Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright

Isn't that a rather rare occurrence?

corvette

Wyler also owns a Nissan dealer here in Louisville - I think it was Neil Huffman before Wyler bought it. 

fintail

We have maybe 5" in my spot in Bellevue. I'm sick so I am home, but I would have gone in otherwise. My street has been plowed/sanded, but I bet some of the hilly neighborhoods to the east are dicey.

cdnpinhead

It's bleachers and popcorn time. The cars may be 98% automated, but you still need to know how to drive. . .or not.

28firefighter

Seattle and Shoreline roads are a joke. Untreated and unplowed. The good news is, that means that most people turn back home before being able to do any significant damage. 

I-5 is a mess, but passable at reduced speed and with some sense of awareness and snow driving capability. State Police were out pacing traffic in a couple places. 520 was also a mess crossing the bridge, but once crossed into Bellevue, mostly clear and wet. 

Overall the Alfa performed admirably and I didn’t have any problems. But I also know how to drive in the snow, so that helps. 

kyfdx

corvette said:

Wyler also owns a Nissan dealer here in Louisville - I think it was Neil Huffman before Wyler bought it. 

Also a Honda dealer in Frankfort.
CDJR dealer about 3 blocks from my house.
Used to have the Honda dealer in Florence, but not sure if he still does.

xwesx

Ya, we had about two inches or so overnight. We don't know what to do with ourselves!

roadburner

On the fuel economy topic, the Clubman is putting up great numbers in the commute to my new job- 36 mpg-42 mpg depending on traffic and how I hit the lights. I will have 150k miles on it when my term ends in December 2024. If it only requires normal maintenance between now and then it will have served its purpose.
Today I drove the Wrangler to keep it limbered up; 15 mpg is just about the best you can hope for, but then I drive it less than 2,000 miles per year.

Sandman6472

More problems with the Versa. The CVT is acting up and Tires Plus says to bring it back to Nissan to be looked at. Also, needs front and rear shocks to the tune of around $1350.00. Told my kid "enough already" as I already threw $550 in January and now this. When does it end? She agreed that the time has come to get a new car. She wants a 5 door hatch and the 2019 Chevy Cruze is her first choice. Drives nice and gets decent mpg's. She wants the safety nannies and Apple Car Play as her must haves. Gave her a whole list of vehicles to start checking out online to see which get decent mpg's and which ones are in her price range which she can afford. Think she's good to go up to $25K plus her 2009 Versa SL with 107K on the clock. Advised her to get the title and have it close at hand. Keep it around 1/2 a tank of petrol and we'll start looking when I go up in a couple of weeks. Think she'd like to have it hold out till the end of March when the ex moves up with her. Turns out the ex is no longer an ex and will become part of the family sometime in 2020. Keeping my thoughts to myself right now!
One question, since she no longer lives here, guess her new vehicle can not act as a punch for me. Because she is definitely going to buy something new by April and have a feeling her sister will want to be trading in her 2008 Hyundai Accent with under 40K still. It's been absolutely flawless except that brake light switch in year 4 covered under warranty. On her 3rd battery and 2nd set of tires now that it's over 10 years old. Both girls have gotten great life out of both their entry level vehicles but this time, they want to move a bit upmarket and get something a bit fancier which I get. Hoping that the finance rates will be a bit low as I hate to see them plunk a lot of cash down and leave their savings on the lower side. But since it's not me buying it for them, they'll make their own decisions here. They just need me to be there and make sure they get a decent deal which is fair to both sides.

marcogallo1986

 No enjoyed reading about the auto shows in your states coming up above and sorry to hear about the snow you’ll been getting. We’ve been lucky knock on wood. 

marcogallo1986

 Send man that’s good but your daughter will be getting new cars soon, they got their moneys worth out of both of them sounds like to me. Type your comment

marcogallo1986

 Nice on your road trip stick guy I guess it was this past weekend? 

stickguy

sandy, when it starts becoming a hassle, that is when it is time to pull the plug. For normal wear items, that you can just do a cost/benefit analysis (payback period) and get it done, but when stuff starts going and you are worried about it, not worth it.

marcogallo1986

Corvette nice on the new bat our  for the truck

corvette

Sandy, look into the warranty on that Nissan CVT. I know I got a notice on my 2009 Altima that the warranty had been extended. I think it was 10 years or 120k from the original purchase date. Would definitely be worth getting fixed before trading.

stickguy

well, if Nissan is going to pay for it, then heck yeah!

henryn

Sandman6472 said:

More problems with the Versa. The CVT is acting up and Tires Plus says to bring it back to Nissan to be looked at. Also, needs front and rear shocks to the tune of around $1350.00.

Wait, wait ... $1,350 for 4 shocks???? On a Nissan Versa???

Holy Smoly Batman.

xwesx

Sandman6472 said:

More problems with the Versa. The CVT is acting up and Tires Plus says to bring it back to Nissan to be looked at. Also, needs front and rear shocks to the tune of around $1350.00. Told my kid "enough already" as I already threw $550 in January and now this. When does it end? She agreed that the time has come to get a new car. She wants a 5 door hatch and the 2019 Chevy Cruze is her first choice. Drives nice and gets decent mpg's. She wants the safety nannies and Apple Car Play as her must haves. Gave her a whole list of vehicles to start checking out online to see which get decent mpg's and which ones are in her price range which she can afford. Think she's good to go up to $25K plus her 2009 Versa SL with 107K on the clock. Advised her to get the title and have it close at hand. Keep it around 1/2 a tank of petrol and we'll start looking when I go up in a couple of weeks. Think she'd like to have it hold out till the end of March when the ex moves up with her. Turns out the ex is no longer an ex and will become part of the family sometime in 2020. Keeping my thoughts to myself right now!
One question, since she no longer lives here, guess her new vehicle can not act as a punch for me. Because she is definitely going to buy something new by April and have a feeling her sister will want to be trading in her 2008 Hyundai Accent with under 40K still. It's been absolutely flawless except that brake light switch in year 4 covered under warranty. On her 3rd battery and 2nd set of tires now that it's over 10 years old. Both girls have gotten great life out of both their entry level vehicles but this time, they want to move a bit upmarket and get something a bit fancier which I get. Hoping that the finance rates will be a bit low as I hate to see them plunk a lot of cash down and leave their savings on the lower side. But since it's not me buying it for them, they'll make their own decisions here. They just need me to be there and make sure they get a decent deal which is fair to both sides.

If she wants a Cruze, I strongly suggest a lightly used one (lots out there to be had with less than 10K miles, new model year or 2018) at substantial savings. My personal choice would be diesel, but her money, her choice.

mjfloyd1

$1350 is insane for shocks and struts on a Versa

https://www.1aauto.com/nissan-versa-complete-strut-assembly-and-shock-absorber-kit/i/1assp01099?f=1049245&y=2009&utm_campaign=gb_csv_br&utm_content=SSP&gclid=CjwKCAiA4t_iBRApEiwAn-vt-8t9-oREDzY4q9VODxDveKbdHo8X9HDoFVWQ3VSm2LB_oJTH-EFfHRoCQ1MQAvD_BwE

stickguy

well, I assume the fronts are full strut assemblies, and entirely possible they are throwing in new axles or some such. And at that mileage, may not even be that essential. Probably nice to have, but if they aren't shot and leaking, and you can align the car, let them go.

if the CVT is on the fritz, that will hurt at trade in. But putting new shocks/struts all around, you aren't seeing that money back.

stickguy

oh, I learned the couple of times I actually had an old enough car that really did need that job done, to shop around. Way different costs from different shops.

stickguy

speaking of used, I decided to take a look. Not sure what they go for new, but not a bad asking price I guess for a 10K mile CPO unit. Though this model I guess is lighter on equipment.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/749016145/overview/

a Premier. No clue what that adds over an LT though.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/761898878/overview/

qbrozen

mjfloyd1 said:

$1350 is insane for shocks and struts on a Versa

https://www.1aauto.com/nissan-versa-complete-strut-assembly-and-shock-absorber-kit/i/1assp01099?f=1049245&y=2009&utm_campaign=gb_csv_br&utm_content=SSP&gclid=CjwKCAiA4t_iBRApEiwAn-vt-8t9-oREDzY4q9VODxDveKbdHo8X9HDoFVWQ3VSm2LB_oJTH-EFfHRoCQ1MQAvD_BwE

yeah, something is amiss.
As you found, $200 for all 4 corners, PLUS I found full upper and lower control arms with ball joints for well under $200 and yet another $200 for CV axles and hub assemblies on both sides and $65 for rear springs. So ~$650 for every damned thing I can think of. 3 hrs labor would be plenty, but let's call it 4. At $125/hr, that's another $500. I suppose at $135/hr plus tax ... I guess you can get to $1350 ... but I seriously doubt they are talking about all the parts I just listed.

stickguy

throw in $100 for an alignment. And plenty of parts mark up, since they aren't selling you the parts for what you can get them cheap off the internet.

henryn

I remember a few years back, I had a 2003 GMC supercab pickup. It was maybe 10 years old, about 110k miles, in pretty decent shape. I ran it in to NTW for a set of tires, and the guy there tried very hard to sell me a set of front shocks, somewhere north of $600 installed. I nearly fell out.

I wound up ordering a good pair of Monroe shocks (better than what he was trying to sell me) for about $70 or $80 from Rock Auto. Took about an hour each to install -- what can I say, I'm old and slow.

Michaell

@Sandman6472 - I'll let others provide advice about the Versa. But, having been "consulted" to help my son buy his first new car last year, I'll share with you what I learned.

I know it's in our DNA to test drive pretty much everything under the sun, but not everyone wants to do that. Sounds like your daughter wants a Cruze. Don't push anything else onto her - she's an adult, it's her money, and her choice.

My son wanted an Elantra GT - same thing as your kid, wanted a hatch. There are a lot of good choice out there - Kia Forte, Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla hatch, along with the Cruze. But, I didn't suggest any of those alternatives to him. I went with him to the Hyundai dealer on Saturday night, where he sat in and test drove it. He liked it, so we crunched some numbers after we left, then went back Sunday morning, made one offer, which was accepted. I left him at the dealer working with the F&I folks (his mom was also there, buying a Santa Fe the same day).

I do agree that looking for a slightly used Cruze, equipped the way she wants and the color she wants, might be a good idea. But, don't try to have her test drive a bunch of your choices - it's likely a waste of time, and, worse, she might resent you for it.

xwesx

Hold this for me, will ya? LOL

Cruze: They're really a killer value, LOTS of inventory out there, and a really decent car from all accounts.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

throw in $100 for an alignment. And plenty of parts mark up, since they aren't selling you the parts for what you can get them cheap off the internet.

I know it is not reality, but being a resaler, I would think they should be buying them for less than what a consumer can buy them for and COULD sell them to you for the internet price. I mean, they are already killing me on the labor. Geesh.

graphicguy

corvette said:

Wyler also owns a Nissan dealer here in Louisville - I think it was Neil Huffman before Wyler bought it. 

Didn’t know any of that. I thought Wyler was only in OH. He must be on a buying spree! Mercedes just seems a little out of character for him.

stickguy

Anybody like these as a toy? Looks clean, and certainly low miles!

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2006-pontiac-solstice-2dr_convertible-used-18537641.html

stickguy

No pictures yet, but I assume this is gorgeous. Much more luxurious toy.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2007-jaguar-xk-2dr_convertible-used-18561793.html

au1994

stickguy said:

No pictures yet, but I assume this is gorgeous. Much more luxurious toy.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2007-jaguar-xk-2dr_convertible-used-18561793.html

Wow, that’s going to be pretty.

henryn

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

throw in $100 for an alignment. And plenty of parts mark up, since they aren't selling you the parts for what you can get them cheap off the internet.

I know it is not reality, but being a resaler, I would think they should be buying them for less than what a consumer can buy them for and COULD sell them to you for the internet price. I mean, they are already killing me on the labor. Geesh.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-= end quoted material=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you on this one. The independent repair shop does NOT buy those parts for less that what a consumer can buy them. They tend to buy from whomever is the most convenient for them. Closest, quickest, often with delivery to their shop. And often with net 30 terms. In many (most?) cases, this winds up being more expensive (to the shop) than buying from Rock Auto or Amazon or ...

They cannot wait several days for delivery of parts, they need them today. A service stall is a very expensive item, and you can't have it tied up waiting for parts. And if the parts are wrong, they need them exchanged, now, today, not next week.

Most independent repair shops do not make a killing, either on parts or labor. Like most small businesses, some of them fail, some of them manage to make ends meet, and a few thrive. One of the biggest problems is "do overs". They are human, they sometimes make mistakes, don't get it right the first time. Which means they have to do it over, for free. And sometimes the repair work fails, through no fault of their own. It is a very tough business to try and make a living.

I don't want to sound like CarDoc. He gets a bit carried away, and some of his statements are over the top. But I really wouldn't recommend to any of my younger relatives that they enter this field. Seriously wouldn't.

qbrozen

I agree with you. I was going to get into parts convenience and how different jobs call for different markups, but kept it brief instead. How they charge labor is on them. But when we are talking simple suspension replacement, I don’t see much room for error nor diagnostics here. I would not argue with big diagnostic charges for big jobs. But that’s me.

28firefighter

And, in a display of true public works incompetence here in Seattle, 3/4 of the city is shut down again because they couldn't treat the roads in time. Now we have an ice skating rink on our hands.

Oh, and we might get hit again with another storm on Friday/Saturday.

fintail

Bellevue roads weren't too bad earlier this morning. Some ice, but the 'ol Bluetec made it without any drama. All of the arterials on my route had been plowed, only a patch here and there if anything iffy.

I await the upcoming possible storm. I might actually try to drive in it just for kicks.

henryn

There is reasonable, semi-reasonable, and then there is downright crazy.

I mentioned, up above, the NTW store wanting $600 to do the front shocks on a 2003 GMC pickup. Downright crazy, and an attempt to rip off the consumer.

The Tires Plus that SandMan mentioned wanting $1,350 for shocks / struts on a 2009 Versa, I would have to call that an attempted ripoff. I find it very hard to imagine how they would justify that. I remember asking the salesman at NTW (and that’s what he was, a salesman) how much of that $600 plus was labor and how much for parts. It was roughly 50-50 as I recall, and I couldn’t decide which was crazier, the parts or the labor.

Mr_Shiftright

mjfloyd1 said:

$1350 is insane for shocks and struts on a Versa

https://www.1aauto.com/nissan-versa-complete-strut-assembly-and-shock-absorber-kit/i/1assp01099?f=1049245&y=2009&utm_campaign=gb_csv_br&utm_content=SSP&gclid=CjwKCAiA4t_iBRApEiwAn-vt-8t9-oREDzY4q9VODxDveKbdHo8X9HDoFVWQ3VSm2LB_oJTH-EFfHRoCQ1MQAvD_BwE

Depends where you live however. If labor rates are $150/hr, and the parts are marked up by the repair shop, and there's an 8 or 9% sales tax, it could very well hit $1350

28firefighter

fintail said:

Bellevue roads weren't too bad earlier this morning. Some ice, but the 'ol Bluetec made it without any drama. All of the arterials on my route had been plowed, only a patch here and there if anything iffy.

I await the upcoming possible storm. I might actually try to drive in it just for kicks.

I drove yesterday in it - it was fine in Bellevue - pretty impressed with their snow removal and road treatment. Everywhere on the Seattle side...terrible.

pensfan83

I think my parents reign of Ford vehicles may be coming to an end. The Sync/Nav/BT on my Mom's Escape is on the fritz and apparently it's a $1,500 fix for a module. Car turns 3 in June but they're over on mileage by a few thousand My dad's been in contact with the service manager but they seem unwilling to do anything and rebuffed the request to split the repair. Given the business my family has given that dealer over the last 30+ years he's not happy with the response. Combined with the failure of an a/c compressor, motor for the power liftgate, and something with the sunroof I think he's finally open to a different brand. I'm expecting pigs to fly by my office window.

ab348

Seems that Ford's reputation for being very tightfisted with warranty goodwill continues.

henryn

Mr_Shiftright said:

mjfloyd1 said:

$1350 is insane for shocks and struts on a Versa

https://www.1aauto.com/nissan-versa-complete-strut-assembly-and-shock-absorber-kit/i/1assp01099?f=1049245&y=2009&utm_campaign=gb_csv_br&utm_content=SSP&gclid=CjwKCAiA4t_iBRApEiwAn-vt-8t9-oREDzY4q9VODxDveKbdHo8X9HDoFVWQ3VSm2LB_oJTH-EFfHRoCQ1MQAvD_BwE

Depends where you live however. If labor rates are $150/hr, and the parts are marked up by the repair shop, and there's an 8 or 9% sales tax, it could very well hit $1350

If the parts are $200, and the shop gets a 40% markup, that would be $280.

This was supposed to be a "Tires Plus", as I remember the original post by Sandman. Tires Plus is not getting $150 labor rate, no mechanic worth anywhere near $150 per hour is working in a tire shop. Maybe $100, $125 tops?

I don't have access to a flat rate manual, but I suspect replacing the shocks and struts would be 4 hours maximum, more likely 2.5 or 3, but let's go with 4.

$280 for parts, 4 hours at $125 is $500, that sums up to $780. Which in my opinion is rather high, but almost half of what Sandman was quoted ( $1,350 ).

marcogallo1986

 Wow 20 firefighter, this is a good thing then in the way. Sometimes you’re going to get a bad car and it finally happened to them. That’s what I’m going to happen with my aunt and uncle with their 2012 pilot, and open the rise in the trying other brands. Everything has their problems I’m glad your parents will try another brand finally. Ha ha ha 

marcogallo1986

 Forgot about that extension on the warranty for the sea VT Sandman yes see if they’ll cover it. If not then just want to treat him as is. Liberates are crazy here with mechanic shops to have used a few for the Thunderbird, the west one or used, was $120 an hour back at the beginning of December, the one I use last year was $95 an hour. It was a Nother shop I had called prior that was $110 an hour. 

marcogallo1986

 Nice cars posted above stick guy. 

Mr_Shiftright

You get what you pay for, in terms of parts I think, and also how thorough a job you do. If you're putting on 4 quality shocks and struts, + strut bearings + strut mounts, then adding labor and tax, you could certainly break $1,000 bucks easy.

kyfdx

Couple of things..

Shops don't pay what you pay.
Wholesale price from local auto parts vendor or the dealer are about 30% under retail.
But, they charge you retail.
A shop or tire store can't pay the overhead, just on labor. They sell you the parts, they have to make a profit on the parts.

Shops can't order $50 struts from RockAuto. They need parts the same day. They might get Monroe parts or KYB or Sachs from the local auto parts distributor, or they might get dealer OEM parts. But, none of them are $50 for a strut.

Even tire stores have to pay for decent mechanics. I doubt any of them are charging $150/hour for labor (unless it's Manhattan), but they aren't charging $75/hr, either.

Getting four struts installed for under $800 seems like a fantasy.

pensfan83

ab348 said:

Seems that Ford's reputation for being very tightfisted with warranty goodwill continues.

I personally didn't think a split was unreasonable, if it were my car I would have considered 60/40. I expect he'll need to go up a level or two to get a sympathetic ear.

ronsteve

corvette said:

Wyler also owns a Nissan dealer here in Louisville - I think it was Neil Huffman before Wyler bought it. 

Yes Wyler has Nissan and Honda in Louisville, and Toyota just across the river in Clarksville, IN. Also think they had a few brands in Florence, KY.

henryn

kyfdx said:

Couple of things..

Shops don't pay what you pay.
Wholesale price from local auto parts vendor or the dealer are about 30% under retail.
But, they charge you retail.
A shop or tire store can't pay the overhead, just on labor. They sell you the parts, they have to make a profit on the parts.

Shops can't order $50 struts from RockAuto. They need parts the same day. They might get Monroe parts or KYB or Sachs from the local auto parts distributor, or they might get dealer OEM parts. But, none of them are $50 for a strut.

Even tire stores have to pay for decent mechanics. I doubt any of them are charging $150/hour for labor (unless it's Manhattan), but they aren't charging $75/hr, either.

Getting four struts installed for under $800 seems like a fantasy.

I believe I already made that point about the repair shop buying locally.

And ... you're missing an important point here. It's not 4 struts, it's 2 struts and 2 shocks.

Rock Auto is going to get you $269 plus shipping, and that's buying 2 complete strut kits for the front, and 2 shocks for the rear. Monroe, decent brand.

My local O'Reilly Auto Parts is going to get $493 plus tax for the exact same Monroe part numbers. That is a BIG difference, one of the worst I have seen.

Going to an independent shop, you probably will be out $800 for the job. But $800 is still a far cry from $1,350.

And if you have any idea what you're doing, you can order the parts from Rock Auto, probably run you about $300 bottom line with shipping. And then find a local shade tree mechanic to install them for another $100 or $150.

If you don't know what you're doing, and/or don't know any shade tree mechanics, then $800 is probably fair. But not $1,350.