Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

pensfan83

Our Nissan dealer did the same to get us come in to discuss a deal for a new Altima, albeit it was just our salesman calling us. Politely told him we're not ready to make a move yet, which is true, and the calls stopped.

nyccarguy

@Michaell _ got your email & reached out early yesterday AM. Haven't heard back. If I can help out, i will!

venture

roadburner said:

I'm spoiled by the ZF 8HP; I might, repeat, might also consider a DCT in an M2C or a DSG in a Golf R, but a CVT? Nope.

I hear you brother. If I was going to track at all I don't think I would like a CVT.

My Legacy has one, but it replicates shifts. It's not bad. I just putt around most times so it's OK.

stickguy

So, met the wife at the Infiniti dealer at lunch (conveniently it is about 5 minutes down the road from her, and I have nothing better to do!). Finally got a salesperson to talk to us (forward progress!). Got to take a QX50 out for a test drive. White over black (white is OK, black, tough sell). But, an AWD essential with lots of goodies. Sticker $50,240. Ouch!

we both drove. Not too far, but a little mix of windy roads and a stretch where I could goose it a bit. Overall, nice car. Comfy seats. The wife really liked it (passenger seat was particularly comfortable). I was fine with the drivers seat, and that was without lowering it a bit (had it jacked all the way up I think). Interior is very nicely done. Stitched leather dash? I felt like such a high roller. Great tunes. Quiet, nice ride, good handling and steering. Does not feel too bulky. And features out the wingwang. Would take a while to figure it all out. Besides the usual luxo stuff (pano roof, memory seats, tri zone climate) there were a full boat of nannies and helpers. Navigation, cool 360 view and top view camera. No excuse to curb a tire in this buggy.

lots of room inside too. More cargo space than the RDX for sure.

The drive? I can live with it. Definitely a 4 banger but the CVT was not nearly as noticeable as the CRV was. some CVT feel, but it does have fake shift points. I am sure once you get acclimated to it don't really notice. But, it was pretty quick, and I think an easy car to be going way faster than you realize in.

Did not have a chance to really discuss with the wife (we both had to run out quickly) but I think she really liked it . I am sure if I worked a deal and brought one home, she would not complain at all. Next step is to see if numbers get lined up from the dealer, or if Honcker or leasehacker springs a deal that is doable. I do at least get VPP and conquest from them!

I did get a pretty good quote on a CX5. A very nice car, but definitely not equipped like the Infiniti! And in the end, probably not much cheaper.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

So, met the wife at the Infiniti dealer at lunch (conveniently it is about 5 minutes down the road from her, and I have nothing better to do!). Finally got a salesperson to talk to us (forward progress!). Got to take a QX50 out for a test drive. White over black (white is OK, black, tough sell). But, an AWD essential with lots of goodies. Sticker $50,240. Ouch!

we both drove. Not too far, but a little mix of windy roads and a stretch where I could goose it a bit. Overall, nice car. Comfy seats. The wife really liked it (passenger seat was particularly comfortable). I was fine with the drivers seat, and that was without lowering it a bit (had it jacked all the way up I think). Interior is very nicely done. Stitched leather dash? I felt like such a high roller. Great tunes. Quiet, nice ride, good handling and steering. Does not feel too bulky. And features out the wingwang. Would take a while to figure it all out. Besides the usual luxo stuff (pano roof, memory seats, tri zone climate) there were a full boat of nannies and helpers. Navigation, cool 360 view and top view camera. No excuse to curb a tire in this buggy.

lots of room inside too. More cargo space than the RDX for sure.

The drive? I can live with it. Definitely a 4 banger but the CVT was not nearly as noticeable as the CRV was. some CVT feel, but it does have fake shift points. I am sure once you get acclimated to it don't really notice. But, it was pretty quick, and I think an easy car to be going way faster than you realize in.

Did not have a chance to really discuss with the wife (we both had to run out quickly) but I think she really liked it . I am sure if I worked a deal and brought one home, she would not complain at all. Next step is to see if numbers get lined up from the dealer, or if Honcker or leasehacker springs a deal that is doable. I do at least get VPP and conquest from them!

I did get a pretty good quote on a CX5. A very nice car, but definitely not equipped like the Infiniti! And in the end, probably not much cheaper.

I think a turbo takes care of a lot of four-cylinder issues..

pensfan83

Motor Trend just published its comparison between the RDX, XT4, and QX50.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acura/rdx/2019/2019-acura-rdx-vs-2019-cadillac-xt4-vs-2019-infiniti-qx50-comparison/

stickguy

Interesting article. I’ll show the wife. My take though is when you experience even the one they pick on, it is still really nice. The bar is set really high these days.

pensfan83

I agree, they're all really nice and I'm impressed by the XT4.

ab348

pensfan83 said:

I agree, they're all really nice and I'm impressed by the XT4.

Yesterday I saw my first XT4 up close in the flesh on a dealer lot here. $52K in worthless Canadian dollars for a Premium Luxury trim with a few option packages. It is a good-looking rig on the outside and a nice compact size. This sadly had a black interior (there must be an obscure law here mandating that) so it was hard to get much sense of the interior with the vehicle locked, and the blackout windows on the rear doors and hatch made it impossible to get a sense of rear space.

I would wait a couple of years for the refreshed model in any event, when GM usually starts to get things right.

benjaminh

pensfan83 said:

Motor Trend just published its comparison between the RDX, XT4, and QX50.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acura/rdx/2019/2019-acura-rdx-vs-2019-cadillac-xt4-vs-2019-infiniti-qx50-comparison/

Some of the evaluations of the QX50 seem worrying....

"The good powertrain communication we enjoyed in the RDX was missing in the QX50. The Infiniti's variable-compression engine is a technological marvel, but it is poorly mated to a CVT, which mutes power delivery. "There are at least three things changing all the time—gear ratio, turbo boost, and engine compression—and they are each fighting over who takes the mic," Walton said. "They only all come together and agree what to do at wide-open throttle. What a mess." Ayapana shared this feeling, saying that the throttle response has a "lurching, slingshotlike delivery." We also complained about the suspension, noticing far more vibrations inside the cabin than when driving the RDX or XT4 over the same pavement. "I found bumps and impacts I didn't know were there," Walton said. Regardless, the QX50 was the quickest of the group, taking 6.3 seconds to get from 0 to 60 mph.

....contemporariness is missing in the QX50's nav system and its outdated graphical interface. Infiniti opted for a dual-screen layout, leaving the top screen for the nav system and the bottom for infotainment. But it's a missed opportunity. The clunky user interface is "a glaring weakness in an otherwise decent cabin," Ayapana said. Walton complained about the many options to control the two screens: steering wheel buttons, touchscreen, hard buttons below the touchscreen, and the push-knob controller. "In a hurry, I never know where to go to change something," he said. We were also disappointed to find that the QX50 offers neither Apple CarPlay nor Android Auto."

No AndroidAuto/CarPlay in a 2019 vehicle? That would stop me right there, although the performance issues also are worrying. Plus even with a big discount I'm guessing that a $50k car leases for c. $500 a month? Too rich for my blood, but even if I had the money I don't think I'd spend it on a vehicle with such serious drawbacks.

stickguy

I should take the wife back to drive the RDX again maybe. Not quite as loaded up as the Infiniti (at least, not the tech package car I would get) but still everything we need and more. Just annoying that you can lease a 50K Infiniti for quite a bit less than a 43K Acura. But at least it has a sweet drivetrain!

Flip side, an Acura might be worth buying. There are just no CPOs out there yet that I can find (since they did not tend to go into loaner duty).

I did get a lease quote from the Infiniti dealer. Pretty consistent with Honcker, and a good deal. Could probably shave it down a smidge to match the one outlier (as in really cheap) deal on the App. Or could go the broker route, but I think I am close. Would come down more too if I traded in my car as I intend to.

probably good time to hit the Acura dealer to see how badly they want to move a car, since I can (literally) point across the street at the Infiniti dealer at the car I can get cheaper. Plus I am an Acura Legacy, that must count for something!

carnaught

Plus, if you were to buy, the Acura probably has better resale.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

....annoying that you can lease a 50K Infiniti for quite a bit less than a 43K Acura....

Just saying the obvious, but there's a reason for that.

The only Acura that seems to lease well is the TLX.

@stickguy It does seem in retrospect like you were getting such a good "deal" on your Elantra Sport that it blinded you to some of the drawbacks of the car. Now imho you did really well with the Elantra Sport, but I'm worried that the "deal" on the Infiniti is potentially blinding you to the drawbacks, drawbacks that may not become fully apparent until the QX50 is driven for a while. That's why the comparison test from MT is so useful, because they lived with the car and are more or less saying—"Danger, Will Robinson!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWwOJlOI1nU

breld

As I read through your post, I was thinking, "With a quote from Infiniti, and knowing you are serious about moving on a car, the Acura dealer could surprise you with a good offer."

But would that leave you with 2 RDXs? As a Acura dealer, perhaps they'd hit you with a good trade on the current RDX on a new one. Then the Elantra remains trade bait for a car for you @stickguy!

kyfdx

Lease deal of the day:

Infiniti QX80 Limited has a 60 month, 15K/yr residual of 66%.

I think that's the $100K MSRP one...

sda

None of the articles that I’ve read have been impressed with the QX50 drivetrain and ride. I would take a extended drive before signing. The reviewers tend to be overly critical, so it may be just fine. The RDX is getting mostly positive reviews, good driving dynamics, though some think the ride too firm, controls complicated, and gas mileage disappointing. CU averaged 22 mpg, premium of course, which was the same as the previous V6.

suydam

One thing I have learned for sure is that if something bugs you on the test drive, it will not improve the more you drive it. In fact, it’s likely to irritate you more. I’m surprised about your comments about the CX5’s infotainment and safety systems compared to the Infinity (which MT didn’t care for). When I drove a 3 2 years ago, it had a wonderful infotainment system and all the safety stuff, and I thought that was standard across all their models.

28firefighter

I'll just point out that if you're considering leasing and an RDX leases for $500+ and a QX50 that leases for $399, they're in completely different price categories at that point. Budget matters, so it's important to make sure you're comparing apples-to-apples, and in leasing sometimes apples-to-apples doesn't equate to the MSRP class competitors.

Yes, there may be a reason for it, but is there $100/month of reason? When you're buying, the balance shifts.

Making sure you can live with the QX50 for 36 months is a good idea, before signing, but I doubt the competition will be able to touch that.

tjc78

If you can snag a loaded QX for $400 w/ zero DAS I think that’s a hell of a deal.  

I am sure the reviewer was looking for quirks with the new systems and some of those could already be ironed out with software flashes.  

Oh and I hope everyone jumps on the credit cards lol 

stickguy

all good points. Most important of course is getting something we like. leasing just muddies the water with the odd relationship between sticker and monthly payment.

good point about needing a longer drive. That is easy enough to do. The rdx we drove a while back, and liked it a lot. MPG should be fine compared to the current one. RDX does lease lousy of course.

true about Acura resale. We did good on that with the current one!

right now, roughly, looking at the Infiniti being $100 more than the CX5 and the RDX another $50 above the Infiniti. Maybe some haggling can tighten the gap, or maybe just lower them all. Though the Mazda is a 2018, and the lease program changes tomorrow, and supply is thin now especially if you don't want black seats.

always an option to trade in the old one on a new one, and take out a loan. will be about the same payment, but something to keep a long time again. Or if buying, find something like a slightly used X1 for even less money.

I don't mind have 2 CUVs now, or if both are RDXs. That does not have to be permanent anyway!

other than grabbing a 2018 before they are gone (that is just the Mazda at this point) no reason to rush vs. waiting until month end, unless Carvana decides they finally don't like my car after all.

the wife will love getting dragged out looking at more cars. Though I think she is hooked now on getting something with all the latest gizmos!

stickguy

Hey, QB, what happened with your S60 lease deal? Did Volvo pull the big incentives? I know supply is really thin now, and saw on Honcker that the couple of them left are now through the roof.

stickguy

tjc78 said:

If you can snag a loaded QX for $400 w/ zero DAS I think that’s a hell of a deal.  

I am sure the reviewer was looking for quirks with the new systems and some of those could already be ironed out with software flashes.  

Oh and I hope everyone jumps on the credit cards lol 

it would be. Though right now the best I found was more like $450 with $500 down (through the app) and $475 at the dealer. Though sticker on that one is right at $50K.

laurasdada

Yeah, I'm going straight for Cards that withdraw $100,000 per day costs $7,500 USD.
I'll send part of the $100k to my new bestie, the Nigerian Lawyer who wants to send me US 4mm$...

Thank you BlankCards for the best post ever here!

28firefighter

From what I'm seeing on lease hackr, the QX50 inventory eligible for the really cheap broker deals is drying up a bit - may need to wait a bit into December for that to loosen up.

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

Lease deal of the day: Infiniti QX80 Limited has a 60 month, 15K/yr residual of 66%. I think that's the $100K MSRP one...

Oh yeah? What kind if discount can I get on that $100k? Cause paying off $34k in 5 years won't be cheap. What's the MF?

ab348

Maybe Stick should jump on one of those BlankCards deals ASAP to be able to get whatever he really likes.

corvette

kyfdx said:

Lease deal of the day:

Infiniti QX80 Limited has a 60 month, 15K/yr residual of 66%.

I think that's the $100K MSRP one...

So, what does that make the payment look like with zero down? Asking for a friend.

benjaminh

What's going on with stickguy's shopping seems to me to be a small piece of the picture of why sedans are dying. My wife wanted an SUV too.

Michaell

@graphicguy - sometime over the weekend, I read an interesting first person article about someone who bought a Stinger.

I wish I could find the link to it, as I believe it to be a cautionary tale for you. I'll try to summarize.

This person had been a die hard BMW fan for 20+ years, but when the time came to replace his current DD, he couldn't find the sweet spot in the current 3-series lineup - the 330 was not powerful enough, but the 340 was too expensive.

Heard about the Stinger, and test drove one. Like you, he was mightily impressed - room, power, everything ticked the right boxes.

So he takes the plunge and signs the paperwork. Can't remember the specific trim, but do know it was a GT.

A week later, he starts to feel juddering when braking. Takes the car in, only to find the rotors are warped. Kia won't replace them, but will cut them to remove the problem. Both the dealer and Kia push back on doing anything else.

Next, our intrepid journalist prepares to detail the car. Finds blue paint on his cloth. Yep, the paint is peeling. Big time, around the hatch area. He wants a full respray; again, dealer and corporate say nope, we'll only do the affected areas.

So, channeling his best inner @breld, the author ditches the car - AFTER THREE WEEKS!!! - and buys a CPO 340i. And, all is right in the world.

(except, of course, for the massive depreciation hit he took on the deal)

He's disappointed that Kia - the dealer and corporate - didn't really treat him as a customer who just purchased a $50K car from them.

Given your experiences with both Audi and Cadillac, I don't think this is a road you want to travel. At all.

This is, of course, a sample size of one, but I think the service you've received with your Acura is indicative of how you wanted to be treated. Nobody has the time or energy to go through that kind of treatment from their dealer.

My .02 on the situation.

28firefighter

I've seen what @michaell said echoed about the paint quality over on Leasehackr - someone recently had their Yellow Stinger GT bought back because of paint issues.

ab348

But imagine the months of entertainment here when the inevitable buyback process starts!

Michaell

ab348 said:

But imagine the months of entertainment here when the inevitable buyback process starts!

He's been through it …. twice (3x if you count his mom's Cadillac).

Time for someone else to give it a go.

Any takers?

tjc78

Odd about the paint. I’ve had three Hyundai’s and all had zero paint problems.

ab348

Kia recalled all the Sunset Yellow Stringers sold for paint flaking problems and had bare-metal resprays done under warranty.

Then there is this post regarding issues with blue Stinger paint. There are reports of white paint issues on that same forum.

stickguy

I would lose my last remaining marbles if my expensive new car needed a paint job. though if I leased it, oh well!

stickguy

so, gave the wife the recap of the days adventures in talking numbers with car dealers. and shared the MT article with her (Thanks Benjamin!). I also had to explain the concepts of an engine and transmission (followed by what is special about the Nissan motor, and a CVT).

so, she still liked a lot about the QX, but was not desperate for one. we talked about the RDX more, and she does really like that. So going to go back and drive one again more extensively. And probably take a swing through BMW to take an X1 or X2 for a spin. For some reason she didn't like it not having carplay either. Might still happen, but not right away.

BMW or and RDX would have to haggle a lease on that may not be doable. But we shall see. Just have to make sure whatever it is, wows us. Or I go back to the former plan, just find a really nice car. She can certainly drive something like that to work too! Just need to make sure it is something that is not too low riding.

so next step is to visit BMW and Acura dealers. And see whatever happened with the Volvo. So many options. Might just bite the bullet and snag an RDX if they work with me. Could be a decent lease to buy candidate too.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

....we talked about the RDX more, and she does really like that....

It was pensfan83 who posted the MT article. After that I posted some quotes from it.

The loyalty lease rate on the base RDX is ok imho....

"2019 RDX 10 Speed Automatic Featured Special Loyalty/Conquest Lease. For well-qualified lessees who currently own a 2009 or newer Acura, Honda, Audi Q5, or Lexus RX vehicle.
$379 Per month for 36 months.
$2,999 Total due at signing."

You probably want a higher trim level and maybe SH-AWD, but with negotiation maybe it won't be all that much more? The problem might be that the loyalty lease incentive only works with the base model. Don't know about that. Perhaps one of the experts here does?

tbirdmarco

Nice stick guy on today’s.  Car hunting!  So the hunting go s  on good not to rush like others have said and to look at all of your options 

stickguy

loyalty counts on any model. My experience though is the nationally advertised leases are always terrible.

tjc78

Yes you can usually beat them. I paid less than the advertised deal on my Elantra for a trim level above.

stickguy

my target would roughly be that deal for AWD tech instead of FWD base.

tbirdmarco

Thank you J P P on the clairafacation on the cooler  of your truck.  Don’t  trust any of those car   Tester peaple. I always say take what ever you are interested  in on an nice long test drive or home for the night than go from there.  

xwesx

28firefighter said:

Hey, @xwesx - I know you're pretty far north of Anchorage, but looks like that quake had a pretty decent radius. You OK?

All is well here! Sorry; I think I missed this post the first time around. I discussed the topic in the "Cars and Convos" thread.

graphicguy

Michaell said:

ab348 said:

But imagine the months of entertainment here when the inevitable buyback process starts!

He's been through it …. twice (3x if you count his mom's Cadillac).

Time for someone else to give it a go.

Any takers?

@Michaell ...if you can find the link, I would love to read it.

Yeah...those stories nag at me, too! That’s why I was kicking around the idea of a G70. Not sure if being a Genesis mitigates some of the quality issues and lack of dealer/manufacturer support I’m hearing about Kia, though. I thought the G70 and Stinger were coming out of the same Korean factory?

Did a little digging. I guess Kia had a specific problem with that yellow color. According to some of the on line forums that dull grey color is the most even and durable. That’s my least favorite color, however.

I don’t know how the hell Kia can deny warranty for warped rotors when the car is only a few weeks old. Are they saying they put crappy rotors in the most expensive car they sell?

Will stick to my original plan and wait for the TLX S-Type

pensfan83

graphicguy said:

 Will stick to my original plan and wait for the TLX S-Type

Same here, especially since Acura's lease end perks make it particularly enticing to stay with the brand.

benjaminh

pensfan83 said:

graphicguy said:

 Will stick to my original plan and wait for the TLX S-Type

Same here, especially since Acura's lease end perks make it particularly enticing to stay with the brand.


Are the loyalty lease perks with Acura better than what some other luxury brands offer?

28firefighter

I believe Acura waives disposition fee and let’s you roll over up to a certain number of miles to the new lease. 7500 max maybe?

stickguy

I forgot about the miles rollover. makes it less of an issue if you buy more than you need, and plan to get into a new lease.

benjaminh

Senior road test engineer Jason Kavanagh of Edmunds likes the RDX....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJQw6z01fzA&t=1s

pensfan83

Assuming you renew AFS will:

- Waive half the mileage overage up to 7500 miles. In addition they'll toss you an extra 1K miles for a new lease.
- Roll up to 15K of unused miles to a new lease.
- Double the damage waiver for a total of $1,500.
- Waives disposal fee