Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

I would take a 2 year sign and drive at that on an SEL. though it’s probably stripped (no roof I’m sure). The ones I saw were a lot higher, but I usually check 36 months.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

The Escape I posted is a darned good deal. Seems to be an anomaly since I can't find more than one at that price. All others are quite a bit more. Also one Edge SEL with a $35k sticker for $310 at 24/15.

BTW, with that certificate I got, looks like I could get into a $36k Envision for about $300/mo for 36/15. That would be a good deal relative to MSRP. It is FWD, though. AWD adds about $30/mo. Encores are still cheap, but too small for her.

Nope, not seeing many good deals, which seems odd for November, no?

I think the not so great deals are going to be the new normal. Residuals are getting lower (more realistic) and interest rates (money factors) aren't next to zero anymore. I think we are going to see a good deal as anything slightly below average.

corvette

boomchek said:

Congrats, Shifty! Looks like 32 punches for the year and pennsfan83 was the only punch in October and you're the only punch in November, so far.

Is this the group's count for the year?

Yes. 

qbrozen

stickguy said:

I would take a 2 year sign and drive at that on an SEL. though it’s probably stripped (no roof I’m sure). The ones I saw were a lot higher, but I usually check 36 months.

yes, no roof. And cloth guts. Weird, I thought SEL meant leather and roof. With more searching, I located an Escape SE with Sync 3 and roof added. $30k msrp for $260/mo 36/15. And its blue, her fave. 0.86% payment relative to MSRP is pretty good.

28firefighter

I'm pretty sure you have to step up to the Titanium to get leather standard - roof is (or at least, was) an option at all trim levels.

corvette

Does anyone else get annoyed when a modern car review mentions “keyless entry” when they actually mean it has a smart key and/or a keyless ignition? Smart keys have made it a misleading term. Remote keyless entry was available on Buicks and Cadillacs in the early 1990s and on the Nissan Sentra in 1996. 

stickguy

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

I would take a 2 year sign and drive at that on an SEL. though it’s probably stripped (no roof I’m sure). The ones I saw were a lot higher, but I usually check 36 months.

yes, no roof. And cloth guts. Weird, I thought SEL meant leather and roof. With more searching, I located an Escape SE with Sync 3 and roof added. $30k msrp for $260/mo 36/15. And its blue, her fave. 0.86% payment relative to MSRP is pretty good.

That would work fo me. Even cheaper since I can lower the miles. Especially nice if not black guts.

kyfdx

corvette said:

Does anyone else get annoyed when a modern car review mentions “keyless entry” when they actually mean it has a smart key and/or a keyless ignition? Smart keys have made it a misleading term. Remote keyless entry was available on Buicks and Cadillacs in the early 1990s and on the Nissan Sentra in 1996. 

I think keyless entry means you don't need to press the fob to enter.
If the key is in your proximity, you just grab the door handle and it opens.

That's different from remote entry.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

qbrozen said:

The Escape I posted is a darned good deal. Seems to be an anomaly since I can't find more than one at that price. All others are quite a bit more. Also one Edge SEL with a $35k sticker for $310 at 24/15.

BTW, with that certificate I got, looks like I could get into a $36k Envision for about $300/mo for 36/15. That would be a good deal relative to MSRP. It is FWD, though. AWD adds about $30/mo. Encores are still cheap, but too small for her.

Nope, not seeing many good deals, which seems odd for November, no?

I think the not so great deals are going to be the new normal. Residuals are getting lower (more realistic) and interest rates (money factors) aren't next to zero anymore. I think we are going to see a good deal as anything slightly below average.

Exactly. Lots of folks are surprised at the cost of a new lease, compared to the one they had from 3 years ago.

But, if you research hard enough (or let apps like Honcker do it for you), deals are still out there.

1% of MSRP is going to get harder and harder.

stickguy

I found same car. Got on it what I need. But comes up at $284 or so with first payment only DAS. still not bad for what you get. Might stop and scope one out.

suydam

xwesx said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well, this was a somewhat rare car, so I had to violate my rule of always buying in your own zip code/

I would never EVER break that rule!

Apparently you’ve never lived in the country.

henryn

nyccarguy said:

My mind is now somewhat at ease. I called my All State Agent. I told him what happened. I told him that my vehicle was not damaged and that I'm not filing a claim. He told me I did everything I'm supposed to do. He told me that if they try and file a claim that he will notify me. He told me I have nothing to worry about and to have a Happy Thanksgiving. I will of course keep you guys in the loop as to what is going on. Thanks for all of your help, support, and input. It really means A LOT.

I’m rather surprised your agent didn’t tell you to file a police report. Back around 1996 or 97 I was involved in a really strange car accident. At the time I had a very nice 1990 Cadillac Deville that I had recently picked up as a one owner with only 54k miles. I was living in a subdivision and was headed home about 8:30 p.m. or so, full dark. The back entrance to the subdivision was off of a narrow two lane road, no street lights. I made the left turn into the subdivision and felt a thump just as I cleared the intersection. My first thought was that I had run over something, so I pulled over and got out to look.

I couldn’t see any objects in the road, except over against the far curb was a car bumper. Just laying there, up against the far curb. No way I ran over that. But I looked again, and then looked back at my Caddy, which was – surprise! Surprise! – missing the rear bumper!

I’m standing there, dumbfounded, looking back and forth between the bumper and the rear of my car, when this young man pulls up and gets out of his car. Seems he was following me and saw what happened. And he was nice enough to turn around and come back to tell me what he saw. A car coming from the opposite direction, with no lights on, hit the rear end of my car and knocked off the bumper. I never saw the car, the young man who was traveling behind me said he never saw it until it hit me. And it never swerved, or slowed down, just kept on going.

I got his name and number as a witness, went home and called my insurance company. They told me to file a police report, right away, just in case the other drive filed some completely bogus report, after he sobered up.

The only bad thing about all of this, my car had a water leak into the trunk after that. After 4 different attempts, by two different body shops, I gave up and sold the car. Every time it rained, the trunk got wet inside.

ab348

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

I would take a 2 year sign and drive at that on an SEL. though it’s probably stripped (no roof I’m sure). The ones I saw were a lot higher, but I usually check 36 months.

yes, no roof. And cloth guts. Weird, I thought SEL meant leather and roof. With more searching, I located an Escape SE with Sync 3 and roof added. $30k msrp for $260/mo 36/15. And its blue, her fave. 0.86% payment relative to MSRP is pretty good.

What engine do you get with one of those?

qbrozen

stickguy said:

I found same car. Got on it what I need. But comes up at $284 or so with first payment only DAS. still not bad for what you get. Might stop and scope one out.

Just made me think of something ... I went back in and corrected my current vehicles, which means removing my Ford. Payments on the Fords went up.

BUT, I think I may still be eligible, regardless of what Honcker thinks.

edit: haha. I went back in and re-added the Ford as a 3rd vehicle with a lease expiration of Oct 2018, and the prices dropped back down again.

Drivingfool

Prefer Lyft myself, they were awesome last year in Chicago!
Shifty, congrats on the new purchase.
Found a couple good car washes not too far away. Took mine through the $5.00 where the guy guides you onto the track and then sprays/brushes the vehicle. Have a drive to vacuum area afterwards and they have detailing services. The other place closer is where I'm taking the Versa either this afternoon or tomorrow morning before we split. $35 complete detail, wash& hand wax, on Tuesdays and Wednesdays which is just perfect. Her vehicle is beyond filthy and at home, more expensive and might not get the time to get it done in the next few days. Sure it might get a bit dirty driving up & back but at least it'll get a fresh coat of wax, they'll clean the wheels and vacuum the interior. Last time my guy came and did all four was almost a year ago as he no longer answers my texts. So grabbing this opportunity while I can and be done with it. The wife and kids never think to get this service done and wait it seems till I ask for the keys. After that, am finally done here, my credit cards a bit tired now. Stopped at dollar place to get a couple last minute stuff, tongs and plastic drinking glasses in a few sizes that are all dishwasher safe. Totally unexpected by her and she's very grateful and told me I've done more than enough and no more. So, I'm a parent that listens and will stop, for now!!
Tires Plus did the rotation but bitched about doing a balancing check due to time issues though they weren't that busy. That can actually wait till I get home anyways but the rotation had to be done, like today. Told me an hour and a half wait but was done by the 45 minute mark. The run flats are holding up well and now have almost 25K on them. They hold their air pressures nicely with no issues and a re-balancing wouldn't have hurt one bit as it's all interstate home first on the turnpike and then the Sawgrass Expresway for a few miles. Will leave at noon or so tomorrow and be home within a couple hours. It's 188.5 miles, door to door.

The Sandman/Driving Fool

henryn

When I tried the new model Escape, 4 or 5 years back, I did not fit. No headroom, very short. I rather liked the older model (2011 and previous), my ex-wife owned one for a few years. Good for running around town, hauling groceries and assorted junk. Not so good as a road car though. Neither quiet nor comfortable for long stretches. The newer model is probably better on the road (if you fit).

stickguy

Last time I drove one, thought it had lots of headroom. Odd. And they vine with the 1.5t engine, though top models can have the 2.0t

Drivingfool

Q, why do you have the Land Rover and the Town & Country? Seems like one would be enough or if you're trying to keep her miles down which I suspect, might be time for a smallish cuv. Too bad the Encore is too small for her because they do drive nicely, we have a few at work and I try to grab one if we're moving it somewhere. If I had one as my d d, I'd be o k with it to be honest as I like the size. The Escape well, meh to be honest. The Edge is a much nicer vehicle really.
Wish I could also have a toy fun vehicle that I could swap in and out with so I could keep the Golf also for a long period of time. Something small also would be great, maybe even a small drop top. Maybe someday, but with the big life change I want to make, best to keep one vehicle at the moment.

The Sandman/Driving Fool

nyccarguy

The circus has begun. I got an email from ALLSTATE. Logged into "My Account."
Description: Rear End Accident - insured rear ended other party

Drivingfool

Sat down last night and was looking at my overall finances to see how I could do this move if I had to just on me. Never realized how much the credit cards have approved me for on credit but approaches just at $100K. Think a few of them would inch that up if I asked them to which is nice to know. With my IRA's and cash lying around plus my stocks and other assets, could buy something outright but would never do that. Really need to either sell the other house or have the wife participate so a move could be done very seamlessly and simultaneously. Would hate to take out another mortgage but would do a small one if need be and pay it off somewhat early.
The kid's builder was Pulte, Lennar is also here in the area and just left the model I'd, we'd, get and it's a one story, about 1900 square feet and going for around $260K or so give or take. All depends on what options are added and would probably add a few since this'll be the last property I ever buy. If I can get what they're saying I can for our current property, thinking we could bank $100K, give or take. I just need some help from the wife to actually do this and if not, she'd need to just buy me out and pay me half so I can get 'er done. Up to her actually but I do want to move, that much has become crystal clear over this past week or so. Am finally ready to make that last life change and be done with it. Then go into retirement and see what we both want to do, go or see. That's another big conversation that needs to happen also. What next???
It's also a 4/2 but a more traditional layout which she likes. I like that the kitchen/dining/family room are like one great room and one uses furniture to define spaces. It also has the much wanted/needed island just like the kid has. Hers is big, the one in the model I like is one stool size smaller and again, think the wife would prefer. Has a room up front with windows which would work as her designated office plus another room which I'd make mine. There'd be a 4th bedroom for when/if any of the kids want to come sleep/visit. Has the 2-car garage and the laundry area with that inside but the sink in the garage. I like it a tad more than what my oldest got to be honest but either would definitely work. Going with what my kid got would just give her a bigger office and a longer great room, the house I prefer has a wider great room. Potato, potatoe...tomato, tomatoe!
Nice to be excited about something as it's been a long long time since I have been. Time to stop always focusing on how good or bad I feel. This could be something really really positive for me, us!! A move might just be what we need and time frame would be just about 11 months from now.

The Sandman/Driving Fool

stickguy

Time to file complaint charging him with hitting you while stopped.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

Oh, come on, a Regal GS looks to have some amazing seats. And the overall package certainly puts a far more expensive 328xi or C300 to shame.

I'm pretty sure it would not lease well no matter what, though. At least not on a 24-mo term.

I've never been a fan of FWD(or FWD based AWD) in anything bigger than a Golf. I'll grant that the Regal is a decent car, but it isn't even remotely close to a car I'd consider owning.

roadburner

graphicguy said:

That’s crazy! If his insurance company told HIM to call you, he knows they aren’t taking him too seriously.

Back when I was in District Court, I'd have a parent come to the clerk's office asking to take out an Emergency Custody Petition. This usually happened on a Friday and was most always a thinly veiled attempt attempt to screw around with the other parent's court ordered custody/visitation. The petitioner would invariably claim that a worker at the Cabinet or Families and Children(CFC) told them to file the petition. Yeah, right. We all knew if CFC didn't file the petition then CFC thought it wasn't credible and in actuality had told the petitioner that they could ask or Emergency Custody but CFC wasn't getting involved.

Michaell

Drivingfool said:

Sat down last night and was looking at my overall finances to see how I could do this move if I had to just on me. Never realized how much the credit cards have approved me for on credit but approaches just at $100K. Think a few of them would inch that up if I asked them to which is nice to know. With my IRA's and cash lying around plus my stocks and other assets, could buy something outright but would never do that. Really need to either sell the other house or have the wife participate so a move could be done very seamlessly and simultaneously. Would hate to take out another mortgage but would do a small one if need be and pay it off somewhat early.
The kid's builder was Pulte, Lennar is also here in the area and just left the model I'd, we'd, get and it's a one story, about 1900 square feet and going for around $260K or so give or take. All depends on what options are added and would probably add a few since this'll be the last property I ever buy. If I can get what they're saying I can for our current property, thinking we could bank $100K, give or take. I just need some help from the wife to actually do this and if not, she'd need to just buy me out and pay me half so I can get 'er done. Up to her actually but I do want to move, that much has become crystal clear over this past week or so. Am finally ready to make that last life change and be done with it. Then go into retirement and see what we both want to do, go or see. That's another big conversation that needs to happen also. What next???
It's also a 4/2 but a more traditional layout which she likes. I like that the kitchen/dining/family room are like one great room and one uses furniture to define spaces. It also has the much wanted/needed island just like the kid has. Hers is big, the one in the model I like is one stool size smaller and again, think the wife would prefer. Has a room up front with windows which would work as her designated office plus another room which I'd make mine. There'd be a 4th bedroom for when/if any of the kids want to come sleep/visit. Has the 2-car garage and the laundry area with that inside but the sink in the garage. I like it a tad more than what my oldest got to be honest but either would definitely work. Going with what my kid got would just give her a bigger office and a longer great room, the house I prefer has a wider great room. Potato, potatoe...tomato, tomatoe!
Nice to be excited about something as it's been a long long time since I have been. Time to stop always focusing on how good or bad I feel. This could be something really really positive for me, us!! A move might just be what we need and time frame would be just about 11 months from now.

The Sandman/Driving Fool

The house we are currently in was built by Lennar almost 3 years ago. We both really like it.

Would rather have had your pricing, however.

cdnpinhead

suydam said:

Apparently you’ve never lived in the country.

It's a joke, son (as they say). He's driven cars back to AK from all over the U.S. on various occasions.

If I'm looking for a particular (new) car and it's only available for the right money out of state, that's where I'll buy it.

28firefighter

roadburner said:

graphicguy said:

That’s crazy! If his insurance company told HIM to call you, he knows they aren’t taking him too seriously.

Back when I was in District Court, I'd have a parent come to the clerk's office asking to take out an Emergency Custody Petition. This usually happened on a Friday and was most always a thinly veiled attempt attempt to screw around with the other parent's court ordered custody/visitation. The petitioner would invariably claim that a worker at the Cabinet or Families and Children(CFC) told them to file the petition. Yeah, right. We all knew if CFC didn't file the petition then CFC thought it wasn't credible and in actuality had told the petitioner that they could ask or Emergency Custody but CFC wasn't getting involved.

This particular set of manipulations of the system is what really burned me out on Family Law when I was in school. I couldn't stand to see kids weaponized.

qbrozen

roadburner said:

I've never been a fan of FWD(or FWD based AWD) in anything bigger than a Golf. I'll grant that the Regal is a decent car, but it isn't even remotely close to a car I'd consider owning.

I never drove one, but according to an MT review, it is actually rear-biased AWD. That's not typical for a FWD-based car. I don't rule out anything without actually driving it.

qbrozen

henryn said:

When I tried the new model Escape, 4 or 5 years back, I did not fit. No headroom, very short. I rather liked the older model (2011 and previous), my ex-wife owned one for a few years. Good for running around town, hauling groceries and assorted junk. Not so good as a road car though. Neither quiet nor comfortable for long stretches. The newer model is probably better on the road (if you fit).

We had one for our 2-week tour out west a couple of years back. I didn't particularly care for it, but fit just fine and had no comfort problems during our 1800 miles with it. The boss has to like it, not me.

qbrozen

Drivingfool said:

Q, why do you have the Land Rover and the Town & Country? Seems like one would be enough or if you're trying to keep her miles down which I suspect, might be time for a smallish cuv.

The LR2 is a smallish CUV.
And, yes, she drives A LOT and we'd rather not have her "use up" a $48k minivan in just a few years. I believe we are at about 4.5 years with the van and have something like 55k miles on that. Plus the 50k'ish miles she has put on the LR in the past 3 yrs.

sda

nyccarguy said:

The circus has begun. I got an email from ALLSTATE. Logged into "My Account." Description: Rear End Accident - insured rear ended other party

That's not a good start.  Wishing you the best with that.  Have a great Thanksgiving.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Time to file complaint charging him with hitting you while stopped.

Exactly. You did tell your agent you were stopped, right? He pulled out into you. Pretty simple, at least that's how you made it sound at first.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

I never drove one, but according to an MT review, it is actually rear-biased AWD. That's not typical for a FWD-based car. I don't rule out anything without actually driving it.

I do when it's over 190" long.

roadburner

I was building an X1 on the BMW USA sight and found something encouraging- not only can you delete the hole in the roof but you receive a $1,150 credit for doing so. Yay!

boomchek

corvette said:

boomchek said:

Congrats, Shifty! Looks like 32 punches for the year and pennsfan83 was the only punch in October and you're the only punch in November, so far.

Is this the group's count for the year?

Yes. 

You can add a backdated punch for me for February. I bought an 01 CRV as a winter beater for a short time before I sold it again.

qbrozen

roadburner said:

qbrozen said:

I never drove one, but according to an MT review, it is actually rear-biased AWD. That's not typical for a FWD-based car. I don't rule out anything without actually driving it.

I do when it's over 190" long.

I didn't even realize that. So it compares to a 5-series/E-class. Even more of a bargain.

roadburner

On the Jeep side of things, my wife now says that she likes the Trailhawk Elite better than she thought she would. The downside is that we can't find one optioned the way we want- most all have the $1,495 hole in the rood as well as a $655 charge for painting the aluminum wheels black. Meh. Only the Cherokees with every box ticked get the audio upgrade that I DO want. Looks like no Black Friday purchases for the RB family.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

Time to file complaint charging him with hitting you while stopped.

Exactly. You did tell your agent you were stopped, right? He pulled out into you. Pretty simple, at least that's how you made it sound at first.

I was stopped, then he decided to make a right turn. That's just was put because THEY called ALL STATE 1st and filed a claim. I spoke to my agent and a claims representative. I sent pictures in to ALL STATE and told them exactly what happened. We shall see how it plays out. I KNOW what happened.

nyccarguy

I have noticed MINI can't be leased through honcker, nor do our hosts have access to their lease numbers

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

I have noticed MINI can't be leased through honcker, nor do our hosts have access to their lease numbers

Untrue! We have the MINI numbers for November. Head over to the thread and post your question.

nyccarguy

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:

I have noticed MINI can't be leased through honcker, nor do our hosts have access to their lease numbers

Untrue! We have the MINI numbers for November. Head over to the thread and post your question.

I STAND CORRECTED

stickguy

If I could get the house sandy described up here for that price, I would have already ordered one.

stickguy

RB, if you want such an oddball configuration, why not just order exactly what you want? Not like you are in a hurry.

stickguy

I saw a highlander in a parking lot today. What. A boat. Off the list. The GC is pretty big too but does not look so bulky.

xwesx

stickguy said:

I saw a highlander in a parking lot today. What. A boat. Off the list. The GC is pretty big too but does not look so bulky.

Yeah, those things are huge nowadays. I have to do a double-take when I see a first generation Highlander, which was originally introduced as Toyota's Outback alternative. The first three generations of Outback are small compared to current, but nothing like the original Highlander compared to its current generation!

roadburner

stickguy said:

RB, if you want such an oddball configuration, why not just order exactly what you want? Not like you are in a hurry.

I agree; we were just hoping to get a deal during all the holiday specials.

ab348

Drivingfool said:

Sat down last night and was looking at my overall finances to see how I could do this move if I had to just on me. Never realized how much the credit cards have approved me for on credit but approaches just at $100K. Think a few of them would inch that up if I asked them to which is nice to know. With my IRA's and cash lying around plus my stocks and other assets, could buy something outright but would never do that. Really need to either sell the other house or have the wife participate so a move could be done very seamlessly and simultaneously. Would hate to take out another mortgage but would do a small one if need be and pay it off somewhat early.
The kid's builder was Pulte, Lennar is also here in the area and just left the model I'd, we'd, get and it's a one story, about 1900 square feet and going for around $260K or so give or take. All depends on what options are added and would probably add a few since this'll be the last property I ever buy. If I can get what they're saying I can for our current property, thinking we could bank $100K, give or take. I just need some help from the wife to actually do this and if not, she'd need to just buy me out and pay me half so I can get 'er done. Up to her actually but I do want to move, that much has become crystal clear over this past week or so. Am finally ready to make that last life change and be done with it. Then go into retirement and see what we both want to do, go or see. That's another big conversation that needs to happen also. What next???
The Sandman/Driving Fool

You indeed need to have a good conversation.

You're talking about splitting as a possibility. If you're serious and it is indeed a possibility I don't know why you'd need or want a 1900 sq ft 4/2 house just for you. But it's really none of my business.

pensfan83

@roadburner did any meaningful conversations happen with that X1 in Pittsburgh?

Drivingfool

Like I said earlier, think the Edge is a much better vehicle than the Escape and ain't that much larger to be honest. They drive nicely and folks seem to like them to. Guess some folks do drive a lot of miles/year. Doing right at 1300 right now but that should decrease once I no longer have the Hertz gig.

The Sandman/Driving Fool

Drivingfool

Getting bad vibes about the wife wanting to move anytime soon. This could actually go in another way than I was thinking but if they do, so be it. I'm no longer willing to live an unhappy life anymore because there's really no reason to. Being away this last week has shown me a lot as I've had plenty of time to think as she has no cable tv only Roku streaming stuff plus the few channels on my tablet through my cable company at home. So there's been plenty of time to think about life going forward and what I'd like to do and not do. Communication has always been an issue since day 1 and tired of being selfish when I want certain things.
Funny thing is we both want to be taken care of...only difference is she believes i should pay for everything and I think we should each put into the pot so to speak. "Ours" isn't a word she likes and she likes telling me "no" on most things which is an issue. Nothing anyone in here doesn't know about. But when one does all the compromising while the other tends to want total control, it never bodes well. I believe we're a team and nothing should be a one way street. But she feels it should be with me fitting every single bill which I'm no longer willing to do since we could do more with input from both. And I'm not saying it's got to be exactly "50/50" but it's got to be some multiple since she makes over 3 times what I do. Figure a "joint account" should be just that and not me maintaining it like now. Put the savings in my name only and got bitched at but I have to be smart here.
But have a feeling that I'll be up here in the Orlando area sooner than later...and alone, but that's really o k. Sometimes, things just play out and folks no longer want the same things in life. Just tired of always being unhappy going home because it's all so one-sided when it doesn't have to be. I'm so ready for a change, so no problem here to be honest!!

The Sandman/Driving Fool

Drivingfool

And yes, something that big just might not be what will be needed going forward. But again, I'm open at this point to almost anything to be honest. I just know that I can't just pick up and act as if there's no problem right now. And now that our oldest is no longer living home, it's not going to get any better. But that's o k as I truly think the book is in the last chapter and within pages of going back to the library. And right now when it does go back, putting my library card away for awhile. I've never ever lived alone and it's always been a big regret of my life, always! Best to be alone if being together is no longer working and the candle has definitely burnt out for me. I just want to be alone right now to figure out what I want next, bottom line to put it bluntly!!
Funny part is, I'm not really sad at all! Luckily we've got three great kids who know there are problems, found that out when I got sick. But the younger two seem to think I need to put in more of the effort while I think the oldest thinks it's just over and wants us both to be happy and says we're both not. She's lived it so I agree with her. Think the younger two want to place blame on someone, and that's me while the older one thinks that's ridiculous. We've just both changed and need to change the current situation. The blame game is just stupid really, relationships sometimes don't last forever and I think at 37 years, the light has finally burned out.

The Sandman/Driving Fool