Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

pensfan83

Pretty sure they make the Cruze in Lordstown, at least they did they last time I drove by the plant.

Mr_Shiftright

Quite foolhardy. At 150 mph, if one were to hit even something the size of a baseball, your life could be over.

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

I’m still amazed that in 2018, a big safety company like Volvo, still makes a backup camera optional. And has the gall to charge $995 for it!

I really fear for Volvo's life. I just don't see them around in 2-3 years.

au1994

stickguy said:

I’m still amazed that in 2018, a big safety company like Volvo, still makes a backup camera optional. And has the gall to charge $995 for it!

I know. I shopped the S60 when I got the X1 and was shocked that it wasn’t standard. It’s not even that great of a camera to boot. There were a couple of other surprises to me...power passenger seat is not standard nor are heated seats. That should be table stakes in the luxo-sport sedan game these days.

stickguy

The S60 had to cover the cheaper entry level market though. BMW does the same thing. A truly base 320i was pretty stripped. And they do sell cars down south, where you don’t need heated seats!

stickguy

Shifty, I thought Volvo was seeing sales trending Up? Plus got the Chinese money behind them now, and the entire model line is finally modern.

corvette

stickguy said:

I’m still amazed that in 2018, a big safety company like Volvo, still makes a backup camera optional. And has the gall to charge $995 for it!

Yeah. I thought backup cameras were mandated now? Volvo was really late in making stability control standard, too, compared to other luxury makes. 

ab348

pensfan83 said:

Pretty sure they make the Cruze in Lordstown, at least they did they last time I drove by the plant.

The Cruze sedan comes from Lordstown, the hatch from Mexico. If they want to continue the sedan I suppose they could transfer that to Mexico though I dunno if any annoucement has been made.

The future of the Volt will be interesting. There is likely to be some transfer of production out of Hamtramck as the Caddy CT6 is also made there and it isn't supposed to be going away. Maybe they shift it and the Volt to Lansing.

stickguy

Might be 2019 where they are finally standard. The new S60 has it, and I believe it’s now standard across the board.

28firefighter

FYI this is the source I saw that said all of the GM cars disappearing:
https://jalopnik.com/dead-the-cadillac-ct6-and-a-ton-of-other-gm-cars-1830656192 and then this https://jalopnik.com/general-motors-may-kill-the-chevrolet-volt-1830653844

The Volt article says they spoke with GM and they confirmed production is ending in March.

ab348

It may be true about the CT6 then. Typical GM, just when they get a vehicle correct, they kill it.

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

Paging @qbrozen to the White Courtesy Phone: https://www.volvocarswhiteplains.com/new/Volvo/2018-Volvo-S60-elmsford-ny-4fba7f9f0a0e0ae769831123d204b9b5.htm

Already communicating with them about that one and their Xcountry.

pensfan83

January's Detroit Auto Show should be a somber event. With this announcement and others like Audi, BMW, and Mercedes pulling out that's probably not organizers want as they transition the show to its new June date.

xwesx

corvette said:

28firefighter said:

Isn’t there medication out there to help with keeping “hood struts” up?

I've found that the cold weather decreases fluid circulation, leading to problems with struts getting up, or staying up.

Ugh. I know *all* about that!

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

Paging @qbrozen to the White Courtesy Phone:

https://www.volvocarswhiteplains.com/new/Volvo/2018-Volvo-S60-elmsford-ny-4fba7f9f0a0e0ae769831123d204b9b5.htm

Already communicating with them about that one and their Xcountry.

Just in case things DO work out there, the place isn't far from the Metro North Station. I also know it is a bit of a hike for you, but if we can make it work and you are rollin' solo I'd love to meet up and grab a slice before you hit the road! Keep us posted!

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

Shifty, I thought Volvo was seeing sales trending Up? Plus got the Chinese money behind them now, and the entire model line is finally modern.

Well maybe, but you do have to wonder about how the brand is so "under the radar" in the USA. I think China is their biggest market. They are going to gamble big on electric cars as well. I dunno--it's a crazy market to attempt to predict. I just wonder how much room there is for different brands.

corvette

28firefighter said:

FYI this is the source I saw that said all of the GM cars disappearing: https://jalopnik.com/dead-the-cadillac-ct6-and-a-ton-of-other-gm-cars-1830656192 and then this https://jalopnik.com/general-motors-may-kill-the-chevrolet-volt-1830653844 The Volt article says they spoke with GM and they confirmed production is ending in March.

Sounds like they’re taking a page out of the Ford playbook and killing off most of their sedans. 

fintail

I have some doubts about Volvo legitimately running in the black. Sure, sales are better, but R&D over the past several years must have cost an insane fortune. Lucky to have rich parents, I suppose. The parents might not care about profitability, maybe using the brand as a piece of pride. Some aspects of the parents would keep me from buying a new one.

Speaking of R&D, CT6 must have cost a bit to develop just to be dropped, although I guess we still might get the Chinese-made hybrid version that might have sold a few dozen units over the past year.

nyccarguy

fintail said:

I have some doubts about Volvo legitimately running in the black. Sure, sales are better, but R&D over the past several years must have cost an insane fortune. Lucky to have rich parents, I suppose. The parents might not care about profitability, maybe using the brand as a piece of pride. Some aspects of the parents would keep me from buying a new one.

Speaking of R&D, CT6 must have cost a bit to develop just to be dropped, although I guess we still might get the Chinese-made hybrid version that might have sold a few dozen units over the past year.

When I did the car control clinic over the summer, I was talking to one of the instructors (electrical engineer) about Volvos. He had an S90 as a press car to review and was LOOKING for things to nitpick and found NOTHING wrong with his test vehicle. No squeaks, shakes, or rattles. He measured body panel gaps with a micrometer and found them all to be consistently perfect. Now take that 1 of 2 ways; either the parent company MADE SURE every press car was beyond perfect or Volvo quality is damn good.

ab348

fintail said:

I have some doubts about Volvo legitimately running in the black. Sure, sales are better, but R&D over the past several years must have cost an insane fortune. Lucky to have rich parents, I suppose. The parents might not care about profitability, maybe using the brand as a piece of pride. Some aspects of the parents would keep me from buying a new one.

Speaking of R&D, CT6 must have cost a bit to develop just to be dropped, although I guess we still might get the Chinese-made hybrid version that might have sold a few dozen units over the past year.

The CT6 would never have been projected to sell in big numbers, or at least shouldn't have been, so I wonder about the entire business case for it. I did read a little while ago that they will still produce it in China for that market. Bizarre. You'd have to figure it could be produced alongside the other Cadillac models in Lansing.

GM announced some months ago that the Impala, Lacrosse and XTS would be going away. Impala and Lacrosse sales are down again, but I read today that XTS sales are up 24%.

I don't understand the popularity of Volvo among some on this site. I seldom see them on the roads locally, and they never seem to be discussed by people I know as a car they desire. They are just way, way below the radar. And I have never thought of them as a quality car in terms of dependability. Actually just the opposite. Maybe that's unfair, but it's what I have come to think over the years.

cdnpinhead

fintail said:

It's like Prius people with a little more money and ego.

I'm with you on the money part, but ego, not so much. That's why some call it a Pious.

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

nyccarguy said:

Paging @qbrozen to the White Courtesy Phone: https://www.volvocarswhiteplains.com/new/Volvo/2018-Volvo-S60-elmsford-ny-4fba7f9f0a0e0ae769831123d204b9b5.htm

Already communicating with them about that one and their Xcountry.

Just in case things DO work out there, the place isn't far from the Metro North Station. I also know it is a bit of a hike for you, but if we can make it work and you are rollin' solo I'd love to meet up and grab a slice before you hit the road! Keep us posted!

Their xcountry is gone. She is working up numbers on the s60. They actually have a grey over black that I think looks much better.

tifighter

Our Volvo has been as solid as the Acura it replaced. That said, my money and ego more recently went to another brand, so what do I know?

fintail

Oh, I think there's some Prius ego out there



Some of it might get coupled with stereotypical BMW mannerisms with the faster/pricier EV - hope I don't offend anyone, but them's the breaks, it's not all drivers

cdnpinhead said:

fintail said:

It's like Prius people with a little more money and ego.

I'm with you on the money part, but ego, not so much. That's why some call it a Pious.

fintail

The Germans have big fancy sedans, why can't we? That, and the Chinese market are probably all the justification needed by GM suits for the car. Seems like a very fine car, but maybe a hard sell in an insanely competitive and badge-conscious segment. The hybrid model is made in China, even for this market, I saw one with a Chinese VIN here.

I think Volvos are like Audis - new age ones are a lot less trouble-prone.

ab348 said:

The CT6 would never have been projected to sell in big numbers, or at least shouldn't have been, so I wonder about the entire business case for it. I did read a little while ago that they will still produce it in China for that market. Bizarre. You'd have to figure it could be produced alongside the other Cadillac models in Lansing.

GM announced some months ago that the Impala, Lacrosse and XTS would be going away. Impala and Lacrosse sales are down again, but I read today that XTS sales are up 24%.

I don't understand the popularity of Volvo among some on this site. I seldom see them on the roads locally, and they never seem to be discussed by people I know as a car they desire. They are just way, way below the radar. And I have never thought of them as a quality car in terms of dependability. Actually just the opposite. Maybe that's unfair, but it's what I have come to think over the years.

fintail

I wouldn't worry about the quality - it's not like most are made there, and even for those vehicles that are (the GM cars made there as well), at this point in the game, they are probably built under a microscope and inspected 1000 times before they leave the factory. Too much risk to unleash a shoddy product with an L prefix VIN. My doubts would be centered on the socio-politico actions of the organization who really controls all business (and benefits from all profit) there.

nyccarguy said:

When I did the car control clinic over the summer, I was talking to one of the instructors (electrical engineer) about Volvos. He had an S90 as a press car to review and was LOOKING for things to nitpick and found NOTHING wrong with his test vehicle. No squeaks, shakes, or rattles. He measured body panel gaps with a micrometer and found them all to be consistently perfect. Now take that 1 of 2 ways; either the parent company MADE SURE every press car was beyond perfect or Volvo quality is damn good.

corvette

nyccarguy said:

I have some doubts about Volvo legitimately running in the black. Sure, sales are better, but R&D over the past several years must have cost an insane fortune. Lucky to have rich parents, I suppose. The parents might not care about profitability, maybe using the brand as a piece of pride. Some aspects of the parents would keep me from buying a new one. Speaking of R&D, CT6 must have cost a bit to develop just to be dropped, although I guess we still might get the Chinese-made hybrid version that might have sold a few dozen units over the past year.

When I did the car control clinic over the summer, I was talking to one of the instructors (electrical engineer) about Volvos. He had an S90 as a press car to review and was LOOKING for things to nitpick and found NOTHING wrong with his test vehicle. No squeaks, shakes, or rattles. He measured body panel gaps with a micrometer and found them all to be consistently perfect. Now take that 1 of 2 ways; either the parent company MADE SURE every press car was beyond perfect or Volvo quality is damn good.

I think the European makes tend to focus on build quality more than reliability. That was definitely the case with the E90 I owned and its multiple dealer visits for the same electrical gremlin. 

corvette

My friend Warren Buffett has an XTS, before that he had a DTS. I think there was a Mercedes in there somewhere but at some point he had a Lincoln Town Car. So that’s at least three orphan cars he’s owned. 

tbirdmarco

 Did hear about the GM news on the news before, but I did hear about this all happening months ago so wasn’t news to me really. Pretty much Maggiore of car brands are doing it these days. 

tbirdmarco

 Very nice to see you guys should have the car before the end of the week. What color is leaving the fleet? 

tbirdmarco

 Will go with her independent local shop too, no quick two places here either too.  

cdnpinhead

corvette said:

I think the European makes tend to focus on build quality more than reliability.

I need some help here. How does build quality manifest itself as opposed to reliability?

Please forgive my ignorance.

Having reflected on this for a bit, I guess build quality has to do with how the thing looks and works for the first three weeks and reliability has to do with how it actually performs. Sign me up for the reliability bit.

If it don't go, chrome it.

qbrozen

CT volvo salesperson called a couple of times today. Offer was $375 on the white AWD one. I said no thanks.

NY dealer with the xcountry emailed and said he is working on the numbers and would get back to me. He didn't.

I actually think I could make that gray one in CT happen at $310, but the wife has yet to give the thumbs up on that.

Mr_Shiftright

nyccarguy said:

fintail said:

I have some doubts about Volvo legitimately running in the black. Sure, sales are better, but R&D over the past several years must have cost an insane fortune. Lucky to have rich parents, I suppose. The parents might not care about profitability, maybe using the brand as a piece of pride. Some aspects of the parents would keep me from buying a new one.

Speaking of R&D, CT6 must have cost a bit to develop just to be dropped, although I guess we still might get the Chinese-made hybrid version that might have sold a few dozen units over the past year.

When I did the car control clinic over the summer, I was talking to one of the instructors (electrical engineer) about Volvos. He had an S90 as a press car to review and was LOOKING for things to nitpick and found NOTHING wrong with his test vehicle. No squeaks, shakes, or rattles. He measured body panel gaps with a micrometer and found them all to be consistently perfect. Now take that 1 of 2 ways; either the parent company MADE SURE every press car was beyond perfect or Volvo quality is damn good.

If people bought cars strictly on "quality" the sales charts would look quite a bit different than they do!

Drivingfool

They said they had a fix for me to get back in here but as I expected, it failed, multiple times. So, I'm outta here folks. Has been a great run but it's getting just too hard to get in here and just ain't worth it no more.
Stay well folks and maybe we'll meet up one day. Warmest regards to all.

The Sandman/Driving Fool :@ Kilroy was here!!!

stickguy

seems kind of drastic, since everyone knows who you are. But, your call.

Good luck to you with your upcoming adventures.

fintail

A car can be beautifully made but a pain to live with - Rolls-Royce might be the best example. High assembly quality, the best materials, but it won't always be usable. On the flipside, a tupperware old Corolla might be built down to a price, but it will start every day for 20 years without complaint.

Many people will tolerate an extra visit here or there to a service bay for something that looks/feels/drives nice.

cdnpinhead said:

I need some help here. How does build quality manifest itself as opposed to reliability?

Please forgive my ignorance.

Having reflected on this for a bit, I guess build quality has to do with how the thing looks and works for the first three weeks and reliability has to do with how it actually performs. Sign me up for the reliability bit.

If it don't go, chrome it.

Drivingfool

Drove a Q50 today and it was "intoxicating" to say the least! Touch the accelerator and whoooossshhh, off ya go. Tried to pass a few slow drivers on the turnpike and it was effortless for this vehicle, plenty of torque down below, where it's needed to get off the ground. Can see why folks get tickets in these puppies!! Sheer driving excitement, the only way I can describe it. Hell, I want one!! But thinking, the petrol bills would just about kill me.
Definitely see why they sell so many of these things. One has to drive it to believe it. Wondering if the Q30 has some of the same low end grunt? If so, would be tempted to go give it a look see. Prefer the hatch body style of the 30 to be honest. Guessing it won't be like driving the 50, but might the 30 get some of that grunt I'm so fond of? All I want is a vehicle to move when I punch the gas peddle and get where I need to be. So much traffic down here but did notice St. Cloud had their fair share but the was due to all the construction on 192/441 over by the toll road old turnpike. Once that all ends, traffic should move rather quickly methinks.
Daughter stopped into the sales office of the other builder in her development tonight and asked about that model unit I'd like to buy. He said by a year from this December which is our time frame actually. As long as the internet is up & running when we move in, she'll have zero issues with her Turbo Tax gig. They like her and her work so won't be surprised if they ask her back for her 4th year in 2019/2020. Must have the upgrades but they've done a nice job and think I wouldn't change a thing actually. Lennar is the builder and the "Boca Raton" would be just perfect for us. A 4/2 with just around 1857 under air. Has more of a defined room concept that the wife prefers. The kid got an open great room design and just loves it. Got the island also but mine would be a tad smaller also, seems to fit the kitchen area much better.
Her shopping is all done and doesn't need much more. She took home a set of large plastic dishes and bowls the wife wanted gone and she was happy to have them. My credit card got a great workout there and now, just needs a couple of weeks to relax itself. Spoke with her tonight and she needs gutters. Told her to use one of the checks I left her, put her on my Wells Fargo accounts just in case. Told her not to stress, I'm giving her a $1000 loan with zero interest and can pay it off slowly to fit her budget. She's stressing about all the $ she laid out, and sure it was a large amount, but I've got her back on this. That's why I left her a couple of checks and will get her a debit card also, just in case. But even with this gesture, she's not happy as she wants to do it all on her own. Best that she takes my offer so the house won't get any damage to it. And hell, pay me back/don't pay me back, it's part of your inheritance from me and my dad. Take a lump sum then or, start using it now for any major purchases. Her vehicle is the 2009 Nissan Versa that has a few dents, does drive nicely but am sure, something big will eventually go wrong. Let me help if I can as it gives me joy to see her so happy!

The Sandman/Driving Fool/Kilroy

Drivingfool

Guess I really have no clue who I am anymore!!

Drivingfool

Must say, the build quality on our A3 is outstanding! No real issues yet except the two worn out batteries. Batteries die out early in our heat. Hell mine went out two weeks ago tomorrow! The new Interstate one is working fine!!

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

CT volvo salesperson called a couple of times today. Offer was $375 on the white AWD one. I said no thanks.

NY dealer with the xcountry emailed and said he is working on the numbers and would get back to me. He didn't.

I actually think I could make that gray one in CT happen at $310, but the wife has yet to give the thumbs up on that.

Just make sure you watch out for the dealer’s “conveyance fee.”  It’s a fancy word for doc fee here in CT.  You know the drill.  If they won’t take it away, just value your trade higher or get a lower selling price on the vehicle.

stickguy

nice thing about haggling on a lease. DAS and the payment are real easy to lock in!

roadburner

cdnpinhead said:

fintail said:

It's like Prius people with a little more money and ego.

I'm with you on the money part, but ego, not so much. That's why some call it a Pious.

The i3 Facebook group is a mixture of people like me who find the i3 interesting and fun(and own one or two gasoline engine performance cars) and the electric car zealots on their crusade to save the planet.
One member asked owners what they most disliked about the i3 and several of us said that we disliked being mistaken for eco-weenies.

stickguy

Sandy, the QX30 is basically the Mercedes GLA underneath. Same drivetrain. So since you drove one of those as a rental, you should know what to expect. But it will not be a hot rod like the Q50.

Drivingfool

Ah, yes, now I remember. Drove nice enough but super thirsty as I recall. Nice looking inside and out though. Around $30K at that time new/seeing more of them on used car lots now also. Seem some at phenomanal prices. Just a suggestion to see them out in the wild.

Michaell

Looking for help; widow trying to buy / lease a car but is not having any luck with dealers, at all.

Please be patient; it's a long post.

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/53390/general/x/recent-widow-trying-to-figure-out-what-car-to-buy-lease-without-getting-ripped-off#latest

@nyccarguy - she's in CT, so I'm wondering if you can maybe reach out via PM and see what you can do to help. I know how much the folks here love spending other people's money.

28firefighter

Jumped in with some questions. She’s ripe for an Infiniti lease, for sure, but don’t want to suggest it if her credit is trashed or is going to mile up a lease. 

Michaell

28firefighter said:

Jumped in with some questions. She’s ripe for an Infiniti lease, for sure, but don’t want to suggest it if her credit is trashed or is going to mile up a lease. 

Thanks - the RX had 11,000 miles on it, so I don't think she drives a lot of miles a year.

You'd think a Lexus dealer would be more solicitous with a multiple repeat customer. I'll admit my ire is raised, reading this.

I'd really like @nyccarguy to jump in and lend a hand, if possible. It sounds like she just needs some centering on the whole process, with someone who can be unemotional about the deal.

28firefighter

100% agree with you - I’m probably projecting a bit, but this one is really bothering me. 

tbirdmarco

 Driving fool, glad to hear from you. Yes hopefully you’ll meet up one day. Sooner than later, but have mentioned before I’m glad to hear everything is well with you and the daughter and family.