Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright

The RX-8 is going in for its PPI Monday morning. The CARFAX shows 1-owner, 33 dealer service records.

corvette

Mr_Shiftright said:

The RX-8 is going in for its PPI Monday morning. The CARFAX shows 1-owner, 33 dealer service records.

I like this. Are you going to keep the MINI as a spare or dump it?

benjaminh

Mr_Shiftright said:

I have not tried a car with 4WS as far as I can recall. I suppose that with the types of cars I drive, on the roads that I drive, it might not make that much of a difference.

Going around corners in the city and on the highway is where 4WS is the most effective.

sda

Does 4WS enhance the ability to track straight, i.e. requiring minimal effort to drive straight ahead? I find the Accord tends to primarily drift to the right and is a tad sensitive to the crown/camber of the road. It is in alignment, so that isn't a factor that I'm aware. I have found tires can make a difference as well.

tbirdmarco

Nice nice  MR  shift rite. Good luck later on  today

ab348

benjaminh said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I have not tried a car with 4WS as far as I can recall. I suppose that with the types of cars I drive, on the roads that I drive, it might not make that much of a difference.

Going around corners in the city and on the highway is where 4WS is the most effective.




That would tend to cover it, I guess. Can't see taking a RX-8 off-road much.

I saw a late RX-7 on BaT bringing ridiculous money. Though it had very low miles (3000 or so) which explains that I suppose. One of the pics showed something I had forgotten about long ago. It was equipped with a Bose Acoustic Wave system which involved large, curvaceous plastic tunnels around the perimeter of the rear cargo area. Looked silly and probably rendered that area largely useless if you didn't want to damage them. Reminded me of the echo chamber that Capital Records dug underground below their parking lot when they were building their landmark Hollywood building in the 1950s.

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

The RX-8 is going in for its PPI Monday morning. The CARFAX shows 1-owner, 33 dealer service records.

Making progress. Did I miss it? Did you and the seller already come to an agreement on price?

Mr_Shiftright

No price agreement yet. I have a set price/offer and if they don't accept it, I'm walking. My offer is more than fair, generous even, but I have to admit it appears to be an exceptional example. We'll see what the PPI says. Any major issue shows up, I'm not going to jump in. It's going to be enough time and effort to keep a good RX-8 running well.

Not sure about the Mini. It wouldn't cost that much to keep insurance on it, although frankly if I was going to have a "spare" car, it would be some automatic sedan for long trips. Of course I have the Dodge Dakota, too...AND a motorcycle.

Going from a Mini to an RX-8 is, at best, a "sideways" move where you loss some MPG but gain some comfort. Reliability is probably a toss-up. The Mini's punishing ride is starting to wear thin.

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

No price agreement yet. I have a set price/offer and if they don't accept it, I'm walking. My offer is more than fair, generous even, but I have to admit it appears to be an exceptional example. We'll see what the PPI says. Any major issue shows up, I'm not going to jump in. It's going to be enough time and effort to keep a good RX-8 running well.

Not sure about the Mini. It wouldn't cost that much to keep insurance on it, although frankly if I was going to have a "spare" car, it would be some automatic sedan for long trips. Of course I have the Dodge Dakota, too...AND a motorcycle.

Going from a Mini to an RX-8 is, at best, a "sideways" move where you loss some MPG but gain some comfort. Reliability is probably a toss-up. The Mini's punishing ride is starting to wear thin.

Thinking if the RX8 you're looking at had the most glaring issues, it would not be a one owner. And, if it's one owner, I'm thinking it's been well maintained, based on what you've posted.

Can't wait to hear what the PPI turns up (hopefully nothing).

Excited for you, because it is a fun car.

graphicguy

BTW....as long as you watch the oil levels on the RX8, maintenance isn't going to be any more or less than any other 10 year old car. Keep a strong battery in it, and you should be good for a nice, long ownership experience.

If the apex seals haven't blown out by now (or they've been replaced), I think you're good to go.

Mr_Shiftright

Well the car runs like a scalded cat, so compression can't be TOO bad. I think I'm going to do the pre-mix thing, too. They say .5 oz for every gallon of gas.

If I can keep a '66 Triumph motorcycle running reliably, I don't see why I can't have an RX-8 as a daily driver.

It's an exotic of sorts. So careful maintenance and high running costs come with the territory. I would expect a Honda S2000 or an Alfa out of warranty would need the same level of care.

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well the car runs like a scalded cat, so compression can't be TOO bad. I think I'm going to do the pre-mix thing, too. They say .5 oz for every gallon of gas.

If I can keep a '66 Triumph motorcycle running reliably, I don't see why I can't have an RX-8 as a daily driver.

It's an exotic of sorts. So careful maintenance and high running costs come with the territory. I would expect a Honda S2000 or an Alfa out of warranty would need the same level of care.

I'm sure you won't have any issues. I know you've probably thought of this, and the PPI should cover it, but make certain the coil is in good shape. Lots of people traded their RX8s thinking their Renesis was bad, when all they needed was a new coil. One would think the technicians known this, but sometimes I wondered about my dealer's technicians, as they weren't very knowledgeable about my RX8. I just chalked it up to it being a new model, but still.....

Mazda put weak coils in the RX8s (just like they did with weak batteries and weak A/C compressors). I'm sure it was a cost saving thing, but at the time, the RX8 was their flagship. They skimped here and there. That cost them dearly down the line.

While paying attention to the coils, may as well give a thorough inspection to the plug wires, the starter, etc.

Again, I'm sure whoever is doing the PPI knows this. Never hurts to remind them, though.

Mr_Shiftright

Well the coils on a rotary work a lot harder than they do on a normal ICE engine--so yeah, every 30K, just throw 'em out and get new ones.

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well the coils on a rotary work a lot harder than they do on a normal ICE engine--so yeah, every 30K, just throw 'em out and get new ones.

Cool....I'll stop throwing my 2 cents out there.

tifighter

This will be long, but for anyone that is curious-

Did my first road trip in the new car over the weekend to Portland. It was my first time using the Superchargers and using the new as a few days ago navigate on autopilot feature. When you enter a destination, the nav figures out the route, including charging stops if needed. You then start navigation. There is now an additional option called navigate on autopilot. If you choose this, the car can take control from on ramp to off ramp, meaning, you drive it in the city, then can handoff to the car once you start on the freeway. It will merge onto the freeway, make lane changes (with your okay), choose and drive through interchanges to different highways, etc. Eventually, it will reach the exit for your destination (or charging stop) and then hand control back over to you.

I'd let it merge to the middle lane and let it do it's thing. Every 30 seconds or so it wants you to tug the steering wheel, but otherwise, you can look around and watch the show. It centers in its lane very well, with none of the "ping-ponging" that the last Volvo S80 I drove did. It makes lane changes normally. If you have it set for 70mph and approach a car doing 65, it will make a suggestion on the screen to pass, and you use the turn signal to confirm. It makes the same suggestions to move you over to an exit lane, then follows the ramp off. It is wild to watch in person, but have to admit it worked okay. Just outside of Portland, it dealt with some stop and go traffic and then made the change to a different freeway all on its own. Crazy. Eventually you'll have the option to let it make lane changes without confirmation. It will take me awhile to wrap my brain around that.

Overall round trip was something like 320 miles. Supercharging was included when I got the car, so my energy/fuel costs were zero, but otherwise would cost about $16 for 300 miles of range. Cruising speed was around 73mph or so for most of the trip, and I figured out my efficiency was equivalent to about 95mpg. A RWD with the stock 18" wheels would do better, but this still seems pretty good as weather was wet and windy to Portland. Anyhow, we (the car and I) are still learning.

breld

@tifighter - that is super cool. Thanks for sharing.

I had thought the supercharging was only included with the Model S's - was that something you negotiated for?

stickguy

Not saving much. Our Jetta would have used maybe $18 in gas, and not need any stops.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

Not saving much. Our Jetta would have used maybe $18 in gas, and not need any stops.

Good comparison!

tifighter

stickguy said:

Not saving much. Our Jetta would have used maybe $18 in gas, and not need any stops.

I'm curious what kind of mpg and $/gal you are seeing. This seems to be pretty hard to replicate in my area.

Incidentally, if I charged at home, the same 300 miles would cost me $5.60.

tifighter

breld said:

@tifighter - that is super cool. Thanks for sharing.

I had thought the supercharging was only included with the Model S's - was that something you negotiated for?

Supercharging was included for the performance model through mid-September.

stickguy

RUG is about $2.60 right now. And on a highway run fron DE to NC last week it pulled 43. So obviously if you are pumping PUG in a higher cost area and getting 30 the math is different.

I was mostly surprised it cost so much to charge up.

tifighter

Now I get it. Check out our RUG prices-


I'd say 43mpg is better than most would get, but at our local prices, that would be around $24.30. At 30 mpg, more like $34.90. And something in a comparable performance category would be PUG, and lower mpg.

But no doubt, they charge for the convenience of supercharging. It costs money to build an infrastructure from scratch.

xwesx

tifighter said:

But no doubt, they charge for the convenience of supercharging. It costs money to build an infrastructure from scratch.

Yes, but still pretty darn cheap. As you noted, you might be able to travel in an ICE vehicle for about the same cost, but not if you want to get comparable on all specs (or more of them, anyway). The PNW is a great place for cheap electricity, too.

Mr_Shiftright

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well the coils on a rotary work a lot harder than they do on a normal ICE engine--so yeah, every 30K, just throw 'em out and get new ones.

Cool....I'll stop throwing my 2 cents out there.

Two cents always welcome.

Well we couldn't reach a deal. I offered them $500 over the highest retail price guide and they wanted $1400 over high book.

So they can keep it, especially since it will need some upgrades.

Too bad, nice car but I suspect the Subaru dealer doesn't really know what RX-8s are all about (good AND bad). These are generally 100K engines, tops, and this one is all-original at 115K.

It's not like people are lining up to buy these cars.

I guess if he sits on it long enough some starry-eyed kid will pay him more.

The search goes on!

stickguy

What were those 2 $ figures? I’m guessing you were more than $900 apart?

Mr_Shiftright

I offered $6000 OTD. They wanted $7000. Retail book is $5,200 "dealer price". So my offer was $5550 + T &L.

So he wanted like $6450 + T &L. Then when they added $180 in "doc fees" I really got ticked off. The car's tags are up to date.

Car had cheap brake pads installed and original plug wires, so in addition to PPI I had to take care of those things.

I bet that with a more amiable dealer we would have struck a deal.

Here's one with a sunroof and about 80,000 (!!) fewer miles that I'm sure could be had for $7K + tax. Upgraded trim level, too. Might have to peek at that one.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/d/2004-mazda-rx-8-clean-title/6736770385.html

qbrozen

what did the PPI tell you?

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

I offered $6000 OTD. They wanted $7000. Retail book is $5,200 "dealer price". So my offer was $5550 + T &L.

So he wanted like $6450 + T &L. Then when they added $180 in "doc fees" I really got ticked off. The car's tags are up to date.

Car had cheap brake pads installed and original plug wires, so in addition to PPI I had to take care of those things.

I bet that with a more amiable dealer we would have struck a deal.

Here's one with a sunroof and about 80,000 (!!) fewer miles that I'm sure could be had for $7K + tax. Upgraded trim level, too. Might have to peek at that one.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/d/2004-mazda-rx-8-clean-title/6736770385.html

Hard to believe that is only worth $1500 on a trade, tops.
4 calculated owners per Autocheck.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

what did the PPI tell you?

PPI was pretty good. Nothing immediately needed. Great tires.

The problem is that the RX-8 is a hand grenade with a loose pin. One has to remain very sober with a car like this. It makes every "10 cars you should never buy" list.

Which is such a shame, as it had great potential.

As Q points out, if you get buried in one of these, there is no bail out---market value is just nil.

graphicguy

@Mr_Shiftright ....well, I think you threw all the money at the dealer, and then some.

You may get a call from them somewhere down the line to come back in.

But, now you know where the skeletons are buried with an RX8. I’ve seen quite a few with fewer miles. You probably could find another one you like even more.

I do agree that the dealer has no clue what he has sitting on his lot. Something tell me they way overpaid for it and are now trying to dig themselves out.

I wouldn’t be afraid of an RX 7 or an RX8. As long as you know what the pitfalls could be, you’re ahead of the game.

qbrozen

hey, worst case, you can always drop a v8 in it. ;b

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah that's what I think, too. They really knew nothing about the car.

The trick is to NOT READ owner's reports, like this one:

"This might sound hard to believe after all the bad things I have mentioned, but I have driven my RX-8 for almost 27000 miles with only one issue; a bad power steering harness. The way I achieved this was by saving $1000 or so dollars beyond the purchase price of my car to buy a number of things that would help with many of the aforementioned issues.

(08/03/17 edit): Since I first wrote this article, I have come across a number of issues with my RX8: fuel pump failure, MAF failure, clutch pedal broke, clutch hose leaking, VDI solenoid failure, SSV solenoid connector lost connection, and a broken wire to my 3rd brake light caused all kinds of warning lights on the dash and I lost all my brake lights. "

corvette

Mazda's flagship car!

Have you ruled out a G37 coupe? I replaced the sunroof drain plug in my G yesterday and vacuumed out the floorpan and carpet with a wet/dry vac. I put some Damp Rid in there to make sure it's completely dry. I'll lay the carpet back down and put everything back together in a day or two. I hope I never have to do the similar one on the driver's side, but it was not nearly as difficult a repair as I had expected.

Mr_Shiftright

I am quite tempted by that car as well, but haven't driven one. What tickled me about the Mazda was the responsive throttle. It seemed very eager.

I like "eagerness" in a car--that's my drug. It doesn't have to be fast, but it has to be ...um..."crisp".

jpp75

I don't love the color on this C30 but as I told @michaell and @breld today you can't really get picky with color on these.

Hoping I can get some time away from work one evening to go check it out.

https://www.rnbcar.com/2009_Volvo_C30_Denver_CO_24353163.veh

ab348

qbrozen said:

hey, worst case, you can always drop a v8 in it. ;b

Heh. There is a RX-7 here owned by an acquaintance of mine that has had that done to it.

tbirdmarco

T fighter, nice on the first road trip and your Tesla model three enjoyed reading all about it sounds like a cool cool car, I am liking them the more and more I hear and read about them, have to sit in my aunts friends the next time and actually ask her which one she got only saw two weekends ago from the outside we were in a rush so couldn’t sit in it or anything. Corvette glad you got the sunroof and things sorted out on the G 37

tbirdmarco

JPP hope you  can go and look at that car this week

corvette

Mr_Shiftright said:

I am quite tempted by that car as well, but haven't driven one. What tickled me about the Mazda was the responsive throttle. It seemed very eager. I like "eagerness" in a car--that's my drug. It doesn't have to be fast, but it has to be ...um..."crisp".

I haven’t driven an RX-8, however, coming from a Mustang GT, I am super impressed with the eagerness of the G37. The eagerness is there even at low RPMs, and it doesn’t feel like a car with a twitchy throttle, just like it wants to go. By contrast, the Mustang (also with an automatic) felt flat-footed at times. 

stickguy

I drove a 6 speed G couple some years ago (10 maybe?) when a guy I worked with bought one. Not sure I would call it crisp (or eager). More like brutish, in a muscle car sort of way. Quite the hot rod.

Mr_Shiftright

That could work. Slim pickins for a manual transmission G37 in my neighborhood. The data-entry monkeys are still plugging the term "manual" into auto trans car ads. I saw about 3 of those today. The few that were manuals were all salvage cars. Car shopping is exhausting

stickguy

here you go. Short hop home for you from NJ. Eyeball test verified to have 3 pedals, as God intended. though shows a bump on the carfax

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/752253498/overview/

and if you want something with just a touch more "style"

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/752913929/overview/

there were actually a fair number of these not far from me. so they exist.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm sure one will show up near me the day after I buy something else

I like that NJ one--I don't care too much about a CARFAX bump if the price is right. It doesn't matter so much with older cars.

stickguy

I'm willing to pop over and romp on it for you. If it ever stops raining.

tbirdmarco

 Mr. shift right, sorry to hear the car you were looking at didn’t work out. Wasn’t meant to be what you said, keep on looking the search continues. 

tbirdmarco

 Shifty, you have to come to stick guys neck of the woods like when he posted on the G 37 manuals. 

28firefighter

I have absolutely no need for this and my wife would kill me, but I want it: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-bmw-330i-zhp-9/

Mr_Shiftright

"You can't always get
What you want
You can't always get
What you want
No you can't always get
What you want
But if you try sometimes
Well you might find
You get what you need"

(Stones, Rolling, The)

ab348

I dunno, Shifty... if you are not scared by having a car that has some ongoing, uh, needs, what about a Jag XK? Early 2000s models are probably in the range you are looking at.

I was reading an online history of Jaguar this morning which is why that is on my mind. There are some horror stories about what Ford found after they spent over $2 billion to buy it. This is my favorite:

"Shortly after he had arrived at Jaguar, Nick Scheele went to the water booth at the test track, where cars were tested for water leaks and found new cars scoring in the 90s. That seemed good according to USA practice, where results were scored on a scale of 100, but the Test Engineer pointed out that at Jaguar, the score meant a vehicle had 90 leaks!"

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

I have absolutely no need for this and my wife would kill me, but I want it: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-bmw-330i-zhp-9/

I'm really pleased to see that price.

In comparison, my car is a coupe, 3 years newer, but 35K more miles. My car has a leather steering wheel, instead of alcantara, though. Otherwise, identical. My black kidneys are OEM gloss black, not the cheap matte ones on this car. My car also has an OEM short shift kit (with a different stick/knob).

His description and pictures of the interior/exterior show almost the same wear as mine, as well.
Looks nice, though I'm not a fan of tinted windows. I seriously doubt they used OEM parts to re-do the cooling system, but I guess anything is possible.

Not a giant fan of buying a car that the owner has only had for one year.

Hope he gets over $10K!!