Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

tjc78

That’s too funny.... my wife has said similar.

I’m surprised no one wanted to play ball yesterday. Getting near the end of the month and I believe December isn’t a great month typically.

suydam

Depends. That’s when we got our Volt lease deal two years ago.

henryn

My last two purchases have been finalized via email. And with no games or last minute tricks in the finance office. This is with Mac Haik Ford here in Houston. My previous 2 trucks were purchased at Russell & Smith Ford, but they have changed management. The salesman I liked at R&S is gone, and the finance office is now crooked. Flat out bent.

The last time I encountered a salesman (actually a “closer” or “sales manager”, whatever) who couldn’t do basic math, after I corrected him about 3 times, I asked him how many times he was held back in the fourth grade for failing math. That was the end of negotiations, as you might expect.

stickguy

my current 2 cars were done entirely via online price requests and emails. I did not step inside either dealer until the deal was already set. The RDX we drove up to pick up, and the Elantra we went down to sign papers, and picked it up a week later (that one was a dealer trade). My Sonata was also done electronically, and we showed up for first time at dealer when we picked it up.

there are plenty of other dealers that we visit. A couple might have my picture up by the register, and a few I refuse to step foot back in. So it gets harder for a couple of brands! Especially if the wife is with me (she gets embarrassed if we have been in too many times).

Mr_Shiftright

Remember that deal on the Mazda RX-8, where I offered $6K out the door? They refused, so I walked, and then bought a Volvo C30 instead.

Now THAT dealer just e-mailed me with a "substantial price reduction! Contact us!"

Day late and a dollar short, Mr. Dealer.

"When one driver's door slams shut, another opens"

carnaught

So @shiftright, how do you respond to a situation like that?

benjaminh

Mr_Shiftright said:

Remember that deal on the Mazda RX-8, where I offered $6K out the door? They refused, so I walked, and then bought a Volvo C30 instead.

Now THAT dealer just e-mailed me with a "substantial price reduction! Contact us!"

Day late and a dollar short, Mr. Dealer.

"When one driver's door slams shut, another opens"

Speaking of the other door, how is the C30 working out so far?

Mr_Shiftright

carnaught said:

So @shiftright, how do you respond to a situation like that?

Oh I try to be civil, but I'll be sure to tell them that "thank you very much, I bought a so-and-so at the fair market price" (just twist the knife a little, you know...)

Power to the Buyers!

Mr_Shiftright

benjaminh said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Remember that deal on the Mazda RX-8, where I offered $6K out the door? They refused, so I walked, and then bought a Volvo C30 instead.

Now THAT dealer just e-mailed me with a "substantial price reduction! Contact us!"

Day late and a dollar short, Mr. Dealer.

"When one driver's door slams shut, another opens"

Speaking of the other door, how is the C30 working out so far?

We do the deal tomorrow and then I'll drive him back to his house to pick up all the spare parts with my truck. He's got a LOT of extra stuff, as in 7 extra wheels and tires, OEM parts taken off the car, etc. I might sell some of it off actually. I have to decide if I want to run 17" or 18" wheels in the future.

I think the RX-8 was a bit more exciting to drive but I'm more than pleased with my decision.

I didn't marry the ballerina, I married the yoga teacher.

Drivingfool

Think the worst part is when either side just asks or wants an unrealistic price for a vehicle. Folks need to be honest while negotiating and a deal can be struck. By waiting too long or dropping the price after the same too long period, a deal will never be made. In this case, the owner of the Volvo was ready to sell and thought the price offered was acceptable so, a deal was struck. Now, the Mazda guy comes back with a better deal but the timing has already passed because the buyer has already bought something else, and moved on.
He tried to outsmart the buyer but lost in the process. Don't matter how low the new price is, the deal won't be done. Best thing to do is say thanks, but have already bought such and such but thanks for letting me know. All the while having that smile on your face because you did win here, end of story.
Both dealers and buyers need to not try to outsmart themselves in any negotiation and this story just proves my point. Enjoy your new to you C30, it's a great little vehicle!!

The Sandman/Driving Fool

Drivingfool

Back to work tomorrow with mixed feelings. Will let the boss know that my time is almost up and not sure if I'm going to keep doing the 3 full days anymore. I have to see how I feel and just might stay at the imposed 24 hours for awhile if not two days of 20 hours, just don't know. Think it best I keep on going at least through April on days I think are acceptable according to my body telling me so. Maybe start a little later like 10 or so, just don't know quite yet, just need to work things out. Just know that I'm tired and am hurting the majority of the time. And that's the best I can do right now as I have no clue what the future will bring.
Just doing things one day at a time. And that's starting with changing our internet to the cable company with it's faster speed and lower price. Just need to get all the facts down and find out about any start-up costs so I can make the right decision.

The Sandman/Driving Fool

benjaminh

@Mr_Shiftright met his goal of getting an entertaining and cool car and staying out of debt. Nicely done!

We've gotten the loan on my wife's 2018 CR-V down to $10k, and if somehow we can pay an average of an extra 600 a month—on top of our regular $450 payment—we might actually own it free and clear by the end of next summer. We'll see....Great car so far. I'm really liking the CR-V, although I like driving my car better.

I managed to get close to the 1% goal for my TLX lease, but some of that was the luck of being there at the very last day of their sales period. Just crossed over 7000 miles already after only 4.5 months of having it. Right now I'm still thinking I'd like to keep it at the end of the lease, but then we'll have to start a new c.$18k loan. In other words, best case seems to be that I won't be out of car debt for about 6 years. Hmmm. Shifty may be on to something....

qbrozen

Same thing happened to us house shopping. We came across a bank-owned foreclosure. We offered FULL asking price. They came back and said "oh, we have other interested parties. please give us your BEST bid in the next 24 hours." We decided to purchase the other house we were considering since anymore money on the foreclosed house would be a mistake (it needed work, of course). Well, guess what happened to those other "interested parties"? Yeah, the bank overplayed their hand, begged us to come back to the table (which we refused of course), and wound up selling it at a later date for much less than we offered.

stickguy

benjaminh said:

@Mr_Shiftright met his goal of getting an entertaining and cool car and staying out of debt. Nicely done!

We've gotten the loan on my wife's 2018 CR-V down to $10k, and if somehow we can pay an average of an extra 600 a month—on top of our regular $450 payment—we might actually own it free and clear by the end of next summer. We'll see....Great car so far. I'm really liking the CR-V, although I like driving my car better.

I managed to get close to the 1% goal for my TLX lease, but some of that was the luck of being there at the very last day of their sales period. Just crossed over 7000 miles already after only 4.5 months of having it. Right now I'm still thinking I'd like to keep it at the end of the lease, but then we'll have to start a new c.$18k loan. In other words, best case seems to be that I won't be out of car debt for about 6 years. Hmmm. Shifty may be on to something....

once the CRV is paid off, keep making the payments to yourself (set up an account just for that) for the remaining 2 years until the lease is done. $800/month should do it. Then you will have 2 3 YO cars you like, and no debt.

qbrozen

Decided to cut out one round of emails. Typically I start out with a "hey, is this available and can you send me your best offer" email. Now I just sent out a couple with my offer, including every detail, right off the bat. We'll see what feathers that ruffles.

henryn

qbrozen said:

Same thing happened to us house shopping. We came across a bank-owned foreclosure. We offered FULL asking price. They came back and said "oh, we have other interested parties. please give us your BEST bid in the next 24 hours." We decided to purchase the other house we were considering since anymore money on the foreclosed house would be a mistake (it needed work, of course). Well, guess what happened to those other "interested parties"? Yeah, the bank overplayed their hand, begged us to come back to the table (which we refused of course), and wound up selling it at a later date for much less than we offered.

I understand that financing a house can be really tough these days, many more people get turned down. Back before the bottom fell out in 2008, they were financing almost anyone for almost any amount, and then the pendulum swung too far in the opposite direction. For a while there, it was very difficult to get financed on a house. Or at least so I was told. Which is probably what happened to the first buyers who were offering more money than you did.

In 2011, when I bought this house, it was a HUD foreclosure (left over from the meltdown of 2008). I paid $50k, and spent another $10k to get it ready to move in. I tried to get a mortgage for $40 or 50 or 60, no one wanted to generate a mortgage for such a small amount. I did get one offer, which was going to cost me $3,8xx dollars just to get into the mortgage.

The really bad part? My credit union was willing to loan me $60,000 to buy a new car, for 72 months, at 1.99% interest. But they were prevented, by law, from doing a mortgage. We really do have the best lawmakers that money can buy.

In the end, I just drew the money from my 401k. I was past the magic date (59.5 years old), so all I had to pay was straight income tax, no penalties. I just drew out the $50k, spent $10k out of pocket for the repairs, and then another $10k out of pocket to pay the income tax on that $50k.

And I was also outbid on this house, the HUD foreclosure. I had the cashier's check in hand to buy, and HUD tells me they've got a better offer, someone has offered $55k. WTH?? That isn't what you said yesterday! So fast forward a month, I'm watching the HUD listings, and the same house shows up again. I call, oh, yeah, they couldn't get financed, do you still want it for the $50k?

It was a great deal, I hadn't been able to find anything better, so yes, I still wanted it. I was a little PO'ed, but sometimes you just have to roll with the punches.

qbrozen

Oh yeah, I also chatted with Infiniti customer service. Wanted to express my dismay that I am excluded from their conquest rebate and, as a result, will have to forego my dreams of a new Q50. Yes, I was kind of hoping they'd say "oh, here is a magic code to get you $1k off," but, no, they just said "yeah, it seems you don't qualify. too bad, so sad, bye-bye."

With it, I would have been right at $325 for a Q50 3.0T AWD Luxe with essential package. Without it, I'm afraid the wife just isn't on board at $350.

stickguy

qbrozen said:

Decided to cut out one round of emails. Typically I start out with a "hey, is this available and can you send me your best offer" email. Now I just sent out a couple with my offer, including every detail, right off the bat. We'll see what feathers that ruffles.

which model are you going after? the X2?

I did find that tight in the back (and man, rear visibility was lousy). I preferred the X1 since it was a lot more practical, but for the right price, could make an X2 work! Surprising to me, the wife liked the X2, and better than the X1 I think. Just not quite sure it has the space to fit everything for the week at the shore or week travelling at Christmas.

qbrozen

X1 would be better, but does not lease nearly as well. She really liked the X2.
I'm also continuing to email about S60s, as well.

stickguy

The S60s I found yesterday were up in Princeton. No clue if the 2018 is leasable. but was a nice car.

corvette

henryn said:

I tried to get a mortgage for $40 or 50 or 60, no one wanted to generate a mortgage for such a small amount. I did get one offer, which was going to cost me $3,8xx dollars just to get into the mortgage.
...
And I was also outbid on this house, the HUD foreclosure. I had the cashier's check in hand to buy, and HUD tells me they've got a better offer, someone has offered $55k. WTH?? That isn't what you said yesterday! So fast forward a month, I'm watching the HUD listings, and the same house shows up again. I call, oh, yeah, they couldn't get financed, do you still want it for the $50k?

Things may be different in Houston, but there are quite a few banks in my area that are happy to originate a mortgage below $50,000, however, the closing costs are generally about the same on a $50k house as a $500k one. So, with origination fees, flood certification fees, appraisal fees, etc., you're easily paying a couple thousand in hard costs for the privilege of financing, regardless of the amount financed. It just doesn't make sense to do that in that price range. For some people, it would probably be better to get an unsecured loan at 6-7%--only catch there is you generally have to pay it back within five years.

The same principle applies with car purchases, I've known a few people who took a large draw out of retirement accounts to pay cash for a car, and gotten hit with a big income tax bill in a higher tax bracket than normal, when the hit would've been much smaller if they'd taken the relatively inexpensive financing and not had to withdraw so much in a given year.

And I can't believe HUD turned down a $50k cash offer to accept a $55k offer that had a financing contingency. I'm sure they have fixed criteria about which offer to accept, but this situation is the exact reason private sellers prefer cash offers, even if the price is lower.

corvette

Okay, time to play oil change roulette. The Tahoe will need an oil change in the next few weeks. I normally take it to Valvoline, which apparently is the same chain where the previous owner took it. However, I have $34 in Groupon credits I need to redeem. My closest Valvolines don't have any Groupon offers. Here are the choices:
- Jiffy Lube for $24
- Valvoline on the other side of town - $40 for synthetic blend (I usually use regular)
- Local auto repair shop - Package of 2 oil changes within the next year for $36 - specifically says it includes disposal fees; not sure about the others but none of the reviews complain
- Place I've never heard of - $25
- Valvoline an hour and a half away, but I happen to know there's a great BBQ place there - $26

All of them only include 5 quarts, so I'm on the hook for whatever they want to charge for the additional quart the Tahoe takes. Going with the package from the local auto repair shop is tempting, since it would use up all my credits and the Tahoe will need two changes within the next year anyway. And I can still go and get BBQ at the place an hour and a half away without getting my oil changed there. What say you?

Mr_Shiftright

I would choose the local repair shop, hands down!

benjaminh

Tesla on salt flats makes it to 150 mph....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZbLeRD8hQE

pensfan83

I would personally avoid any of the chain quick lube places.

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

I would choose the local repair shop, hands down!

Same here; I never fail to be amazed at the myriad of ways the barely sentient employees of Quicky Boob shops can screw up an oil change.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

The S60s I found yesterday were up in Princeton. No clue if the 2018 is leasable. but was a nice car.

Yes, they are leasable. Princeton SM is clueless though.

kyfdx

No issues with financing houses under $100K. It's re-financing them that's hard.
My bank wouldn't do a refinance for under $100K.

My car has a top speed of 155 MPH (so, I'm told). No salt flats needed. It only has 235 HP.

tbirdmarco

 Hope everyone had a good weekend, and awesome time today after Thanksgiving. Up to visit my older brother and nieces. Came home tonight little while ago. Not sure if I told you all are you selling his old truck that he has had for a couple of years old 1954 international. Some guy from Texas it’s finally buying it this coming up Thursday, after months of them going back and forth. Thank he’s in a get a car next something they could fit in the garage. So we shall see too nice on your  Core shopping that you have started, maybe you’ll have something either coming up next weekend and five days. Ha ha enjoyed reading everything else in here the past few days to. 

corvette

All righty, then, thanks for the recommendations, going to try the local place for the Tahoe's oil change in a couple weeks. The dealer where I bought the G37 provides three oil changes and one tire rotation in the first year, so that means it will probably get its oil changed three times in 4,000 miles--obviously, wish I could use one of those on the Tahoe.

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

Remember that deal on the Mazda RX-8, where I offered $6K out the door? They refused, so I walked, and then bought a Volvo C30 instead.

Now THAT dealer just e-mailed me with a "substantial price reduction! Contact us!"

Day late and a dollar short, Mr. Dealer.

"When one driver's door slams shut, another opens"

I think we all figured that was going to happen! Maybe dodged a bullet, although I still think you would have had fun with the RX8.

graphicguy

benjaminh said:

Tesla on salt flats makes it to 150 mph....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZbLeRD8hQE

Thanks for the video. The driver is sort of a tool, though. First, he called the city outside of the salt flats a hole. Not sure why he would say that. Plus, he's using a Kenny Loggins song as his top speed theme. That alone makes him a tool!

fintail

It's like Prius people with a little more money and ego.

qbrozen

Don't ask me why, but I am kind of smitten with this Volvo Eagle.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/189612811

nyccarguy

The S60 deals out there seem to be sweet. I saw a 36/18K S60 Inscription on Honcker today for $511/month with $511 DAS ($458 for 36/15K). On a $43,015 MSRP car with the Convenience Package & AWD. Not too many S60 Service Loaners near me. I was behind a White AWD today on my way in. He was hustling.

breld

Not bad looking at all. Better than the old Subaru Outback Sedan, or "SUS."

stickguy

I like it. Just a well equipped AWD S60 on its tip toes.

breld

I'm sure others remember these fondly, as I do.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-mazda-mx-6-ls-v6/

stickguy

Nice looking unit. Ford probe underneath IIRC.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

Nice looking unit. Ford probe underneath IIRC.

They made a dark green that was really sharp IIRC.

breld

stickguy said:

Nice looking unit. Ford probe underneath IIRC.

Yup - I kinda lusted after that second gen Probe GT too. But that Mazda was a nice design.

Michaell

breld said:

I'm sure others remember these fondly, as I do.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-mazda-mx-6-ls-v6/

That is a time machine!

28firefighter

GM just announced a 15% RIF and potential to shutdown 5 domestic plants, in addition to the plant in Canada already announced.

ab348

Big moves by GM today - Oshawa, Detroit-Hamtramck and Lordstown assembly to all close by the end of 2019, plus component plants in Baltimore and Warren, Mi. 15% of salaried workforce, or about 8000 jobs to be cut, so with the unionized losses maybe about 14000 jobs total. GM going all-in on lower-cost production sites, electriification, and trucks/SUVs.

nyccarguy

Paging @qbrozen to the White Courtesy Phone:

https://www.volvocarswhiteplains.com/new/Volvo/2018-Volvo-S60-elmsford-ny-4fba7f9f0a0e0ae769831123d204b9b5.htm

stickguy

I’m still amazed that in 2018, a big safety company like Volvo, still makes a backup camera optional. And has the gall to charge $995 for it!

28firefighter

Sounds like as part of the layoff and plant closure, we're going to be saying goodbye to the Volt and Chevy Cruze, among others.

suydam

No, they just won’t be built in the US, according to what I’m reading.

kyfdx

They already make the Cruze in Mexico, right? Or, is that just the hatchback?

stickguy

The hatch I think was imported.

If they are not making those models here, I doubt they will be importing them, certainly not the volt.