Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

corvette

breld said:

And then after some back and forth with his sales manager, he concluded that deposits are non-refundable.

Dealers do this with any "hot" car when it's first released, and at the same time, wonder why people hate car dealers. *shrugs*

Michaell

breld said:

Also, I stopped by the Ford dealer next door to inquire a bit about the Mach E. Mostly, I just wanted to know what the expected delivery date is for current orders, and whether deposits are refundable (Ford's website says it's up to the dealership).

The first salesperson said he didn't know much about the Mach E and went to find someone who did. A different salesperson came by and simply said there are none on their lot (I figured) and they didn't know when even their first Mach E's will be arriving. So, certainly no information on delivery times for current orders.

And then after some back and forth with his sales manager, he concluded that deposits are non-refundable.

The real kicker...as I walked away in the parking lot, I noticed a Mach E in their service bay.

Sounds like it will be a very competitive EV, but it may be a chore to find a Ford dealer that I can stand to work with.

What about the rest of the story, after we left the Ford dealership?

ab348

breld said:

The real kicker...as I walked away in the parking lot, I noticed a Mach E in their service bay.

Must have been in there for it’s first oil change.

28firefighter

Michaell said:

breld said:

Also, I stopped by the Ford dealer next door to inquire a bit about the Mach E. Mostly, I just wanted to know what the expected delivery date is for current orders, and whether deposits are refundable (Ford's website says it's up to the dealership).

The first salesperson said he didn't know much about the Mach E and went to find someone who did. A different salesperson came by and simply said there are none on their lot (I figured) and they didn't know when even their first Mach E's will be arriving. So, certainly no information on delivery times for current orders.

And then after some back and forth with his sales manager, he concluded that deposits are non-refundable.

The real kicker...as I walked away in the parking lot, I noticed a Mach E in their service bay.

Sounds like it will be a very competitive EV, but it may be a chore to find a Ford dealer that I can stand to work with.

What about the rest of the story, after we left the Ford dealership?

What did you buy?

breld

corvette said:

breld said:

And then after some back and forth with his sales manager, he concluded that deposits are non-refundable.

Dealers do this with any "hot" car when it's first released, and at the same time, wonder why people hate car dealers. *shrugs*

Yeah, I was telling my wife I think you're simply gonna have to wait until the Mach E's are available on the lots and available to purchase. There will be more interest on the dealership side when they have the prospect of a sale that day.

breld

Michaell said:

breld said:

Also, I stopped by the Ford dealer next door to inquire a bit about the Mach E. Mostly, I just wanted to know what the expected delivery date is for current orders, and whether deposits are refundable (Ford's website says it's up to the dealership).

The first salesperson said he didn't know much about the Mach E and went to find someone who did. A different salesperson came by and simply said there are none on their lot (I figured) and they didn't know when even their first Mach E's will be arriving. So, certainly no information on delivery times for current orders.

And then after some back and forth with his sales manager, he concluded that deposits are non-refundable.

The real kicker...as I walked away in the parking lot, I noticed a Mach E in their service bay.

Sounds like it will be a very competitive EV, but it may be a chore to find a Ford dealer that I can stand to work with.

What about the rest of the story, after we left the Ford dealership?

Yeah well, so @michaell insisted that we visit the Mazda dealership too.

Or rather, I suggested we check out the newly remodeled Mazda dealership to check out the showroom.

I asked about incoming Miata RFs, as I'm smitten with the newly available Crystal Blue Mica with a white leather interior.

Then we walked the lot a bit looking at CX-30s and CX-5s. CX-30 actually seems like a nice value compared to competitors like the Crosstrek. And it looks much nicer than the Mazda3 hatch.

roadburner

breld said:

So I show up to the Toyota dealership for my service, and after a short wait, an advisor comes up and asks when I made the appointment. Long story short, I should have been told that they didn't have a technician qualified to work on the Supra.

So I made an appointment at the dealership I purchased it from, which apparently is capable changing the oil on a BMW, I mean, Toyota.

Annoying.

Exactly what I’m afraid of; the Supra and Stinger seem poised to be let down by the quality-or lack thereof-of their dealer’s service departments.

stickguy

my Neighbor recently got a white CX30 for their daughter. Really sharp looking. I like it. But that color combo on a Miata sounds tasty.

as to jobs, I lost interest in mine a while back. I looked at a couple new ones, but nothing worked out. At least I have been doing it for so long I don't have to put much effort into it, or mental capacity. And I love my boss. So at this point, unless a great opportunity falls into my lap, or he leaves and my day becomes aggravating, I will just coast along and focus on a retirement date!

oldfarmer50

breld said:

So I show up to the Toyota dealership for my service, and after a short wait, an advisor comes up and asks when I made the appointment. Long story short, I should have been told that they didn't have a technician qualified to work on the Supra.

So I made an appointment at the dealership I purchased it from, which apparently is capable changing the oil on a BMW, I mean, Toyota.

Annoying.

What’s so complicated about changing oil? Does it go in through the tailpipe or something?

I remember owners of the Chrysler Crossfire had a similar problem. Since it was basically a Mercedes underneath, Chrysler mechanics didn’t know how to work on it and Mercedes mechanics refused to work on it. Spare parts became a problem after Daimler left the picture.

qbrozen

As to the flipping thing, I’m not looking for more projects necessarily. My delusion is that I could find some out there that people are not bothering with and it just needs a good polish and lots of photos and a good ad. I mean, these “dealers” on C&B and BaT must be doing just that, I would think.

So, as an example, scouring CL for a bit and found just ONE vehicle that maybe fits the bill, as he took only a couple of pics, interior appears lovely, and it has like 70k miles. And it is a round headlight model. A similar one with fewer miles sold a few months ago for $8k. Seller is asking $3500. SO, if I could get something like that for $3k, pay $500 shipping, $500 to fix the clearcoat on the top, $200 detail, $200 for listing. Get $6500 minus fee, it would be $1500 or so profit.

That’s just an example, of course.

stickguy

or, it is a typical CL car of that type, and you find out it also needs, well, a lot more expensive stuff.

Getting a dealers license (or hooking up with someone that has them) and cherry picking a few out of the auction, that might make sense.

breld

roadburner said:

breld said:

So I show up to the Toyota dealership for my service, and after a short wait, an advisor comes up and asks when I made the appointment. Long story short, I should have been told that they didn't have a technician qualified to work on the Supra.

So I made an appointment at the dealership I purchased it from, which apparently is capable changing the oil on a BMW, I mean, Toyota.

Annoying.

Exactly what I’m afraid of; the Supra and Stinger seem poised to be let down by the quality-or lack thereof-of their dealer’s service departments.

I thought of you as I was having this experience at the Toyota service dept.

I suppose “shopping” for the service departments may be just part of the process. I have an appointment at the one I bought it from Monday morning. I’ll report back on how that goes.

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

qbrozen said:

Thing is .. I REALLY hate my job. So I've been looking for any and all ways to make money in some other form. Part of that is looking to flip cars. lol.

Flipping is a tough market, it seems like you'd have to invest a lot of energy in trying to buy the right ones at the right price.

I've been at my current job for over five years and it's starting to grate on me. Keep in mind, the longest I've ever stayed at a full time position is six years. Maybe I'm becoming old and cranky, but I'm getting extremely disillusioned with more and more requirements being piled on from up high (if X happens, you need to do Y, if you see A, you have to notify B ) and no extra support for the people who are expected to implement the requirements.

I was going to suggest that anyone who hates their job come and work for my company. Low stress and low pay but you have fun driving somebody else’s cars.

breld

oldfarmer50 said:

breld said:

So I show up to the Toyota dealership for my service, and after a short wait, an advisor comes up and asks when I made the appointment. Long story short, I should have been told that they didn't have a technician qualified to work on the Supra.

So I made an appointment at the dealership I purchased it from, which apparently is capable changing the oil on a BMW, I mean, Toyota.

Annoying.

What’s so complicated about changing oil? Does it go in through the tailpipe or something?

Agreed. But I was actually pleased they didn’t just try to do anything they weren’t necessarily prepared to do.

stickguy

the process is easy enough. But BMWs especially seem to be very particular about getting a specific oil and filter. If they don't have that, probably don't want them pumping in the bulk10w40 they put in Corollas.

oldfarmer50

breld said:

Also, I stopped by the Ford dealer next door to inquire a bit about the Mach E. Mostly, I just wanted to know what the expected delivery date is for current orders, and whether deposits are refundable (Ford's website says it's up to the dealership).

The first salesperson said he didn't know much about the Mach E and went to find someone who did. A different salesperson came by and simply said there are none on their lot (I figured) and they didn't know when even their first Mach E's will be arriving. So, certainly no information on delivery times for current orders.

And then after some back and forth with his sales manager, he concluded that deposits are non-refundable.

The real kicker...as I walked away in the parking lot, I noticed a Mach E in their service bay.

Sounds like it will be a very competitive EV, but it may be a chore to find a Ford dealer that I can stand to work with.

Shop another dealer. When I first inquired about the new design 15’ Mustang I went to my local Ford store just down the street. Salesman seemed bored to be talking to me and just shrugged and said the weren’t in yet and he didn’t know when they would arrive. No attempt to offer any options like pre-ordering. I asked for a brochure and was told “we gave them all away”. I left my email and asked him to let me know when they had some in stock. I’m still waiting.

About six months later I saw one at a dealer 20 miles away. They were pleasant and easy to deal with so I bought there.

There has to be a middle ground between dealers where the salesmen circle you like sharks and the ones who act like they’re too good to bother selling a car to you.

ab348

qbrozen said:

As to the flipping thing, I’m not looking for more projects necessarily. My delusion is that I could find some out there that people are not bothering with and it just needs a good polish and lots of photos and a good ad. I mean, these “dealers” on C&B and BaT must be doing just that, I would think.

Sounds like you could expand that concept into a TV show. All you need is a catchy title. Maybe something like “Wheeler Dealers”?

sda

corvette said:

qbrozen said:

Thing is .. I REALLY hate my job. So I've been looking for any and all ways to make money in some other form. Part of that is looking to flip cars. lol.

Flipping is a tough market, it seems like you'd have to invest a lot of energy in trying to buy the right ones at the right price.

I've been at my current job for over five years and it's starting to grate on me. Keep in mind, the longest I've ever stayed at a full time position is six years. Maybe I'm becoming old and cranky, but I'm getting extremely disillusioned with more and more requirements being piled on from up high (if X happens, you need to do Y, if you see A, you have to notify B ) and no extra support for the people who are expected to implement the requirements.

Yep, I am experiencing the same. Must be universal. Not good.

qbrozen

ab348 said:

qbrozen said:

As to the flipping thing, I’m not looking for more projects necessarily. My delusion is that I could find some out there that people are not bothering with and it just needs a good polish and lots of photos and a good ad. I mean, these “dealers” on C&B and BaT must be doing just that, I would think.

Sounds like you could expand that concept into a TV show. All you need is a catchy title. Maybe something like “Wheeler Dealers”?

Note I said “no projects.”

roadburner

stickguy said:

the process is easy enough. But BMWs especially seem to be very particular about getting a specific oil and filter. If they don't have that, probably don't want them pumping in the bulk10w40 they put in Corollas.

Toyota sells a specific “GR” oil for the Supra that meets the BMW LL-17FE+ standard. Will dealers actually use it? I’m not confident that they will. The oil change procedure is dead easy as the filter cartridge is accessed from under the hood- like most every BMW from the early ‘90s-up.
The hard truth is that the Supras are not selling anywhere close to as well as Toyota expected, and consequently I can’t see many dealers training more than one tech to service them- if they bother to train any at all. I can easily see bringing my Supra to a dealer and being told, “Sorry pal, but our only Supra tech called in sick.”

breld

roadburner said:

stickguy said:

the process is easy enough. But BMWs especially seem to be very particular about getting a specific oil and filter. If they don't have that, probably don't want them pumping in the bulk10w40 they put in Corollas.

Toyota sells a specific “GR” oil for the Supra that meets the BMW LL-17FE+ standard. Will dealers actually use it? I’m not confident that they will. The oil change procedure is dead easy as the filter cartridge is accessed from under the hood- like most every BMW from the early’90s-up.
The hard truth is that the Supras are not selling anywhere close to as well as Toyota expected, and consequently I can’t see many dealers training more than one tech to service them- if they bother to train any at all. I can easily see bringing my Supra to a dealer and being told, “Sorry pal, but our only Supra tech called in sick.”

Well, you’re pretty much spot on. The supervisor at the dealership today who apologized to me said their one technician trained to service the Supras left and they were in the process of training a new one.

And this is one of the larger Toyota dealerships in town.

breld

My M2’s price keeps getting reduced...

https://www.automotive-imports.com/vehicle-details/used-2017-bmw-m2--denver-co-id-39321276

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

breld said:

Also, I stopped by the Ford dealer next door to inquire a bit about the Mach E. Mostly, I just wanted to know what the expected delivery date is for current orders, and whether deposits are refundable (Ford's website says it's up to the dealership).

The first salesperson said he didn't know much about the Mach E and went to find someone who did. A different salesperson came by and simply said there are none on their lot (I figured) and they didn't know when even their first Mach E's will be arriving. So, certainly no information on delivery times for current orders.

And then after some back and forth with his sales manager, he concluded that deposits are non-refundable.

The real kicker...as I walked away in the parking lot, I noticed a Mach E in their service bay.

Sounds like it will be a very competitive EV, but it may be a chore to find a Ford dealer that I can stand to work with.

Shop another dealer. When I first inquired about the new design 15’ Mustang I went to my local Ford store just down the street. Salesman seemed bored to be talking to me and just shrugged and said the weren’t in yet and he didn’t know when they would arrive. No attempt to offer any options like pre-ordering. I asked for a brochure and was told “we gave them all away”. I left my email and asked him to let me know when they had some in stock. I’m still waiting.

About six months later I saw one at a dealer 20 miles away. They were pleasant and easy to deal with so I bought there.

There has to be a middle ground between dealers where the salesmen circle you like sharks and the ones who act like they’re too good to bother selling a car to you.

With the exception of Kings Ford in Cincinnati(where I would have bought a 2015 Mustang GT had it not sold the day before we decided to buy it) I have had nothing but dismal experiences with Ford dealers- especially with respect to salespeople knowing anything about the vehicles they are selling.

Back in 1982 I was fresh out of law school and seriously considering buying a new V8 Mustang GT or Capri RS(this was at the beginning of the current high performance era, when a car that went from 0 to 60 in under 7 seconds was really fast). I stopped in at a local L-M dealer and asked a plaid suited salesman when they were going to get a V8 Capri. He told me that the V8 got poor gas mileage and therefore would be in very low demand- and that if I wanted one it would have to be special ordered.
Idiot.

Then there was Andy Mohr Ford in Indy who played bait and switch with the CPO warranty on another 2015 GT I was looking at and also hid my car after appraising it(for $900 less than the BMW dealer offered six months later).

Much like the Honda dealers who jerked my wife around when she was shopping for a new Accord in 1983, or the Mitsubishi dealers who outright lied to us when we were looking for a new Montero SR in 1994, the dealer experience seriously affects your attitude towards the brand.

explorerx4

Job? What's a job?
Worked on one software product for about 20 years and concurrently on the new version for about 3 years.
I can't remember the name of either one, now.
Can still figure out the individual words in the jumble in 15 seconds to a minute, though.
Means I'm not totally brain dead.

corvette

Sounds about right! The software we use to manage our office dates back to 1991-ish and barely has mouse support. And we are not paperless, nor do we have a plan to become paperless.

When I started here, they were running Windows XP boxes. I pointed out that, in the event of a security breach, the fact that we were running an unsupported OS which was no longer patched would not look good from a liability standpoint. We all got new computers soon thereafter.

explorerx4

@corvette,
Some good advice from you for your employer. They probably don't appreciate it as much as they should.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

or, it is a typical CL car of that type, and you find out it also needs, well, a lot more expensive stuff.

Getting a dealers license (or hooking up with someone that has them) and cherry picking a few out of the auction, that might make sense.

Or just become a buyer for a dealer, then you don’t have your own money in the game and you get to play with all the toys.

stickguy

there is a place (I post there stuff on occasion) in my town that sells largely over the internet. They do have a warehouse and you can go see the cars, but no lot of any kind. I thought it could be interesting working for them, or a place like that, handling internet requests and sales, posting cares, etc.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

there is a place (I post there stuff on occasion) in my town that sells largely over the internet. They do have a warehouse and you can go see the cars, but no lot of any kind. I thought it could be interesting working for them, or a place like that, handling internet requests and sales, posting cares, etc.

That was my initial “car biz plan” going back 17 or 18 years now. Just could never get the wife on board.

qbrozen

Zero responses on my Camaro inquiries. Well, almost zero. Essentially zero. One gave a standard email reply without addressing my ask, so I replied asking again. Nothing back. Another called and texted me, although I was pretty certain I removed my number from the contact form. I texted back asking them to email me the lease quote. Crickets.

The one who called and texted also happens to have a crazy discount advertised on their site BEFORE incentives. I’m curious to push on that and see what falls out.

28firefighter

You might be a bit late to the Camaro show. One can only imagine how many ridiculous leads they’ve been getting since word of that deal got out.

qbrozen

28firefighter said:

You might be a bit late to the Camaro show. One can only imagine how many ridiculous leads they’ve been getting since word of that deal got out.

Folks say that but I doubt it is that many. Our online communities just aren’t that big, in the grand scheme of car shopping.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

Zero responses on my Camaro inquiries. Well, almost zero. Essentially zero. One gave a standard email reply without addressing my ask, so I replied asking again. Nothing back. Another called and texted me, although I was pretty certain I removed my number from the contact form. I texted back asking them to email me the lease quote. Crickets.

The one who called and texted also happens to have a crazy discount advertised on their site BEFORE incentives. I’m curious to push on that and see what falls out.

Sounds like the classic “one at that price” offer to get people in the showroom. When pushed they’ll say it was already sold (to the dealer’s SIL) but they have more at a slightly higher price plus tax, title and $1,000 lease acquisition fee, $2,000 lease termination fee etc.

graphicguy

tjc78 said:

I’m sure I’d like the Avalon TRD... but I just can’t move past that awful front end. Maybe in black it’s better? I haven’t seen one in the wild.

I haven’t looked at the numbers but I’d be willing to be Toyota is selling a fraction of the Avalon’s it used to sell from 2000 to 2008 or so.

Would love to hear your opinion of the Avalon. Need some company. I seem to be the only one in these parts who likes it.

roadburner

I know that it will never happen, but I wish BMW would import the 128ti;
I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

stickguy

that would be perfect for me too.

28firefighter

+1

tjc78

graphicguy said:

tjc78 said:

I’m sure I’d like the Avalon TRD... but I just can’t move past that awful front end. Maybe in black it’s better? I haven’t seen one in the wild.

I haven’t looked at the numbers but I’d be willing to be Toyota is selling a fraction of the Avalon’s it used to sell from 2000 to 2008 or so.

Would love to hear your opinion of the Avalon. Need some company. I seem to be the only one in these parts who likes it.

I’m sure I’d like it. I’ll have to test drive one at some point.

andres3

xwesx said:

andres3 said:

I have ISweep3000's on the rear, and that did balance the car's braking when a prior rear pad was causing twitchiness likely from having RE10's up front, and a lesser pad in the rear. The ISWEEPS solved that twitch at the 3000 level, but the rears take only about 20% of the abuse the front gets.

Lastly, remember by "cold" I mean 50-80 degrees ambient temperatures right when starting the car in sunny San Diego.

My brother is a big fan of Akebono brake pads. He doesn't do many track days; as with you, the street is his track 99% of the time.

I believe my favored Audi shop is a big fan of Akebono pads. I might go with those for the S4 that won't see track time; though I'm sort of curious what it can do at the 1/8th mile strip. I also in the past liked Ferodo's DS2500, but again, I only got to use them on the rear, and it's not as hard for a pad to seem great on the rear.

andres3

https://www.automotive-imports.com/vehicle-details/used-2017-bmw-m2--denver-co-id-39321276

From a post above, I like that M2, except I'm not a fan of white. Still, $41K for a low mile M2 wouldn't be the worst way to find out if BMW has figured out how to do DCT's.

stickguy

tjc78 said:

graphicguy said:

tjc78 said:

I’m sure I’d like the Avalon TRD... but I just can’t move past that awful front end. Maybe in black it’s better? I haven’t seen one in the wild.

I haven’t looked at the numbers but I’d be willing to be Toyota is selling a fraction of the Avalon’s it used to sell from 2000 to 2008 or so.

Would love to hear your opinion of the Avalon. Need some company. I seem to be the only one in these parts who likes it.

I’m sure I’d like it. I’ll have to test drive one at some point.

Probably a very nice luxo barge. But way too big for my taste (and not sporty/engaging enough to drive).

roadburner

andres3 said:

https://www.automotive-imports.com/vehicle-details/used-2017-bmw-m2--denver-co-id-39321276

From a post above, I like that M2, except I'm not a fan of white. Still, $41K for a low mile M2 wouldn't be the worst way to find out if BMW has figured out how to do DCT's.

The DCT isn't an issue- just follow the European service regimen and change the fluid every 40k miles.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

tjc78 said:

I’m sure I’d like the Avalon TRD... but I just can’t move past that awful front end. Maybe in black it’s better? I haven’t seen one in the wild.

I haven’t looked at the numbers but I’d be willing to be Toyota is selling a fraction of the Avalon’s it used to sell from 2000 to 2008 or so.

Would love to hear your opinion of the Avalon. Need some company. I seem to be the only one in these parts who likes it.

From what I understand if you like Buicks you’ll like the Avalon. I never thought I’d like the ride of a Lincoln or Buick until I owned one.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

andres3 said:

https://www.automotive-imports.com/vehicle-details/used-2017-bmw-m2--denver-co-id-39321276

From a post above, I like that M2, except I'm not a fan of white. Still, $41K for a low mile M2 wouldn't be the worst way to find out if BMW has figured out how to do DCT's.

The DCT isn't an issue- just follow the European service regimen and change the fluid every 40k miles.

In the past I would have thought transmission fluid changes at 40k were premature. 50k to me was even a little cautious. But then I had my son’s Fusion in for service and was told the fluid was very dirty at 33k.

Fearing some sort of pending trouble I took it for a flush where the tech confirmed it was “raunchy”. I did further research and found that many manufacturers are recommending 30k fluid changes.

You learn something new every day.

I wonder how many of the common knowledge fluid change beliefs are wrong these days. I mean, until a few years ago I would never even know that brake fluid changes would EVER be needed.

Are these new cars that demanding?

xwesx

oldfarmer50 said:

Shop another dealer. When I first inquired about the new design 15’ Mustang I went to my local Ford store just down the street. Salesman seemed bored to be talking to me and just shrugged and said the weren’t in yet and he didn’t know when they would arrive. No attempt to offer any options like pre-ordering. I asked for a brochure and was told “we gave them all away”. I left my email and asked him to let me know when they had some in stock. I’m still waiting.

About six months later I saw one at a dealer 20 miles away. They were pleasant and easy to deal with so I bought there.

There has to be a middle ground between dealers where the salesmen circle you like sharks and the ones who act like they’re too good to bother selling a car to you.

That's one thing I really like about my local Ford dealer: Their customer service is really second-to-none. Perhaps ironically, I've never managed to buy a car from them, but I've come close a few times, used their service department, driven many of their inventory, etc. Each time was an excellent experience and, while they do many of the typical sales techniques in terms of trying to play to emotions, monthly payments, urgency, etc., they are always responsive and respectful.

When I was strongly considering a Flex (before the whole TDI fiasco), the salesman followed up with me on two different occasions when they got an Ecoboost on trade. I went in to look at one of them before it went to the detail shop, and was sorely tempted to pull the trigger, but this was during the period when I had already committed to the Q7, so I (wisely, in retrospect) decided to stay my excitement pending the outcome of the buyback process.

corvette

oldfarmer50 said:

Are these new cars that demanding?

Many seem to do fine with longer transmission fluid change intervals. However, the transfer cases on AWD CUVs seem to be a common failure point, as they are typically placed next to a hot engine and a very hot catalytic converter, and tend to have small fluid capacities, so what little fluid is there cooks very quickly. Some of them don't have drain plugs, so they're even harder to service.

qbrozen

If nothing else, I'll probably have some fun email exchanges with these dealers to share.

There can be no bait and switch because they all have just 1 LT1 each at this point. So far, numbers are in from just a Koons dealer. I have had run-ins with them in the past, so I know it is likely pointless. This is the one, in fact, who had the low advertised price. They are in VA, so I suspected they'll have add-ons. They do. BUT, still showing 7.5% pre-incentive discount.

So they sent me 2 sheets. One was for purchase, which broke down everything, and the other was for lease, which simply showed monthly. The two are in complete disagreement. I wrote back asking for breakdown on the lease payment, and a sales manager wrote back to say I should check the salesperson's email again because the breakdown was in there. Oh? Really? Ok ... here goes...

Ok, so if I’m using that purchase breakdown for the lease, here is what I’m seeing.
$36,590 MSRP
$32,756 + $1095 freight = $33,851 selling price.
+ $695 acquisition
+ $899 dealer fee
+ $577.60 title & reg
- $2250 conquest and regional incentives
With my 6.625% NJ tax, 64% residual, and .00028 money factor, I come up with a sign and drive payment of $312 x 38 payments.
Can you please tell me where the $479 came from?

His response? "I'll have to get back to you." LOL.

au1994

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

andres3 said:

https://www.automotive-imports.com/vehicle-details/used-2017-bmw-m2--denver-co-id-39321276

From a post above, I like that M2, except I'm not a fan of white. Still, $41K for a low mile M2 wouldn't be the worst way to find out if BMW has figured out how to do DCT's.

The DCT isn't an issue- just follow the European service regimen and change the fluid every 40k miles.

In the past I would have thought transmission fluid changes at 40k were premature. 50k to me was even a little cautious. But then I had my son’s Fusion in for service and was told the fluid was very dirty at 33k.

Fearing some sort of pending trouble I took it for a flush where the tech confirmed it was “raunchy”. I did further research and found that many manufacturers are recommending 30k fluid changes.

You learn something new every day.

I wonder how many of the common knowledge fluid change beliefs are wrong these days. I mean, until a few years ago I would never even know that brake fluid changes would EVER be needed.

Are these new cars that demanding?

My 07 Wrangler’s fluid was the same way at about the same miles.

So I traded it for a TSX

sda

xwesx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Shop another dealer. When I first inquired about the new design 15’ Mustang I went to my local Ford store just down the street. Salesman seemed bored to be talking to me and just shrugged and said the weren’t in yet and he didn’t know when they would arrive. No attempt to offer any options like pre-ordering. I asked for a brochure and was told “we gave them all away”. I left my email and asked him to let me know when they had some in stock. I’m still waiting.

About six months later I saw one at a dealer 20 miles away. They were pleasant and easy to deal with so I bought there.

There has to be a middle ground between dealers where the salesmen circle you like sharks and the ones who act like they’re too good to bother selling a car to you.

That's one thing I really like about my local Ford dealer: Their customer service is really second-to-none. Perhaps ironically, I've never managed to buy a car from them, but I've come close a few times, used their service department, driven many of their inventory, etc. Each time was an excellent experience and, while they do many of the typical sales techniques in terms of trying to play to emotions, monthly payments, urgency, etc., they are always responsive and respectful.

When I was strongly considering a Flex (before the whole TDI fiasco), the salesman followed up with me on two different occasions when they got an Ecoboost on trade. I went in to look at one of them before it went to the detail shop, and was sorely tempted to pull the trigger, but this was during the period when I had already committed to the Q7, so I (wisely, in retrospect) decided to stay my excitement pending the outcome of the buyback process.

We seriously considered and looked for a slightly used Flex Limited with the pano roof and two tone paint. My wife really liked those. Never could find one at a decent price. The Pilot was also on the wife’s like list so that’s what we bought.

28firefighter

I promise I’ll give it a rest after this. I’m just so impressed with how well things cleaned up.

I put in some OEM all weather floormats today so this is post-detail with new mats.