Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

au1994

If you do it at Mall of GA, let me know. We should get pretty similar build and delivery dates.

I’ll spring for the Waffle House.

mjfloyd1

@au1994 said:
If you do it at Mall of GA, let me know. We should get pretty similar build and delivery dates.

I’ll spring for the Waffle House.

Sounds good except I’m a type 1 diabetic- so hold the waffles for me😂

au1994

mjfloyd1 said:

@au1994 said:

If you do it at Mall of GA, let me know. We should get pretty similar build and delivery dates.

I’ll spring for the Waffle House.

Sounds good except I’m a type 1 diabetic- so hold the waffles for me😂

I don’t do the waffles either. Just a double hash brown, with ham, cheese, onions topped with chili.

Then I double my Crestor dose that night!

xwesx

stickguy said:

Wes, by your standards, the temp gauge and fuel gauge is a nanny. Better get rid of them too! Smoke from under the hood and the engine dying from empty tank is all you need!

Well, apparently manufacturers feel the same way, because cars don't have temp gauges or oil gauges anymore. At least we do still have fuel gauges, for the most part, and things haven't gone strictly to "distance to empty" or dummy lights.

Michaell

au1994 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

@au1994 said:

If you do it at Mall of GA, let me know. We should get pretty similar build and delivery dates.

I’ll spring for the Waffle House.

Sounds good except I’m a type 1 diabetic- so hold the waffles for me😂

I don’t do the waffles either. Just a double hash brown, with ham, cheese, onions topped with chili.

Then I double my Crestor dose that night!

I'm full just reading that.

henryn

xwesx said:

stickguy said:

Wes, by your standards, the temp gauge and fuel gauge is a nanny. Better get rid of them too! Smoke from under the hood and the engine dying from empty tank is all you need!

Well, apparently manufacturers feel the same way, because cars don't have temp gauges or oil gauges anymore. At least we do still have fuel gauges, for the most part, and things haven't gone strictly to "distance to empty" or dummy lights.

Even when the manufacturer does include an oil pressure gauge, it's more like an idiot light with a needle (Ford, I'm looking at you!)

xwesx

henryn said:

xwesx said:

stickguy said:

Wes, by your standards, the temp gauge and fuel gauge is a nanny. Better get rid of them too! Smoke from under the hood and the engine dying from empty tank is all you need!

Well, apparently manufacturers feel the same way, because cars don't have temp gauges or oil gauges anymore. At least we do still have fuel gauges, for the most part, and things haven't gone strictly to "distance to empty" or dummy lights.

Even when the manufacturer does include an oil pressure gauge, it's more like an idiot light with a needle (Ford, I'm looking at you!)

Yep. I would much rather have gauges that just tell me what's going on rather than anything else, including idiot lights, that really don't say anything and leave the operator guessing. And, that's my big annoyance with TPMS: It's costly, most of the systems don't actually tell you anything (pressure-per-tire systems get a pass here), and I have only ever had false positives with the systems.

The first car I had with this, my 2008 Subaru Outback, I spent 45 minutes hunting around Watson Lake at 0500 hours, with a temperature around 20 degrees, trying to find a place I could add air to my tires because I had that light on and I thought that maybe I caught a leak in one of the rear tires. My pressure gauge (handheld) noted that one rear tire was one PSI lower than the others, but they were all still at 28-29 PSI (manufacturer/dealer-set and I had not adjusted them). Eventually, I gave up finding a place and we just headed on down the road. After 20 miles or so, the light went off and we had no more issues... and that's the last time I ever took TPMS seriously.

There have been a few times in the years since where I have had a leak (nails, screws, etc), and I found every one of them the old-fashioned way: I observed a low tire before getting in to drive away.

I realize I'm in the minority here, but when people have these systems, they come to rely on them. At that point, two things happen: 1., People ignore what should be obvious (if they monitored themselves) and eventually end up doing damage that they could have avoided had they not assumed the system would warn them in time., or 2., They ignore/delay the warning and have a bad day anyway.

tjc78

@henryn said:
Even when the manufacturer does include an oil pressure gauge, it's more like an idiot light with a needle (Ford, I'm looking at you!)

I think GM still puts real oil pressure gauges in.

mjfloyd1

My 4xe is in “scheduling for assembly “. Whatever that means.

qbrozen

mjfloyd1 said:

GA auto mall caps discount at 6% off invoice for leases (or special financing rates through CCAP if you are buying)

The 7% discount off invoice said “financing through dealership with minimum amount financed $25k”

Is the 6% with or without affiliate discount? That's an extra 1%.

corvette

My Tundra has an oil gauge, but I'm unsure of the way it operates, and pressure readouts on the instrument cluster for all four tires.

The forward collision warning threw a fit on me for no reason today--first time in 12,000 miles. Thankfully, it didn't engage the braking function. There was nothing nearby in my lane. The only thing I can think of is that it might have mistaken a bridge overhead for something in my path.

mjfloyd1

@qbrozen said:
Is the 6% with or without affiliate discount? That's an extra 1%.

6% below invoice is with affiliate discount

Sandman6472

Michael, I don't like any vehicular drama no mater what, so even with that extra "0" at the end of my monthly income, I'd feel the same way about it. But yes, you're probably right, with that extra "0", I'd probably look at more expensive vehicles but they'd have to have a very good reliability record. What's the sense of having an uber expensive vehicle if it spends most of it's time at the dealer getting fixed? Still ridiculous!
Luckily, my two jobs keep me behind the wheels of mostly new vehicles so I can keep up with what's currently out there and if I happen to try one that fits all my wants & needs for my next vehicle, that's a win/win for me and I'll buy/lease it. So far, that elusive vehicle has yet to appear but have a feeling I'm getting warmer in my search. But the big thing here is that I'm finally ready, finally ready to let go of the current Golf and actually consider something else, something that has taken me awhile to even consider. 2022 is looking like it'll be the year to make a move and am very excited to see where I land!

mjfloyd1

@qbrozen said:
Is the 6% with or without affiliate discount? That's an extra 1%.

5% under invoice is base

6% under invoice with affiliate code

7% under invoice with affiliate code and in house financing of at least $25k

fintail

That's hilarious, greed and stupidity are not a good mix. They'll be making birthday cakes for that thing unless some pro athlete's arm candy needs a new car. The G65 didn't cost that much not long ago.

Michaell said:

Presented without commentary:

fintail

Oh, I'll get the cargo mat and the undercoating thrown in, too.

tjc78 said:

@fintail

When you head over to get that G wagon make sure to get them to at least throw in some all weather mats!

henryn

Long ago, back in the early 2000’s, I owned a Ford F250 diesel, and I hung out in the Ford diesel forums. One of the guys in there was an electrical engineer, he went to a fair bit of trouble to prove that the oil pressure gauge in our trucks could only show two readings. Zero or 5/8 of the full scale. No possible way could the gauge show anything other than one of those 2 readings. Fast forward to my 2018 F150, and every day I owned it the oil pressure was at exactly 5/8. And I have read, but haven’t seen conclusive proof, that the coolant temperature gauge is “damped” to prevent fluctuations.

As to TPMS, I have come to rely on them. In my experience, they work, and they warn me when I have a low tire. In the bad old days, pre TPMS, I would check all of my tires with a gauge at least once per week. These days I may go a month or two before I break out the gauge and do a manual check.

Every fall, when the first cold front blows through, the TPMS will go off and I have to add a few pounds of air to all of the tires. No big deal. My main gripe is when I go to swap wheels and have to fool with the blinkin’ things, or rotate tires myself and have to deal with it. One reason I let Quick Lane do the tire rotations on my Ford trucks. They throw in a tire rotation with the oil change (including TPMS reset), and for a very reasonable price.

The last oil change and tire rotation on the 2018 F150, Quick Lane screwed up. I was washing the truck about a week later, and noticed that one of the wheel locks was halfway unscrewed and sticking out. I checked, and the other 3 wheel locks (one per wheel) were finger tight. I’m not sure I want to trust them now. Oh, well.

stickguy

use the JMonroe method. check them all with your own torque wrench before you leave the shop!

I let the Acura dealer do the rotations. Saves me a trip to a tire store, and having to wait around. Usually about $20 extra on top of the oil change and inspection. A good deal to me. I don't have floor jack or lift to even try doing it myself, especially since I would have to keep swapping on the donut since can only get one wheel off the ground at a time. Plus, I have zero interest in wrestling the wheels around! Whatever they need to do to get the sensors resynced to the new corner, they must do since I have never had a problem with it.

I never bother to break out the gauge at this point. At least weekly I scroll through the TC display and check all 4 readings. If good, that's it. Of course if the warning light came on I would pull out the manual gauge and check to make sure.

corvette

@henryn - if you have a Discount Tire in your area, they are excellent. Super clean shops, but a victim of their own success--the ones in my city are always busy and you will generally wait longer than you would expect.

I think most auxiliary gauges are damped--it looks "cleaner" if the coolant gauge always stays at the midpoint. There should probably be a range where that's acceptable, but if it's like what you describe, it's essentially an on/off switch, and effectively useless. The oil pressure gauge in the Tundra reads higher on a cold start and seems to stay at the midpoint during normal driving, although I don't usually pay much attention to it.

stickguy

I want to get a car. Don't really want to have to deal with the process now (still not used to normal shopping!), and definitely not the lack of supplies/deals! Oh, and paying for it. Really not ready for that now.

Tough times for someone with issues narrowing down the short list. Too many options that aren't even available at the moment. Hopefully better by Q4.

I guess I can't be in a hurry, since the top 4 options on the moment haven't even been released yet (Civic Hatch, GTI, Maverick and Santa Cruz). Yes, I get fixated on new releases.

Michaell

stickguy said:

I want to get a car. Don't really want to have to deal with the process now (still not used to normal shopping!), and definitely not the lack of supplies/deals! Oh, and paying for it. Really not ready for that now.

Tough times for someone with issues narrowing down the short list. Too many options that aren't even available at the moment. Hopefully better by Q4.

I guess I can't be in a hurry, since the top 4 options on the moment haven't even been released yet (Civic Hatch, GTI, Maverick and Santa Cruz). Yes, I get fixated on new releases.

Every month I don't have a car payment is a month where it becomes harder to take the plunge with something new (or, not so new).

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

Presented without commentary:

That must include the all weather floor mats.

Michaell

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

Presented without commentary:

That must include the all weather floor mats.

I think about the conversation that took place before they wrote up that sticker:

General Sales Manager: "How much should we mark this up?"
Random voice from the room: "$8K?"
GSM: "Nah, not even 5% of MSRP"
Second random voice: "$25K?"
GSM: "Closer."

Then, some rookie manager shouts out from the corner of the room:

Rookie Manager: "How about $80K?"
GSM: "Who was that? Rivers, is that you? Splendid thinking, my boy - we'll get ridiculed on the internet, and somebody will be foolish enough to pay it. Smithers, write up that ADM pronto. Meeting adjourned."

And, did they do it with a straight face?

stickguy

more likely they did it to get attention (it worked!) and can make a big thing about dropping it by half and selling it cheap for only $40K over.

Man, that would make a really nice commission for some salesperson!

stickguy

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

I want to get a car. Don't really want to have to deal with the process now (still not used to normal shopping!), and definitely not the lack of supplies/deals! Oh, and paying for it. Really not ready for that now.

Tough times for someone with issues narrowing down the short list. Too many options that aren't even available at the moment. Hopefully better by Q4.

I guess I can't be in a hurry, since the top 4 options on the moment haven't even been released yet (Civic Hatch, GTI, Maverick and Santa Cruz). Yes, I get fixated on new releases.

Every month I don't have a car payment is a month where it becomes harder to take the plunge with something new (or, not so new).

same here. I still don't need one. Actually kind of surprised we made it this long with only one car without it becoming an inconvenience. Might happen soon if the wife goes back to the office once in a while. But I am enjoying not having a 2nd payment. Though I guess the solution to that, is pay cash instead. But I just took the extra and paid down a chunk of mortgage principal. Trying to get that all paid off in another 2 years max if possible.

though end of the year when my pension kicks in, all bets are off!

qbrozen

@stickguy said:
more likely they did it to get attention (it worked!) and can make a big thing about dropping it by half and selling it cheap for only $40K over.

Man, that would make a really nice commission for some salesperson!

Its the Bandit car. Only 1 of 5 used in the movie. $200k but I’ll give it to you for 80.

breld

So I find this XC90 on Autotrader earlier today. 2021 Denim Blue T6 R-Design with Blond leather. Well equipped with all the right packages and even the Polestar tune. It’s discounted almost $7k.

I call the dealership, speak to a salesman and confirm the pricing. He says it was driven a couple days by a manager and has 200 miles. No biggie to me, so I say I’ll come right down to take a look.

It’s in the showroom, so I take it all in and then ask to drive a similar XC90 T6 to reacquaint myself with it…didn’t want to bother them to pull this particular one out of the showroom.

Test drive was nice (@jpp75 joined me, as the dealership is close to his home)…reaffirms what I liked about my V90 CC.

I return to the dealership strongly considering putting a deposit on it…the salesperson tells the manager the pricing that’s in their system and that he confirmed with me. The manager appears surprised, goes away, and then comes back to state there’s an error and that the pricing hadn’t been updated. So basically it was priced with that $7k discount (including incentives) in recent history, but they adjusted their pricing based on current inventory but missed this particular R-Design. He offers a price about $1,700 higher.

I make it clear I’m ready to purchase if they honor the price I confirmed with the salesperson prior to visiting the dealership. No go. Unbelievable.

It’s not so much the extra $1,700…that’s actually still a pretty good deal. But it’s just disingenuous. I get an online source may not be updated, but when I call the dealership to confirm pricing, I expect them to honor that.

Picture of this beautiful example, FWIW…

xwesx

breld said:

I make it clear I’m ready to purchase if they honor the price I confirmed with the salesperson prior to visiting the dealership. No go. Unbelievable.

It’s not so much the extra $1,700…that’s actually still a pretty good deal. But it’s just disingenuous. I get an online source may not be updated, but when I call the dealership to confirm pricing, I expect them to honor that.

Yeah, that's just a bad idea on the manager's part. How does that old saying go? A bird in hand is worth two in the bush....

tjc78

That’s a rare XC. Not many R-design and even less with blond leather.

Shame it didn’t work out. We really love ours. Only complaint from my wife is the lane keep assist is a little aggressive (which it is). What’s funny is on my S60 it’s very subtle, even when we picked it up the salesperson mentioned the XC was programmed differently.

sda

corvette said:

@henryn - if you have a Discount Tire in your area, they are excellent. Super clean shops, but a victim of their own success--the ones in my city are always busy and you will generally wait longer than you would expect.

I think most auxiliary gauges are damped--it looks "cleaner" if the coolant gauge always stays at the midpoint. There should probably be a range where that's acceptable, but if it's like what you describe, it's essentially an on/off switch, and effectively useless. The oil pressure gauge in the Tundra reads higher on a cold start and seems to stay at the midpoint during normal driving, although I don't usually pay much attention to it.

I've been a Discount Tire customer for years and have been very pleased with their service and prices. They have become very busy. I have found having an appointment is a real plus in getting reasonably quick service, generally in an out in an hour or less.

stickguy

Gorgeous color combo on the Volvo. I agree, should have just honored it if you were buying it right then. Most SMs would have.

Craig had a story about that. Some lot guy sale tagged a car wrong (LX tag in an EX Accord I think). A sharp buyer saw it, and as soon as they looked at it salesman realized the mistake. But told buyer it was their lucky day if they bought it then. But if not, tag was being changed as soon as they left.

Best part, they decided to try and beat it, so went to other dealers, got laughed at, so came back to 1st place, and had the nerve to be upset that they wouldn’t still give it to him for the wrong price.

nyccarguy

@breld - that stinks. It’s a terrible way to do business. They completely could have said to you: “We did make an error on the price, but since we confirmed it with you over the phone we will honor it if you buy the car now.”

I wonder if an email to the manager’s boss or dealer principle would do anything. Just be polite, state the facts, how you recently owned a Volvo, a d were excited to purchase another one. You understand the current market conditions and the chip shortage, but did call in advance to double check the discount...

corvette

stickguy said:

Craig had a story about that. Some lot guy sale tagged a car wrong (LX tag in an EX Accord I think). A sharp buyer saw it, and as soon as they looked at it salesman realized the mistake. But told buyer it was their lucky day if they bought it then. But if not, tag was being changed as soon as they left.

Best part, they decided to try and beat it, so went to other dealers, got laughed at, so came back to 1st place, and had the nerve to be upset that they wouldn’t still give it to him for the wrong price.

With all the games dealers play, I can't blame the buyer for assuming that was a fib and trying to get a better price.

qbrozen

Odd. I thought all R Designs had black guts.

breld

I was surprised by the blond interior too - I knew they finally put full leather in the R Design instead of the suede inserts, but figured they were all still black.

In any case, it is probably a rare combo…hmm…still want it.

Thing is on the “error,” it wasn’t even an error where it was priced as a different model, or incentives were combined incorrectly…they simply didn’t complete their market adjustment for the R Design group (that’s what they told me). So it was a very real price days, weeks, maybe months ago.

Looking up dealer invoice on the car, and taking into account $3,250 in Volvo incentives, the erroneous advertised price was about $600 over invoice (less incentives). Normal deal in pre-pandemic times I’d say (though incentives would have been higher). The deal the manager offered me was about $2,400 over invoice, or more or less splitting the difference between invoice and MSRP…about $5,100 off with the incentive.

They’ve already updated the online pricing to simply reflect MSRP less the $3,250 incentive, which is in line with all the other Volvos.

Like I said, the deal he offered me was decent, but just tempered by the overall experience. The main thing is I took the time to confirm the pricing with the salesperson before heading in.

henryn

@breld, I really really don't like it when they tell you one thing on the phone, and then change their story when you show up in person with money in hand (or a pen ready to sign). In my experience, it happens far too often and is one of the reasons people don't like car shopping. In this case it sounds like they weren't being intentionally dishonest, but they weren't standing behind their word either.

henryn

I have been a Discount Tire customer for many years. I really can't remember the last time I bought a set of new tires anywhere else, probably at Sam's Club 20 years ago (or longer). As others here have said, their biggest problem right now is their success, the wait times are getting rather bad.

In recent years, not driving as much as I used to, I get one oil change per year, and I time that to coincide with the annual state inspection. Quick Lane does both, and normally the wait time is not bad, average of 90 minutes in and out, state inspection, oil change, tire rotation. With the Town and Country, I was using the closest CDJR dealership. They charge more than Quick Lane, but the price is not outlandish, and I can get in and out in about the same amount of time for all 3 services.

The price at the CDJR dealer would be quite similar except they don't throw in the tire rotation.

sda

I got really turned off by a Toyota dealer about two weeks before I purchased the 13 Accord. I was actually buying my first Toyota, a 13 Camry XLE that was the equivalent of the Accord EX I ended up buying. I was a little wary of the CVT but the Accord was offered with a lifetime engine/trans warranty. My job had relocated and I knew I had a long commute of 44 miles each way. I wanted something comfortable and economical. We had determined the trade value of our 09 Civic EX and and purchase price of the Camry. When they calculated the difference between the two cars it was almost $2k off. What? Mop and Glo and other extras, non-negotiable. That wasn't mentioned as we put the deal together. I walked. Bought the Accord two weeks later, no regrets. I have yet to own a Toyota.

stickguy

You must be in that infamous Toyota dealer zone (southeast?). Heard horror stories about them.

qbrozen

breld said:

I was surprised by the blond interior too - I knew they finally put full leather in the R Design instead of the suede inserts, but figured they were all still black.

In any case, it is probably a rare combo…hmm…still want it.

Thing is on the “error,” it wasn’t even an error where it was priced as a different model, or incentives were combined incorrectly…they simply didn’t complete their market adjustment for the R Design group (that’s what they told me). So it was a very real price days, weeks, maybe months ago.

Looking up dealer invoice on the car, and taking into account $3,250 in Volvo incentives, the erroneous advertised price was about $600 over invoice (less incentives). Normal deal in pre-pandemic times I’d say (though incentives would have been higher). The deal the manager offered me was about $2,400 over invoice, or more or less splitting the difference between invoice and MSRP…about $5,100 off with the incentive.

They’ve already updated the online pricing to simply reflect MSRP less the $3,250 incentive, which is in line with all the other Volvos.

Like I said, the deal he offered me was decent, but just tempered by the overall experience. The main thing is I took the time to confirm the pricing with the salesperson before heading in.

Well, month end is upon us. Maybe shoot the salesperson an email or text and say something to the effect "if you need a final sale on the month, I'm still willing to honor the price you originally quoted me."

breld

qbrozen said:

breld said:

I was surprised by the blond interior too - I knew they finally put full leather in the R Design instead of the suede inserts, but figured they were all still black.

In any case, it is probably a rare combo…hmm…still want it.

Thing is on the “error,” it wasn’t even an error where it was priced as a different model, or incentives were combined incorrectly…they simply didn’t complete their market adjustment for the R Design group (that’s what they told me). So it was a very real price days, weeks, maybe months ago.

Looking up dealer invoice on the car, and taking into account $3,250 in Volvo incentives, the erroneous advertised price was about $600 over invoice (less incentives). Normal deal in pre-pandemic times I’d say (though incentives would have been higher). The deal the manager offered me was about $2,400 over invoice, or more or less splitting the difference between invoice and MSRP…about $5,100 off with the incentive.

They’ve already updated the online pricing to simply reflect MSRP less the $3,250 incentive, which is in line with all the other Volvos.

Like I said, the deal he offered me was decent, but just tempered by the overall experience. The main thing is I took the time to confirm the pricing with the salesperson before heading in.

Well, month end is upon us. Maybe shoot the salesperson an email or text and say something to the effect "if you need a final sale on the month, I'm still willing to honor the price you originally quoted me."

I like that approach.

I just need to make sure that is indeed the direction we want to go. For now, we've narrowed it down to the GLE or XC90. The GLE will be a bit more expensive, but not enough to drive the decision. Less power on the GLE 350, but a much more refreshed design, inside and out, on the Mercedes vs the end of cycle XC90.

My wife apparently has no interest in paying more for more power. She didn't see the point of it in the Genesis, definitely not for the GLE, and dislikes the design of the X5 enough to not consider it and its standard V6 (just kidding on the "V" part ).

Michaell

stickguy said:

You must be in that infamous Toyota dealer zone (southeast?). Heard horror stories about them.

He is.

(SouthEast Toyota region is FL, GA, SC, NC, AL)

breld

I did put my Leaf through the dealership's appraisal tool (though who knows if they will honor it)...comes back at $700 higher than the lease payoff, plus it would add about $1,800 savings in sales tax.

henryn

sda said:

I got really turned off by a Toyota dealer about two weeks before I purchased the 13 Accord. I was actually buying my first Toyota, a 13 Camry XLE that was the equivalent of the Accord EX I ended up buying. I was a little wary of the CVT but the Accord was offered with a lifetime engine/trans warranty. My job had relocated and I knew I had a long commute of 44 miles each way. I wanted something comfortable and economical. We had determined the trade value of our 09 Civic EX and and purchase price of the Camry. When they calculated the difference between the two cars it was almost $2k off. What? Mop and Glo and other extras, non-negotiable. That wasn't mentioned as we put the deal together. I walked. Bought the Accord two weeks later, no regrets. I have yet to own a Toyota.

When I first started seriously shopping for a minivan, I found one at a nearby Nissan dealership. One year old T&C, clean, low mileage, and not an ex-rental. There were very few available that weren't ex-rentals. I called, went over, did the test drive, was ready to sign on the dotted line and write a check. But wait, what's this? $1,800 for "dealer services"???? Things got rather heated at that point, quite confrontational. Several other customers got up and left. Many (most?) people are quite uncomfortable witnessing a heated confrontation.

I think when they play those kinds of games, there should be consequences. And I'm willing to look silly or outrageous in order to make them pay that cost.

sda

stickguy said:

You must be in that infamous Toyota dealer zone (southeast?). Heard horror stories about them.

Unfortunately you are correct. They play hard ball.

breld

The manager at Volvo just called me back to apologize again and offer another $500 off. I politely explained to him where I was coming from given I didn't just rely on the online pricing but confirmed it with the salesman prior to coming in. He said he didn't realize it was confirmed with them, and said he'd talk to his managers and call me back.

au1994

Got a VIN!

xwesx

au1994 said:

Got a VIN!

Congrats! Now, hurry up and wait.

28firefighter

It's poor form, if nothing else.

tifighter

Especially if he's been a repeat buyer.