Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

I passed that place thousands of times.

henryn

@corvette, congratulations on your new Maverick. Are you planning a road trip to pick it up or have it shipped?

qbrozen

so, lemme walk y'all through the pain I endure daily while performing this search.

Stick posted that garage. Great. Looks perfect. No idea the price. But let's assume I found out it was affordable. Next, I google Voorhees zoning map. Then spend a good chunk of time trying to navigate it and find the property.
https://voorheesnj.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2022_ZONING-MAP-nj-aerials.pdf

So I've discovered it is B, Business. Now google Voorhees Zoning Codes, or some variation thereof. After some digging and clicking around, I found the book. https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/voorheestwp/latest/overview

clicked around and find the page I needed: https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/voorheestwp/latest/voorheestwp_nj/0-0-0-26944#JD_152.082

Read through the list and found car sales are NOT allowed.

I've gotten SOMEWHAT proficient at this point and have to spend maybe 10-15 mins total PER PROPERTY. As weird as it seems (at least to me), repair shops and gas stations are permitted in most general business zones, while dealerships are not. So you can service them, but you can't sell them.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

@qbrozen

What exactly are the "bare minimum" regulations for this physical structure?

just an 8x10 office, bathroom, and 2 display spaces.

However, office has to be firewalled off from any other business, and signed off by an engineer as such. So that excludes most multi-business structures. It is far easier to have a standalone structure.

So you start looking at standalones, BUT it has to fall into the appropriate town zone, which, from the dozens I have researched so far, is either Industrial or Highway Commercial. As you can imagine, finding property and/or buildings in these zones that doesn't cost a fortune is VERY rare.

What about finding a small property, perhaps even with an old house on it, that is in a "shifting" area along a large arterial and getting it rezoned? That's a pretty common thing in a lot of areas these days.

I drove back and forth along PA-5 between Conneaut (OH) and Erie multiple times this summer, and it was very clear to me that this route was, historically, quite residential. However, many of the houses are giving way to commercial development (especially closer to Erie) as owners die or sell. So, a typical block looks like: Business, business, house, business, house (or similar). I'm not sure how the rezoning process works, but it can't be all that uncommon for areas in which it makes sense to get houses further away from the roadways in modern times.

At least in that area, run-down houses on small lots are listed regularly for 40-50K. Not cheap necessarily, but not a fortune, either.

qbrozen

I've been open to ALL of this stuff. Empty lots, houses on highways, shanty towns, caves, whatever works.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

venture said:

A firewall can just be Type X drywall placed over the existing wall, I believe, to separate your area from the rest of the building.

Well, that's good, if true. But needs to be all walls, ceilings, and floor, I'd think. Then there is that pesky engineer signoff thing, as well as town and fire inspections/approval. The common thread through all of these issues is that they are all easy to do, but not so easy to get through the red tape.

Best way to know for sure is to talk to an engineer who does them to get the specifics.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

@qbrozen

What exactly are the "bare minimum" regulations for this physical structure?

just an 8x10 office, bathroom, and 2 display spaces.

However, office has to be firewalled off from any other business, and signed off by an engineer as such. So that excludes most multi-business structures. It is far easier to have a standalone structure.

So you start looking at standalones, BUT it has to fall into the appropriate town zone, which, from the dozens I have researched so far, is either Industrial or Highway Commercial. As you can imagine, finding property and/or buildings in these zones that doesn't cost a fortune is VERY rare.

Does the 8' x 10' office and 2 display spaces have to be on the same property? Can you rent an office on the 2nd floor of a shopping center (like where the Asian massage parlors are) and then find another place for your 2 display spaces?

I'm not accusing anyone here from patronizing the Asian Massage Parlors, but everyone has one in their town (maybe with the exaception of @xwesx).

au1994

I'm not accusing anyone here from patronizing the Asian Massage Parlors, but everyone has one in their town

I will neither confirm nor deny that statement.

corvette

@henryn - thanks! The plan at this point is a road trip to bring it here. The only question is whether I fly into Des Moines or grab a one-way rental car and drive up there.

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

Does the 8' x 10' office and 2 display spaces have to be on the same property? Can you rent an office on the 2nd floor of a shopping center (like where the Asian massage parlors are) and then find another place for your 2 display spaces?

I'm not accusing anyone here from patronizing the Asian Massage Parlors, but everyone has one in their town (maybe with the exaception of @xwesx).

They don't say they CAN be 2 separate properties. And, as I'm sure you know, government don't take kindly to interpretation. As many realtors and other business owners have told me: if it doesn't clearly say you CAN do something, than you can't.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

Does the 8' x 10' office and 2 display spaces have to be on the same property? Can you rent an office on the 2nd floor of a shopping center (like where the Asian massage parlors are) and then find another place for your 2 display spaces?

I'm not accusing anyone here from patronizing the Asian Massage Parlors, but everyone has one in their town (maybe with the exaception of @xwesx).

They don't say they CAN be 2 separate properties. And, as I'm sure you know, government don't take kindly to interpretation. As many realtors and other business owners have told me: if it doesn't clearly say you CAN do something, than you can't.

Maybe look for a down-on-their-luck existing car lot, and buy the business?

tjc78

Q, unfortunately you may need to wait out a BHPH lot that wants to sell. Years ago when my Uncle opened his lot that it what he ultimately ended up doing.

qbrozen

I have found a couple but too far and too much money.

mjfloyd1

I’m pleasantly surprised at how the new M2 rear end looks in alpine white

stickguy

At least staring with a dead used lot, you know zoning should be good!

Or just curbstone like all the shady guys on CL or marketplace.

Sandman6472

Best thing to do is buy out the Rav4 at that price. A co-worker at Enterprise got a '19 Rav4 XLE with 16 K on it for $21K just before the pandemic sent us all home...his timing couldn't have been much better. In your mom's case, get over there & sign on the dotted line to make that vehicle hers! She obviously is o k driving it, isn't this her second or third Ravie already? Y'all also know how it was driven and if all the maintenance was done on time plus exactly what was done & who did it. Buying another CPO unit would probably cost her more even if it has a great warranty & the unknown would bother me especially knowing that I turned down my own lease vehicle.
No, best thing for her to do is just buy it out & forget about it. Really think she'll be happier in the long run. And if not, eventually sell it & get something else when the current situation improves. That $20K is too good to turn down!

explorerx4

Q,
Did you ever try out that ionizer? I'm watching a Specialty Motor Cars video and the subject is a car with a heavy smokers smell among other issues.

xwesx

corvette said:

@henryn - thanks! The plan at this point is a road trip to bring it here. The only question is whether I fly into Des Moines or grab a one-way rental car and drive up there.

That should be a nice little trip; especially if you're able to do it within the next few weeks. We all know that Thanksgiving weekend brings the mandatory high winds and blizzards through the midwest!

Rental companies like to hammer people on the one-way fees - I'd think the flight would be the cheaper option given how close it is.

explorerx4

@xwesx,
Are you saying I should make sure my snow blower is going to start?

cdnpinhead

I'd be interested in how difficult this would be in TN or TX or FL, not that it's relevant to the current discussion. The man is in NJ, which appears to mean that he's screwed.

This is what "business friendly" is about.

tjc78

The problem guys is she doesn’t really want to buy it. She has become accustomed to getting something new every three years. I get the 20K is tough to pass up, but also keep in mind that unless she puts a chunk of cash down her payments will be more than she is paying now for a three year old car.

I could use the equity to buy down another RAV lease but they are exactly the same as she has now.

I may reach out to an LH broker tomorrow and get some buy bids for her car.

I’m thinking the Murano would be a step up from a RAV. It still uses the VQ and is a bit bigger. The gas mileage penalty is something to think about but she doesn’t drive much.

explorerx4

Maybe Lexus NX? Bones same as RAV4 but nicer. She probably won't realize the commonality.

Michaell

explorerx4 said:

Maybe Lexus NX? Bones same as RAV4 but nicer. She probably won't realize the commonality.

Way too expensive, I'm afraid.

Even re-upping on a RAV4 lease will likely cost 30-50% more than the current payment.

stickguy

dealer is going to throw a party getting that one turned back in.

Michaell

The more quotes and deals I see posted in the various discussion threads, the more I've come to realize that 1.5% is the new 1% for lease payments.

Yes, there are still some 1% payments out there, but they are very rare.

stickguy

good thing I don't plan to lease any more!

xwesx

tjc78 said:

The problem guys is she doesn’t really want to buy it. She has become accustomed to getting something new every three years. I get the 20K is tough to pass up, but also keep in mind that unless she puts a chunk of cash down her payments will be more than she is paying now for a three year old car.

I could use the equity to buy down another RAV lease but they are exactly the same as she has now.

I may reach out to an LH broker tomorrow and get some buy bids for her car.

I’m thinking the Murano would be a step up from a RAV. It still uses the VQ and is a bit bigger. The gas mileage penalty is something to think about but she doesn’t drive much.

Except.... she doesn't even use the thing anymore!

Your house, your rules.



Bwhahahahahahahahahaha!

jmonroe1

au1994 said:

I'm not accusing anyone here from patronizing the Asian Massage Parlors, but everyone has one in their town

I will neither confirm nor deny that statement.

———————-/————————-
My village has at least a handful that the police know about.

jmonroe

qbrozen

I'm really thinking I may give dealervoyant a shot. The one thing kind of swaying me is that they require you come down to GA for an in-person seminar. They wouldn't want people there in person if they are just planning on ripping you off.

jmonroe1

corvette said:

@henryn - thanks! The plan at this point is a road trip to bring it here. The only question is whether I fly into Des Moines or grab a one-way rental car and drive up there.

————————————————-
Gee, I’m sorry if I scared you with that car carrier comment. Drops are really pretty rare.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

Does the 8' x 10' office and 2 display spaces have to be on the same property? Can you rent an office on the 2nd floor of a shopping center (like where the Asian massage parlors are) and then find another place for your 2 display spaces?

I'm not accusing anyone here from patronizing the Asian Massage Parlors, but everyone has one in their town (maybe with the exaception of @xwesx).

They don't say they CAN be 2 separate properties. And, as I'm sure you know, government don't take kindly to interpretation. As many realtors and other business owners have told me: if it doesn't clearly say you CAN do something, than you can't.

————————————————
You’re not supposed to cheat on your taxes but lots of people do and they get away with it. I think we all know someone who falls into that category.

jmonroe

tjc78

Her deal three years ago was $350 / $350 OOP with Toyota gap (extra cost of Toyota leases)

This was not an easy deal to get and was better than some broker deals. Today with just first OOP this is close to $500 if you can it at MSRP which is no easy task.

I’ll know more in the next few days after I dig in. She is keen to the Murano idea, she has ridden in a friends and likes it.

Believe me it would be easier to just have her buy it.

qbrozen

NJ MVC does come to inspect your business in person before approval, and periodically thereafter.

Speaking of transport, our Suzuki has arrived. I'm picking up the car dolly from Uhaul Monday eve and making the trip to Baltimore Tues. My first time solo with my fresh TWIC ID.

ab348

mjfloyd1 said:

I’m pleasantly surprised at how the new M2 rear end looks in alpine white

Keep trying… 😧

ab348

stickguy said:

At least staring with a dead used lot, you know zoning should be good!

Or just curbstone like all the shady guys on CL or marketplace.

Maybe Q should just pivot away from this used car racket and go all-in on Asian Massage Parlors… 🤣

stickguy

I'm thinking he could make a killing just picking up imports at the port for people.

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

I'm really thinking I may give dealervoyant a shot. The one thing kind of swaying me is that they require you come down to GA for an in-person seminar. They wouldn't want people there in person if they are just planning on ripping you off.

————————————————-
Not you specifically but they could be looking for folks that look as dumb as they are.

jmonroe

corvette

qbrozen said:

They wouldn't want people there in person if they are just planning on ripping you off.

They still give time-share seminars in person, if memory serves.

qbrozen

corvette said:

qbrozen said:

They wouldn't want people there in person if they are just planning on ripping you off.

They still give time-share seminars in person, if memory serves.

fair point. Of course, you are getting exactly what they promise.

qbrozen

ab348 said:

Maybe Q should just pivot away from this used car racket and go all-in on Asian Massage Parlors… 🤣

If only I could pass for a 5' Asian woman.

corvette

Looks like the cost of a one-stop flight to Des Moines a month from now is about the same as a one-way rental for two days (not including fuel), so definitely pointing in the direction of flying vs. driving.

stickguy

certainly quicker.

roadburner

I broke down and had a local shop put new Bilstein B4 struts/shocks on the Clubman at all four corners- along with new rear ant-roll bar bushings and end links. I knew that the OEM parts were almost completely shot, but I'm still amazed at the difference in ride/handling.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

@oldfarmer50
@Sandman6472

Have you driven a recent Murano? How does it compare to a RAV? Nissan is pumping up the 18 month residuals and I’m thinking this may be a replacement for Mom’s RAV… otherwise I’m having her buy it. No way you can get a 2019 RAV XLE with 17K miles for $20K anywhere so it’s not a bad deal for her.

Not too many Muranos in our fleet up here. We have more Rogues than you can shake a stick at. I seem to remember the Murano being like a bigger version.

I got to drive a Porsche Panamera from Albany to Burlington VT today. I can tell you more about that than the Murano.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Here’s one. Former shell station. Been for sale for years. A couple years ago it was supposed to be auctioned but don’t know if it ever happened. Last year they uncovered the windows for some reason (had been boarded up). And brand new Wawa across the street!

Probably not cost effective. Or convenient.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/yNvXiZxHc6GXu17C8?g_st=ic

Just be sure that the old gas tanks were taken care of.

Years ago a long time little gas station found out the tanks were leaking and the state wanted him to spend $6 million in cleanup. He handed them the keys and walked away. The state spent years removing the contamination before the land was resold and turned into a strip mall.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

Her deal three years ago was $350 / $350 OOP with Toyota gap (extra cost of Toyota leases)

This was not an easy deal to get and was better than some broker deals. Today with just first OOP this is close to $500 if you can it at MSRP which is no easy task.

I’ll know more in the next few days after I dig in. She is keen to the Murano idea, she has ridden in a friends and likes it.

Believe me it would be easier to just have her buy it.

You might want to read some reviews on the Murano. I seem to remember there were some issues that reviewers didn’t like but I can’t recall exactly what they were.

kyfdx

corvette said:

Looks like the cost of a one-stop flight to Des Moines a month from now is about the same as a one-way rental for two days (not including fuel), so definitely pointing in the direction of flying vs. driving.

I can't get National to even quote a one-way rental, any more.

stickguy said:

certainly quicker.

Louisville to Des Moines? I bet I can drive it just as quickly, once you factor in driving to the airport, arriving 2 hours ahead of your flight, then changing planes with a 2 hour layover..

Not that I'd want to..

nyccarguy

roadburner said:

I broke down and had a local shop put new Bilstein B4 struts/shocks on the Clubman at all four corners- along with new rear ant-roll bar bushings and end links. I knew that the OEM parts were almost completely shot, but I'm still amazed at the difference in ride/handling.

Even better than a brand new car

stickguy

certainly quicker.

kyfdx said:

corvette said:

Looks like the cost of a one-stop flight to Des Moines a month from now is about the same as a one-way rental for two days (not including fuel), so definitely pointing in the direction of flying vs. driving.

I can't get National to even quote a one-way rental, any more.

stickguy said:

certainly quicker.

Louisville to Des Moines? I bet I can drive it just as quickly, once you factor in driving to the airport, arriving 2 hours ahead of your flight, then changing planes with a 2 hour layover..

Not that I'd want to..

I assumed it was further since he mentioned a 2 day rental.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

certainly quicker.

kyfdx said:

corvette said:

Looks like the cost of a one-stop flight to Des Moines a month from now is about the same as a one-way rental for two days (not including fuel), so definitely pointing in the direction of flying vs. driving.

I can't get National to even quote a one-way rental, any more.

stickguy said:

certainly quicker.

Louisville to Des Moines? I bet I can drive it just as quickly, once you factor in driving to the airport, arriving 2 hours ahead of your flight, then changing planes with a 2 hour layover..

Not that I'd want to..

I assumed it was further since he mentioned a 2 day rental.

About 9 hours