Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

breld

@henryn - thanks for the feedback regarding escalating the issue. I agree, and that's part of the reason we have prepared a letter to share with the dealership's management - it's meant to provide honest feedback but it's also cathartic.

As far as an end goal, I can't really imagine a scenario where I stay with the brand, so there's not a real "ask" for us.

Of note, I went on their website to see about a Service Manager, thinking that's probably the appropriate first step. According to their staff listing, there is no Service Manager. And based on my observation while in the service department, I actually would think "my" service advisor is sort of the acting manager of the group - which explains a lot.

pensfan83

Michaell said:

The more I think about the TLX, the more I like it. Right size, good feature set - though I need to find out if the 2016's have CarPlay. And, lots of inventory to choose from. I've been putting in various zip codes and looking at inventory. I did Philadelphia last night - seems the prices there are a bit lower than I've seen for either Denver or LA.

CarPlay was just added to the TLX with the 2018 refresh.

stickguy

our RDX is broken in, and still gets lousy mileage around town. lots of real short hops with lights and stop signs. And my wife has a hard foot. Not that she drives fast, just rough/jerky. basically the opposite of what you would do to help your MPG. so when I get in after she has driven it for a while, I know the current MPG reading will be crappy (usually in the 17s). Does better when I drive. and much better on the highway. As long as I am driving!

mjfloyd1

I had a 3 series at Dreyer and Reinbold that was in for service with a rental car to use since they had to order parts. I was going out of town and they asked me not to drive the rental on my trip and to just leave the rental in my driveway. They said that they would swap out the cars. I arrived home after a week to find th rental car still in my driveway. I called and they said they would bring my car on the following Monday. They swapped cars and I arrived home after work to find my car looking like a golf ball. I called and they said “yes we had a hail storm but your car wasn’t affected”. After many calls, their insurance paid for PDR but I had 2 trips back to interior trim pieces not attached properly.  

@breld, I feel your pain

When I had an A6 with prepaid maintenance , I took it to the local Audi dealer for the 2 yr service. When I picked it up, I noticed that they didn’t flush the brake fluid so I asked the service guy about it. He looked it up on his computer and said it wasn’t required. I asked if he wanted me to show him in the service manual where it says flush brake fluid every two years. He declined so I asked him if he wanted me to call Audi and have them tell him that it was part of the two year service. Like an idiot, he said yes.  So then they flushed my brake fluid after talking with Audi.  I tried...

carnaught

The poor milleage I was referring to on some(?) ‘19 RDX’s are on broken-in vehicles, and with both city and highway use.

stickguy

still surprised there are that many data points since they only went on sale less than 6 weeks ago.

Michaell

pensfan83 said:

Michaell said:

The more I think about the TLX, the more I like it. Right size, good feature set - though I need to find out if the 2016's have CarPlay. And, lots of inventory to choose from. I've been putting in various zip codes and looking at inventory. I did Philadelphia last night - seems the prices there are a bit lower than I've seen for either Denver or LA.

CarPlay was just added to the TLX with the 2018 refresh.

Bummer - I really like having it on my Jetta. But, if it's Bluetooth compatible and I can play music via the USB cable, I should be ok.

EDIT - plus, the Tech package has nav, so I'm covered there.

pensfan83

You may get lucky with finding CPO 2018. They'll have been out 2 years by the time you're ready to purchase and if you stick with FWD I would imagine those wouldn't be in high demand in Denver and you could find a dealer willing to deal.

If not, keep checking Philly area and if you find one swing into Pittsburgh on your trip back west

Michaell

pensfan83 said:

You may get lucky with finding CPO 2018. They'll have been out 2 years by the time you're ready to purchase and if you stick with FWD I would imagine those wouldn't be in high demand in Denver and you could find a dealer willing to deal.

If not, keep checking Philly area and if you find one swing into Pittsburgh on your trip back west

Surprisingly, a fair amount of FWD here in Denver. If I travel, I'd likely look closer than the East Coast - ABQ, SLC, perhaps even LA area, since I have family there.

But, I've been jonesing for a road trip for a while, and I do also have some family in the Philly / So. Jersey area ….

breld

@qbrozen - if it's not too much trouble, I'm curious as to how well the MDX holds its value. Could you give me an idea of values for 2017 average mile models: SH-AWD Tech vs Advance, and Sport Hybrid Tech vs. Advance.

breld

I'm sort of obsessively looking at resale values as part of an effort to mitigate the hit I'm about to take - I find this interesting...

Generally it seems that higher trim levels don't necessarily equate to proportionately higher resale. But for Audi, it seems to me, at least for the Q7, that the Prestige model holds its value much better than the Premium Plus, like it's a recognized valuable trim level on the used market. If you option up a Premium Plus with all the available packages, the MSRP gets real close to the Prestige, but you certainly don't get the value back on resale versus opting for the Prestige.

Just an observation.

qbrozen

$38k
$39k

$42k
$43k


all auction numbers

kyfdx

breld said:

I'm sort of obsessively looking at resale values as part of an effort to mitigate the hit I'm about to take - I find this interesting...

Generally it seems that higher trim levels don't necessarily equate to proportionately higher resale. But for Audi, it seems to me, at least for the Q7, that the Prestige model holds its value much better than the Premium Plus, like it's a recognized valuable trim level on the used market. If you option up a Premium Plus with all the available packages, the MSRP gets real close to the Prestige, but you certainly don't get the value back on resale versus opting for the Prestige.

Just an observation.

I think it depends on your holding period, and age of the vehicle.

If you are looking at 2018 models for a 3-month holding period, you are probably right..

On a 2015 model that someone has had for three years? I'd guess the Prestige depreciates a lot faster. (At least AFS thinks so, when they assign residual values)

breld

Wow that's fast. Thanks Q.

So looks like the Hybrid actually holds its value, particularly since the initial premium is a mere $1,500.

And by the same token, given the Advance model carries a $6k premium, probably not worth it unless those options are a must-have.

laurasdada

Breld, sorry about your LR follies, a shame. At my last visit to my Jag/LR dealer, I was wandering around the showroom floor when one of the owners (wife or daughter?) asked if I needed any help. I mentioned that my XF was in service, so I was just enjoying time waiting. She asked how's the service and my advisor been, I told her all is well, I've been well taken care of (meaning even though when the XF is in the shop, it seems to be there for a few days but I get a loaner and good communication), she seemed pleased. She said that they're really trying to step up their service and dealership experience as they're surrounded by a couple of very large automotive groups (notably Herb Chambers).

I should have suggested more free food in the waiting area...

kyfdx

I can still remember window shopping at the British Leyland/BMW dealer back in the '70s when we were just out of high school..

As we are getting out of the car, a lady walks out of the service entrance, and shouts... "Never buy a @#$%^ Jaguar. The cars are crap and so is this dealership!!"

xwesx

breld said:

The Acura appeals to me partially from a nostalgic and intangibles perspective, since I do have very positive experiences with the brand. And while I do believe it trails the Q7 in overall feel and driving dynamics, that's also reflected in the lower cost. As an accountant, I naturally always have some sense of cost/benefit, and diminishing returns. So the contentment I gain from the lower price point may outweigh the gains in dynamics of the Audi. Maybe.

My wife and I also discussed the idea that as long as I'm set on a larger SUV, which suits our family needs at this time for sure, perhaps "chasing" the sporty enthusiast aspects in the class is too challenging, as good as the Q7 is. The Q7 does a great impersonation of, let's say, an A6, which is a huge compliment. But it doesn't necessarily replicate the experience of my old S4, or the Polestar wagon.

And that Sport Hybrid system in the MDX, cribbed somewhat from the NSX, is pretty darn cool.

Well, don't get the Q7 for the sizing aspect. It really is just mediocre in that regard. It is a solid five-seater, and without a substantial amount of headroom at that! Don't ever.... I mean EVER!... think about actually using the third row. Unless the person(s) back there is a toddler, they will hold it against you for a long, long time.

xwesx

It figures.

I spent a substantial amount of time last night prepping my Q7 so that I could list if for sale. By the time I finished, it was nearing midnight and light was present, but poor. I figured it would be better to wait until morning and snap photos before I headed into work.

So, I get up this morning to pouring rain. And it is still pouring!

I imagine that when it is finished raining so I can photograph it, it will probably look about like it did before I prepped it in the first place. LOL

Michaell

breld said:

I'm sort of obsessively looking at resale values as part of an effort to mitigate the hit I'm about to take - I find this interesting...

Generally it seems that higher trim levels don't necessarily equate to proportionately higher resale. But for Audi, it seems to me, at least for the Q7, that the Prestige model holds its value much better than the Premium Plus, like it's a recognized valuable trim level on the used market. If you option up a Premium Plus with all the available packages, the MSRP gets real close to the Prestige, but you certainly don't get the value back on resale versus opting for the Prestige.

Just an observation.

That's interesting, because the Prestige trim level of the Q7 has a 4% lower residual value than the Premium Plus. We always tell folks looking to lease an Audi to get the lower trim level, and option it up.

Since they are walking away from the lease after 3 years, true resale value doesn't much matter.

Michaell

xwesx said:

breld said:

The Acura appeals to me partially from a nostalgic and intangibles perspective, since I do have very positive experiences with the brand. And while I do believe it trails the Q7 in overall feel and driving dynamics, that's also reflected in the lower cost. As an accountant, I naturally always have some sense of cost/benefit, and diminishing returns. So the contentment I gain from the lower price point may outweigh the gains in dynamics of the Audi. Maybe.

My wife and I also discussed the idea that as long as I'm set on a larger SUV, which suits our family needs at this time for sure, perhaps "chasing" the sporty enthusiast aspects in the class is too challenging, as good as the Q7 is. The Q7 does a great impersonation of, let's say, an A6, which is a huge compliment. But it doesn't necessarily replicate the experience of my old S4, or the Polestar wagon.

And that Sport Hybrid system in the MDX, cribbed somewhat from the NSX, is pretty darn cool.

Well, don't get the Q7 for the sizing aspect. It really is just mediocre in that regard. It is a solid five-seater, and without a substantial amount of headroom at that! Don't ever.... I mean EVER!... think about actually using the third row. Unless the person(s) back there is a toddler, they will hold it against you for a long, long time.

I think @breld is looking at the new, redesigned Q7. I believe he's commented that the 3rd row is smaller than in the Discovery.

mjfloyd1

@breld I would see if they would sell the Q7 non CPO since it suits your trading timeframe better to not pay extra for it. May get closer to $5k difference

tommister2

mjfloyd1 said:

@breld I would see if they would sell the Q7 non CPO since it suits your trading timeframe better to not pay extra for it. May get closer to $5k difference

I don’t know, now he’s dreaming about an Acura...  

mjfloyd1

A MDX won’t drive anything like a LR or Q7 as it seems much lighter. No thunk when you shut the doors. The MDX will hold its value much better though.  Trade offs 

Mr_Shiftright

breld said:

So the GSM I spoke with a couple months back, who was very professional and compassionate, and who was basically responsible for making sure the bumper repair was done properly...he's no longer with Land Rover Denver.

Can't have any of THAT now can we? Next thing you know, they'd start acting grateful for your business.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Just perusing and see Princeton Volvo has new 2016s still on the lot, one of which is an XC90. Wonder what kind of deal they'd make. 

They also have a v60 and an s60 drive-e. 

Well it won't be less than they paid for it!

Mr_Shiftright

kyfdx said:

I can still remember window shopping at the British Leyland/BMW dealer back in the '70s when we were just out of high school..

As we are getting out of the car, a lady walks out of the service entrance, and shouts... "Never buy a @#$%^ Jaguar. The cars are crap and so is this dealership!!"

Man, I wish I had had a mom like that--it would have saved me so much pain.

It only took me 3 Jaguars to understand that the first two were not merely bad luck.

stickguy

it will be when they finally ship it off to auction.

surprised they have not put them into service loaner duty for a while, then out on the CPO lot.

henryn

When I was shopping for my new 2018 F150, the dealer had 3 2017 models left. This was about 2 weeks ago. The prices online were slightly higher than for comparable 2018 models. I asked my salesman about that, and he said there were no more incentives on the 2017 models.

Sooner or later, something will have to give. But they weren't willing to make a deal when I was shopping.

xwesx

Michaell said:

I think @breld is looking at the new, redesigned Q7. I believe he's commented that the 3rd row is smaller than in the Discovery.

Yes, though the redesign really didn't have an appreciable effect on the space considerations.

breld

This is true - one of the deciding factors in my original decision was the roomier and usable third row in the Discovery.

But over the past 3-4 months of ownership, I've realized we have used the third row a handful of times. Enough to where I still want one (and I like the larger SUV anyway), but with the Audi, we can sit three in the middle row (with reasonable comfort) and have one person sprawl a little in the third row. So, perfectly fine for 90% of the use, and workable for the remainder.

au1994

Does the Atlas have a 3rd row?

stickguy

the Atlas does. fairly roomy too, by class standards.

I would look at the big Sube too if I needed a 3 row barge. Just not that fast I guess.

28firefighter

Speaking from personal experience, if you want the Q7, you should get the Q7. Even if on paper there are better options, you won't be happy with them after a week.

That said, I would strongly consider a 2017 MY since it will hopefully have taken a bit more of the depreciation hit....

au1994

I like the look of the big Subaru but yes, would be concerned about power as well. Good excuse for a test drive I guess.

qbrozen

henryn said:

When I was shopping for my new 2018 F150, the dealer had 3 2017 models left. This was about 2 weeks ago. The prices online were slightly higher than for comparable 2018 models. I asked my salesman about that, and he said there were no more incentives on the 2017 models.

Sooner or later, something will have to give. But they weren't willing to make a deal when I was shopping.

There may not have been current incentives, but as I understand it, when the older models are effectively abandoned by the manufacturer, they pay an incentive directly to the dealer that they can use to help offload the unit. Now, could that be a smaller incentive than on a new one? Yeah, I suppose. But the dealer's alternative is to take an even bigger loss by sending it off to auction.

suydam

If you need a third row, nothing beats a minivan for room. Just sayin.

Michaell

suydam said:

If you need a third row, nothing beats a minivan for room. Just sayin.

He’s had a Sedona...

henryn

suydam said:

If you need a third row, nothing beats a minivan for room. Just sayin.

True. Very true. My Chrysler Town & Country is the most practical vehicle I have ever owned. Period. Bar none. And I have owned a lot of cars, trucks, vans, you name it.

Not the most exciting thing, and for damned sure not the sexiest. But hands down the most practical. With the second and third row seats folded, I can carry 4x8 sheets of plywood or sheetrock. Try that in your SUV!

qbrozen said:

There may not have been current incentives, but as I understand it, when the older models are effectively abandoned by the manufacturer, they pay an incentive directly to the dealer that they can use to help offload the unit. Now, could that be a smaller incentive than on a new one? Yeah, I suppose. But the dealer's alternative is to take an even bigger loss by sending it off to auction.

All I can say, I was sitting there, talking to the salesman who sold me the new truck last year, and wound up selling me the new truck this year. I had a printed copy of the online listing for the comparable 2017 model, showed it to him, and said, "Make me a deal, I have my checkbook. But it's going to have to be better than this."

He went off, talked to his manager, came back and said, "I can't even honor that online price you have. That includes a farm bureau incentive. Sorry."

Makes no sense to me. With a live customer, one they know is serious, sitting right there, checkbook in hand, they would not try to unload a 2017. Oh, well, I love my 2018, and I am enjoying the extra torque. Life is good.

Sandman6472

Drove a 2018 Buick Encore at work today for about an hour and started to like it. My lead driver knows I'm interested in these so he threw me the keys and sent me on a mission that actually took almost 2 hours. Got a pretty good feel about how it drives and think it's something I could live with. The only gripe was the audio system, needs more oomph really, like it's missing a subwoofer or something. Besides that, I liked it and the size fits me and since it's the same size as my Golf, the garage issue won't even be one.
With our oldest moving to the Orlando area come sometime in September, the wife thinks I might have to spend some time up there to help her get things settled which I totally agreed with. Gotta strange feeling that within a few months of her being gone, we'll seriously be looking at real estate in Central Florida which suits me fine. I'm so tired of South Florida, this year will be 49 years of living here, that I'd move in a second. But the only stipulation is that any house/condo purchase would have to be on a new unit in the mid $250's as I want to put almost $100K in the bank for living expenses and such. In other words, I want to downsize in space and price, end of story. And I think this is very doable to be honest.

The Sandman

andres3

breld said:

So to give credit where it’s due, @nyccarguy said this in March:

I know @breld is contemplating buying a Q7 at some point. If he goes for the Volvo now, he'll have the Q7 by Labor Day. 

Of course I went with the Land Rover instead of the Volvo, but his words will likely ring true.

I had another poor and frustrating interaction with my service advisor this evening while simply trying to schedule my first routine service (which, funny enough is far from my first visit to the service department  ).  I won’t bore you with the details of the conversation/argument, but it ended with me asking if there was a different advisor I could work with and his response was, “I think that’s a good idea.  I’ll have someone call you.”  And then he hung up.

This may all sound relatively mild and not reason enough to make a switch, but our overall ownership experience has been so bad that I have nothing but ill feelings toward the brand and dealership.  And there’s just not another feasible option as far as another dealership.

Boy, I miss my Durango and Type R.  Those were the good ol’ days.    

These are some dark days for Land Rover if they have a customer/owner yearning for a Dodge.

andres3

roadburner said:

I don't know what I'll do if the current management at my BMW dealer screws up service as bad as they have sales. The Ford and VW dealers won't hire techs with opposable thumbs, so a Mustamg GT or GTI/Golf R would definitely be a gamble.

Find an indy shop with opposable thumbs!

pensfan83

I went and looked at the 91 Prelude Si last night and came away fairly impressed.

The car is in great shape overall, especially the interior. No rips, stains, unexpected wear (drivers bolster has some wear on the edge but nothing horrifying), or smells. The cloth seats are well bolstered and snug with good support all around and you can actually adjust the side bolsters. All the controls work and fall easily within reach, it's a simple layout that just works. The current owner replaced the with a BT compatible head unit and also replaced all the speakers. He also added a USB port on the center console alongside the e-brake. The installs of both are really clean and they work. The car starts up with no smoke or smells and the car drives wonderfully, short precise shifts from the 5 speed with no grinding or difficulty getting into each gear. It won't win any races but rowing my own gears in a car that handles quite well is exactly what I'm looking for. All in all a really nice car, the repaint was done well and the current owner has kept it stock aside from a cold air intake and wheels from his 1994 GS-R. No rust either.

The lack of a documented repair history is something I would like to have on a 27 year old car. That being said the current owner (airline mechanic) and his father (owns his own garage, which I looked up and it's reputable) wrench on all their cars. The engine was completely rebuilt roughly 6,600 miles ago, clutch replaced, water pump, and timing belt too. Various suspension bits were also replaced as well. The a/c doesn't work though which isn't a deal breaker and I was told it will be recharged prior to any sale. The wheels are also pitted and corroded; I would probably end up replacing those along with the tires which only have a few thousand miles left at best. All in all though I was really pleasantly surprised, it's exactly what I have been looking for.

au1994

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-acura-integra-type-r-18/

These have been a hot topic lately...

qbrozen

pensfan83 said:

I went and looked at the 91 Prelude Si last night and came away fairly impressed. The car is in great shape overall, especially the interior. No rips, stains, unexpected wear (drivers bolster has some wear on the edge but nothing horrifying), or smells. The cloth seats are well bolstered and snug with good support all around and you can actually adjust the side bolsters. All the controls work and fall easily within reach, it's a simple layout that just works. The current owner replaced the with a BT compatible head unit and also replaced all the speakers. He also added a USB port on the center console alongside the e-brake. The installs of both are really clean and they work. The car starts up with no smoke or smells and the car drives wonderfully, short precise shifts from the 5 speed with no grinding or difficulty getting into each gear. It won't win any races but rowing my own gears in a car that handles quite well is exactly what I'm looking for. All in all a really nice car, the repaint was done well and the current owner has kept it stock aside from a cold air intake and wheels from his 1994 GS-R. No rust either. The lack of a documented repair history is something I would like to have on a 27 year old car. That being said the current owner (airline mechanic) and his father (owns his own garage, which I looked up and it's reputable) wrench on all their cars. The engine was completely rebuilt roughly 6,600 miles ago, clutch replaced, water pump, and timing belt too. Various suspension bits were also replaced as well. The a/c doesn't work though which isn't a deal breaker and I was told it will be recharged prior to any sale. The wheels are also pitted and corroded; I would probably end up replacing those along with the tires which only have a few thousand miles left at best. All in all though I was really pleasantly surprised, it's exactly what I have been looking for.

So why is it not in your possession? 

pensfan83

Given the need for tires, a/c, and state inspection within the next few months I made an offer of $3K on the spot however the owner has it on ebay and wants to let the auction run its course and admitted he is hoping to get closer to or over $4K. The cleanest 91 Si's on BaT didn't fetch more than around $6K IIRC and they had substantially less miles. The auction ends ends tonight so I'll either have a punch to report or I'll keep looking. As much as I like the car I'm not going to overpay for it.

ab348

au1994 said:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-acura-integra-type-r-18/

These have been a hot topic lately...

I get a "Not Found" response, not sure why since I found it and my link looks the same:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-acura-integra-type-r-18/

stickguy

So snag it before it’s gone. Easy cosmetics, and should last a long time.

suydam

You probably are not going to find another in that good a condition.

28firefighter

Sounds like a great car, @pensfan83. If you like it and it’s what you want, I wouldn’t vastly overpay to get it but I also wouldn’t let it go over a few hundred bucks. 

fintail

I saw a 3rd gen Prelude in traffic yesterday, red. Hubcaps, I assume a base model. There's a white one in my area with color matched factory wheels, I assume an Si.