.

And the third option is somewhat painful but doable—just pay the money for the extra miles. I think it's 20 cents per extra mile, which for c. 6000 miles means $1200 bucks. Ouch. But ok.

Enjoy the TLX. Don't worry about the over mileage charges. You haven't even had the car a week yet.

pensfan83

@benjaminh Acura will waive up to half your mileage up to 7,500 if you re-up with another Acura/Honda when your lease is up. So if you over mileage by 4,000 miles and lease/finance another Acura/Honda they'll waive 2,000 of it for you....probably the rest as well if you are buying another vehicle. I wouldn't stress over it now though, enjoy the car. I would also echo your review of the ELS sound system. I've owned or driven cars with Sony, Infinity, Bose, or B&O sound systems and while I'm no audiophile, the ELS sounds more crisp, clear, with good bass than any of the above.

graphicguy

pensfan83 said:

@benjaminh Acura will waive up to half your mileage up to 7,500 if you re-up with another Acura/Honda when your lease is up. So if you over mileage by 4,000 miles and lease/finance another Acura/Honda they'll waive 2,000 of it for you....probably the rest as well if you are buying another vehicle. I wouldn't stress over it now though, enjoy the car. I would also echo your review of the ELS sound system. I've owned or driven cars with Sony, Infinity, Bose, or B&O sound systems and while I'm no audiophile, the ELS sounds more crisp, clear, with good bass than any of the above.

Love the ELS system. I’ll throw in that it sounds better than the Harmon systems used in BMWs, and the Mark Levinson systems used in Lexi vehicles.

Guys....thanks for the advice on the R22 and A/C systems. I’m going to see if I can find another service provider as the tech who said I needed a new system clearly wants to sell a new system.

Appreciate all the feedback.

28firefighter

This seems like a really nice car for the money:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=484940189

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

This seems like a really nice car for the money:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=484940189

Not exactly the same.. but I drove a 2015 Q5 V-6, last year.. Back when the Q5 offered two engines. It was about that same asking price and mileage, too.

Very, very fast, and all the bells and whistles... but, a little wallowy (is that a word?) in the handling department. Of course, you'd expect the SQ5 to be better.

tifighter

28firefighter said:

This seems like a really nice car for the money:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=484940189

Seems pretty reasonable, although I haven't kept track of these. I haven't had the best of luck with the cleanliness of pre-owned stuff I've seen at Bellevue autonation stores.

tifighter

I'm helping a friend look at bigger SUV's and came across this-
https://cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/mySavedListings.action?sourceContext=untrackedExternal_false_0#listing=207101824
Seems like a strong deal as a new one stickers around $60k, and it only has 6K miles.

28firefighter

tifighter said:

28firefighter said:

This seems like a really nice car for the money:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=484940189

Seems pretty reasonable, although I haven't kept track of these. I haven't had the best of luck with the cleanliness of pre-owned stuff I've seen at Bellevue autonation stores.

Generally agree re: AutoNation - about as clean as the cars I see at CarMax typically.

28firefighter

I'm seeing a 2018 340 former loaner in NorCal listed for 25% off before incentives. Even with a totally marked up MF, could be a great deal.

I don't even want the car, I just want to nab the deal...

kyfdx

lol

pensfan83

Manual?

28firefighter

pensfan83 said:

Manual?

No. Auto.

28firefighter

Also, maybe not as good as I'd thought. BMW MFs are now .00187 (~4.5% interest) for the base top tier buy rate.

corvette

Your wife wouldn’t have the same reaction to that as she did the C-class? 

28firefighter

She drives a BMW. So no. But I don’t want it anyway. 

andres3

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

OK, this really IS for a friend of mine. What do you guys think about this used BMW for sale at an Acura Dealership in NJ? You guys know me well enough to know that I don't have a convertible fetish.

https://www.precisionacura.com/used/BMW/2018-BMW-4+Series-1d5f98810a0d0cc74bd561d8fe08765f.htm

Why do AWD convertibles bug me so much? I guess because it is a contradiction. Fair weather purpose collides with foul weather concern.

Anyway, price is rather extreme. $35k should take it.

I guess an Audi AllRoad convertible with quattro AWD isn't on your shopping list! Not that they make it, but if they did..... It would sort of be like those open top Wranglers. You can off-road, the dust goes on the car behind you.

andres3

tjc78 said:

I’ve never owned a Honda or Acura. I can’t say I’ve ever driven an Acura either.

Start with an NSX test-drive....to set your Acura .... baseline.

benjaminh

As you know this TLX is my first lease, and I confess that only after the fact am I starting to research all the ins and outs with leasing. A few surprises came at me as I read some articles, such as...

As your lease comes to an end "Many manufacturers use an independent company to conduct the vehicle inspection, which is free for the lease holder (technically called the "lessee"). The inspector will come to your home or office, and the process takes about 45 minutes. A pro tip: Be nice to the inspector. Is it hot out? Offer some water. Is the inspector doing the job at your workplace? Pick up the cost of parking. Your courtesy could come in handy if the inspector has leeway in deciding whether a bit of damage could pass."

https://www.edmunds.com/car-leasing/how-to-return-your-leased-car.html

I'd assumed that the end of lease inspection would take place at an Acura dealer. Hmmm.

Next surprise involves the possible "trade-in" rather than walk away option at the end of the lease, which according to this article might work this way:

"Now that we have the two important numbers (the residual value and the true value) it is decision time to figure out which of the three options above is the smartest. Let’s use three examples:

#1 You found a dealer ready to write a check for $20,000 for your leased car. The residual value is $18,000. You have $2000 in true equity that belongs to you. You can trade the car in and use the $2000 to reduce the next payment, whether you buy or lease, or you can take your leased car to the dealership that was high bidder, it will pay it off and write you a check for $2000 that you can do with as you wish."

https://www.carprousa.com/easy-to-follow-guide-to-your-end-of-lease-options

Ok. Probably this scenario is rare. But I can see how it could happen. My residual value was set at I think 50%, which seemed maybe a little low? I'm seeing 3-year old CPO TLXs with Tech package like I've got listing for maybe c.$24k. Since my residual is close to 18k, seems like in three years there might be a chance of a little value in it? I'd be more likely to buy it myself, I think, but I had no idea this option even existed.

Sandman6472

Busy day at work today and naturally, out of the four of us who didn't get paid today, I was in that group! For some reason I had a bad feeling this morning when I woke up. Got onto the computer to check my deposit at 5:58 am and nothing was there. Tried again about 6:05 am and again...nothing. I knew it was going to be a bad day! And it went downhill from there.
Was promised it would be in my account tomorrow morning but when I've been told that before, it never was and had to wait a whole week for it to appear. So, am very doubtful it'll be there in the morning.
We switched over to clocking our time in the computer last Friday, the start of our week. Of course, my password didn't work, so I couldn't clock in, clock out for lunch or clock back in from lunch. It was fixed by the time I clocked off to go home but only issue is if my boss didn't fix my clock rings before he left tonight, my pay will be screwed up again! I was assured it would be fixed before he left tonight but I'm very doubtful it was done correctly. Don't understand why a company as big as Hertz has these pay issues so frequently, as every week, some of our employees seem to have pay issues. My last one was before I got sick in May and on that one, had to wait a whole week to get paid, got two checks combined. Luckily I don't need these checks to survive but what happens if I did live paycheck to paycheck and had incurred a late fee because of their inability to get their payroll straight? What recourse would any employee have?
Just hoping things get corrected tomorrow morning and next week without anymore issues. And if not, what recourse does an employee have with an incompetent person doing the payroll and incompetent folks up in payroll? My boss insisted the four of us had our times correctly done on the email sent but still, it happened again to the four of us?
Beyond frustrated here now!!!

The Sandman :@


(P.S. Have always had a saying where there's 3 things that no one should ever "f" with!! One is my lunch. Another is my family. And the third is my "$"!!! Never ever mess with these three things or one will see The Real Sandman!!!, lol!)

stickguy

my VW and Hyundai both used the independent inspector (might have even been the same company). They came to my house and did it in the driveway. I think it was about 15 minutes total for each one, tops. But, they were also both pretty clean and had no charges or even gray areas.

I did know one person that had a lot of equity in lease (an S10 Blazer of all things) because she leased it when they were unpopular, and by the end of the lease they were getting a premium. So I know she was able to trade it in. At least for my cars, there was no trade equity (which I am pretty sure is the norm).

You should be in good shape if you want to buy. But that is probably going to be at or above trade in value, since the 24K is asking for a CPO. Trade in offers are going to be a whole lot less! But at 18K, you would be buying "wholesale" rather than retail basically.

tbirdmarco

Man  sand man hoping things get fixed 

benjaminh

Hang in there @sandman_6472 !

benjaminh

stickguy said:

....You should be in good shape if you want to buy. But that is probably going to be at or above trade in value, since the 24K is asking for a CPO. Trade in offers are going to be a whole lot less! But at 18K, you would be buying "wholesale" rather than retail basically.

Yes, this makes sense. I probably won't have any trade-in value, but I might have an option to buy the equivalent of a CPO at a wholesale price.

stickguy

if this thing was not triple black, i could possibly talk myself into it.

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2007-bmw-z4-z4_3_0i_sport_premium_xenons_6_speed-used-17808889.html

henryn

I was talking to a friend, used to be my next door neighbor. Turns out he made a killing in BitCoin, and is thinking about buying a HellCat with some of his profits. Makes me wish I had jumped in, but I never quite trusted the whole scenario. And still don't, to tell the truth.

kyfdx

henryn said:

I was talking to a friend, used to be my next door neighbor. Turns out he made a killing in BitCoin, and is thinking about buying a HellCat with some of his profits. Makes me wish I had jumped in, but I never quite trusted the whole scenario. And still don't, to tell the truth.

Yeah... if you had jumped in 8 months ago, you might be down 65%, right now.

Tulip bulbs... Plenty of people get rich, but a whole bunch of suckers lose their shirts.
If your friend cashed out, and made a bunch, he is smarter than most.

stickguy

not sure if the price is right for the year/miles, but I love this one. The style with the hatch, and the colors. No sports seats though is a bummer. But, I would have to try the standard ones for myself.

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2015-bmw-4_series-certified_428i_xdrive_gran_coupe_luxury_line_awd_camenav-used-17736551.html

benjaminh

stickguy said:

not sure if the price is right for the year/miles, but I love this one. The style with the hatch, and the colors. No sports seats though is a bummer. But, I would have to try the standard ones for myself.

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2015-bmw-4_series-certified_428i_xdrive_gran_coupe_luxury_line_awd_camenav-used-17736551.html

Yes, I like this one. And the price seems pretty good. What would the original msrp have been? c.50k?

28firefighter

Not a huge fan of the luxury package wheels. 

suydam

I wouldn’t be worrying about the end of the lease. Enjoy your car now.

nyccarguy

28firefighter said:

Not a huge fan of the luxury package wheels. 

Agreed

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

if this thing was not triple black, i could possibly talk myself into it. http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2007-bmw-z4-z4_3_0i_sport_premium_xenons_6_speed-used-17808889.html

I dig triple black on the Z4

benjaminh

suydam said:

I wouldn’t be worrying about the end of the lease. Enjoy your car now.

True. But since I've never leased before, it helps me to enjoy it now if I know what's eventually coming up.

sda

benjaminh said:

suydam said:

I wouldn’t be worrying about the end of the lease. Enjoy your car now.

True. But since I've never leased before, it helps me to enjoy it now if I know what's eventually coming up.

Unless you have a prolonged spike in mileage I wouldn't worry. Enjoy that TLX!

qbrozen

henryn said:

I was talking to a friend, used to be my next door neighbor. Turns out he made a killing in BitCoin, and is thinking about buying a HellCat with some of his profits. Makes me wish I had jumped in, but I never quite trusted the whole scenario. And still don't, to tell the truth.

Well tell him to be smart again and just lease one.

qbrozen

andres3 said:

nyccarguy said:

OK, this really IS for a friend of mine. What do you guys think about this used BMW for sale at an Acura Dealership in NJ? You guys know me well enough to know that I don't have a convertible fetish. https://www.precisionacura.com/used/BMW/2018-BMW-4+Series-1d5f98810a0d0cc74bd561d8fe08765f.htm

Why do AWD convertibles bug me so much? I guess because it is a contradiction. Fair weather purpose collides with foul weather concern.

Anyway, price is rather extreme. $35k should take it.

I guess an Audi AllRoad convertible with quattro AWD isn't on your shopping list! Not that they make it, but if they did..... It would sort of be like those open top Wranglers. You can off-road, the dust goes on the car behind you.

True enough on the Wrangler, but topless vehicles made for safari rather than boulevard cruising. Of course, those are also 4wd, not AWD. ;b

And, no, a convertible Audi of any type would never make my list.

corvette

kyfdx said:

I was talking to a friend, used to be my next door neighbor. Turns out he made a killing in BitCoin, and is thinking about buying a HellCat with some of his profits. Makes me wish I had jumped in, but I never quite trusted the whole scenario. And still don't, to tell the truth.

Yeah... if you had jumped in 8 months ago, you might be down 65%, right now. Tulip bulbs... Plenty of people get rich, but a whole bunch of suckers lose their shirts. If your friend cashed out, and made a bunch, he is smarter than most.

Or luckier than most. It’s backed by no government—not even a fiat currency. The difference between investing and speculating is that you invest in an asset that produces something of value; if you buy something that doesn’t produce anything of value, in the hopes someone will later buy it from you for more than you paid, you’re speculating. 

stickguy

I actually like those luxury line wheels on that car. But if that was the only drawback, easy enough to change for something else. And I assume that MSRP on that car is probably about double asking price, or real close to it.

Bradd, I really don't like black cars much, and only with a lighter interior. So black over black is a tough sell. And I have no interest in a black interior on a convertible. Ouch. I actually prefer cloth seats! The black top, well, that is not a big deal.

au1994

benjaminh said:

stickguy said:

....You should be in good shape if you want to buy. But that is probably going to be at or above trade in value, since the 24K is asking for a CPO. Trade in offers are going to be a whole lot less! But at 18K, you would be buying "wholesale" rather than retail basically.

Yes, this makes sense. I probably won't have any trade-in value, but I might have an option to buy the equivalent of a CPO at a wholesale price.

It’s happened to me before, both with Honda products. Had an 02 Accord on lease and was shopping 4Runners at lease end. The Toyota salesman kept insisting to give me a trade number on the Accord. I finally agreed and sure enough 1200 in positive equity that became my down payment, out the door money on a 4Runner.

Much later on I had a TSX and then caught a bad case of BMW fever. Was able to trade out of the TSX dead even after 1 year of a 3 year lease into a 328.

graphicguy

nyccarguy said:

stickguy said:

if this thing was not triple black, i could possibly talk myself into it.

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2007-bmw-z4-z4_3_0i_sport_premium_xenons_6_speed-used-17808889.html

I dig triple black on the Z4

I do, too! That’s pretty danged sharp!!!!!

Cryptourrency.....looks like the end is nigh. Most of them have cratered in the last few weeks. I don’t know of anyone (and I’m in the tech field) that’s made any money on crypto.

kyfdx

au1994 said:

benjaminh said:

stickguy said:

....You should be in good shape if you want to buy. But that is probably going to be at or above trade in value, since the 24K is asking for a CPO. Trade in offers are going to be a whole lot less! But at 18K, you would be buying "wholesale" rather than retail basically.

Yes, this makes sense. I probably won't have any trade-in value, but I might have an option to buy the equivalent of a CPO at a wholesale price.

It’s happened to me before, both with Honda products. Had an 02 Accord on lease and was shopping 4Runners at lease end. The Toyota salesman kept insisting to give me a trade number on the Accord. I finally agreed and sure enough 1200 in positive equity that became my down payment, out the door money on a 4Runner.

Much later on I had a TSX and then caught a bad case of BMW fever. Was able to trade out of the TSX dead even after 1 year of a 3 year lease into a 328.

I traded out of leased '97 and '99 Accords, both with positive equity.. Doesn't happen as much, any more. I remember on the '99, the money factor was .00236, though!

pensfan83

Without any backing I don't see cryptocurrency gaining a foothold in mainstream society.

Michaell

Slightly off topic - for @nyccarguy and @qbrozen - my sister and nephew are in Manhattan this weekend. He will be attending the Columbia summer football camp tomorrow morning, but they are staying in town through Monday.

Looking for some things for them to do and places to eat.

While Columbia is on the Upper East Side, they are staying in lower Manhattan (don't ask me why; I'm not sure they know). I think today they are doing the 9/11 Memorial.

Anyone else is welcome to chime in, also. It's been years since I've been there.

kyfdx

A lot of good restaurants in the Greenwich Village area... should be a short walk.