Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

tbirdmarco

Love all above 

tbirdmarco

Yes agree shop the car first if you like it than go from there 

nyccarguy

28firefighter said:

I really like the new Mazda6 - should drive one with the turbo. It probably doesn't lease as well as some others in it's class because Mazda doesn't typically do crazy incentives and there isn't much spread between invoice and MSRP. Still worth a look!

That makes 2 of us

suydam

Re the 6 — then why not get the CX 5, which is comparable size and sits higher.

sda

28firefighter said:

sda said:

My SIL has been communicating with her local Acura dealer about an MDX that she intends to buy at year end. It seems they aren’t willing to budge much from MSRP. She has been a loyal customer, having her 06 TL that she bought new serviced there. Her plan is to buy a new Acura and give her 06 to my wife and daughter to drive. I would think they would encourage her rather than the create frustration which it has. It may cause her to buy something else, like an Audi.

There is no reason she shouldn't be able to get a deal on an MDX, especially a 2018 model. I'd try another Acura dealer.

In today's car sales world, the problem is that in the 12 years since she bought her car, the sales management and sales staff could have turned over 20 times.

Absolutely. I think she is disappointed because she was hoping her existing relationship with the dealer and Acura would have provided a red carpet easy buying process. She shopped hard for the TL and drove over 200 miles to buy her TL as the only dealer in the town that she then resided was rigid with their pricing. Looks like she will need to do the same again.

qbrozen

Salesperson finally emailed me back. Lease went up $55. Told her thanks but no thanks.

stickguy

I did not even get an actual number, just that it went up to over $500, but that might have been an estimate. He flat out said leasing it made no sense. But immediately offered to chop almost $4K off the price.

stickguy

CX5? Well, I heard it was too slow, so moved on!

actually, the 6 is quite a bit cheaper. And quicker. I did not realize until I started digging that the base grand touring 6 has the turbo too now. I thought that was only an upgraded model. I did get a quote on a nice 6 Touring that has all the key points covered. the touring has the same engine as the CX5. That is $305/mo sign and drive (true zero DAS). The grand touring adds a few features and gadgets, and the turbo engine. Waiting on the actual quote, but that should be in the $345-$350 range (and a whole lot quicker). The CX5 grand touring was $367.

so, get the base engine sedan and save $60/month, or get the hot rod version and still save $20 or so.

A TLX 4 banger looks like it is closer to the $440 range (maybe a bit less, that is based on Honcker, so maybe $425).

so, a fair spread, but not enough to eliminate any option. But the TLX is getting into the range where you can start looking at premium options subsidized. Classic lease payment creep!

the 6 was always one of my favorites and is now pretty loaded. The expected safety stuff, info tech (I think it has carplay too). Always drove great (the sporty midsize option) and with the turbo should be really quick. I do need to try one out again for seat comfort, access, visibility, ride, etc. But I like them when I sit in them in the showroom. Probably a tough to beat combo if I decide to stick with a sedan, just a bigger one that the wife will like better.

stickguy

The wife said I probably won't get something anyway since I like to change my mind. I take that as a challenge. And just might leave her out of the process. Car is in my name, so I don't need her for anything, so just might bring something home and supply her!

being a CUV is not a requirement. She could certainly use a 6 or a TLX for the commute most days if she wanted to. technically it is still my car, so as long as it has the required features, is comfortable, and suitable for travelling can be any style.

graphicguy

sda said:

28firefighter said:

sda said:

My SIL has been communicating with her local Acura dealer about an MDX that she intends to buy at year end. It seems they aren’t willing to budge much from MSRP. She has been a loyal customer, having her 06 TL that she bought new serviced there. Her plan is to buy a new Acura and give her 06 to my wife and daughter to drive. I would think they would encourage her rather than the create frustration which it has. It may cause her to buy something else, like an Audi.

There is no reason she shouldn't be able to get a deal on an MDX, especially a 2018 model. I'd try another Acura dealer.

In today's car sales world, the problem is that in the 12 years since she bought her car, the sales management and sales staff could have turned over 20 times.

Absolutely. I think she is disappointed because she was hoping her existing relationship with the dealer and Acura would have provided a red carpet easy buying process. She shopped hard for the TL and drove over 200 miles to buy her TL as the only dealer in the town that she then resided was rigid with their pricing. Looks like she will need to do the same again.

Yeah.....1 car in 12 years isn’t going to bowl over a sales person. But getting a deal on a leftover MDX shouldn’t be difficult. Has she picked the specific MDX out that she wants? MDX has sold well. Not imagining they have many left.

Once she settles on the one she wants, tell her to throw a number at them and see what they say.

stickguy

I had an epiphany. A new plan is in the works. at least until I hear back from my contact as to what the cost is going to be!

I'll let you know how it works out. But definitely at this point going to surprise the wife this time!

made the mistake of checking the lease app. Not expecting this plan to not die on the vine.

back to the drawing board!

benjaminh

stickguy said:

I had an epiphany. A new plan is in the works. at least until I hear back from my contact as to what the cost is going to be!

I'll let you know how it works out. But definitely at this point going to surprise the wife this time!

I think you surprised your wife last time with your Hyundai....Hope this surprise is better.

My local Acura dealer is advertising base TLX 2.4 leases starting at $250 a month with $2500 das. Your $440 a month quote sounds high unless that's the the TLX Tech. Is the RDX out of the running?

The Mazda6 is a nice car. Make sure it actually has the CarPlay installed if you go that route.

If you're trying for a luxury sport sedan have you considered what BMW, Audi, and Mercedes have in CPO cars?

breld

@stickguy - waiting on pins and needles!

Love the enthusiasm and totally get how all different types of vehicles are drawing your attention.  It’s nice when you’re not necessarily tied into one class.  

Like many others here I do like the Mazda6.  They’ve made some significant improvements to the interior.  And that turbo engine should transform the driving experience.  

Do keep in mind that turbo will be available in the CX5 too if you’d still prefer an suv.  

stickguy

If I get an Acura, TLX or RDX, it has to have the Tech package. The RDX I think is out at this point. That can be on the list for a few years down the line when the wife is finally ready to let the old one go. Terms too lousy to be worth leasing, and too expensive to just buy it (unless she wants to trade the current one in). And, she actually went along for the Elantra test drive. She does have a "whatever you like, it's your car" policy. But that doesn't always work out for her.

The 6 is a really nice car. if nothing else, worth a look. And yes, I am pretty flexible on style. Just has to fit certain parameters (including price) and have key features. And the wife has to like it of course.

I have always liked the 6. Seriously considered one before I got the Sonata. Would not consider one of those a penalty box at all (especially not a Turbo).

The 2019 CX5 will have the turbo, but that is likely to push $40K, and lease in the same range as the Lincoln or Infiniti. Tough market right there.

Always nice to have new options to look at!

benjaminh

Lots of positive reviews of the Mazda6 out there, including this one....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29QrAjQfAMc

With premium gas the new turbo makes 250 hp, but if you put regular in it that drops about 25hp—which should still be enough. In this review he says the sound from the engine and the 6-speed transmission is not quite as good as he'd like.

Since I really like mine, I still think it's worth test driving the TLX Tech 2.4. The 4-wheel steering, 8-speed dual clutch transmission with torque converter, and ELS sound system are worth experiencing imho. The refinement of the TLX throughout will probably please you.

But the Mazda 6 also seems like a good choice, and if it saves you some major money that might be the prudent path. The Mazda 6 is a really good looking car.

28firefighter

I’m loving seeing your process, @Stickguy.

And very glad you’re open to options other than an Acura TLX. Lots of awesome options out there and the month is young for lease deals. 

stickguy

with out lab we call that Squirrel syndrome. In this case, shiny objects.

good point about deals this month. Not being in a hurry helps. Do the looking, make the contacts, put the feelers out, and if someone bites, something to do for New Years eve!

benjaminh

That $440 lease quote for the 2019 TLX Tech is making me appreciate the deal I got on my 2018.

What color do you favor for the Mazda 6? I do think that red looks really good.

stickguy

really nice review there. hits a lot of high points. I doubt that the engine note is going to make much of a difference to me compared to all the nice features!

On the list to look at this week.

28firefighter

stickguy said:

with out lab we call that Squirrel syndrome. In this case, shiny objects. good point about deals this month. Not being in a hurry helps. Do the looking, make the contacts, put the feelers out, and if someone bites, something to do for New Years eve!

Stick - I’m also happy to keep an eye out for the unicorns. If there are cars on your periphery that seem unlikely but you would jump for $X deal, let me know. 

I have been dealing with a bunch of work stuff and had to dial back my posting on lease hacker, but things are starting to quiet down, so I’m watching again. 

stickguy

the one thing that I have not really tried to do, and likely won't have much success, is one of those fall in your lap killer deals on a BMW service loaner. A decently equipped x1 at a palatable price, I would not kick out of the garage.

28firefighter

stickguy said:

the one thing that I have not really tried to do, and likely won't have much success, is one of those fall in your lap killer deals on a BMW service loaner. A decently equipped x1 at a palatable price, I would not kick out of the garage.

Well. The good news is, it’s loaner unicorn season and BMW recently revised their incentives. Will let you know what I find. 

qbrozen

I'm open for suggestions as well. Pretty much just AWD, moonroof, and leather are her MUST haves. She'd like heated seats but I'm thinking I could jump on a Q50 deal without those and let her take the Alfa when she wants her buns warmed. Was thinking to look out for 328xi loaners or something of that sort. She'd probably prefer a C300 4matic, though. I also want to get her to try out a JGC and JC. 

28firefighter

Your budget is sub-$350, right, Q?

What about one of the Toyo deals being posted over on hackr?

28firefighter

If I could snag one of those 4Runner deals next December to replace the X1, i would probably do it. 

fintail

Can't remember if I posted, but I recently got a lease end "options" letter, as I am now in pull forward territory. Not much out there making me itch to make a move right now. For some reason I want to see the new A sedan, but I am sure it'll be 50K the way I want it optioned, maybe not a great value.

Any good sign and drives on a G or S for 5-600?

28firefighter

We’ve seen some BMW 7 series loaners in the 700s. But not up here. 

Lease deal on a G. Lol. 

qbrozen

28firefighter said:

Your budget is sub-$350, right, Q?

What about one of the Toyo deals being posted over on hackr?

yes.
I don't believe any of those Toyos have the luxo options at those prices. Not to mention, once you up it to 15k and add the taxes, etc, it will be up there.

Spotted something somewhat kind of interesting on honcker.

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

Your budget is sub-$350, right, Q?

What about one of the Toyo deals being posted over on hackr?

yes. I don't believe any of those Toyos have the luxo options at those prices. Not to mention, once you up it to 15k and add the taxes, etc, it will be up there. Spotted something somewhat kind of interesting on honcker.

If you can tolerate the CVT and the engine, it’s a no brainer. I keep forgetting you need 15k. 

fintail

Not my kinda thing. I'm still wondering how a buyout might work, I am definitely not against it. It'll have to be the right car and right deal.

I've read the new G is still tough to find, haven't yet seen one on the road. I might have to test drive one of the ones in my price range just to see what it is like.

28firefighter said:

We’ve seen some BMW 7 series loaners in the 700s. But not up here. 

Lease deal on a G. Lol. 

qbrozen

28firefighter said:

If you can tolerate the CVT and the engine, it’s a no brainer. I keep forgetting you need 15k. 

I can't. But maybe she can.

benjaminh

At my local Mazda dealer here's a Grand Touring 6 with an msrp of $31k marked down to 29k that looks good. With the Bose premium audio and the turbo this seems like a really nice car for the money—great looking, powerful, great stereo, CarPlay, blis, etc.

https://www.oxmoormazda.com/inventory/new-2018-mazda-mazda6-grand-touring-fwd-4d-sedan-jm1gl1ty9j1315890

benjaminh

One thing lacking in the Mazda 6 above is a power passenger seat. I recall that's one of the things that @stickguy 's wife doesn't like about the Elantra Sport. Perhaps Grand Touring models can get that as an option? Which Mazda dealer are you working with?

benjaminh

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-04/how-ghosn-may-have-hidden-70-million-from-those-who-paid-him

"How Ghosn May Have Hidden $70 Million — From the Company That Paid Him
By Jason Clenfield and Yuki Hagiwara
December 4, 2018, 3:00 PM EST Updated on December 5, 2018, 5:00 AM EST

How could one of the world’s most visible employees go about hiding $70 million worth of salary and benefits paid to him by one of the world’s biggest companies, without the company knowing it?

Two weeks after Tokyo prosecutors arrested Carlos Ghosn for allegedly under-reporting his compensation, that question is still unanswered. What is certain is that Nissan Motor Co.’s own corporate governance rules gave unusual powers to its former chairman, a business celebrity who was given extraordinary deference for having once rescued the automaker from financial ruin. Those powers included near-total say over how much -- and how -- he was paid, according to Nissan’s own internal rules...."

tbirdmarco

 Heard about this last week or the week before crazy with posted above big corporations for you through all doing some form of cheating this sadly. 

benjaminh

Another mostly positive review of the Mazda 6....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRcqxQMMrkA

tbirdmarco

Q man  can we to see what is up happening with you and stick guy hopefully you’re both have cars with the end of the year. Enjoying reading this every day nor interesting stuff posted 

kyfdx

stickguy said:

the one thing that I have not really tried to do, and likely won't have much success, is one of those fall in your lap killer deals on a BMW service loaner. A decently equipped x1 at a palatable price, I would not kick out of the garage.

The X1 residuals won't support a cheap lease deal.

benjaminh

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:

the one thing that I have not really tried to do, and likely won't have much success, is one of those fall in your lap killer deals on a BMW service loaner. A decently equipped x1 at a palatable price, I would not kick out of the garage.

The X1 residuals won't support a cheap lease deal.

@kyfdx Do you have any suggestions for stick for a good lease for a vehicle he might be interested in?

stickguy

that red GT 6 up above is the exact model I am looking at. Just a different color. We shall see. still need to go drive it, but the reviews give me great hope I will love it. The power passenger seat is Mrs. Stick's hangup. Not quite sure why, since she almost never adjusts it. And if it is just 4 way (like the RDX, and I think my Sonata was) you don't get any more adjustment, just buttons instead of levers!

I insist on a power driver's seat for the adjust ability. I am actually fine with manual, as long as they give you a separate front tilt adjustment (like BMW used to do on their manual seats). Most manual seats are just too flat, not enough rake (the problem I have with the Elantra).

I am always open to new suggestions!

on the BMWs, some of the loaners I saw had pretty steep discounts, so I was hoping that would offset the residual. Plus I can get away with a 10k miles lease. An X2 would work also if cheaper (probably not a common loaner though). Heck, a 3 series sedan since I am looking at those too (never gonna find a wagon in the loaner pool I assume).

the GT hatches are actually one of my favorites. But, more expensive and again, not likely as loaners.

graphicguy

Every time I see a current gen Mazda 6 on the road (especially in red) I do a double take. It is a VERY handsome car. The red paint looks sumptuous.

That said, I haven’t driven one in a very long time. So, not sure how they drive. Just a few observations from the video....

-no Apple CarPlay or Android Auto? That means (for my Apple CarPlay) no WAZE, no iPhone music, Audible Books, Apple Maps, Apple voice integration, no Podcasts, etc. That’s almost a non-starter for me.

-slow on take off? For a turbo 4 cyl? That sort of negates some of the advantages other 4 cyl turbos have.....off the line grunt.

I probably need to drive one. The looks get my attention. Not sure about the drive, though.

benjaminh

Since that video CarPlay has been added to the Mazda 6.

benjaminh

In terms of speed, the Mazda 6 2.5 turbo clocks in at about 6.4 to 60, which is fast imho. But if you have a TLX V-6 the 0-60 time for that is down at maybe 5.8, which is about the same as for for new Accord 2.0 turbo.

In terms of handling, all the reviews I've seen said the Mazda 6 has really good handling and is a lot of fun to drive.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

that red GT 6 up above is the exact model I am looking at. Just a different color. We shall see. still need to go drive it, but the reviews give me great hope I will love it. The power passenger seat is Mrs. Stick's hangup. Not quite sure why, since she almost never adjusts it. And if it is just 4 way (like the RDX, and I think my Sonata was) you don't get any more adjustment, just buttons instead of levers!

I insist on a power driver's seat for the adjust ability. I am actually fine with manual, as long as they give you a separate front tilt adjustment (like BMW used to do on their manual seats). Most manual seats are just too flat, not enough rake (the problem I have with the Elantra).

I am always open to new suggestions!

on the BMWs, some of the loaners I saw had pretty steep discounts, so I was hoping that would offset the residual. Plus I can get away with a 10k miles lease. An X2 would work also if cheaper (probably not a common loaner though). Heck, a 3 series sedan since I am looking at those too (never gonna find a wagon in the loaner pool I assume).

the GT hatches are actually one of my favorites. But, more expensive and again, not likely as loaners.

BMW doesn't give very good MF, either. That hurts the most on a lease.

benjaminh

Are there still crazy deals on Alfa Romeos?

stickguy

as noted the 6 now has carplay. And with 310 ft/lbs of torque, it can't be too slow! Of course, that is through the front wheels, so the comment may be related to keeping traction happening. My guess, is that from what I am used to (and require) it will be more than acceptably fast.

the last one I drove was a 2015 before I got my Sonata. They have done 2 major upgrades since, and added a ton of features, so definitely want to take a look.

of course I must be jinxed. finally have a free afternoon today, was going to run out to do some looking, and it is supposed to snow. I hate winter.

ab348

stickguy said:

The wife said I probably won't get something anyway since I like to change my mind. I take that as a challenge. And just might leave her out of the process. Car is in my name, so I don't need her for anything, so just might bring something home and supply her!

What could possibly go wrong? That seems to be straight from the Iluvmyspehia School of Automobile Purchasing.

qbrozen

benjaminh said:

Are there still crazy deals on Alfa Romeos?

no

benjaminh

Did you give an Acura dealer a shot at a deal on TLX Tech? They might surprise you as currently Acura has a c. $4900 lease incentive on that specific model plus another c.$1500 "flex cash" (whatever the heck that is). Anyway, the max total lease incentive (almost $6.5k) seems to be maybe even slightly more than when I got mine. The "hot" models for the TLX are the V-6 and the A-spec, and I think they sell a lot of base models too, but when I went in I had the feeling that no one else had been looking at the one TLX 2.4 Tech model that they had. Even though I liked the car a lot, when it was clear I was very politely just going to walk they did whatever it took to get me into that car. Something like that might well happen to you if you gave it a try, meaning that the difference between a TLX Tech and a Mazda Grand Touring might not be that great.

There are some good points for each model.

Mazda 6 2.5 turbo advantages—more power/faster, has spare tire (since that bothers you about the TLX), less money, etc.

TLX Tech advantages—Milano leather seats (instead of leatherette), 4-wheel steering, 8-speed transmission (instead of 6 for the 6), ELS stereo (although I'm sure the Bose on the 6 is pretty darn good), better ergonomics (the 6 has that start button way up on the dash for some reason), etc.

benjaminh

And what about a new BMW 3-series for...

$359 a month with zero down + 3 years BMW Ultimate care. Alpine white, moonroof, back up camera, heated seats, xdrive, etc. $40k msrp.

http://www.parkavebmw.com/specials/new.htm

Yes, I know this has the lower power engine, but it still gets from 0-60 in about 7 seconds. I was worried when stick was considering a CX-5 that seemed like it was c. 8-9 seconds to 60, but anything less than 7.5 seems good enough to me. And it has 4-wheel drive, which obviously helps with the snow factor.

Reading the fine print I see this is factoring in a $1k owner loyalty credit. But even without that it still might be a good deal.