Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

benjaminh

stickguy said:

I did figure out the sneaky trick Ford pulled. price it cheap for FWD, and wildly overcharge for AWD figuring that most people that wanted the bigger engine would pony up for the steep upcharge to add that.

Too bad they did not offer AWD with the hybrid. That would be a very interesting combo.

c. $30k for a Maverick XLT with the 2.0, AWD, and the Luxury pkg still seems like a good deal to me.

But it's not surprising that it doesn't lease well. If you divide the 3300 das into the monthly it comes to about $473.

mjfloyd1

@breld said:
@roadburner…you’ve waited this long, and you have connections at BMW dealerships. Why not just place an order for a new M240? (Although looks like they are X-drives only at intro).

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36933903/2022-bmw-2-series-coupe-specs-revealed/

No manual tranny (I’m old enough that I remember when a tranny was a car part )

Sandman6472

Those wheels really improve the looks of that F-150, good job!! Not a truck guy but it looks very cool with the new alloys. The longer lug nuts aren't noticeable at all and doubt anyone who sees it will even notice it. If you didn't mention it, never would've noticed it to be honest.

stickguy

$30K is a good deal for that configuration. I think I got it at about 32k the way I would get it, with a tonnau cover and moonroof. Getting a Ranger comparable is about 40K (no moonroof).

not surprised the lease is not going to be great initially. Not that much leases well now.

mjfloyd1

Working on 4xe #2…

Sandman6472

Found a fresh leak on the front of the A3 yesterday so it's going to the mechanic on Monday morning for a diagnosis/repair at this point. Has only 62.5K on the clock and besides needing a couple new tires, vehicle works great. Figure we caught this new leak early enough. Looks to be a brownish leak instead of a red one so figure it's engine oil but we'll find out for sure come Monday afternoon. Come December, both vehicles will be 7 years old and I know for sure she wants to keep hers another couple of years.
We discussed leasing earlier and am trying to get her to consider a lease for me next time since I drive so little now. I know that I'm not going to get another German vehicle at this point unless I fall in love with the new GTI. The new Taos is just going to be too long for my side of the garage so think it's off the list. Saw another Chevy Bolt today and did like the size and the idea of an electric vehicle is interesting if I can get it out the door for around $28K, just not sure if there will be a federal rebate for folks that buy one new. Plus I had read that Chevy was talking about paying to have one's garage retro-fitted with the appropriate charger so it won't need all night to charge. As long as it has a range of at least 300 miles, I'm good.
Then, all we need to see is the new Corolla Cross and go from there. As long as it will fit on my side, think I could be happy with it. The CH-R is also something I know would fit size wise, just would need to deal with that rear blind spot. Haven't driven a Honda HR-V but have heard that it's pretty under powered with it's current power plant though I do like the looks and size of it. Definitely time for this chip shortage to end and definitely want to get a 2022 model, no 2021.
Lots to look forward to these next few months and I'm genuinely excited for the search to begin!

corvette

nyccarguy said:

I just ordered a new set of tires for my Tacoma. I went with a set of Michelin Defender LTX M/S. They were more expensive than the stock Toyo Open Country, but my Dad has them on his Yukon and has been impressed with them thus far. By purchasing tires, I just cemented my decision to extend my Tacoma's lease an additional 6 months.

Nice! Can't go wrong with Michelins. I think the Tundra's OEM tires should make it through the 24 or 30 month lease term, but I'm under a 1,000 mile per month average at this point.

corvette

@henryn I love the wheels, but I don't think I could deal with those narrow steps. The ones on the Tundra cover the full length of the doors and are handy for cleaning windows, etc.

corvette

stickguy said:

Ford is going to sell a boatload of these if they don't (as they tend to do) botch the roll-out.

Should we make popcorn and place bets for the number of recalls and whether there will be a stop sale order?

I'm looking at the Maverick site yet again, and I think the two toned wheels on some of the Lariats look awful. Also, the XL would be really well equipped, if it weren't lacking cruise control.

stickguy

that guy who's name we can't mention cited a report today (UBS?) that the chip issue was resolving. Did not catch it all but seemed to say that at least the orders were in and supply would start catching up shortly. That would certainly help the old shopping situation!

stickguy

Sandy, I really need to make a car dimension spreadsheet for you, since at this point I think I have looked all these up at least twice!

stickguy

man, if I had to buy tires on a lease it would really steam my clams. My cold, cheap, puritanical heart would break. That is one of the reasons to lease IMO. So no need to do anything more than a couple of oil changes to it.

henryn

My thanks to everyone for the kind words about the new wheels.

Sandman6472 said:

Found a fresh leak on the front of the A3 yesterday so it's going to the mechanic on Monday morning for a diagnosis/repair at this point. Has only 62.5K on the clock and besides needing a couple new tires, vehicle works great. Figure we caught this new leak early enough. Looks to be a brownish leak instead of a red one so figure it's engine oil but we'll find out for sure come Monday afternoon. Come December, both vehicles will be 7 years old and I know for sure she wants to keep hers another couple of years.
We discussed leasing earlier and am trying to get her to consider a lease for me next time since I drive so little now. I know that I'm not going to get another German vehicle at this point unless I fall in love with the new GTI. The new Taos is just going to be too long for my side of the garage so think it's off the list. Saw another Chevy Bolt today and did like the size and the idea of an electric vehicle is interesting if I can get it out the door for around $28K, just not sure if there will be a federal rebate for folks that buy one new. Plus I had read that Chevy was talking about paying to have one's garage retro-fitted with the appropriate charger so it won't need all night to charge. As long as it has a range of at least 300 miles, I'm good.
Then, all we need to see is the new Corolla Cross and go from there. As long as it will fit on my side, think I could be happy with it. The CH-R is also something I know would fit size wise, just would need to deal with that rear blind spot. Haven't driven a Honda HR-V but have heard that it's pretty under powered with it's current power plant though I do like the looks and size of it. Definitely time for this chip shortage to end and definitely want to get a 2022 model, no 2021.
Lots to look forward to these next few months and I'm genuinely excited for the search to begin!

7 years? Really? It sure doesn't seem like it was that long ago. I guess they were right when they said as you get older, the days get longer and the years get shorter.

stickguy

corvette said:

stickguy said:

Ford is going to sell a boatload of these if they don't (as they tend to do) botch the roll-out.

Should we make popcorn and place bets for the number of recalls and whether there will be a stop sale order?

I'm looking at the Maverick site yet again, and I think the wheels on the Lariat look awful.

that is the biggest thing keeping me from seriously considering it. At the price point, I would rather just buy it, but being a fresh design from Ford, it screams to lease.

henryn

corvette said:

@henryn I love the wheels, but I don't think I could deal with those narrow steps. The ones on the Tundra cover the full length of the doors and are handy for cleaning windows, etc.

Thanks for the kind words on the wheels. Those steps came with the truck, and I never use them. The truck is the right height for me to just slide onto the seat. I'm thinking seriously about taking off the steps, as they are in the way when I slide underneath to change the oil or drop the transmission pan or whatever.

henryn

28firefighter said:

@henryn said:

Let’s do the numbers here. For a Maverick XL, with the 2.0L engine and the towing package, you wind up at $23,435 MSRP. If you can get 4% off that, the discount would be $937. If the other dealer sells at MSRP (no discount), but will ship for free, that gives him $937 to spend on the shipping.

The best of both worlds would be to find a dealer local to you who would give you the $900 discount off of MSRP. Nice dream.

What is invoice? Take invoice minus 4% and that’s the deal I found.

There doesn't seem to be enough difference between invoice and MSRP for anyone to get worked up about it. Which is pretty much what I assumed was going to be the case.

roadburner

breld said:

@roadburner…you’ve waited this long, and you have connections at BMW dealerships. Why not just place an order for a new M240? (Although looks like they are X-drives only at intro).

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36933903/2022-bmw-2-series-coupe-specs-revealed/

I still have a BMW press account so I received an email about the new 2 Series. I'm seriously considering it- I just have to wait for the RWD M240i. I'm hoping moonroof deletion is still available. My wife looked at the press kit and we both decided that Thundernight Metallic is the color of choice.

stickguy

wow. I don't think I ever saw a spread that small before. even Honda was about $1,000 in the past and that was one of the lower brands.

fintail

I agree, as long as there aren't stipulations about what becomes of the stuff in the distant future

Younger generations just don't collect most of that stuff anymore. But as she's preparing to move into another house, she's packing it up and I think enjoying the work, maybe discovering things she's forgotten. It might stem the tide of new arrivals.

henryn said:

fintail said:

My sister and I tell our mom, who has a multitude of collections, that she needs to start thinning the herd, as if we are tasked with a cleanout, it will be a big and cheap yard sale. This is not met with a smile. She gets some security from all of the trinkets, and she also might realize collectibles tastes have changed, and hot things from 30 years ago aren't as hot now.

If she gets "some security from all of the trinkets", then I would advise leaving the situation alone. It's not hurting anything, and if it makes her feel better, then why not?

stickguy

had a bad experience today. Wife had a doctor's appointment in the afternoon so had to take "her" car. I went into the garage for something, and it was empty of vehicles (as was the driveway. I think I had a minor panic attack!

I know I really don't need it, and not laying out the money is nice, but darn it is getting to be time to have my own car again. Never thought I was going to make it a full year!

28firefighter

@stickguy said:
wow. I don't think I ever saw a spread that small before. even Honda was about $1,000 in the past and that was one of the lower brands.

I believe this is the direction things are going. The dealer lobby is too powerful to be easily rid of in favor of manufacturer to direct sales, so instead, they’ll just align MSRP with invoice and do away with volume bonuses. Everyone pays the same price everywhere.

stickguy

fine by me. Just make it a reasonable price and good value, on a car I like, and I don't care how they work it out with the dealer. Having fantasy MSRP stickers just so they could advertise huge discounts is silly.

qbrozen

@stickguy said:
wow. I don't think I ever saw a spread that small before. even Honda was about $1,000 in the past and that was one of the lower brands.

IIRC, back when I got my Honda Fit, the spread was something like $400.

stickguy

I guess I never bought a Honda that cheap. Plus it has been a while since I even looked at invoice (I think when shopping Subarus when I had a VIP code that gave a fixed price a certain % below invoice).

corvette

28firefighter said:

Everyone pays the same price everywhere.

True, if you ignore the $795 doc fees some of the dealers in my area tack on...

28firefighter

@corvette said:
True, if you ignore the $795 doc fees some of the dealers in my area tack on...

Yes. But if every dealer in the state charges the same price, the same fees, etc the competitive edge around pricing goes away and instead focuses on the merits of the car and the buying experience.

corvette

28firefighter said:

Yes. But if every dealer in the state charges the same price, the same fees, etc the competitive edge around pricing goes away and instead focuses on the merits of the car and the buying experience.

They are capped at $199 if I drive 10-15 miles to go to the neighboring state. There is also a hefty and oppressive $2.15 toll if I take the interstate into the other state.

nyccarguy

@mjfloyd1 said:
Working on 4xe #2…

A flip?

xwesx

nyccarguy said:

A flip?

Let's hope not; Wranglers are said to be more prone to rollovers, and after the miserable insurance experience that he's having with the Q7....

28firefighter

@corvette said:
They are capped at $199 if I drive 10-15 miles to go to the neighboring state. There is also a hefty and oppressive $2.15 toll if I take the interstate into the other state.

I think you understand the point I’m making. It’s a slow burn that, I think, is moving towards eliminating the retail model from dealers.

Michaell

28firefighter said:

@corvette said:

They are capped at $199 if I drive 10-15 miles to go to the neighboring state. There is also a hefty and oppressive $2.15 toll if I take the interstate into the other state.

I think you understand the point I’m making. It’s a slow burn that, I think, is moving towards eliminating the retail model from dealers.

I know Ford tried some factory owned stores in Utah, I think. Didn't last long, but was in the early days of the internet.

Be interesting if any of the big brands use the chip shortage as the spark to upend their sales model - sort of like Ford is doing with the factory orders to lock in the sale.

But, dealer associations have pretty powerful friends in the state legislatures. Gonna be tough to erase that.

28firefighter

@Michaell said:
I know Ford tried some factory owned stores in Utah, I think. Didn't last long, but was in the early days of the internet.

Be interesting if any of the big brands use the chip shortage as the spark to upend their sales model - sort of like Ford is doing with the factory orders to lock in the sale.

But, dealer associations have pretty powerful friends in the state legislatures. Gonna be tough to erase that.

Agree. I think you’ll start seeing major step change closer to when new ICE vehicle sales are phased out in 2030ish.

oldfarmer50

28firefighter said:

For those interested in the Maverick, apparently there is a dealer in PA (dunno which) that is offering 4% below invoice on 2022 Maverick orders.

I still say this is a clever marketing ploy on the part of Ford. Lock in buyers for months while you wait for the chip shortage to resolve itself. 4% may seem like a lot now but what kind of deal will it be in, say December, when cars start flooding back into the market?

I was watching a local news interview with a Toyota dealer who predicted good supply by the end of the year. What effect will it have on market prices if those thousands of vehicles sitting in parking lots suddenly get the chips they need and are shipped to dealers?

explorerx4

Ford already had a chip problem even before sales dropped last spring.
They got them from a factory in Japan which had a fire and had to shut down for quite a while.
The factory is back on line now and the chips are being allocated to complete F Series trucks.

oldfarmer50

28firefighter said:

@corvette said:

True, if you ignore the $795 doc fees some of the dealers in my area tack on...

Yes. But if every dealer in the state charges the same price, the same fees, etc the competitive edge around pricing goes away and instead focuses on the merits of the car and the buying experience.

Wouldn’t that require some federal intervention as the max doc fee in my state is $75? There are $999 doc fees at some Florida dealers. No matter what, the dealers will find some way to fool with the numbers.

qbrozen

@mjfloyd1 said:
Working on 4xe #2…

The wife would never abide by that. One risk at a time is all I am permitted.

And it is starting to seem like by the time I get this first one, orders may be dried up.

sda

In our area, in addition to the dealer fee of $599-899, a lot of dealers are tacking on a price addendum of “Market adjustment” or “Inventory adjustment” of $1500-4000 plus the mop and glow extras. I saw that at the local Honda dealer which had the highest mark up and VW which was somewhat less. I wonder if they back off those mark ups when a purchase deal is proposed. I do understand MSRP is the bottom line at some dealers.

mjfloyd1

@xwesx said:
Let's hope not; Wranglers are said to be more prone to rollovers, and after the miserable insurance experience that he's having with the Q7....

Wouldn’t the 4xe be less prone to a rollover with the 600-800 pound ballast battery underneath it?

mjfloyd1

@qbrozen said:

@mjfloyd1 said:
Working on 4xe #2…

The wife would never abide by that. One risk at a time is all I am permitted.

And it is starting to seem like by the time I get this first one, orders may be dried up.

I’m only getting it with the thought that I’ll drive a Jeep. I feel less guilty putting miles on a Jeep vs the X3m40i

We will see though. Everything is negotiable- if the price for the 4xe is right, it could go bye bye.

@28firefighter - I’d flip your current one and order a new one from Nampa Idaho.

nyccarguy

mjfloyd1 said:

@qbrozen said:

@mjfloyd1 said:

Working on 4xe #2…

The wife would never abide by that. One risk at a time is all I am permitted.

And it is starting to seem like by the time I get this first one, orders may be dried up.

I’m only getting it with the thought that I’ll drive a Jeep. I feel less guilty putting miles on a Jeep vs the X3m40i

We will see though. Everything is negotiable- if the price for the 4xe is right, it could go bye bye.

@28firefighter - I’d flip your current one and order a new one from Nampa Idaho.

From the same dealer group/dealer you bought your Q7 from?

mjfloyd1

Q7 was Iowa - Carousel Audi

Nampa Idaho is Peterson CDJR

mjfloyd1

I seem to have 1000 moving parts. If daughter #2 wants second 4xe, it will stay and CRV will go. The Jeeps will be optioned identically - just different exterior colors.

kyfdx

Small scrape on the bumper of my wife's X3. Found it after parking in a downtown garage. On the plastic cover, and the black plastic wheel opening molding.

She insists we fix it..

any guesses on the estimate?

roadburner

$800

corvette

Based on having the bumper cover of the G37 replaced, plus some additional because it's a BMW:
$800 to fill and paint existing bumper and replace molding (jinx, @roadburner !)
$1,900 if it needs a new bumper cover.

henryn

I know Ford tried some factory owned stores in Utah, I think. Didn't last long, but was in the early days of the internet.

This is behind a paywall, but you can see the headline and the date.

May 12, 1997, “Ford Seeks Buyout of All Indianapolis Dealerships”

https://www.autonews.com/article/19970512/ANA/705120711/ford-seeks-buyout-of-all-indianapolis-dealerships

dealer associations have pretty powerful friends in the state legislatures. Gonna be tough to erase that.

There were quite a few stories written about that when Tesla first burst onto the scene. One of the biggest problems Elon Musk faced was trying to get around those laws.

I think you understand the point I’m making. It’s a slow burn that, I think, is moving towards eliminating the retail model from dealers.

I was quite surprised by the success of Carmax. And believe me, they have been very successful here in this part of the country. People really like the low key, low pressure, fixed price model.

I think the addicts here in CCBA are the exact opposite of that. And yes, that includes me.

New car dealerships, for whatever reason, have not tried to emulate that success story.

stickguy

$20 for touch up paint. $0.00 for your labor.

Otherwise $750

kyfdx

You can’t see the scuffed part on the matte black molding from the pictures. That has to be replaced ($160, approx)

stickguy

The Maverick model is still just sales to the dealer. With buyers picking the dealer they prefer to use. Does keep inventory costs down! This only seems to make sense though for presages on new releases.

roadburner

My wife took the Clubman to run some errands and announced that she would rather keep the Mini and flip the X1. Fine by me. The 4xe remains a possibility, although I may just go with a 2 door Rubicon. Another possibility is a CPO V8 GC Trailhawk. If I was leasing I’d love a new Defender, but I’m keeping whatever I get for the long haul.