Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

henryn

corvette said:

stickguy said:

What is really the problem is they expect the dealers, who actually sell cars to people, to keep the people with orders up to date and most dealers are not interested in that.

The dealers should do a better job of communicating, but it's difficult for them to be transparent and honest in explaining Ford's byzantine allocation and order scheduling system. Plus, it's kind of the equivalent of what would be called an "unfunded mandate" in government or. your boss assigning you extra tasks without relieving you of others or commensurately increasing your compensation.

I have read several articles stating that new car dealers are making record profits, so you'll forgive me for not wasting any sympathy on them.

sda

I wonder if the recent spike in fuel pricing has dampened the truck and suv market. When I browsed the CarMax lot this morning it was truck and suv central. Other car lots seemed to be heavy with those too.

oldfarmer50

sda said:

Insane pricing.

While nothing surprises me on Wrangler prices any more that Honda is indeed insane. 87k miles?

I’ve been looking for a low mile old style Ranger but those price are just as insane.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=634974907&makeCodeList=FORD&modelCodeList=RANGER&city=Albany&state=NY&zip=12201&location=&searchRadius=200&endYear=2011&marketExtension=off&isNewSearch=false&showAccelerateBanner=false&sortBy=relevance&numRecords=25&firstRecord=50&dma=&listingTypes=USED&referrer=/cars-for-sale/ford/ranger/albany-ny-12201?dma=&searchRadius=200&location=&endYear=2011&marketExtension=off&isNewSearch=false&showAccelerateBanner=false&sortBy=relevance&numRecords=25&firstRecord=50&clickType=listing

tjc78

@henryn said:
I have read several articles stating that new car dealers are making record profits, so you'll forgive me for not wasting any sympathy on them.

Record profit percentage, yes… but I’d wager that overall profit dollars are down and certainly top line is way down too.

henryn

tjc78 said:

@henryn said:

I have read several articles stating that new car dealers are making record profits, so you'll forgive me for not wasting any sympathy on them.

Record profit percentage, yes… but I’d wager that overall profit dollars are down and certainly top line is way down too.

Surprisingly, that does not seem to be the case. Here is one article from about 5 months ago:

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/Group-1-maintains-strong-sales-profits-despite-16572084.php#:~:text=least another year.-,The Houston-based dealership group reported a $172.1 million profit,the third quarter of 2020.

Group 1 Automotive on Thursday said its earnings are still soaring despite a crippled auto supply chain that the company expects will endure for at least another year.

The Houston-based dealership group reported a $172.1 million profit in the quarter ended Sept. 30, compared with a $126.4 million profit during the same period last year. Revenue jumped 15 percent to $3.5 billion from $3 billion in the third quarter of 2020.

stickguy

makes sense there are more trucks and SUVs on the market, considering that is mostly what sells new!

tjc78

I’m really surprised at those numbers. I would love to see unit sales too. If unit sales are up or equal then that is very interesting since inventory is so low.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

I’m really surprised at those numbers. I would love to see unit sales too. If unit sales are up or equal then that is very interesting since inventory is so low.

Could be the service business is booming as people repair rather than replace. Service was always the big profit center.

corvette

@oldfarmer50 - that Ranger seems like a weird spec. 4.0 liter V6 (which I think was an optional upgrade) and CD player, power windows, locks, and mirrors, but no cruise control. Nice Weathertech mats but someone put Ditchfinder tires on it.

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

@oldfarmer50 - that Ranger seems like a weird spec. 4.0 liter V6 (which I think was an optional upgrade) and CD player, power windows, locks, and mirrors, but no cruise control. Nice Weathertech mats but someone put Ditchfinder tires on it.

The weirdest thing about it is the price, almost MSRP on an 11 year old truck. Cruise I could live without.

stickguy

tjc78 said:

I’m really surprised at those numbers. I would love to see unit sales too. If unit sales are up or equal then that is very interesting since inventory is so low.

entirely possible they sold 1/2 the units but at more than 2x the profit per.

so 100K sales with $2,000 profit = $200,000.000

50k sales with $4,500 profit = $225,000,000

and fewer sales so less overhead.

cdnpinhead

When we bought our house in Mesa in '80, it was my fourth house. It was a relatively small place (~1450 sf) and we were having it built new. When we signed up in July, the interest rate was 9.5%, but by the time we closed in October or November, the rate was up to 14%. It did quite a number on the payment. Today's interest rates will be a fond memory in five or ten years I think. Time will tell.

henryn

From the same article I quoted before:

Sales of new vehicles declined by 12 percent during the quarter compared with the same period in 2020, yet revenue held firm at $1.58 billion, demonstrating rising profit margins. Gross profits per unit increased by 92 percent to $4,773.

Group 1 sold 13 percent more used vehicles at higher profit margins, pushing sales income higher by 44 percent to $1.25 billion compared with $867 million during the same period last year. Gross profits per used car increased 23 percent to $2,279.

Not the sentence that I marked in boldface.

Gross profits per unit increased by 92 percent to $4,773.

stickguy

dang. The numbers I just pulled out of my rear were pretty close to reality.

mjfloyd1

@roadburner said:
I wish I could get a handle on M2 prices; I know they won't hold as steady as 1M prices but I'm beginning to think that they won't drop an appreciable amount before they hold steady and start to appreciate.

It always seems like when the refreshed or new body style comes out, the older models depreciate. Maybe different since first M2??? Who knows.

fintail

Roughly 70% resale on that Accord after 9 years and almost 90K miles, not bad.

Makes buying out the wagon an even easier decision.

sda said:

Insane pricing.

tjc78

@stickguy @henryn
Using those numbers it makes perfect sense. I couldn’t read the article it was behind a pay wall.

At any rate, maybe the dealers prefer it this way? Less stock to carry, and they can set the price rather than having to worry about being beat by $50 down the street.

I wonder what the manufacturers are doing with volume bonuses. We all know that dealers would give away a unit or two to hit bonus.

au1994

Good question on volume bonuses. I wonder how the dealer agreements are structured to handle that if the inventory isn’t available to sell?

I wonder if they have lost/laid off salespeople? If they were pure commission, they’ve left on their own. If they had a small draw/base, surely they would have had to let some of them go by now.

stickguy

I think staffs are smaller. But in theory with grosses being higher they should be making much more per sale. No minis.

Dealers are still selling quite a bit. It just never sits on the lot collecting dust.

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

I think staffs are smaller. But in theory with grosses being higher they should be making much more per sale. No minis.

Dealers are still selling quite a bit. It just never sits on the lot collecting dust.

It never bothered me buying a dusty car. I was going to take it home and wash and wax it anyway.

jmonroe

corvette

First sighting of a Maverick in the wild where I was able to snap a pic. Looks like a silver XL. It also appears to have either a dealer badge or a hybrid badge with something underneath. No visible pumpkin, so might be FWD. Sorry for any quality issues, it was on the other side of a major thoroughfare and I had to zoom in.

stickguy

I can't read the badge on the left. Definitely FWD> missing an AWD badge on the right. On the left it is either a dealer or hybrid badge. non-hybrid doesn't have anything on the back.

Sandman6472

Think that many will just keep what they got and fix what needs repairing for the short term. O know that's our plan going forward. Am so ready to purchase but am not going to pay a ridiculous "Adm fee" or one I saw the other day which blew me away..."Safety fee" with such ad ons as nitrogen for tires like $299. Was just outrageous and I for one, won't pay ridiculous fees. Luckily, I'm just a bit over 70K and the A3 is right at 68K, so we can both hold off another year or two at this point. If I do 50 miles/week, I'm good and she does almost 90, so we're both good. Just will have that much more to put down when the time does come. Lucky we both like our current rides so if we have to wait, not an issue.

oldfarmer50

I’m with you on that. I really have the car buying itch but can’t justify getting anything new or used at the inflated prices. I would certainly hate to be in a position where I HAD to buy something. As is, I’ll bide my time until something suitable comes along and risk being expelled from the chronic car board.

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

First sighting of a Maverick in the wild where I was able to snap a pic. Looks like a silver XL. It also appears to have either a dealer badge or a hybrid badge with something underneath. No visible pumpkin, so might be FWD. Sorry for any quality issues, it was on the other side of a major thoroughfare and I had to zoom in.

It’s funny, I don’t think I’ve seen any Mavericks around me. I’ve seen a number of Broncos and we even have a few in the fleet. Maybe if I get a chance to drive one it will change my mind.

stickguy

Once I bring mine up I’ll let you take a look!

qbrozen

This is so cool. Sure, it would be better with a manual, of course, but, even with the auto, this thing must giddy-up with that drivetrain.
https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3q5ObLb5/1996-mitsubishi-rvr-super-sports-gear

stickguy

Good luck as high bidder!

roadburner

This is a bit tempting; my wife _really _ likes it:
https://www.pinnacleford.com/vehicles/2019-bmw-m4-base-p129521a-wbs4y9c56kag67606

roadburner

stickguy

Gorgeous color combo. You should buy it.

roadburner

It’s also a BMW CPO; so it has a powertrain warranty until March of 2024. Full service history including the service that M cars get at 1,200 miles.

qbrozen

Pretty sweet. Did you get their actual asking price?

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

This is so cool. Sure, it would be better with a manual, of course, but, even with the auto, this thing must giddy-up with that drivetrain.
https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3q5ObLb5/1996-mitsubishi-rvr-super-sports-gear

Must be a fast car if it needs a pitot tube mounted on the left front corner of the hood?

jmonroe

28firefighter

beautiful car, @roadburner - love that color combo.

roadburner

@qbrozen said:
Pretty sweet. Did you get their actual asking price?

I’m in the process.

jmonroe1

roadburner said:

@qbrozen said:

Pretty sweet. Did you get their actual asking price?

I’m in the process.

Well, that’s better than being “out of the process”. Which will probably be the case when you get his price.

jmonroe

tjc78

Oh man … love the colors on that.

mjfloyd1

@roadburner said:

@qbrozen said:
Pretty sweet. Did you get their actual asking price?

I’m in the process.

I think that the real price is listed on the carfax

explorerx4

3 previous owners already? I see one is the current selling dealer, so really 2 previous owners.

mjfloyd1

Looks like a DCT transmission.

I can’t tell it it has a moonroof from the pictures

I hope you don’t have to get the “BOY173” license plate.

corvette

Does that include that dealer's "Premium Safety Package" including the soothing flashing third brake light, a $1,679 value, which they are willing to generously discount to $1,287?

roadburner

@mjfloyd1 said:
Looks like a DCT transmission.

I can’t tell it it has a moonroof from the pictures

I hope you don’t have to get the “BOY173” license plate.

It’s a Competition Package car, CF roof; it would get my BMW CCA personalized plate.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

Why can’t domestic cars come up with interiors like that?

henryn

I still haven't actually seen a Maverick. I'm beginning to think they don't actually exist, kinda like UFOs.

And I'm in complete agreement with Sandman and Oldfarmer, I'm going to sit tight for the time being. When the game is rigged against you, that is a very good time to not be playing.

tjc78

Chevy had a similar color in the Malibu.

I had it on our second Enclave too.

stickguy

Fairly close to my Maverick. Just sportier design!

explorerx4

@oldfarmer50,
You have to be willing to pay 66k for a soon to be 4 year old model.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

Chevy had a similar color in the Malibu.

I had it on our second Enclave too.

That looks like the inside of my old Lincoln.

tjc78

@oldfarmer50 said:
That looks like the inside of my old Lincoln.

Yeah Ford had that saddle color in the 90s before it was trendy.