Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

corvette

Kind of makes you understand Honda’s “pick a trim level, no options” philosophy, but that doesn’t seem to have trickled down into lower prices for a similarly equipped vehicle.

stickguy

few options makes a lot of sense when cars are coming from overseas and no customer (or actually dealer) ordering happening. Certainly simplifies manufacturing, just runs the risk of not giving customers what they want.

corvette

Another bone I have to pick is that is seems like Honda often seems to tie feature improvements to what is available or standard in the next better model rather than tying them to update cycles. E.g., "we have a new Civic but won't offer X feature because it's not available or standard on the current Accord."

mjfloyd1

Punch

Traded 2020 CR-V touring for a 2022 CR-V hybrid touring for the most ridiculous reason. 2020 did not have parking sensors and I had tried to order them for the last three months. No wiring loom was available due to supply chain issues. Also would have had to take off front and back bumpers to install them so I avoided either a lot of work or a lot of hassle going to Honda dealer for installation. Surprisingly the Honda dealer was cheaper than a body shop for this.

2022 CR-V hybrid touring has the parking sensors standard.

Got $2K more than I paid for 2020 and MSRP on 2022.

2020 was white with black leather

2022 is silver with light grey leather

venture

mjfloyd1 said:

Punch

Traded 2020 CR-V touring for a 2022 CR-V hybrid touring for the most ridiculous reason. 2020 did not have parking sensors and I had tried to order them for the last three months. No wiring loom was available due to supply chain issues. Also would have had to take off front and back bumpers to install them so I avoided either a lot of work or a lot of hassle going to Honda dealer for installation. Surprisingly the Honda dealer was cheaper than a body shop for this.

2022 CR-V hybrid touring has the parking sensors standard.

Got $2K more than I paid for 2020 and MSRP on 2022.

2020 was white with black leather

2022 is silver with light grey leather

It sounds like you did OK. Congrats.

nyccarguy

@mjfloyd1 - Congrats! Enjoy!

"most ridiculous reason" - We aren't ones to judge

venture

stickguy said:

I am no expert but did read that cars mostly use old fashioned chips, not the newer designs that phones, computers, etc. use. and that a lot of manufacturing is going toward those, so there is less capacity (and lower profit margins) left for car makers, and whoever else uses them. so either they have to support building more capacity (I think Ford is doing this with global foundries), or make the move to update chipsets.

I read the same thing. It seems when the auto manufacturers stopped buying the simple chips, the chip guys concentrated on selling the more modern chips that could do more. They are supposedly cheaper to make so they don't want to go back; and the auto people don't want to change.

qbrozen

I guess it is technically a "classic" but I'll never understand market blips like this one. And it isn't even done yet.

explorerx4

One thing I read about the 'old' chips is that they have a more robust design.
The new ones are designed for phones and computers which have a shorter lifespan.
These things are popping up like weeds.

au1994

qbrozen said:

I guess it is technically a "classic" but I'll never understand market blips like this one. And it isn't even done yet.

Its a super low mileage Land Cruiser. If it was on BaT it might hit 60k.

nyccarguy

I have been driving my Wrangler 4Xe around since I got it Thursday. I really like it. Overall I'm impressed with the ride comfort and suspension tuning. Today in was in the 20s when I left for work. It is the 1st time I haven't had the roof open. Over the weekend, I ran a lot of in town errands and rarely used any gas. The 25 miles of range really isn't a lot. It will definitely help as I'm sure I'll fill up a little less often. It is a great run around vehicle. Very easy to drive.

qbrozen

au1994 said:

qbrozen said:

I guess it is technically a "classic" but I'll never understand market blips like this one. And it isn't even done yet.

Its a super low mileage Land Cruiser. If it was on BaT it might hit 60k.

A 1996 Land Cruiser's original MSRP was $40k. Loaded up was high 40s. Watching a '90s commonplace SUV going for over original MSRP is just something I'm going to have a hell of a time getting used to.

sb55

Buying a used late model vehicle in this market doesn't seem worth it. I was toying with the idea of replacing the Silverado 1500 with a 2500 since we are taking a long camping trip and towing the Airstream out west next fall. I would like to get a cap and the extra payload would be nice. A local dealer had a 2020 Silverado 2500 with 50K miles on their lot. I test drove it to see if I could stand it. It was a little beat up and cost $4000.00 more than the original sticker price almost 3 years ago. If I do anything, new from a dealer who doesn't have an ADM seems like the way to go.

roadburner

@au1994 said:
Definitely have to cut the lead times down. I seem to remember my father ordering a couple of Oldsmobiles way back in the day and only waiting 6 weeks.

Agree that there have to be some offerings on the ground at all times. Even if lead time gets cut way back if you total your

car for instance I don't see being able to wait 8 weeks. No way I’d expect an insurance company to keep me in a rental for 6 months.

I’ll also note that in the current business model (pre-shortage) when I asked about ordering a model to my specs it was greeted with about as much enthusiasm as a prostate check by the sales person. They were much more interested in moving current inventory over the curb.

I wanted to buy a GTI in 2007, but the local VW dealers acted as if ordering a car was unbelievably complex.
When I worked at BMW, we could order anything from BMW Manufacturing in SC and it would be on the ground in 10-14 days. The only thing that would cause a delay would be any options from BMW Individual; that would add 90 days to the build.

corvette

@qbrozen said:
I guess it is technically a "classic" but I'll never understand market blips like this one. And it isn't even done yet.

Just think of what my “Iconic Prius” will be worth in a few years!

ab348

mjfloyd1 said:

Punch

Traded 2020 CR-V touring for a 2022 CR-V hybrid touring for the most ridiculous reason. 2020 did not have parking sensors and I had tried to order them for the last three months. No wiring loom was available due to supply chain issues. Also would have had to take off front and back bumpers to install them so I avoided either a lot of work or a lot of hassle going to Honda dealer for installation. Surprisingly the Honda dealer was cheaper than a body shop for this.

2022 CR-V hybrid touring has the parking sensors standard.

Got $2K more than I paid for 2020 and MSRP on 2022.

2020 was white with black leather

2022 is silver with light grey leather

Improvement on all fronts! Congrats. You got a reasonable deal (for these times) too. Post a picture when you have a chance, especially an interior shot.

henryn

sb55 said:

Buying a used late model vehicle in this market doesn't seem worth it. I was toying with the idea of replacing the Silverado 1500 with a 2500 since we are taking a long camping trip and towing the Airstream out west next fall. I would like to get a cap and the extra payload would be nice. A local dealer had a 2020 Silverado 2500 with 50K miles on their lot. I test drove it to see if I could stand it. It was a little beat up and cost $4000.00 more than the original sticker price almost 3 years ago. If I do anything, new from a dealer who doesn't have an ADM seems like the way to go.

I have not shopped Chevrolet trucks recently, but I have looked very closely at the full size Fords. There aren't any new ones (half ton or three-quarter ton) sitting around, but the dealers will order one at MSRP. One salesman that I know pretty well told me they are getting an average of $5k over MSRP for the new half tons that do show up infrequently. And $10k over for Super Duty trucks, and the high end half tons.

Two different Ford dealers promised me no mark ups of any kind, flat MSRP for any truck I ordered. But they were completely unwilling to make any kind of guarantees or even estimates as to how long it might take.

henryn

corvette said:

Kind of makes you understand Honda’s “pick a trim level, no options” philosophy, but that doesn’t seem to have trickled down into lower prices for a similarly equipped vehicle.

That can also cost you some sales. A few years back, I was on the verge of buying a new CR-V. But I wanted the options from the high end (EX-L), but without the sun roof which takes away head room. Eventually I changed my mind, and went in a different direction. I was in the show room, ready to buy, but ...

stickguy

they crunch a lot of numbers and must have figured out that overall, happier customers and more sales doing it there way. The relatively small number of outliers like you, are just incidental casualties.

mjfloyd1

ab348 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Punch

Traded 2020 CR-V touring for a 2022 CR-V hybrid touring for the most ridiculous reason. 2020 did not have parking sensors and I had tried to order them for the last three months. No wiring loom was available due to supply chain issues. Also would have had to take off front and back bumpers to install them so I avoided either a lot of work or a lot of hassle going to Honda dealer for installation. Surprisingly the Honda dealer was cheaper than a body shop for this.

2022 CR-V hybrid touring has the parking sensors standard.

Got $2K more than I paid for 2020 and MSRP on 2022.

2020 was white with black leather

2022 is silver with light grey leather

Improvement on all fronts! Congrats. You got a reasonable deal (for these times) too. Post a picture when you have a chance, especially an interior shot.

Dirty from the trip as it shipped from California. Somehow they only charged me $695 for over 2100 miles. Works for me.

Funny part is it was manufactured 1.5 hours from where I live. It has the 2.0 non turbo motor with two electric motors so 212 hp vs 190 on the 1.5 turbo plus better in town mpg.

Four parking sensors front and 4 in the back are verified present

stickguy

Sharp looking. But I am amused by needing front sensors on a CRV! Back sensors IMO serve no purpose when I have a BU camera.

au1994

Nice looking CR-V. I love the silver over gray. Those are great little vehicles, we considered one when we got the Crosstrek. There’s a reason Honda sells a ton of them.

mjfloyd1

stickguy said:

Sharp looking. But I am amused by needing front sensors on a CRV! Back sensors IMO serve no purpose when I have a BU camera.

Sixteen year old driver…

carnaught

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

Sharp looking. But I am amused by needing front sensors on a CRV! Back sensors IMO serve no purpose when I have a BU camera.

Sixteen year old driver…

@mjfloyd1, in today’s world, well-played…. You moved up 2 model years, got a hybrid with improved mileage and got more options and a better interior color. BTW, does yours also have a surround camera?

explorerx4

The 2013 Escape one of the kids drives has front sensors for the automatic parking feature.

stickguy

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

Sharp looking. But I am amused by needing front sensors on a CRV! Back sensors IMO serve no purpose when I have a BU camera.

Sixteen year old driver…

1999 Taurus.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

Sharp looking. But I am amused by needing front sensors on a CRV! Back sensors IMO serve no purpose when I have a BU camera.

Sixteen year old driver…

1999 Taurus.

Doctor's kids don't drive 23 yr old sedans.. get real.

stickguy

2022 G Wagen? For “protection”

mjfloyd1

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

Sharp looking. But I am amused by needing front sensors on a CRV! Back sensors IMO serve no purpose when I have a BU camera.

Sixteen year old driver…

1999 Taurus.

I want all the air bags and safety Nannies. I’m quite fond of her.

mjfloyd1

carnaught said:

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

Sharp looking. But I am amused by needing front sensors on a CRV! Back sensors IMO serve no purpose when I have a BU camera.

Sixteen year old driver…

@mjfloyd1, in today’s world, well-played by you! You moved up 2 model years, got a hybrid with improved mileage and got more options and a better interior color. BTW, does yours also have a surround camera?

Just a backup camera

It is much quieter (motor noise) than the non hybrid

benjaminh

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39564530/2022-ford-maverick-hybrid-by-the-numbers/

"....The Maverick's $21,490 base price is low enough to qualify it as one of the cheapest vehicles on sale today. Even our nicely equipped midrange XLT model, which came with an optional sunroof, a spray-in bedliner, lane-keeping assist, blind-spot monitoring, all-season floor mats, and Cyber Orange paint, rang in at a perfectly reasonable $26,645. That's about $20,000 less expensive than the average new car transaction price, which soared to more than $47,000 in December 2021.....

But there's no hiding the hybrid's power deficit on the road: It is noticeably pokier than the turbocharged 2.0-liter nonhybrid we tested. That all-wheel-drive truck hit 60 mph in 5.9 seconds, while the hybrid—which is only available with front-wheel drive and a power-split CVT—needed 7.7 seconds. The electric boost gives the Maverick a playful feel at lower speeds, but it quickly runs out of steam during highway passing maneuvers....

While the Maverick posts respectable performance numbers, its real value lies in its fuel efficiency. The EPA estimates that the hybrid powertrain is good for 42 mpg city and 33 mpg highway, big boosts over the 23/30 city/highway figures earned by the front-wheel-drive nonhybrid variant. In our 75-mph highway fuel-economy test, we recorded 30 mpg for the hybrid, which is only 1 mpg higher than the nonhybrid Maverick. However, during everyday driving, where the hybrid system can take advantage of regenerative braking and more heavily lean on the electric side of the powertrain, we recorded 32 mpg. Comparing our observed fuel economy opens the door to a lot of caveats, but if you compare that 32 mpg to the most efficient Ranger we've tested, an XL 4x2 model that averaged 19 mpg back in 2019, there's some eye-opening arithmetic. If you drive 12,000 miles annually and gas is $4 per gallon, the Maverick hybrid will save you more than $1,000 a year compared to the Ranger...."

mjfloyd1

I may or may not have had to buff paint transfer off of the front bumper

Parking sensors save time…and aggravation

qbrozen

mjfloyd1 said:

I want all the air bags and safety Nannies. I’m quite fond of her.

My parents must have despised me.

mjfloyd1

qbrozen said:

mjfloyd1 said:

I want all the air bags and safety Nannies. I’m quite fond of her.

My parents must have despised me.

Well, it is what it is 😂

stickguy

qbrozen said:

mjfloyd1 said:

I want all the air bags and safety Nannies. I’m quite fond of her.

My parents must have despised me.

my first car was a rotted out '67 Camaro that I paid $275 for. But my father I guess did not hate me too bad because he had the mechanic check the (4 wheel) drum brakes to make sure there was a reasonable chance it would stop.

fintail

Count me in for a punch I guess - bought out the wagon this morning. Local CU offered 2.49% too - better than my bank, pretty pleased about that. I also went full send and bought a warranty that will cover the car through the loan term - even with that the price was well below retail on the car, thanks to the residual.

corvette

mjfloyd1 said:

Parking sensors save time…and aggravation

The ones in my Tundra sound continuously at drive throughs because you're so close to the wall, unless you put it in park every time you stop. I often just switch them off. The switch is hidden beneath the console, so they then often stay off for months until I'm parking and realize, "hey, I'm pretty close to something, shouldn't it be beeping right now?"

au1994

qbrozen said:

mjfloyd1 said:

I want all the air bags and safety Nannies. I’m quite fond of her.

My parents must have despised me.

First car had lap belts only and 4 wheel drum brakes which went out on me once. In wet conditions the driver front really liked to grab so I learned to anticipate that and cant the steering wheel. Raised more than a few eyebrows of first time passengers.

Oh yeah, the gas tank had a leak in the top so I could only run a half a tank at a time.

Edit - Inspired by SDA…drivers side mirror only and the brakes were manual. Had power steering but very sloppy. I think that leaked too. No back up lights or windshield washer. No A/C since it was a convertible. Ran so cold in the winter that I’d put a Dominoes box over part of the radiator so it would heat up quicker.

But it was my first car, a convertible V8 and I still got it up to 110+. Somehow it stopped and I didn’t fly off the road.

sda

No seat belts, metal dashboard, grabby fade prone manual drum brakes, sloppy manual steering, no back up lights, windshield washers or driver’s door mirror on my 62 Galaxie. A far cry from today’s safety mobiles.

ab348

Fin, good going getting the wagon locked down. Too good a deal to pass up, especially in these times.

kyfdx

My son's first car in 2010: 18 year old Acura
Next car in 2011: 24 year old BMW E30
Next car in 2014: 18 year old BMW M3, with airbags and stability control removed.

jmonroe1

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:

I found this about the 2016 F150 XL model only, not including standalone options.
Ford F-150 XL: 4,147,200 build permutations

I remember reading (I think in DeLorean’s book) that there were something like 28 million permutations of the 1969 Chevy.

And I’m pretty sure @imidazol97 had them all.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

nyccarguy said:

@mjfloyd1 - Congrats! Enjoy!

"most ridiculous reason" - We aren't ones to judge

Who says so?

jmonroe

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

I guess it is technically a "classic" but I'll never understand market blips like this one. And it isn't even done yet.

That pretty good. Buy a car and get 1000 bucks for every mile you drive. Where do I sign up to get into that club? Hell, I’d even buy a penalty box for that kind of a deal.

jmonroe

qbrozen

fintail said:

Count me in for a punch I guess - bought out the wagon this morning. Local CU offered 2.49% too - better than my bank, pretty pleased about that. I also went full send and bought a warranty that will cover the car through the loan term - even with that the price was well below retail on the car, thanks to the residual.

flag on the play. Can't punch the same car twice. lol.

corvette

qbrozen

au1994 said:

First car had lap belts only and 4 wheel drum brakes which went out on me once. In wet conditions the driver front really liked to grab so I learned to anticipate that and cant the steering wheel. Raised more than a few eyebrows of first time passengers.

Oh yeah, the gas tank had a leak in the top so I could only run a half a tank at a time.

Edit - Inspired by SDA…drivers side mirror only and the brakes were manual. Had power steering but very sloppy. I think that leaked too. No back up lights or windshield washer. No A/C since it was a convertible. Ran so cold in the winter that I’d put a Dominoes box over part of the radiator so it would heat up quicker.

But it was my first car, a convertible V8 and I still got it up to 110+. Somehow it stopped and I didn’t fly off the road.

Let's see... manual trans with non-assisted clutch, manual drums all around, manual steering with 33 x 12.5" tires, collapsed and torn ragtop with milky windows, no AC, barely working wipers. And I loved it. Everything since has been an absolute piece of cake to drive.

roadburner

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

Sharp looking. But I am amused by needing front sensors on a CRV! Back sensors IMO serve no purpose when I have a BU camera.

Sixteen year old driver…

My son's first car was a 1975 2002:

I sent him to the two day teen school at the BMW Performance center as well as Street Survival. He loved the '02; he especially liked the fact that it was small and nimble. An added bonus was that it attracted more attention in the school parking lot than did many of the newer Mustangs, Camaros, and such- thanks in part to the fact that Katy Perry's Teenage Dream video was released at about the same time- featuring a 1600 Cabriolet owned by a fellow BMW CCA member.

tifighter

Roadburner certainly knows his Katy Perry trivia.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

I guess it is technically a "classic" but I'll never understand market blips like this one. And it isn't even done yet.

Wow! What did that sell for in 1996? Never mind I see you listed that.