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Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

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  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    kyfdx said:

    Random lease calculation (not saying which model this is.. lol)

    $55,000 MSRP
    -$5000 discount
    $50,000 selling price
    -$7500 rebate
    =$42,500
    + zero acq.fee
    + $500 dealer fee
    + $450 sales tax
    + $75 title/registration
    = $43525 adjusted CAP cost

    .00203 MF
    65% residual (36/10)

    $377/mo. + 6% sales tax = $400/mo.
    $400 DAS

    Looks like $5K+ potential flip profit, even accounting for a couple of payments and insurance?

    If there were any possibility of doing that here where I live, I would be down at the dealer first thing tomorrow morning for a test drive. Not saying I would buy one, the 4 door Wrangler doesn't excite me, but it would definitely be worth a test drive.

    And right now, there is a real scarcity of deals to be had.
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    stickguy said:

    my dealer had their usual addendum sticker, but just their standard $595 protection package ripoff (trunk mat, wheel locks, vin etching, maybe one more thing). No ADM listed. But I doubt there is much of a discount possible.

    In my experience, dealers don't really shout out about their "dealer add ons". When you look at online pricing from the web site, there is always fine print, but nowhere do they actually spell out the bottom line.

    You have to show up in person before the real numbers are revealed, at least in most cases.

    Right now, here in Houston, Texas, the only dealers showing any discount off of MSRP are the Volkswagen dealers. At least that's what I've seen from my limited perusing of dealer web sites.
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,403
    this was looking at the dealer add on sticker on the car on the lot, and I know if there was an ADM it would be listed! I think that car was fresh off the truck, so still time to print up a new one I guess.

    Good thing I am just browsing to see what I like. Still trying to hold out until year end/January range before doing anything.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,188
    Walked the MB/Porsche/Acura/Audi lots yesterday while LF was spending time with her mother. Amazing lack of new inventory. And, amazing higher prices on used...

    Sent LF pix of an '18 MB E400 (designo red w/maroon top/cream interior) and C300 (blue/blue/brown), '18 Audi A5 (gray/black/gray) and a '17 BMW 640xi (at Jag dealer, white/black/black). When asked which was her preference, "The white one."

    Dealers closed today, maybe we'll walk the lots together. But, I'm getting the feeling that she's just not comfy w/3 cars. Or trading her CX-5 for a vert. Oh, well. It's the thought that counts.

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,298
    @laurasdada, it does sound like she is not quite there yet on any of them. Maybe put the idea on the back burner for now and show your appreciation with a different (and possibly less expensive!) gift.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,403
    if she is not on board, at least wait until winter when the overall market might have settled down, and in New England definitely not convertible season.

    also sounds like upgrading to a nicer only car is a better move.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,224
    henryn said:

    stickguy said:

    my dealer had their usual addendum sticker, but just their standard $595 protection package ripoff (trunk mat, wheel locks, vin etching, maybe one more thing). No ADM listed. But I doubt there is much of a discount possible.

    In my experience, dealers don't really shout out about their "dealer add ons". When you look at online pricing from the web site, there is always fine print, but nowhere do they actually spell out the bottom line.

    You have to show up in person before the real numbers are revealed, at least in most cases.

    Right now, here in Houston, Texas, the only dealers showing any discount off of MSRP are the Volkswagen dealers. At least that's what I've seen from my limited perusing of dealer web sites.
    The Kia store where I bought my Soul doesn’t have any ADMs at least according to a coworker whose wife bought a new car there last week. They even advertise an extra $1500 on trades.

    Of course they may be low balling the offer on the trade to compensate.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289

    henryn said:

    stickguy said:

    my dealer had their usual addendum sticker, but just their standard $595 protection package ripoff (trunk mat, wheel locks, vin etching, maybe one more thing). No ADM listed. But I doubt there is much of a discount possible.

    In my experience, dealers don't really shout out about their "dealer add ons". When you look at online pricing from the web site, there is always fine print, but nowhere do they actually spell out the bottom line.

    You have to show up in person before the real numbers are revealed, at least in most cases.

    Right now, here in Houston, Texas, the only dealers showing any discount off of MSRP are the Volkswagen dealers. At least that's what I've seen from my limited perusing of dealer web sites.
    The Kia store where I bought my Soul doesn’t have any ADMs at least according to a coworker whose wife bought a new car there last week. They even advertise an extra $1500 on trades.

    Of course they may be low balling the offer on the trade to compensate.
    I just checked the web site for the nearest Kia dealer, checking the inventory on new Souls. 11 new, 10 2021, 1 2022. 2 LX, 9 S models. The 2021 models show a $1,750 "national rebate", and about $500 to $600 dealer discount. If they're showing a dealer discount, then I wouldn't think they would have a "market adjustment". No idea about add-ons. If there are no add ons, that makes 2 brands available locally below MSRP. So if you really need a car, you can buy one. Maybe not the car you want, but ...
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,298
    Just for fun I rolled thru the lots at the nearby Ford and Kia dealers today as they were closed. The cupboard was nearly bare at the Ford store, with an Explorer, an Escape, an Edge, both a Roush and a GT Mustang, and not much else. Remarkable. Kia was also pretty sparse but they had a bit more selection but nothing close to normal.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,188
    She's got Friday off, she (as of today) plans to car shop; I'll give her a map of where the current crop of verts are located. If still available.

    But, I will back off a bit, it's really up to her. But, to tell you the truth, of course I'm enjoying the hunt! And, as I head towards SS age, I'm really fighting the urge to do some kind of Delta House-like all out stupid gesture. Like all here, I've worked a long time, helped put two kids through braces, summer camp and college. Bought one a car!

    I warned the LC, it may happen. Upcoming two car garage with space for a car (or two!) behind...
    I drove British for just shy of 10 years, only one show stopping incident (warranty), perhaps it's time to follow the Clarkson thought that one only buys the Jag XK because they can't afford an Aston Martin; that DB11 sure is purty...

    The A7 continues to be fun in the new tech department (the electric cruising and spaceship sounds amuse all around me), but I'm not a fan of the dual screens. Buttons and switches are just so simple and functional. It's a great GT, eats up the highway smoothly and quietly. Handles well enough, but not Mulholland, Angeles Crest of TAil of the Dragon worthy.

    While at the Jag dealer, they had a '15 Jag XF for sale, Blue/beige. I tear came to my eye, but when I looked in the window, my instant reaction was, "Wow, that's an old looking interior design." Luckily, I was not struck down by Sir William at that moment!

    Urges to resist, I know I'm in the right place for support.

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Member Posts: 9,839

    @tifighter you surviving the heat? Hearing south sound is about 10-20 degrees warmer than us up north.

    2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,644
    Let's play a game - Guess the Markup!

    I caught F9 today at the IMAX theater, and @breld was heading to the MB store just a short 5 minute drive from the complex, so I joined him for a quick lot walk.

    Spotted this on the forecourt - I took a picture of the dealer sticker, but I'll wait to post it after I've allowed you to guess how much the markup is.

    G63, for the uninitiated:


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  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,347

    $15k.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Member Posts: 9,839

    $55k ADM

    2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,403
    the Gwagen, those always seem to get stupid money.

    I think if I had to get a car right now, I could do it. would probably end up leasing to not get stuck on the wrong end of the bubble. But most likely, it might not be my ideal car. But I am sure I could get something that was acceptable. Probably some sort of hybrid hyundai.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,740
    I'll go with $30k. I figure if it is ~$165k MSRP, another $30k will still be under the $200k threshold.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • mjfloyd1mjfloyd1 Member Posts: 3,806

    @oldfarmer50 said:
    The Kia store where I bought my Soul doesn’t have any ADMs at least according to a coworker whose wife bought a new car there last week. They even advertise an extra $1500 on trades.

    Of course they may be low balling the offer on the trade to compensate.

    You bought your soul? Mine came standard :)

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,403
    I had one, but sold it for the first decent offer!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,439
    I will guess at least 20K ADM, those aren't easy to find even if there isn't a huge amount of demand now that the newness is wearing off. Color is a Designo Manufaktur hue (might even be the "China Blue I like), $6500 option in itself IIRC. i suspect MSRP is at least 175K.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,298
    fintail said:

    I will guess at least 20K ADM, those aren't easy to find even if there isn't a huge amount of demand now that the newness is wearing off. Color is a Designo Manufaktur hue (might even be the "China Blue I like), $6500 option in itself IIRC. i suspect MSRP is at least 175K.

    I always though of China as Red. :D

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,510

    $50K Markup

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,644
    I'll add a hint, so if you want to take a second crack at this, no problem.

    This is the same MB dealer where @breld noted last week that every GLE on the lot was marked up between $2K and $5K.

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  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,304
    My date tonight had a current model Mazda3 hatch with AWD. I had forgotten they offered AWD on those. I didn't get a good look at it other than seeing the AWD badge, as I was trying to pay attention to her and not her car. :D
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,577

    $10k

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,439
    edited June 2021
    As makers love to pander to that market, surprised it isn't a thing.

    China Blue came around as the rename of a very similar color to my fintail, I think maybe referring to Wedgwood style ware. MB also had a "Havana Brown", later renamed "Tobacco Brown".


    Speaking of car shopping, my ~70 year old uncle has become bored with the Taurus he took over from my grandma, which replaced a LeSabre he had for years. He's now eyeing a 60K mile 2012 Honda Fit, kind of a left field choice. He was excited about an element he found for sale, but it sold - interesting that he's into these cars now.
    ab348 said:

    fintail said:

    I will guess at least 20K ADM, those aren't easy to find even if there isn't a huge amount of demand now that the newness is wearing off. Color is a Designo Manufaktur hue (might even be the "China Blue I like), $6500 option in itself IIRC. i suspect MSRP is at least 175K.

    I always though of China as Red. :D
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,644
    fintail said:

    As makers love to pander to that market, surprised it isn't a thing.

    China Blue came around as the rename of a very similar color to my fintail, I think maybe referring to Wedgwood style ware. MB also had a "Havana Brown", later renamed "Tobacco Brown".



    ab348 said:

    fintail said:

    I will guess at least 20K ADM, those aren't easy to find even if there isn't a huge amount of demand now that the newness is wearing off. Color is a Designo Manufaktur hue (might even be the "China Blue I like), $6500 option in itself IIRC. i suspect MSRP is at least 175K.

    I always though of China as Red. :D
    Ford offered Medium Wedgwood Blue as a color on the Expedition around the turn of the Century. Not sure if it’s still on the palette.

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  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,221
    edited June 2021
    Great color on the BMW though have no clue what they call it, looks like bronze. Nice looking vehicle and something I could actually love I'm thinking. Looks similar in color to the bronze Mini Cooper Countryman I drove last week. And it's looking like a Mini Cooper might be on my short list again. Definitely an ex-loaner would be the way to go and size wise, it's just perfect. Just wish this chip situation would come to an end so there would be plenty more to chose from. I guess it's just my life, the timing that is, once I'm finally ready to make a move, there's almost nothing to make that move with! Another example where timing matters in life situations & decisions. But one day soon, everything will align and the perfect vehicle will be found at the perfect price with the right amount of options and hopefully 0% financing...and I'll just do it, and not look back!

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,224
    Michaell said:

    Let's play a game - Guess the Markup!

    I caught F9 today at the IMAX theater, and @breld was heading to the MB store just a short 5 minute drive from the complex, so I joined him for a quick lot walk.

    Spotted this on the forecourt - I took a picture of the dealer sticker, but I'll wait to post it after I've allowed you to guess how much the markup is.

    G63, for the uninitiated:


    Well, since those are about $160k to start I’d guess a 10% ADM or $15-20k. Anybody that would buy a boat like that probability has a few extra bucks burning a hole in his pocket.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,224
    mjfloyd1 said:

    @oldfarmer50 said:

    The Kia store where I bought my Soul doesn’t have any ADMs at least according to a coworker whose wife bought a new car there last week. They even advertise an extra $1500 on trades.

    Of course they may be low balling the offer on the trade to compensate.

    You bought your soul? Mine came standard :)


    You couldn’t help yourself, right? :p

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,298
    I'll take $40K in the ADM G63 Price is Right game.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • au1994au1994 Member Posts: 3,712
    Michaell said:

    fintail said:

    As makers love to pander to that market, surprised it isn't a thing.

    China Blue came around as the rename of a very similar color to my fintail, I think maybe referring to Wedgwood style ware. MB also had a "Havana Brown", later renamed "Tobacco Brown".



    ab348 said:

    fintail said:

    I will guess at least 20K ADM, those aren't easy to find even if there isn't a huge amount of demand now that the newness is wearing off. Color is a Designo Manufaktur hue (might even be the "China Blue I like), $6500 option in itself IIRC. i suspect MSRP is at least 175K.

    I always though of China as Red. :D
    Ford offered Medium Wedgwood Blue as a color on the Expedition around the turn of the Century. Not sure if it’s still on the palette.
    I had a 99 Explorer in that color over tan leather. I loved that color and the Explorer for that matter. Yes it had the Firestones but other than that, zero issues.

    2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
    2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,978

    @fintail
    When you head over to get that G wagon make sure to get them to at least throw in some all weather mats!

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,618
    au1994 said:

    Yes it had the Firestones but other than that, zero issues.

    I've been under the impression that it wasn't the tires themselves, but the lack of monitoring the pressure in them, that was the issue. For decades Firestone was the default tire brand for new Ford products. My Lincoln LS came with Firestones that were supposedly designed specifically for the car.

    The whole mess begat TPMS, and here we are.

    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,644
    Ok, folks, here are the guesses that I’ve documented:

    @roadburner $15k
    @28firefighter $55k
    @qbrozen $30k
    @fintail $20k
    @nyccarguy $50k
    @carnaught $10k
    @oldfarmer50 $15-20k
    @ab348 $40k

    I’ll post the ADM sticker shortly, if anyone else wants to jump in with a guess or revise their original one.

    I will share the MSRP of the car, however…. $180k

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  • 28firefighter28firefighter Member Posts: 9,839
    edited June 2021

    I’m revising up. I’ll say $80k- $260k total with ADM.

    2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,403
    $25,000

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 266,109
    edited June 2021
    I think $249,000 total with the ADM

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  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    Michaell said:

    Ok, folks, here are the guesses that I’ve documented:

    @roadburner $15k
    @28firefighter $55k
    @qbrozen $30k
    @fintail $20k
    @nyccarguy $50k
    @carnaught $10k
    @oldfarmer50 $15-20k
    @ab348 $40k

    I’ll post the ADM sticker shortly, if anyone else wants to jump in with a guess or revise their original one.

    I will share the MSRP of the car, however…. $180k

    I'm going low. Put me down for $8k.
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,618
    If you have to ask. . .
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289

    au1994 said:

    Yes it had the Firestones but other than that, zero issues.

    I've been under the impression that it wasn't the tires themselves, but the lack of monitoring the pressure in them, that was the issue. For decades Firestone was the default tire brand for new Ford products. My Lincoln LS came with Firestones that were supposedly designed specifically for the car.

    The whole mess begat TPMS, and here we are.

    Over all, I like the TPMS system. There have been times when I cursed it, but over the long haul, averaged out, I think it has done more good than harm.
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,403
    TPMS is fantastic. I would hate to not have it. And individual read outs are the best! IMO very valuable, even if you don’t get a flat that it notifies you about.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,978

    One curious omission from Volvo. No individual read outs. Really miss that coming from GM and Hyundai. My lowly Elantra had it, why can’t a 60K Volvo?

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,590
    tjc78 said:

    One curious omission from Volvo. No individual read outs. Really miss that coming from GM and Hyundai. My lowly Elantra had it, why can’t a 60K Volvo?

    Honda, Audi, VW don't show the individual tire pressure, at least those that we've owned. The 06 TL does as did my 08 HHR LT2. Having the individual tire pressure shown is extremely helpful. If the TPMS light comes on I have to check the pressure on each tire to determine which one is low...unless it is flat.

    2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech

  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,590
    Michaell said:

    Ok, folks, here are the guesses that I’ve documented:

    @roadburner $15k
    @28firefighter $55k
    @qbrozen $30k
    @fintail $20k
    @nyccarguy $50k
    @carnaught $10k
    @oldfarmer50 $15-20k
    @ab348 $40k

    I’ll post the ADM sticker shortly, if anyone else wants to jump in with a guess or revise their original one.

    I will share the MSRP of the car, however…. $180k

    For fun, $100k

    2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech

  • mjfloyd1mjfloyd1 Member Posts: 3,806

    30k

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] ColoradoPosts: 0
    $75k
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,644
    Presented without commentary:


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  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    tjc78 said:

    One curious omission from Volvo. No individual read outs. Really miss that coming from GM and Hyundai. My lowly Elantra had it, why can’t a 60K Volvo?

    Volkswagen at one point was using the tire speed sensor instead of TPMS sensors. If the tire inflation was low, the tire speed sensor would report more revolutions per mile than the the other 3 tires and the tire pressure warning would be triggered.

    I don't know if they're still using that, and I have no idea what Volvo is doing.

    I will agree that the individual read outs are very handy, I would not want that to be missing on any new car I was considering. Not a deal breaker, but a negative.
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 266,109
    tjc78 said:

    One curious omission from Volvo. No individual read outs. Really miss that coming from GM and Hyundai. My lowly Elantra had it, why can’t a 60K Volvo?

    Same with the GTI. It just tells me which tire is low

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  • 28firefighter28firefighter Member Posts: 9,839

    My revised guess wins!

    2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
This discussion has been closed.