Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

28firefighter

sda said:

xwesx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Shop another dealer. When I first inquired about the new design 15’ Mustang I went to my local Ford store just down the street. Salesman seemed bored to be talking to me and just shrugged and said the weren’t in yet and he didn’t know when they would arrive. No attempt to offer any options like pre-ordering. I asked for a brochure and was told “we gave them all away”. I left my email and asked him to let me know when they had some in stock. I’m still waiting.

About six months later I saw one at a dealer 20 miles away. They were pleasant and easy to deal with so I bought there.

There has to be a middle ground between dealers where the salesmen circle you like sharks and the ones who act like they’re too good to bother selling a car to you.

That's one thing I really like about my local Ford dealer: Their customer service is really second-to-none. Perhaps ironically, I've never managed to buy a car from them, but I've come close a few times, used their service department, driven many of their inventory, etc. Each time was an excellent experience and, while they do many of the typical sales techniques in terms of trying to play to emotions, monthly payments, urgency, etc., they are always responsive and respectful.

When I was strongly considering a Flex (before the whole TDI fiasco), the salesman followed up with me on two different occasions when they got an Ecoboost on trade. I went in to look at one of them before it went to the detail shop, and was sorely tempted to pull the trigger, but this was during the period when I had already committed to the Q7, so I (wisely, in retrospect) decided to stay my excitement pending the outcome of the buyback process.

We seriously considered and looked for a slightly used Flex Limited with the pano roof and two tone paint. My wife really liked those. Never could find one at a decent price. The Pilot was also on the wife’s like list so that’s what we bought.

My BIL and SIL, until recently, had a 2015 Flex Limited Ecoboost with sport appearance package. Gray paint, black roof, black wheels, and two-tone gray/black leather interior. Such an awesome car.

qbrozen

Got the wife’s reluctant approval on my money making scheme. Now just gotta get a chevy dealer to play ball

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

Got the wife’s reluctant approval on my money making scheme. Now just gotta get a chevy dealer to play ball

Mine suggested that I be prepared to park it where the sun doesn’t shine.

tjc78

stickguy said:

tjc78 said:

graphicguy said:

tjc78 said:

I’m sure I’d like the Avalon TRD... but I just can’t move past that awful front end. Maybe in black it’s better? I haven’t seen one in the wild.

I haven’t looked at the numbers but I’d be willing to be Toyota is selling a fraction of the Avalon’s it used to sell from 2000 to 2008 or so.

Would love to hear your opinion of the Avalon. Need some company. I seem to be the only one in these parts who likes it.

I’m sure I’d like it. I’ll have to test drive one at some point.

Probably a very nice luxo barge. But way too big for my taste (and not sporty/engaging enough to drive).

qbrozen said:

If nothing else, I'll probably have some fun email exchanges with these dealers to share.

There can be no bait and switch because they all have just 1 LT1 each at this point. So far, numbers are in from just a Koons dealer. I have had run-ins with them in the past, so I know it is likely pointless. This is the one, in fact, who had the low advertised price. They are in VA, so I suspected they'll have add-ons. They do. BUT, still showing 7.5% pre-incentive discount.

So they sent me 2 sheets. One was for purchase, which broke down everything, and the other was for lease, which simply showed monthly. The two are in complete disagreement. I wrote back asking for breakdown on the lease payment, and a sales manager wrote back to say I should check the salesperson's email again because the breakdown was in there. Oh? Really? Ok ... here goes...

Ok, so if I’m using that purchase breakdown for the lease, here is what I’m seeing.
$36,590 MSRP
$32,756 + $1095 freight = $33,851 selling price.
+ $695 acquisition
+ $899 dealer fee
+ $577.60 title & reg
- $2250 conquest and regional incentives
With my 6.625% NJ tax, 64% residual, and .00028 money factor, I come up with a sign and drive payment of $312 x 38 payments.
Can you please tell me where the $479 came from?

His response? "I'll have to get back to you." LOL.

Oh this will be fun. They hate educated customers with leases.

explorerx4

@qbrozen,
What is the $1095 freight? Sticker of $36,590 includes $995 Destination Charge and $1,595 for automatic trans..

sda

28firefighter said:

I promise I’ll give it a rest after this. I’m just so impressed with how well things cleaned up.

I put in some OEM all weather floormats today so this is post-detail with new mats.

I love that car! I would be tremendously happy to have it in my driveway. Stellar color combination, great looking interior.

stickguy

I could bring one home if I wasn't already planning to take over the Jetta. The wife would just look at it (or at me) and shake her head. And likely tell me to have fun with it, but don't expect her to ride in it.

True about trying to play games with leases. Back when I was looking and ended up with the Sonata, I went in and test drove an Accord Sport. I had some preliminary expectations (maybe from an online dealer?) which at the time was in the mid-200s I think. Liked the car well enough, so asked them for a lease quote. They came back with something absurd ($450 maybe?), of course with not details to back it up. And the salesguy eventually just disappeared so eventually we got fed up and left without even being stopped.

fintail

I never really embraced the E60/61 design ethos, but that thing looks brand new, and great color combo.

28firefighter said:

I promise I’ll give it a rest after this. I’m just so impressed with how well things cleaned up.

I put in some OEM all weather floormats today so this is post-detail with new mats.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

If nothing else, I'll probably have some fun email exchanges with these dealers to share.

There can be no bait and switch because they all have just 1 LT1 each at this point. So far, numbers are in from just a Koons dealer. I have had run-ins with them in the past, so I know it is likely pointless. This is the one, in fact, who had the low advertised price. They are in VA, so I suspected they'll have add-ons. They do. BUT, still showing 7.5% pre-incentive discount.

So they sent me 2 sheets. One was for purchase, which broke down everything, and the other was for lease, which simply showed monthly. The two are in complete disagreement. I wrote back asking for breakdown on the lease payment, and a sales manager wrote back to say I should check the salesperson's email again because the breakdown was in there. Oh? Really? Ok ... here goes...

Ok, so if I’m using that purchase breakdown for the lease, here is what I’m seeing.
$36,590 MSRP
$32,756 + $1095 freight = $33,851 selling price.
+ $695 acquisition
+ $899 dealer fee
+ $577.60 title & reg
- $2250 conquest and regional incentives
With my 6.625% NJ tax, 64% residual, and .00028 money factor, I come up with a sign and drive payment of $312 x 38 payments.
Can you please tell me where the $479 came from?

His response? "I'll have to get back to you." LOL.

I wouldn’t hold my breath.

It’s tricks like that that make me shy away from leasing.

oldfarmer50

28firefighter said:

I promise I’ll give it a rest after this. I’m just so impressed with how well things cleaned up.

I put in some OEM all weather floormats today so this is post-detail with new mats.

I like that interior.

stickguy

not really a trick. Just an annoyance since you have to ask for the breakdown sheet. And it isn't every dealer. I have had some up front just give a clear summary of all the numbers on a lease, same as a purchase.

If anything, leases can be easier since if you know the payment you want it to be, can just shop that. $0 due at signing, 36 months/10,000 miles per year, and $350 a month is pretty cut and dried. The only thing that matters is the monthly payment, and I don't care what number gymnastics they have to do to make it work.

Just set the parameters up front and there is only 1 moving part!

oldfarmer50

“ I could bring one home if I wasn't already planning to take over the Jetta. The wife would just look at it (or at me) and shake her head. And likely tell me to have fun with it, but don't expect her to ride in it.”

So she gave you her blessing. At least that’s what I heard.

nyccarguy

I’m off from work today. My Tacoma is getting a good work out this weekend. My wife is sidelined with a hip injury & my 14 year old can’t do much due to his concussion so I took my 11 year old son & 9 year old daughter skiing about an hour away. Conditions were fantastic. Beautiful weather & NO ICE. No need for a ski rack or a place to throw wet, muddy boots after a day of skiing. Everything just gets thrown into the bed. The parking lot was a complete mud pit. I threw it into 4WD to make it up a muddy incline and then drive through a mud puddle that many were avoiding.

Tomorrow, my 11 year old son has a 10:40 AM hockey game that’s a solid hour & a half from my house (Norwich, CT). It’s supposed to start snowing around midnight and continue until early tomorrow afternoon. His hockey gear will be loaded up tonight a d the Tacoma will be ready for action.

qbrozen

explorerx4 said:

@qbrozen,
What is the $1095 freight? Sticker of $36,590 includes $995 Destination Charge and $1,595 for automatic trans..

It is a garbage VA tactic. “They all do it.” In this case, In this case, at least it is a supposed healthy 7.5% discount after adding the freight back in.

Michaell

stickguy said:

not really a trick. Just an annoyance since you have to ask for the breakdown sheet. And it isn't every dealer. I have had some up front just give a clear summary of all the numbers on a lease, same as a purchase.

If anything, leases can be easier since if you know the payment you want it to be, can just shop that. $0 due at signing, 36 months/10,000 miles per year, and $350 a month is pretty cut and dried. The only thing that matters is the monthly payment, and I don't care what number gymnastics they have to do to make it work.

FJust set the parameters up front and there is only 1 moving part!

Here’s the issue - you pick a make and model, you tell the dealer $350/mo and $0 DAS. Dealer gives you the quote and off you go.

What if you learned you could have gotten the same car for $325/mo? That’s why knowing all the moving parts is important when you lease.

Lots of members post something like “$1000 down and $499/mo. Good deal?”

Sorry, can’t help you. As @kyfdx pointed out, you might as well ask the mailman or your next door neighbor. Need all the numbers to evaluate the quote.

28firefighter

This looks just delightful and the sound from the MPPSK is just lovely.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KZyYjlwQ/2017-bmw-340i-sedan

stickguy

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

not really a trick. Just an annoyance since you have to ask for the breakdown sheet. And it isn't every dealer. I have had some up front just give a clear summary of all the numbers on a lease, same as a purchase.

If anything, leases can be easier since if you know the payment you want it to be, can just shop that. $0 due at signing, 36 months/10,000 miles per year, and $350 a month is pretty cut and dried. The only thing that matters is the monthly payment, and I don't care what number gymnastics they have to do to make it work.

FJust set the parameters up front and there is only 1 moving part!

Here’s the issue - you pick a make and model, you tell the dealer $350/mo and $0 DAS. Dealer gives you the quote and off you go.

What if you learned you could have gotten the same car for $325/mo? That’s why knowing all the moving parts is important when you lease.

Lots of members post something like “$1000 down and $499/mo. Good deal?”

Sorry, can’t help you. As @kyfdx pointed out, you might as well ask the mailman or your next door neighbor. Need all the numbers to evaluate the quote.

well, I am assuming you did your homework, and know what a good deal would be. Not really any different than walking in and making an offer to purchase at say $32,500 OTD.

If you have no idea what a car should go for, you are likely getting hosed whether your lease or buy it.

stickguy

28firefighter said:

This looks just delightful and the sound from the MPPSK is just lovely.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KZyYjlwQ/2017-bmw-340i-sedan

nice car. Is that late enough to be a "good" version of the big engine? But black over black on a BMW, that is a lot of darkness.

oldfarmer50

28firefighter said:

This looks just delightful and the sound from the MPPSK is just lovely.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KZyYjlwQ/2017-bmw-340i-sedan

The last 5 minutes of that auction should be interesting.

stickguy

It should get pricey. I would have to bid low to keep enough money in reserve to keep replacing tires and wheels. Those are not going to survive long on the crappy roads around here.

stickguy

while I was over there...

I loved these when they came out. But at the time, with 2 young kids, it wasn't quite practical enough to pull off.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3OgP2oQv/2004-acura-rsx-type-s

And I definitely would not kick this one out of bed for eating crackers. Other than AWD, perfect. If you are getting a 996, this seems like the one you want.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KVaDZM2z/2003-porsche-911-carrera-4s-coupe

and this, is just weird. Might make more sense if you could fit a sports car on the back. But pretty weird, having a kitchen and bed, but no bathroom facilities.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rJyZnjgO/1996-ford-f-53-gulfstream-sun-sport

Michaell

stickguy said:

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

not really a trick. Just an annoyance since you have to ask for the breakdown sheet. And it isn't every dealer. I have had some up front just give a clear summary of all the numbers on a lease, same as a purchase.

If anything, leases can be easier since if you know the payment you want it to be, can just shop that. $0 due at signing, 36 months/10,000 miles per year, and $350 a month is pretty cut and dried. The only thing that matters is the monthly payment, and I don't care what number gymnastics they have to do to make it work.

FJust set the parameters up front and there is only 1 moving part!

Here’s the issue - you pick a make and model, you tell the dealer $350/mo and $0 DAS. Dealer gives you the quote and off you go.

What if you learned you could have gotten the same car for $325/mo? That’s why knowing all the moving parts is important when you lease.

Lots of members post something like “$1000 down and $499/mo. Good deal?”

Sorry, can’t help you. As @kyfdx pointed out, you might as well ask the mailman or your next door neighbor. Need all the numbers to evaluate the quote.

well, I am assuming you did your homework, and know what a good deal would be. Not really any different than walking in and making an offer to purchase at say $32,500 OTD.

If you have no idea what a car should go for, you are likely getting hosed whether your lease or buy it.

And, most folks who post in the lease threads haven’t.

stickguy

do the ones that post in the prices paid threads do it either?

One thing about leases. I would bet that the average person that walks in totally unprepared, when handed a full lease worksheet, is still gonna have no clue what is going on. I am sure it is done intentionally, but man, those lease sheets and contracts are absurdly complicated.

xwesx

28firefighter said:

I promise I’ll give it a rest after this. I’m just so impressed with how well things cleaned up.

I put in some OEM all weather floormats today so this is post-detail with new mats.

Speaking only for me, I'm enjoying the updates! It's a very sharp car.

As an aside, I did a similar setup for floor mats on my Q7, and I feel the same about my car as I do about yours: Should have gone with black mats.

Michaell

stickguy said:

do the ones that post in the prices paid threads do it either?

One thing about leases. I would bet that the average person that walks in totally unprepared, when handed a full lease worksheet, is still gonna have no clue what is going on. I am sure it is done intentionally, but man, those lease sheets and contracts are absurdly complicated.

The prices paid threads pretty much dried up when we moved to Vanilla. We do get some buying questions in the lease threads from time to time.

Those worksheets are complicated by design. And, the MF is not required to be disclosed.

The math for a lease payment is 4th grade level. Just that not all the numbers are shown, which gives the advantage to the dealer. We simply try to level the playing field.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

Got the wife’s reluctant approval on my money making scheme. Now just gotta get a chevy dealer to play ball

It's like having one of those retractable dog leashes.... It's all well and good to keep the pet (husband) on the desired path, but loosing the spool once in a while to allow some freedom of exploration does wonders for them in the long run.

28firefighter

xwesx said:

28firefighter said:

I promise I’ll give it a rest after this. I’m just so impressed with how well things cleaned up.

I put in some OEM all weather floormats today so this is post-detail with new mats.

Speaking only for me, I'm enjoying the updates! It's a very sharp car.

As an aside, I did a similar setup for floor mats on my Q7, and I feel the same about my car as I do about yours: Should have gone with black mats.

I seriously thought about it! But I am happy with this and they match the all weather liner in the trunk.

explorerx4

That Camaro is listing n the dealer website with a buy price of $31,756 after discount and $1,000 incentive.

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

tjc78 said:

I’m sure I’d like the Avalon TRD... but I just can’t move past that awful front end. Maybe in black it’s better? I haven’t seen one in the wild.

I haven’t looked at the numbers but I’d be willing to be Toyota is selling a fraction of the Avalon’s it used to sell from 2000 to 2008 or so.

Would love to hear your opinion of the Avalon. Need some company. I seem to be the only one in these parts who likes it.

From what I understand if you like Buicks you’ll like the Avalon. I never thought I’d like the ride of a Lincoln or Buick until I owned one.

Thanks! More interested in the TRD version given its alleged beefier suspension.

qbrozen

explorerx4 said:

That Camaro is listing n the dealer website with a buy price of $31,756 after discount and $1,000 incentive.

Correct. But then they claim their sale price does not include freight. I posted here a while back my email exchange with another VA dealer on this matter. It is a sleazy tactic supposedly perpetuated by all VA dealers.

breld

xwesx said:

28firefighter said:

I promise I’ll give it a rest after this. I’m just so impressed with how well things cleaned up.

I put in some OEM all weather floormats today so this is post-detail with new mats.

Speaking only for me, I'm enjoying the updates! It's a very sharp car.

As an aside, I did a similar setup for floor mats on my Q7, and I feel the same about my car as I do about yours: Should have gone with black mats.

Agreed - keep the updates and pics of the E61 coming...I’m enjoying them; it makes me nostalgic for my manual sport E60. I suppose when someone else buys a manual transmission German sports wagon here you can pass the torch.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

explorerx4 said:

That Camaro is listing n the dealer website with a buy price of $31,756 after discount and $1,000 incentive.

Correct. But then they claim their sale price does not include freight. I posted here a while back my email exchange with another VA dealer on this matter. It is a sleazy tactic supposedly perpetuated by all VA dealers.

The tricks never end do they? I suppose they can afford to PO knowledgeable buyers like you since the bulk of consumers wouldn’t know they were getting fooled.

stickguy

I can't figure out what the heck model is which on the camaros. I did check Rodo, they do have some LT 1lT models but those aren't V8s. And no where near that cheap! But I have found in the past, when these schemes come up, that the app does not come anywhere near the hack price.

Michaell

stickguy said:

I can't figure out what the heck model is which on the camaros. I did check Rodo, they do have some LT 1lT models but those aren't V8s. And no where near that cheap! But I have found in the past, when these schemes come up, that the app does not come anywhere near the hack price.

1LT is the turbo 4

LT1 is the V8 (may be seen on line as the 1LZ)

tjc78

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

tjc78 said:

I’m sure I’d like the Avalon TRD... but I just can’t move past that awful front end. Maybe in black it’s better? I haven’t seen one in the wild.

I haven’t looked at the numbers but I’d be willing to be Toyota is selling a fraction of the Avalon’s it used to sell from 2000 to 2008 or so.

Would love to hear your opinion of the Avalon. Need some company. I seem to be the only one in these parts who likes it.

From what I understand if you like Buicks you’ll like the Avalon. I never thought I’d like the ride of a Lincoln or Buick until I owned one.

Thanks! More interested in the TRD version given its alleged beefier suspension.

If it’s anything like the 2005+ Touring version it will be a little stiffer with some improved road feel. When I got my 06 I kept going back and forth between the XLS and the Touring. In the end the dealer was able to locate an XLS in the color combo I wanted so I went with that. The Touring only came in black interior which is my least favorite.

stickguy

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

I can't figure out what the heck model is which on the camaros. I did check Rodo, they do have some LT 1lT models but those aren't V8s. And no where near that cheap! But I have found in the past, when these schemes come up, that the app does not come anywhere near the hack price.

1LT is the turbo 4

LT1 is the V8 (may be seen on line as the 1LZ)

thanks. No V8s (other than an SS) on the app.

breld

Since I’ve been a bit obsessed over EVs lately, my wife suggested we go drive an eTron and Model Y. She didn’t have to ask twice.

The Audi impressed us for it’s, uh, Audi-ness. I appreciate that it looks pretty much like the other SUVs in the family, inside and out. Handsome styling, smart and sleek interior. The level of quality of materials and feel is what you’d expect from an SUV with a $70k sticker. And it happens to be all electric. Acceleration is great - overall seems on par with something like an SQ5 but with that smooth immediate torque. The only disappointing thing for me was the regenerative braking - you could use the accelerator pedal to modulate the speed effectively, and that was nice. But you couldn’t actually bring the car to a stop without the brake pedal...so no true one-pedal driving.

We then went to the mall for our 3:00 appointment to test out a Model Y. Nice process - they walk you out to the lot, give you a quick overview, and then send you on your way for an hour.

For me, I appreciate the styling of the Audi worlds better, but I recognize some of that is familiarity. The Tesla is without a doubt advanced and futuristic, but in a sort of generic way...it makes me think of what a director thinks a car should look like 20 years from now...like in Blade Runner or Minority Report, when people don’t care so much about the individual look of a car; it’s just a transport vehicle.

Having said that, driving the Tesla is sublime. I don’t care so much about the 0-60 time, but that immediate acceleration allows you to “place” the car quickly (which a lot of Tesla drivers seem to like to do). And before I handed the keys (figuratively) to my wife, I probably drove 20-30 miles in a parking lot, on the highway and through neighborhood streets...without ever touching the brake pedal. It’s easy to get used to that.

It’ll be interesting to see how the Mach E competes - by all accounts it seems to be faring well. But I do need to find a Ford dealership, or at least a salesperson, who seems interested in the product.

And then the Rivian comes later this year - that may combine the driving characteristics of the Tesla with a more robust design. But their SUV is also 202” long.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

while I was over there...

I loved these when they came out. But at the time, with 2 young kids, it wasn't quite practical enough to pull off.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3OgP2oQv/2004-acura-rsx-type-s

And I definitely would not kick this one out of bed for eating crackers. Other than AWD, perfect. If you are getting a 996, this seems like the one you want.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KVaDZM2z/2003-porsche-911-carrera-4s-coupe

and this, is just weird. Might make more sense if you could fit a sports car on the back. But pretty weird, having a kitchen and bed, but no bathroom facilities.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rJyZnjgO/1996-ford-f-53-gulfstream-sun-sport

I always like the rsx but I heard you had to rev the daylights out of it to get the claimed horsepower.

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

I can't figure out what the heck model is which on the camaros. I did check Rodo, they do have some LT 1lT models but those aren't V8s. And no where near that cheap! But I have found in the past, when these schemes come up, that the app does not come anywhere near the hack price.

1LT is the turbo 4

LT1 is the V8 (may be seen on line as the 1LZ)

I was always confused by Chevy’s model and trim designations. 1LT, 2LT, LS, LT etc. then on the Camaro there was RS and SS to designate different power trains. Made shopping very frustrating.

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

I can't figure out what the heck model is which on the camaros. I did check Rodo, they do have some LT 1lT models but those aren't V8s. And no where near that cheap! But I have found in the past, when these schemes come up, that the app does not come anywhere near the hack price.

1LT is the turbo 4

LT1 is the V8 (may be seen on line as the 1LZ)

I was always confused by Chevy’s model and trim designations. 1LT, 2LT, LS, LT etc. then on the Camaro there was RS and SS to designate different power trains. Made shopping very frustrating.

And now you can get an SS with the RS package. :b

carnaught

breld said:

Since I’ve been a bit obsessed over EVs lately, my wife suggested we go drive an eTron and Model Y. She didn’t have to ask twice.

The Audi impressed us for it’s, uh, Audi-ness. I appreciate that it looks pretty much like the other SUVs in the family, inside and out. Handsome styling, smart and sleek interior. The level of quality of materials and feel is what you’d expect from an SUV with a $70k sticker. And it happens to be all electric. Acceleration is great - overall seems on par with something like an SQ5 but with that smooth immediate torque. The only disappointing thing for me was the regenerative braking - you could use the accelerator pedal to modulate the speed effectively, and that was nice. But you couldn’t actually bring the car to a stop without the brake pedal...so no true one-pedal driving.

We then went to the mall for our 3:00 appointment to test out a Model Y. Nice process - they walk you out to the lot, give you a quick overview, and then send you on your way for an hour.

For me, I appreciate the styling of the Audi worlds better, but I recognize some of that is familiarity. The Tesla is without a doubt advanced and futuristic, but in a sort of generic way...it makes me think of what a director thinks a car should look like 20 years from now...like in Blade Runner or Minority Report, when people don’t care so much about the individual look of a car; it’s just a transport vehicle.

Having said that, driving the Tesla is sublime. I don’t care so much about the 0-60 time, but that immediate acceleration allows you to “place” the car quickly (which a lot of Tesla drivers seem to like to do). And before I handed the keys (figuratively) to my wife, I probably drove 20-30 miles in a parking lot, on the highway and through neighborhood streets...without ever touching the brake pedal. It’s easy to get used to that.

It’ll be interesting to see how the Mach E competes - by all accounts it seems to be faring well. But I do need to find a Ford dealership, or at least a salesperson, who seems interested in the product.

And then the Rivian comes later this year - that may combine the driving characteristics of the Tesla with a more robust design. But their SUV is also 202” long.

So, was your favorable impression of the Tesla enough for you to be on-board with one?

sda

In black the CT4 is really sharp. This one was not overly opted out but does have the sunroof and sound and cold weather packages for a total sticker of $37200 which isn't too bad.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

I can't figure out what the heck model is which on the camaros. I did check Rodo, they do have some LT 1lT models but those aren't V8s. And no where near that cheap! But I have found in the past, when these schemes come up, that the app does not come anywhere near the hack price.

1LT is the turbo 4

LT1 is the V8 (may be seen on line as the 1LZ)

I was always confused by Chevy’s model and trim designations. 1LT, 2LT, LS, LT etc. then on the Camaro there was RS and SS to designate different power trains. Made shopping very frustrating.

For the last number of years the RS was simply a trim/wheel package, with nothing different about the powertrain.

stickguy

back at the beginning with gen 1, the RS and SS packages were separate. SS performance, RS trim. I know you could get the SS with or without RS, and I assume could get just the RS

ab348

sda said:

In black the CT4 is really sharp. This one was not overly opted out but does have the sunroof and sound and cold weather packages for a total sticker of $37200 which isn't too bad.

The CT4 is a refresh of my ATS. The platform is great if you don't need rear seat room. You need to be careful with Cadillac models though as the base trim (they call it Luxury) limits some of the option choices you can get. The CT4 is not slow but it has the current 2.0 Turbo 4 which is less powerful than the ones the ATS offered, and in my experience, is a bit rough and growly.

qbrozen

sda said:

In black the CT4 is really sharp. This one was not overly opted out but does have the sunroof and sound and cold weather packages for a total sticker of $37200 which isn't too bad.

Huh. And here I was not even paying attention to it. $43k for one with the TT V6 and most niceties I would want, which puts it about $9k less than my previous 2018 330.

pensfan83

@28firefighter the car looks GREAT. Such a nice color combo too.

Dealing with Virginia dealers, my experience mimics @qbrozen's. The backing out of the destination charge is a silly practice and the Acura dealer didn't want to give me a deal sheet out of fear of me shopping it but gave me all the variables and when I plugged the numbers in I received a similar response when I presented them with my calculation. Ultimately I told them what I wanted and was told it was impossible. I signed a deal that was less than $20 higher than the "impossible" offer I made so I wasn't all that far off.

ab348

qbrozen said:

Huh. And here I was not even paying attention to it. $43k for one with the TT V6 and most niceties I would want, which puts it about $9k less than my previous 2018 330.

No, the CT4 gets the 2.7 Turbo 4 (also seen in the Silverado) as its upgrade engine, unless you pony up for the just-announced Blackwing model. The TT V6 can be had in the considerably more expensive/bigger CT5.

breld

carnaught said:

breld said:

Since I’ve been a bit obsessed over EVs lately, my wife suggested we go drive an eTron and Model Y. She didn’t have to ask twice.

The Audi impressed us for it’s, uh, Audi-ness. I appreciate that it looks pretty much like the other SUVs in the family, inside and out. Handsome styling, smart and sleek interior. The level of quality of materials and feel is what you’d expect from an SUV with a $70k sticker. And it happens to be all electric. Acceleration is great - overall seems on par with something like an SQ5 but with that smooth immediate torque. The only disappointing thing for me was the regenerative braking - you could use the accelerator pedal to modulate the speed effectively, and that was nice. But you couldn’t actually bring the car to a stop without the brake pedal...so no true one-pedal driving.

We then went to the mall for our 3:00 appointment to test out a Model Y. Nice process - they walk you out to the lot, give you a quick overview, and then send you on your way for an hour.

For me, I appreciate the styling of the Audi worlds better, but I recognize some of that is familiarity. The Tesla is without a doubt advanced and futuristic, but in a sort of generic way...it makes me think of what a director thinks a car should look like 20 years from now...like in Blade Runner or Minority Report, when people don’t care so much about the individual look of a car; it’s just a transport vehicle.

Having said that, driving the Tesla is sublime. I don’t care so much about the 0-60 time, but that immediate acceleration allows you to “place” the car quickly (which a lot of Tesla drivers seem to like to do). And before I handed the keys (figuratively) to my wife, I probably drove 20-30 miles in a parking lot, on the highway and through neighborhood streets...without ever touching the brake pedal. It’s easy to get used to that.

It’ll be interesting to see how the Mach E competes - by all accounts it seems to be faring well. But I do need to find a Ford dealership, or at least a salesperson, who seems interested in the product.

And then the Rivian comes later this year - that may combine the driving characteristics of the Tesla with a more robust design. But their SUV is also 202” long.

So, was your favorable impression of the Tesla enough for you to be on-board with one?

Oh definitely.

carnaught

breld said:

carnaught said:

breld said:

Since I’ve been a bit obsessed over EVs lately, my wife suggested we go drive an eTron and Model Y. She didn’t have to ask twice.

The Audi impressed us for it’s, uh, Audi-ness. I appreciate that it looks pretty much like the other SUVs in the family, inside and out. Handsome styling, smart and sleek interior. The level of quality of materials and feel is what you’d expect from an SUV with a $70k sticker. And it happens to be all electric. Acceleration is great - overall seems on par with something like an SQ5 but with that smooth immediate torque. The only disappointing thing for me was the regenerative braking - you could use the accelerator pedal to modulate the speed effectively, and that was nice. But you couldn’t actually bring the car to a stop without the brake pedal...so no true one-pedal driving.

We then went to the mall for our 3:00 appointment to test out a Model Y. Nice process - they walk you out to the lot, give you a quick overview, and then send you on your way for an hour.

For me, I appreciate the styling of the Audi worlds better, but I recognize some of that is familiarity. The Tesla is without a doubt advanced and futuristic, but in a sort of generic way...it makes me think of what a director thinks a car should look like 20 years from now...like in Blade Runner or Minority Report, when people don’t care so much about the individual look of a car; it’s just a transport vehicle.

Having said that, driving the Tesla is sublime. I don’t care so much about the 0-60 time, but that immediate acceleration allows you to “place” the car quickly (which a lot of Tesla drivers seem to like to do). And before I handed the keys (figuratively) to my wife, I probably drove 20-30 miles in a parking lot, on the highway and through neighborhood streets...without ever touching the brake pedal. It’s easy to get used to that.

It’ll be interesting to see how the Mach E competes - by all accounts it seems to be faring well. But I do need to find a Ford dealership, or at least a salesperson, who seems interested in the product.

And then the Rivian comes later this year - that may combine the driving characteristics of the Tesla with a more robust design. But their SUV is also 202” long.

So, was your favorable impression of the Tesla enough for you to be on-board with one?

Oh definitely.

So, which car in the fleet gets the ax?