Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

I have 3 within 20 minutes of me. and they list $1,000 incentive on them! Pricey sticker price though.

stickguy

28firefighter said:

I’ve been seeing that a lease on a Z4 M40i is a decent lease deal relatively speaking. Basically the same car, no?

pretty much the convertible version of the Supra.

breld

Here’s that review I was thinking of.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/2-series/2020/2020-bmw-2-series-gran-coupe-first-drive/

Seems a bit awkward to me in the pics - the X2 seems to be a better overall approach.

corvette

breld said:

Here’s that review I was thinking of.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/2-series/2020/2020-bmw-2-series-gran-coupe-first-drive/

Seems a bit awkward to me in the pics - the X2 seems to be a better overall approach.

Yeah, the proportions are a bit too much like the MB CLA, but at least the hardware seems to be superior to the Mercedes Jetta.

Michaell

Lots of folks have commented on how similar the 2-series GC looks to the Kia Forte.

stickguy

I like a lot about it. But it needs to be a hatchback. Otherwise has a lot of what I would want. Right size, quick, handles well for street driving, comfortable. Overall though, an X2 likely makes more sense. Or the mini version that has actual utility!

graphicguy

I agree with @roadburner ....some dealers think Supras and Stingers are dear and high demand vehicles. They’re not. Personally, I think if you can find a volume dealer that moves a lot of cars for either Toyota or KIA, you’re more likely to get more realistic prices on both.

I do have to wonder what the Toyota service dept has to do to service a Supra. There’s nothing else in their lineup that uses the same parts or put together the exact same way.

Is there one or two techs who do nothing but Supras? They must be akin to the Maytag repairman given how few Supras are sold.

kyfdx

Three trips to the Toyota dealer since the Supra came out. Same one sitting in the showroom the whole time.

stickguy

What did they Do with the BRZ since that was all Subaru underneath? Though I imagine the tech needed to diagnose a BMW is more significant.

graphicguy

As soon as I say I’m not selling the TLX, I get an email from one of the service writers at my Acura dealer. I don’t recall ever having mentioning to them about selling my TLX, but maybe I made a some off handed statement the last time I was there (oil change right after I bought the Stinger in January).

Anyway, she said she always liked my red on red, and it was the only one the dealership had sold. She wanted to know if I still had it, and if I was looking to sell it. She knows the history and the pristine shape it’s in.

While I don’t think it’s an issue, she also asked if we kept her inquiry private between she and I as the dealership might prefer to have any sale go through them. Private sale, if it happens, so not sure why they’d be involved.

I told her I’d think about it and if interested would let her know in a week or so with a price.

ab348

With so many more practical vehicles now offering performance and handling not all that far off what cars like the Supra can deliver, it probably shouldn't be surprising that it isn't setting the sales charts on fire. I wonder if the BMW roots hurt it as well. It seemed to me that a big part of the mystique around older Supras for the intended market was the Toyota DNA. Plus pure sports cars don't ever sell all that well anyway. Even the current (and far less expensive) 86 is pretty uncommon to see, at least around here.

[Deleted User]

kyfdx said:

Three trips to the Toyota dealer since the Supra came out. Same one sitting in the showroom the whole time.

We were at our local dealer over the weekend, think they had 6 or 7 sitting outside, one inside that was locked...

kyfdx

dad23 said:

kyfdx said:

Three trips to the Toyota dealer since the Supra came out. Same one sitting in the showroom the whole time.

We were at our local dealer over the weekend, think they had 6 or 7 sitting outside, one inside that was locked...

I don't go looking for them. Interesting, but the looks are off-putting. Too bad the BMW doesn't come in a coupe, as it's much more attractive.

roadburner

I know that a lot of the Toyota fanboys don’t consider the car to be a Toyota- never mind a Supra.
I would also be concerned about service at a Toyota dealer. The tech would need ISTA+ to service and diagnose the BMW systems.

stickguy

If I want a bmw I would rather just buy one. And not deal with Toyota service, etc.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

Speaking if Toyotas. Came across this poor victim of a hate crime. https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/toyota/land_cruiser/2324677.html

Why not just buy a Jeep?

stickguy

Everybody has one of those.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

As soon as I say I’m not selling the TLX, I get an email from one of the service writers at my Acura dealer. I don’t recall ever having mentioning to them about selling my TLX, but maybe I made a some off handed statement the last time I was there (oil change right after I bought the Stinger in January).

Anyway, she said she always liked my red on red, and it was the only one the dealership had sold. She wanted to know if I still had it, and if I was looking to sell it. She knows the history and the pristine shape it’s in.

While I don’t think it’s an issue, she also asked if we kept her inquiry private between she and I as the dealership might prefer to have any sale go through them. Private sale, if it happens, so not sure why they’d be involved.

I told her I’d think about it and if interested would let her know in a week or so with a price.

Are you sure she’s not more interested in you than the car?

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

As soon as I say I’m not selling the TLX, I get an email from one of the service writers at my Acura dealer. I don’t recall ever having mentioning to them about selling my TLX, but maybe I made a some off handed statement the last time I was there (oil change right after I bought the Stinger in January).

Anyway, she said she always liked my red on red, and it was the only one the dealership had sold. She wanted to know if I still had it, and if I was looking to sell it. She knows the history and the pristine shape it’s in.

While I don’t think it’s an issue, she also asked if we kept her inquiry private between she and I as the dealership might prefer to have any sale go through them. Private sale, if it happens, so not sure why they’d be involved.

I told her I’d think about it and if interested would let her know in a week or so with a price.

Are you sure she’s not more interested in you than the car?

She could be my daughter. Nice lady, though!

tifighter

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

As soon as I say I’m not selling the TLX, I get an email from one of the service writers at my Acura dealer. I don’t recall ever having mentioning to them about selling my TLX, but maybe I made a some off handed statement the last time I was there (oil change right after I bought the Stinger in January).

Anyway, she said she always liked my red on red, and it was the only one the dealership had sold. She wanted to know if I still had it, and if I was looking to sell it. She knows the history and the pristine shape it’s in.

While I don’t think it’s an issue, she also asked if we kept her inquiry private between she and I as the dealership might prefer to have any sale go through them. Private sale, if it happens, so not sure why they’d be involved.

I told her I’d think about it and if interested would let her know in a week or so with a price.

Are you sure she’s not more interested in you than the car?

She could be my daughter. Nice lady, though!

AND?

AtlGhost

Since we are on the topic of Kia dealers being precious with their Stingers, I was at the Kia dealer in the northwest Atlanta suburbs, owned by a reasonably reputable local dealer group, this morning for service. They had a ceramic silver over red Stinger GT2 REAR drive in the showroom. The sticker was $51 and change, but added to it was $3000 in add ons. Nitro fill tires, VIN etching, window tint, etc., making the sticker price $55,000.

Since dealers are so busy these days, the UCM himself was all over me when he saw me looking at it. His response to my interest only being if we start at the actual sticker was "when all the dealers do it, we have to do it too in order to compete." He had no interest in negotiating at all. I begged off, reminding me once again why Kia will never be more than the entry-level brand they are.

We also have a Lexus, so I realize I'm spoiled by their dealership experience, and I really want to like the Stinger, but the dealership experience is the main reason I won't buy one.

tifighter

I do like today's random craigslist posting. Could you do a RHD with a stick?

kyfdx

tifighter said:

I do like today's random craigslist posting. Could you do a RHD with a stick?

That's really cool... If you bring it to my area, you'll never see another one on the road.

fintail

That one has been listed for awhile. Price doesn't seem out of line for the condition from what I can see, but I'm not sure I could shoehorn myself into something like that.

qbrozen

tifighter said:

I do like today's random craigslist posting. Could you do a RHD with a stick?

I'm confident I could quickly get used to shifting that way.

tifighter

fintail said:

That one has been listed for awhile. Price doesn't seem out of line for the condition from what I can see, but I'm not sure I could shoehorn myself into something like that.

I like the silver. They're always red, then yellow.

pensfan83

I get alerts from BaT all the time on those. Cool little cars.

fintail

Not sure if I have seen a silver one in person. There are a few of these (and Toyota Sera) running around this era. I have a little Japanese diecast Beat I bought back around 1994 or so.

roadburner

AtlGhost said:

Since we are on the topic of Kia dealers being precious with their Stingers, I was at the Kia dealer in the northwest Atlanta suburbs, owned by a reasonably reputable local dealer group, this morning for service. They had a ceramic silver over red Stinger GT2 REAR drive in the showroom. The sticker was $51 and change, but added to it was $3000 in add ons. Nitro fill tires, VIN etching, window tint, etc., making the sticker price $55,000.

Since dealers are so busy these days, the UCM himself was all over me when he saw me looking at it. His response to my interest only being if we start at the actual sticker was "when all the dealers do it, we have to do it too in order to compete." He had no interest in negotiating at all. I begged off, reminding me once again why Kia will never be more than the entry-level brand they are.

That’s a real shame- my favorite color combination and RWD. I check out the local dealers online inventory and the number of Stingers remains constant. In the Kentucky area I have told several nearby dealers that I would like a RWD GT1 and the responses have been uniformly unenthusiastic.

stickguy

I can drive it. Just not sure I can fit in it.

ab348

Automotive News reporting today that Acura is dropping the RLX after the 2020 model year. Better run out and get one now!!

andres3

ab348 said:

Automotive News reporting today that Acura is dropping the RLX after the 2020 model year. Better run out and get one now!!

Any used RLX sale could make the claim "EXTREMELY RARE" already.

tifighter

Re: the Beat - I wonder what trying to service something like this actually entails? I would think that any shop that services Hondas wouldn't find anything here that looked too weird, that doesn't mean that they would actually service one. I know there are body parts, interior bits etc that are probably hard to find, and I wouldn't expect them to deal with that. But would they do a clutch job on it? I'm just thinking out loud...

breld

Michaell said:

Lots of folks have commented on how similar the 2-series GC looks to the Kia Forte.

Wow. That’s all I’m going to see now.

breld

stickguy said:

I like a lot about it. But it needs to be a hatchback. Otherwise has a lot of what I would want. Right size, quick, handles well for street driving, comfortable. Overall though, an X2 likely makes more sense. Or the mini version that has actual utility!

Well, as you pointed out in your own post, the hatchback version is already out, and available as CPO at your local BMW store!

breld

The Supra thing is interesting to me.

As others have pointed out, it seems the Supra enthusiasts may not really think of it as a proper Supra. And the BMW enthusiasts would prefer the full BMW experience as opposed to dealing with the Toyota network.

So the target audience ends up being rather slim - enthusiasts who are looking for a seriously fun sports car and don’t care about brand. And maybe the BMW enthusiasts who really want a coupe version of the Z4 and can overlook the branding.

I thought the price difference was larger between the two, but I just built a Z4 m40i for mid-$60k’s. Supras are what...mid-$50k’s on up?

All this is to say...my hope is the modern Supra doesn’t hold its value all that great and can be had for, I don’t know, $30-35k within a year or two?

ab348

Here’s an article touting the best current lease deals, but I expect the regulars here could come up with something better. For better or worse, here it is:

‪https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/best-car-lease-deals

explorerx4

New gen Supra sales:
In 2019 in 6 months 2884 , 2020 first quarter 1013.

stickguy

pictures of the famous $995 Santa Fe I was following. actually does not look all that bad, considering the miles on it.

https://www.subaruofcherryhill.com/used/Hyundai/2009-Hyundai-Santa+Fe-cherry-hill-nj-bce8707b0a0e0a1716b9777b5840d0e8.htm

28firefighter

I read over on reddit that dealers are moving tons of these wholesale cars on the retail side because the auctions are closed. If it runs and drives, it is definitely is worth $1000.

oldfarmer50

tifighter said:

I do like today's random craigslist posting. Could you do a RHD with a stick?

“Professionally” imported? What would an unprofessional import be like? They shove it off the boat 3 miles out and let it swim ashore?

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

pictures of the famous $995 Santa Fe I was following. actually does not look all that bad, considering the miles on it.

https://www.subaruofcherryhill.com/used/Hyundai/2009-Hyundai-Santa+Fe-cherry-hill-nj-bce8707b0a0e0a1716b9777b5840d0e8.htm

That link takes you to the dealer’s used car listings. No Santa Fe but I do like that low milage Buick Century. Perfect winter beater car.

oldfarmer50

Just.....because.

https://youtu.be/c8kzfBW1a9g

stickguy

it was there yesterday when I posted. I assume they must have sold it and took the link down.

corvette

It looked decent for $1,000. Some rust on the hood and the driver’s seat looked worn out.

graphicguy

@AtlGhost and @roadburner ....I have a theory about buying a Stinger. One, when someone walks in a Kia store and heads for the Stinger in the showroom, sales people eyes light up because of the possibility of selling a car and getting something more than a “mini” commission.

2nd, they’ve never had something similar to the Stinger in their showroom. As such, they really don’t know how to sell them.

3rd, the stores’ management has pumped the sales staff with some false bravado that the Stinger buyer will pay anything for one.

All of the above, of course, is false.

My dealer is high volume. They view the Stinger as just another unit they can move through the dealership. Their stock is usually 60+ days old. They want to move them. Mine is a ‘19. They were flooded with ‘20s when I bought it. They wanted to move it. If it wasn’t the only one they had left that ticked all my boxes, I would have waited to get a red interior. As it is, I like mine just fine as pearl white over light grey.

graphicguy

breld said:

The Supra thing is interesting to me.

As others have pointed out, it seems the Supra enthusiasts may not really think of it as a proper Supra. And the BMW enthusiasts would prefer the full BMW experience as opposed to dealing with the Toyota network.

So the target audience ends up being rather slim - enthusiasts who are looking for a seriously fun sports car and don’t care about brand. And maybe the BMW enthusiasts who really want a coupe version of the Z4 and can overlook the branding.

I thought the price difference was larger between the two, but I just built a Z4 m40i for mid-$60k’s. Supras are what...mid-$50k’s on up?

All this is to say...my hope is the modern Supra doesn’t hold its value all that great and can be had for, I don’t know, $30-35k within a year or two?

I actually think that’s an excellent plan. The people who can afford a Supra will likely take good care of it, and after they tire of it, will eat the MSRP price they paid. In a couple of years, I may be interested in one in that $30K-$35K price range.

roadburner

In a couple of years the M2 Competitions will also be hovering around $40K.
Decisions, decisions...

corvette

roadburner said:

In a couple of years the M2 Competitions will also be hovering around $40K.
Decisions, decisions...

Do a breld and buy one, keep it a few months, and trade it for the other. And if you have buyer’s remorse, trade it again for one comparable to the first one you bought.

nyccarguy

roadburner said:

In a couple of years the M2 Competitions will also be hovering around $40K.
Decisions, decisions...

You are driving your Mini everyday, right? How much are you driving the M235i? How many miles are on it?