Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

mjfloyd1

You are definitely crazy

venture

corvette said:

I would hazard a guess that over 90% of the first party total loss claims a carrier deals with are on something like a fifteen year old Sentra that is worth $5,000 on a good day, and might require deductions or additions of a few hundred bucks either way for equipment and condition. It sounds like they're not equipped to deal with a higher end vehicle.

I would say many of them are as you say. Also, it's possible that most people in that situation do not have the resources to wait, and must get transportation as soon as they can.

sda

My neighbor had a horrible experience earlier this year. A woman in an older Altima hit her head on in her new 21 Kia Seltos. The insurance settlement was horrible and left our neighbor over $5 k upside down. And like @mjfloyd1, it was the other driver’s fault. I thought one of the purposes of insurance was to make the claimant ‘whole’, not better, not WORSE.

imidazol97

sda said:

And like @mjfloyd1, it was the other driver’s fault. I thought one of the purposes of insurance was to make the claimant ‘whole’, not better, not WORSE.

I'm not sure how the legal world works on this, but it's my impression that as a victim of another's
negligence I can sue the other person for damages. I have not legal connection to their insurance
company or lack of insurance company. I just sue that person. If they have their insurance, they can
have them step in to cover what the perp's contract with their insurance company has the insurance
company responsible for covering to the victim. But if mjfloyd is not made whole, it's mjfloyd's choice
to sue the person for the total damages. I assume accepting an insurance company's check on behalf of the perp negates the ability to sue for the remainder of the damages.

I recall how an insurance company played me when a woman hit the rear of my 1970 Mustang. They're
professionals at manipulating victims to the benefit of the insurance company, just as car salesmen are professionals to making people pay more for vehicles at the dealer store.

Aren't there attorneys who specialize in such cases?

mjfloyd1

I’d be ok financially if I accept their offer but it is not a fair offer for the current situation. I paid 49k in 2019 and it is paid for. I should be paid what is a fair amount for the current date or day of accident. Less than auction is not fair. I’m lucky in that @qbrozen gave me Manheim data to support current auction values.

It will be a pain but it will be ok.

kyfdx

sda said:

My neighbor had a horrible experience earlier this year. A woman in an older Altima hit her head on in her new 21 Kia Seltos. The insurance settlement was horrible and left our neighbor over $5 k upside down. And like @mjfloyd1, it was the other driver’s fault. I thought one of the purposes of insurance was to make the claimant ‘whole’, not better, not WORSE.

One thing you have to remember: The payoff amount of the loan has no effect on the car's value. They won't give her more for her car, just because she owes 110% of it's value.

[Deleted User]

Congrats @benjaminh, sharp looking car and bonus for doing it without going into debt!!!

28firefighter

@kyfdx said:
One thing you have to remember: The payoff amount of the loan has no effect on the car's value. They won't give her more for her car, just because she owes 110% of it's value.

Sounds like she didn’t have gap.

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

@kyfdx said:

One thing you have to remember: The payoff amount of the loan has no effect on the car's value. They won't give her more for her car, just because she owes 110% of it's value.

Sounds like she didn’t have gap.

Most people never get GAP on a purchase. The only time I've ever had it is when it comes included on a lease.

Seems like most of her loss is the depreciation from driving it off the lot.

stickguy

Not thinking a Maverick is a likely option this year. Been a thing stuff on that, and apparently the pre order reservation process is a feeding frenzy. I suppose could do that, but going to be a while before anything is ever in stock. And forget about a test drive!

Maybe after Christmas it will settle down. Probably depends on if Ford has parts to actually make them.

But it seems like there really was actually strong demand for a reasonably compact PU. Toyota really should do something about that!

stickguy

This Audi saga, yet one more excellent reason to lease if you want to have nice stuff, and not keep it a really long time, or be out of warranty.

mjfloyd1

Until you look at the cost of leasing the Q7.

That’s the first totaled car in 40 years of driving (and 33 years of marriage).

The odds and cost lean towards buying but I understand that’s not for everyone.

henryn

stickguy said:

Not thinking a Maverick is a likely option this year. Been a thing stuff on that, and apparently the pre order reservation process is a feeding frenzy. I suppose could do that, but going to be a while before anything is ever in stock. And forget about a test drive!

Maybe after Christmas it will settle down. Probably depends on if Ford has parts to actually make them.

But it seems like there really was actually strong demand for a reasonably compact PU. Toyota really should do something about that!

I saw an article earlier this week where a Ford executive was quoted as saying it would take them 2 years to fill all of the orders they already have for Broncos. And that was not counting the chip shortage. No mention was made of the Maverick, but I would expect something similar.

I would never place an order for a car or truck without having at least a test drive first. No way, no how. Obviously a lot of others don't feel the same.

sda

kyfdx said:

28firefighter said:

@kyfdx said:

One thing you have to remember: The payoff amount of the loan has no effect on the car's value. They won't give her more for her car, just because she owes 110% of it's value.

Sounds like she didn’t have gap.

Most people never get GAP on a purchase. The only time I've ever had it is when it comes included on a lease.

Seems like most of her loss is the depreciation from driving it off the lot.

Correct on both. Depreciation and no GAP. It is a very unfortunate situation.

stickguy

You get to test drive when it comes in before taking it. If you hate it, they just slap an ADM sticker on it and put it on the lot.

henryn

stickguy said:

You get to test drive when it comes in before taking it. If you hate it, they just slap an ADM sticker on it and put it on the lot.

Yes, but most people aren't like @breld. They can't just summarily add another car to their fleet, or conversely, decide not to add. Most people need to know when they can expect to get their new car, not just "sometime in the next year or two". And if they are waiting and it finally arrives and they don't like it, start over again? That is not going to work for me, or most people I know.

I wonder how many of those unfilled Bronco orders are from people who are actually going to buy when they finally get the chance, versus people who are just "going along with a fad".

stickguy

Most long term orders won’t be buyers I bet.

Maverick, well, they are already ordering for at least 2 months out, maybe more, so must not be in a major hurry! People without time or money, should probably not be chasing after the hot new fad anyway.

At some point, there will likely be some cars to drive, but for now, that’s how it works at initial release.

roadburner

I found a gorgeous 2018 M3 Competition with a manual but it is about $10,000 over my budget. Know anybody that wants to buy a kidney?

breld

roadburner said:

I found a gorgeous 2018 M3 Competition with a manual but it is about $10,000 over my budget. Know anybody that wants to buy a kidney?

Budget, Schmudget.

ab348

stickguy said:

Not thinking a Maverick is a likely option this year. Been a thing stuff on that, and apparently the pre order reservation process is a feeding frenzy. I suppose could do that, but going to be a while before anything is ever in stock. And forget about a test drive!

Maybe after Christmas it will settle down. Probably depends on if Ford has parts to actually make them.

But it seems like there really was actually strong demand for a reasonably compact PU. Toyota really should do something about that!

How many of those orders actually have earnest money deposits attached to them? I understand many if not most dealers are just taking orders with no money involved at this stage.

kyfdx

I'd hate to see what my kidney might be worth.. It might pay for an oil change.

mjfloyd1

@roadburner said:
I found a gorgeous 2018 M3 Competition with a manual but it is about $10,000 over my budget. Know anybody that wants to buy a kidney?

I know several people willing if it is a tissue match…

au1994

mjfloyd1 said:

Until you look at the cost of leasing the Q7.

That’s the first totaled car in 40 years of driving (and 33 years of marriage).

The odds and cost lean towards buying but I understand that’s not for everyone.

They lease horribly if I remember

tjc78

@au1994 said:
They lease horribly if I remember

What large premium SUV doesn’t?

stickguy

In theory a total should get you out whole. I’d worry more about a $25k repair slaughtering your value.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

Not thinking a Maverick is a likely option this year....

What about a Genesis G70? I think it leases for about $420 a month (with just fees and taxes down) with conquest incentive. At c. 184 inches long it's about 10 inches shorter than a 2021 Acura TLX.

https://www.genesisoflouisville.com/inventory/new-2021-genesis-g70-2-0t-all-wheel-drive-4d-sedan-kmtg34laxmu075242/

stickguy

I never really cared all that much for my son's G70. but that one is nice looking!

benjaminh

stickguy said:

I never really cared all that much for my son's G70. but that one is nice looking!

What don't you like about it? I imagine a G70 is fun to drive + lots of luxury.

stickguy

he had the 3.3. Too low, did not care for the seats all that much, and a bit rough. Didn't find it all that comfortable. BasicallyI just didn't care for it. some cars you like, so you don't! I found the TLX (even with 130 fewer HP) to be nicer to drive.

xwesx

stickguy said:

he had the 3.3. Too low, did not care for the seats all that much, and a bit rough. Didn't find it all that comfortable. BasicallyI just didn't care for it. some cars you like, so you don't! I found the TLX (even with 130 fewer HP) to be nicer to drive.

Perhaps a case of BTDT (or, at least a family member has!).

tifighter

breld said:

roadburner said:

I found a gorgeous 2018 M3 Competition with a manual but it is about $10,000 over my budget. Know anybody that wants to buy a kidney?

Budget, Schmudget.

But you're actually kinda right. If you are a buyer that is, ahem, picky, you might wait forever for all of the stars to align. When you could have spent that time (in some cases, years) enjoying it instead.

I know someone who overcame a major health issue, later bought his dream car. Did he overpay? IDK, but he doesn't care one freaking bit...

mjfloyd1

New Q7 got picked up and will be here early evening.

tjc78

@benjaminh said:
What about a Genesis G70? I think it leases for about $420 a month (with just fees and taxes down) with conquest incentive. At c. 184 inches long it's about 10 inches shorter than a 2021 Acura TLX.

https://www.genesisoflouisville.com/inventory/new-2021-genesis-g70-2-0t-all-wheel-drive-4d-sedan-kmtg34laxmu075242/

So an effective $500 on a 43K MSRP? Meh.

28firefighter

@tifighter said:
But you're actually kinda right. If you are a buyer that is, ahem, picky, you might wait forever for all of the stars to align. When you could have spent that time (in some cases, years) enjoying it instead.

I know someone who overcame a major health issue, later bought his dream car. Did he overpay? IDK, but he doesn't care one freaking bit...

There is 100% a middle ground. But I generally agree.

fintail

Not a chronic car buyer, but my brother just picked something up, and I thought some might like it. I will preface it with he is unlike most people here - he likes cheap old cars, and he keeps them until they croak. He'll probably never have a new car, and he's fine with that. He likes basic, and he'd never finance.

For years he drove a red 83 Toyota pickup that he loved, but it met its fate on an icy road. He couldn't find a similar replacement, so he bought a basic 90s S-10 that had been fleet-owned for a decade, then bought by an employee of the company and similarly maintained. It's at about 250K now and getting tired, so he's been wanting to replace it. He accumulated some money, and the stars aligned. He found this - 2002 Tacoma PreRunner SR5 TRD (it was an option package then, upgraded suspension perhaps). 120K, very clean, AC works, original stereo, etc. It's an automatic, which wasn't his perfect spec, but he is OK with it. Apparent local car (I don't have all of the details), no frame issues, very clean. He paid 10K even for it - apparently the owner was offered $8500 from a dealer, but he wanted to try for more. My brother is quite happy, I think in the market these days and how these things always bring good money, he did OK. It's kind of the 20 years newer version of his old red truck:

Michaell

fintail said:

Not a chronic car buyer, but my brother just picked something up, and I thought some might like it. I will preface it with he is unlike most people here - he likes cheap old cars, and he keeps them until they croak. He'll probably never have a new car, and he's fine with that. He likes basic, and he'd never finance.

For years he drove a red 83 Toyota pickup that he loved, but it met its fate on an icy road. He couldn't find a similar replacement, so he bought a basic 90s S-10 that had been fleet-owned for a decade, then bought by an employee of the company and similarly maintained. It's at about 250K now and getting tired, so he's been wanting to replace it. He accumulated some money, and the stars aligned. He found this - 2002 Tacoma PreRunner SR5 TRD (it was an option package then, upgraded suspension perhaps). 120K, very clean, AC works, original stereo, etc. It's an automatic, which wasn't his perfect spec, but he is OK with it. Apparent local car (I don't have all of the details), no frame issues, very clean. He paid 10K even for it - apparently the owner was offered $8500 from a dealer, but he wanted to try for more. My brother is quite happy, I think in the market these days and how these things always bring good money, he did OK. It's kind of the 20 years newer version of his old red truck:

That's sharp!

I know the PreRunners were quite popular in SoCal, where 4WD wasn't always necessary.

mjfloyd1

@kyfdx said:
I'd hate to see what my kidney might be worth.. It might pay for an oil change.

If you go to the right place, you’d be surprised how much it is worth. Then You are banking on your other kidney not having any issues…

fintail

Ideally he wanted a 4x4 extended cab, but those with twice the miles can hit 15K easily. His budget was 15K, for 5K less and something as nice as this, he couldn't say no. He lives in a coastal area, so snow isn't usually worry. He bought a new set of tires today, as the ones on it in the pic were apparently a little rotten. Other than that, apparently it needs nothing - he wants some kind of caps for the bedliner at the edge of the bed, as it is a little marked up there, but that's a small thing. In this world, he could probably drive it for 5 years and get his money back.

Michaell said:

fintail said:

Not a chronic car buyer, but my brother just picked something up, and I thought some might like it. I will preface it with he is unlike most people here - he likes cheap old cars, and he keeps them until they croak. He'll probably never have a new car, and he's fine with that. He likes basic, and he'd never finance.

For years he drove a red 83 Toyota pickup that he loved, but it met its fate on an icy road. He couldn't find a similar replacement, so he bought a basic 90s S-10 that had been fleet-owned for a decade, then bought by an employee of the company and similarly maintained. It's at about 250K now and getting tired, so he's been wanting to replace it. He accumulated some money, and the stars aligned. He found this - 2002 Tacoma PreRunner SR5 TRD (it was an option package then, upgraded suspension perhaps). 120K, very clean, AC works, original stereo, etc. It's an automatic, which wasn't his perfect spec, but he is OK with it. Apparent local car (I don't have all of the details), no frame issues, very clean. He paid 10K even for it - apparently the owner was offered $8500 from a dealer, but he wanted to try for more. My brother is quite happy, I think in the market these days and how these things always bring good money, he did OK. It's kind of the 20 years newer version of his old red truck:

That's sharp!

I know the PreRunners were quite popular in SoCal, where 4WD wasn't always necessary.

tifighter

I actually liked this one-
BaT 650i.

henryn

Michaell said:

fintail said:

Not a chronic car buyer, but my brother just picked something up, and I thought some might like it. I will preface it with he is unlike most people here - he likes cheap old cars, and he keeps them until they croak. He'll probably never have a new car, and he's fine with that. He likes basic, and he'd never finance.

For years he drove a red 83 Toyota pickup that he loved, but it met its fate on an icy road. He couldn't find a similar replacement, so he bought a basic 90s S-10 that had been fleet-owned for a decade, then bought by an employee of the company and similarly maintained. It's at about 250K now and getting tired, so he's been wanting to replace it. He accumulated some money, and the stars aligned. He found this - 2002 Tacoma PreRunner SR5 TRD (it was an option package then, upgraded suspension perhaps). 120K, very clean, AC works, original stereo, etc. It's an automatic, which wasn't his perfect spec, but he is OK with it. Apparent local car (I don't have all of the details), no frame issues, very clean. He paid 10K even for it - apparently the owner was offered $8500 from a dealer, but he wanted to try for more. My brother is quite happy, I think in the market these days and how these things always bring good money, he did OK. It's kind of the 20 years newer version of his old red truck:

That's sharp!

I know the PreRunners were quite popular in SoCal, where 4WD wasn't always necessary.

A friend of mine, a woman slightly older than me, owns a 1995 Toyota Tacoma extended cab. She bought it about 3 years ago from her neighbor, a woman who got too old to drive. It had less than 60k miles when she bought it. I had my neighbor, the handy man / shade tree mechanic go over it. He did a complete tune up, flushed the radiator, and buffed out the paint. When he got through with it, the paint was shiny again. Not like a new one, but definitely not like a 20 year old truck. They apparently put good paint on those old Tacomas.

xwesx

fintail said:

Nice! I think that's the best generation of the Tacoma: Right size, good, clean design, and still fairly simple (although with far better road manners than its predecessors).

I nearly bought one that is identical to that except was manual back in 2015 when I picked up the 2008 Forester. Unfortunately, it was gone before I was able to get to it (well, someone flew in from Anchorage to get it, so the seller didn't want to sell it out from under the guy who was already on his way).

fintail

Speaking of simple, this truck has manual windows (but a stock CD player). I think this era had frame rust issues, but not so much a worry in the PNW. It doesn't look like a 19 year old vehicle to me, but it has been kept clean.

He just texted me - he had it looked over as he didn't do any kind of PPI, he just jumped on it after a test drive. Clean bill of health. I don't know if the 2.7 has any big issues, but I'd expect it to be at least a 250K unit like most Toyota 4 cyls.

xwesx said:

fintail said:

Nice! I think that's the best generation of the Tacoma: Right size, good, clean design, and still fairly simple (although with far better road manners than its predecessors).

I nearly bought one that is identical to that except was manual back in 2015 when I picked up the 2008 Forester. Unfortunately, it was gone before I was able to get to it (well, someone flew in from Anchorage to get it, so the seller didn't want to sell it out from under the guy who was already on his way).

stickguy

nice truck. I would love one of those with a manual. Assuming the frame was verified solid (or replaced). Scary getting one of them out of the NorthEast.

stickguy

tjc78 said:

@benjaminh said:

What about a Genesis G70? I think it leases for about $420 a month (with just fees and taxes down) with conquest incentive. At c. 184 inches long it's about 10 inches shorter than a 2021 Acura TLX.

https://www.genesisoflouisville.com/inventory/new-2021-genesis-g70-2-0t-all-wheel-drive-4d-sedan-kmtg34laxmu075242/

So an effective $500 on a 43K MSRP? Meh.

that seems to be the new normal. Just doing my usual Rodo browsing, seems that most stuff is up 10-20%. Though it varies considerably based on what exists on the lots!

I checked a Kona lately. SEL AWD. I think sticker was ~$29,000. 36/10 was $340 DAS/month. a year back or pre covid I think that was more like $290-$300.

some stuff that must be in shorter supply was really high. $490 Tucsons, $600 Rangers, stuff like that. I think the TLX was still pretty good.

basically, if you want a car now, and you want a cheap deal, better pick something that nobody actually wants!

benjaminh

Are there any rodo deals on the leftover 2021 G70s? The new 2022 G70s do look a bit better imho.

oldfarmer50

sda said:

My neighbor had a horrible experience earlier this year. A woman in an older Altima hit her head on in her new 21 Kia Seltos. The insurance settlement was horrible and left our neighbor over $5 k upside down. And like @mjfloyd1, it was the other driver’s fault. I thought one of the purposes of insurance was to make the claimant ‘whole’, not better, not WORSE.

In that event wouldn’t it be possible to sue the at fault party for the difference. Fortunately I have no experience with getting totaled.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Not thinking a Maverick is a likely option this year. Been a thing stuff on that, and apparently the pre order reservation process is a feeding frenzy. I suppose could do that, but going to be a while before anything is ever in stock. And forget about a test drive!

Maybe after Christmas it will settle down. Probably depends on if Ford has parts to actually make them.

But it seems like there really was actually strong demand for a reasonably compact PU. Toyota really should do something about that!

I see Ford is really pushing the idea of pre-ordering a car and getting it just the way you want. I wonder if this is a way of locking in a sale and keeping you on the hook for months while this chip shortage works itself out. In the past custom order was resisted by dealers as a fate worse than death.

Pretty clever marketing if that’s what they’re up to.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

I found a gorgeous 2018 M3 Competition with a manual but it is about $10,000 over my budget. Know anybody that wants to buy a kidney?

I’d need to take it for a test drive first.

stickguy

benjaminh said:

Are there any rodo deals on the leftover 2021 G70s? The new 2022 G70s do look a bit better imho.

not unless you consider $550 for a 2.0T or $650-$700 on a 3.3t good.

2022s might be a better deal now. but similar prices.

stickguy

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

Not thinking a Maverick is a likely option this year. Been a thing stuff on that, and apparently the pre order reservation process is a feeding frenzy. I suppose could do that, but going to be a while before anything is ever in stock. And forget about a test drive!

Maybe after Christmas it will settle down. Probably depends on if Ford has parts to actually make them.

But it seems like there really was actually strong demand for a reasonably compact PU. Toyota really should do something about that!

I see Ford is really pushing the idea of pre-ordering a car and getting it just the way you want. I wonder if this is a way of locking in a sale and keeping you on the hook for months while this chip shortage works itself out. In the past custom order was resisted by dealers as a fate worse than death.

Pretty clever marketing if that’s what they’re up to.

Interesting what they are doing now. Dealers can't order any inventory for stock now. But they have to order every car based on the reservation tool. Buyers have to use that online also. You can't walk in to a dealer and order one there either. At least it gets buyers excited and able to pick exactly what they want, and hooked onto "their" car.

at some point I am sure it will go back to normal.