Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

$60k sticker for a 330? Wow. Love the blue, but would be so much nicer with a non-black interior. But with that configuration, must be a pretty rare bird. Probably fun to drive.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

I try not to pay too much attention. One of the small Jeeps is just a Fiat 500XL I think. Maybe the renegade?

I think they discontinued the Renegade and the 200 because they were built on a Fiat platforms and well...sucked.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

So I found an interesting G20. Obviously not ordered by a poseur/wearer, as it is RWD(as it should be) and it has the Track Handling Package- which gets you M Sport Brakes, an M Sport Differential, and the Adaptive M Suspension. The only downside is that it is slow- it's barely a 13 second car. I'm looking into whether Dinan has a tune in the pipeline, as another 50-75 hp would probably add enough grunt to make it entertaining.

Jason Cammisa at Road & Track reckons the G20 is not a complete return to form, but does note,

"The 330i is, at least when equipped with all the M-Performance bits is, a substantial dynamic step forward from the Novocain-steering and Buick-suspension F30, catapulting the 3-series back into the thick of competition. Same goes for its interior, which has been elevated from drabby-shabby to perfectly nice."

On top of that, Car and Driver picked it over the S60, G70, and Giulia. The Brit magazines all give it 4-5 stars as well. I did like the G20 M Sport loaner I had recently, despite it being AWD- so I may go check this one out.

Is that a good price for a 2 year old car? At 20% off per year I’d just spitball at least a $24k discount. Better bring a sandwich.

tifighter

ronsteve said:

So I think the car will probably sell too quickly to become a saga, but I am seriously thinking of trading out of the RDX if I can get that XC70 I posted. The RDX is a plenty capable vehicle, but ever since I got it not quite two years ago, it's still a SUV and I'm not sure I can say I have really loved it. The siren song of wagons has continued to call out to me, and seeing such a nice copy of a Volvo wagon, with the right age and mileage to be a DD, at the right price point... I'm thinking it's worth a look!

I'm not sure I can make the numbers work to justify it, or be able to sell such a move to the Mrs.

I do think I'll make some calls on Monday and take a look on Tuesday, if the Volvo is still around.

Ironically, I traded a RDX for my XC70 platinum, but it was for the added practicality (real roof rack and lower roof height for kayaks, tow hitch for bikes, more ground clearance, etc). And it was reliable. But I can't say that it drove any better, even though it was a 'wagon'. I had the Polestar tune, too. The heated steering wheel and dynamic cruise w/full stop made the switch worth it, though. YMMV...

ronsteve

tifighter said:

Ironically, I traded a RDX for my XC70 platinum, but it was for the added practicality (real roof rack and lower roof height for kayaks, tow hitch for bikes, more ground clearance, etc). And it was reliable. But I can't say that it drove any better, even though it was a 'wagon'. I had the Polestar tune, too. The heated steering wheel and dynamic cruise w/full stop made the switch worth it, though. YMMV...

Thanks @tifighter for the reply! I remembered you having the XC70 but didn't realize you traded a RDX for it! This would be an interesting swap if I did it, going from a 15 RDX to a 13 XC70, but the mileage is essentially the same (67K on my RDX vs 70K on the XC70). I spent 11 years with my V70, hence the love of Volvo wagons, but just couldn't hit my price point when it was time to replace it.

ronsteve

So while we're talking about this XC70...

Carfax shows a lot of "electrical" in its history. Should I be worried that this car has gremlins?

History includes the following:
Computer reprogrammed at the 20K service
Battery replaced at 27K, Engine/powertrain computer/module reprogrammed, Computer reprogrammed
Battery replaced again at 42K, then electrical system checked 4 weeks later at 43K

Do I need to avoid this car as a lemon? Or is there more of a reflection on the dealer service dept? Carfax shows no more service entries after the one at 43K, which was almost 3 years and 27K miles ago. Who knows where the original owner got it serviced after the factory warranty expired and he/she quit going to a Volvo dealer.

Hoping that if I go to test drive it, I can run it by the local Volvo specialist for a once-over.

ab348

I would run, not walk, away. Electrical woes like that scare me.

stickguy

the battery is odd. Not sure if worth passing on it for that though. Could be a fluke. But the reprogramming items are very common. Pretty much every time you go in for annual service they do some updates, and carfax can show those as computer reprogrammed or some such.

sda

I question frequent car fax entries at service intervals, trim checked, ac performance checked, computer or electrical checked. Were these issues or just routine checks that the service department performed? If I see the same but out of sequence, like one or the same say weeks apart, not at a service interval, red flags go up. That makes me very suspicious if the car is a problem child.

stickguy

saw the owner of the Red Supra in my neighborhood. Definitely a mid-life crisis/celebrating empty nest situation! Guy probably 60ish, bald up top with a ring of silver hair, pot belly. My guess, a common demographic (more so than younger, hip people that don't have the money for one. Breld excluded of course).

stickguy

sda said:

I question frequent car fax entries at service intervals, trim checked, ac performance checked, computer or electrical checked. Were these issues or just routine checks that the service department performed? If I see the same but out of sequence, like one or the same say weeks apart, not at a service interval, red flags go up. That makes me very suspicious if the car is a problem child.

I think sometimes the entries are just entered funny, not that it had frequent problems. Or possibly it went in, needed something that had to be ordered, and went back to have it installed. Maybe a recall came up right after a service appointment. Lots of possibilities. Just check the car out and see how it is and go from there.

also, having a clean carfax is not a good reason to buy it. Not having entries doesn't mean it had no needs, just that whoever did the work didn't report to Carfax.

best option is if the dealer has the records and can pull them up and go over with you. Usually don't get that lucky though.

sda

Exactly, I find a car fax helpful but not gospel. For a while my dealer provided a periodic car fax summary for the Accord that documented all service provided and an approximate value of the car, trying to entice a new purchase. Some of the entries were bogus and made me laugh. Nothing horrible, I guess just checking the boxes.

stickguy

certain things are useful. Like an accident reported (though often can't tell severity, at least you know to look). Or a big service item, like "clutch replaced" or brakes done.

kyfdx

Volvo aficionados

My son is looking for a used wagon, once his Tacoma lease is up.

I know there used to be AWD issues in the '00s. Any models or powertrains to avoid, regarding AWD models?

Thanks!

stickguy

There is a nice looking V70 CC out there right now!

how old and cheap is he looking? I would stick with the 2.5T if possible, otherwise the 3.0 T6 model (going to be pricier). Avoid the 2.0t drive-E engines from the earlier model years (2016 I think for AWD models),

Everything older had the same AWD system I believe. So you have to worry about the angle gear stuff. Of course, if you find one that has been replaced already ($$) could be OK. I am not sure if the latest models use a different design on not on the SP chassis' But again, those are going to be a lot more money.

does he actually need AWD? If I was getting an older model I would look to stay with a FWD. Just a lot less to go wrong. Or buy/lease newer to get warranty.

usual disclaimer: I don't actually know much. I just think I do! Though I do read a lot of forums on Swedespeed still. Those are always fun.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

There is a nice looking V70 CC out there right now!

how old and cheap is he looking? I would stick with the 2.5T if possible, otherwise the 3.0 T6 model (going to be pricier). Avoid the 2.0t drive-E engines from the earlier model years (2016 I think for AWD models),

Everything older had the same AWD system I believe. So you have to worry about the angle gear stuff. Of course, if you find one that has been replaced already ($$) could be OK. I am not sure if the latest models use a different design on not on the SP chassis' But again, those are going to be a lot more money.

does he actually need AWD? If I was getting an older model I would look to stay with a FWD. Just a lot less to go wrong. Or buy/lease newer to get warranty.

usual disclaimer: I don't actually know much. I just think I do! Though I do read a lot of forums on Swedespeed still. Those are always fun.

Looking at mostly older models. 2000-2011. Limited budget.

Yes, told him FWD would be a lot cheaper, but he is 26.. only so much you can tell him.

The angle gear? Where is that in the drivetrain?

stickguy

QB can probably explain the details of the mechanicals in his sleep, but it basically is part of the differential that connects to the drive shaft to the rear. Sounds somewhat like a U Joint to me, but it is what takes the power from the trans and routes it to the back. Very expensive to replace, but I think in some cases they can just be resealed (I assume they just start leaking first). Very common to see referenced in any ad, and on the Volvo forums one of the first things mentioned. If you aren't off roading I really don't think there is much benefit to the AWD on one of these. But not my money!

on that criteria, I would look for a V70 FWD T model (the 2.4 or 2.5T engine). Base cars are even cheaper and easier to maintain, but slow. Might be fine with a newer 3.2 engine FWD also. No turbo. Smooth engine. Not super fast (but much better than a 2.4 NA) and a bit thirsty but I think pretty durable. And again, no turbo to mess with.

probably the most important criteria though is overall condition and service history. More so than the specific model.

I would also look to be much closer to the 2010 models than a 2000. 20 YO Volvos, you better want to treat it as a labor of love.

kyfdx

@stickguy

Thanks!

stickguy

apparently you could get an XC70 with FWD. I assumed the ad listing was wrong, but Carfax says the same thing. This is pretty typical of what you find. New enough to be a "modern" car.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/793465893/overview/

another one, in my favorite Volvo color combo.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/788892564/overview/


You can find them for half the price but do you really want to get into a 15 YO car with 150,000 miles?

kyfdx

stickguy said:

apparently you could get an XC70 with FWD. I assumed the ad listing was wrong, but Carfax says the same thing. This is pretty typical of what you find. New enough to be a "modern" car.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/793465893/overview/

another one, in my favorite Volvo color combo.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/788892564/overview/


You can find them for half the price but do you really want to get into a 15 YO car with 150,000 miles?

Thanks!

28firefighter

Just lease another Tacoma. Can get it from the guy in Philly.

houdini1

stickguy said:

saw the owner of the Red Supra in my neighborhood. Definitely a mid-life crisis/celebrating empty nest situation! Guy probably 60ish, bald up top with a ring of silver hair, pot belly. My guess, a common demographic (more so than younger, hip people that don't have the money for one. Breld excluded of course).

Youth is wasted on the young, and money is wasted on the old.

tjc78

I’d be a little nervous with a Volvo of that age, just my .02

Speaking of electrical/computer. The dealer just had to do all kinds of updates to mine. One was a recall and I forget what all the rest was.

They had to replace the steering wheel controls as they no longer worked. I also had them road force balance all the tires, car is much smoother now. They said they were all off in one way or another. Tech even swapped a few of the rims and tires to get the balance with the least amount of weights. I thought that was a nice touch.

Hopefully this is the end and the rest of the lease is smooth.

28firefighter

And if not, you get to thrash a dealer loaner for a while and hand this one back at the end.

breld

stickguy said:

certain things are useful. Like an accident reported (though often can't tell severity, at least you know to look). Or a big service item, like "clutch replaced" or brakes done.

“Clutch replaced”

Nothing to see here. 😀

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

Just lease another Tacoma. Can get it from the guy in Philly.

He can’t handle the payment + full coverage. He and his girlfriend just had an offer accepted on a house, Friday

tjc78

28firefighter said:

And if not, you get to thrash a dealer loaner for a while and hand this one back at the end.

Exactly.

I think I have the wife sold on an XC90 for the Enclave replacement. Wow those get pricey. T6 Momentum with a few options was 60K in the showroom.

breld

Discounts in the Volvo tend to be steeper than the competition though.

But yes, they certainly can get pricey. We accompanied @jpp75 for some shopping yesterday and the Volvo dealer had an XC90 in the showroom with a cloth interior. It was pretty cool. Very Swedish.

tjc78

True, huge discounts.

I saw a picture of the cloth. That is pretty cool, but I’d prefer the vinyl or leather.

corvette

Many years ago, we had a service loaner S80 with cloth seats, it was unusual to see that on their flagship.

roadburner

My son found a decently optioned 230i at the same dealer that has the 330i; I bought my M235i there so I emailed my salesperson to see what the story is on the 3er. Maybe a package deal?

roadburner

houdini1 said:

Youth is wasted on the young, and money is wasted on the old.

A few years ago I had a 70 year old student at Road Atlanta in a then-new M5; I had to talk him around the course for every lap- in contrast, I had a lady of a similar age in an M Roadster and by the time the day was through she was hammering it around the course like she had been doing it her whole life.
I have no respect for geezers, but it's a state of mind- not an age. I know more than a few people who achieved geezer status in their early twenties.

ronsteve

Big service items, at a certain age or mileage, are nice to see because they check the boxes. I think I will probably further investigate some of that electrical stuff over the phone on Monday, and possibly check this car out on Tuesday.

Even if "computer reprogramming" is just a software download, "electrical/charging system checked" less than a month after a premature 2nd battery could be a dealbreaker or could be an anomaly. And I'll also check with my indie Volvo specialist in town as well.

Thanks to all who posted feedback!

corvette

It may be a situation of the previous owner having one specific problem that they made 18 service visits under warranty to get sorted out, but you never know.

stickguy

I have seen this "electrical/charging system checked"on a lot of Volvo CarFax reports. I think it is a generic "we check stuff during routine service" note. Same as the computer was updated.

Sandman6472

Yep, think you guys are right, no Compass for me. And no moving jobs either, just was curious as to what it involved. Like where I'm at right now though did inquire about Sundays again just so he knows I'm still interested.
Luckily, no more leaks in the garage. Happy about that. Talked about this being a good time to buy new due to so much 0% rates right now plus the few months of no payments. But unless something really super cool comes along, we're just going to stay the course and see where we land. Do want to try that Mini Cooper Countryman though just to see how well it drives. Gotta feeling I'm gonna like it as much as I do the Golf but one never knows. Maybe Thursday, go try one out. Or maybe in the morning!!

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

I have some 2x10's Idrive up on and used to use 2x8's for the rear wheels(what I have).
Usually the 2x8's got shot out the back down the driveway so I don't use them any more.

Hmm.... what did I miss that resulted in this comment...? It had me laughing with uncertainty....

explorerx4

@zwesx,
It was prompted by the VW 'ramp' video.

nyccarguy

Something weird is going on with used car values. I check my Pilot's value on Carvana/Vroom to see if I have the $10,500 in trade equity I put down from out 2011 Pilot. I'm sure I am paying it off faster than it is depreciating, but about as of a month ago I had just over $6,500 in equity. I checked last week and it was well over $8K, close to $8,500.

I don't know if this is a game that VROOM plays, but Friday I got an offer of $23,697 from them. Today I get an email saying they've increased their offer to $24,197. No way my car's value increased $500 over the weekend.

stickguy

Carvana sent an email since my old RDX is still in there. Saying values were up since they needed cars. I think the supply got thin so prices really have ticked up. I noticed looking at used car (asking) prices lately (recent model TLXs) that they were way more than I expected. But probably because the supply was much lower!

I should run the TLX again. I’m sure it’s still very upside down, but who knows. Maybe it’s closer!

28firefighter

Posted in the wrong spot before. Still can't believe @breld sold his rebel blue V60 Polestar. These cars bring absolutely stupid money.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3pm82ewn/2016-volvo-s60-t6-polestar

Michaell

Perhaps I should check the value of the Outback.....

stickguy

Only if you want your wife really mad at you. But maybe I should check the new RDX while I’m out there?

If the TLX was a purchase, not a lease, I definitely would be.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Only if you want your wife really mad at you. But maybe I should check the new RDX while I’m out there?

If the TLX was a purchase, not a lease, I definitely would be.

Checking the value and acting on it are two different things.

pensfan83

28firefighter said:

Posted in the wrong spot before. Still can't believe @breld sold his rebel blue V60 Polestar. These cars bring absolutely stupid money.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3pm82ewn/2016-volvo-s60-t6-polestar

I don't like the exposed white letters on the tires but everything else is great. I still can't believe BaT turned him down.

xwesx

Michaell said:

Checking the value and acting on it are two different things.

Not around here, they're not!

nyccarguy

I LOVE this 2002 911 Turbo Coupe (The Grey Interior Not so much):
https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3BE2qJOb/2002-porsche-911-turbo-coupe

Here's a 2003 Turbo Coupe with more miles, a set of very ugly wheels, and a more desirable interior color:
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?maxAccidents=0&zip=06902&hideWithoutPhotos=true&makeIds=48&showNegotiable=true&hideFleet=true&sortDir=ASC&sourceContext=cargurus&distance=100&sortType=DEAL_SCORE&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d404&newUsed=3&newUsed=2#listing=276064960

996 = "not cool" for the Porsche Traditionalist + NO IMS problems because it is a Turbo. I wish I had an extra $30K lying around for that Cars & Bids 911 Turbo.

28firefighter

My problem with Cars and Bids so far is the quality of folks commenting. I fully expected the peanut gallery, but I feel like they are not nearly as knowledgeable as those who comment auctions on BaT. My suspicion is that this is a lot of the youtube viewership from Doug and Hoovie making their way over vs. actual bidders/enthusiasts.

fintail

A 50K mile 911 Turbo isn't actually going to end at 30K, right?

Now here's a 911 Turbo - just get that winning lottery ticket.

nyccarguy

fintail said:

A 50K mile 911 Turbo isn't actually going to end at 30K, right?

Now here's a 911 Turbo - just get that winning lottery ticket.

Those Slant Nose 911s do NOTHING for me. I'm sure they drive incredible, but I just never liked the look,