Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

corvette

venture said:

Is that 3 this year so far - not counting what QB has going on? My BMW, Henryn's Silverado, and Explorers Lincoln.

And mlevine's 2020 Mercedes E350.

Despite my contentment with the Maverick, my better half has predicted I will buy something by April.

stickguy

it IMO is a tough one to flip on from, because not much else can do all the things the Maverick does.

qbrozen

When was RB’s benz purchase?

corvette

qbrozen said:

When was RB’s benz purchase?

I have it as 12/22/22.

roadburner

@corvette said:
I have it as 12/22/22.

Yep.

breld

So, I’ll try to be brief.

Q tipped me toward some California dealers who are heavily discounting WRXs (through Leasehackr), so this morning I sent out an email to a few local Subaru dealers to see if any would be willing to match those discounts. Only one replied at all, and said yes, they would do it on an in-stock unit.

Knowing I was likely to pull the trigger, I spent much of the day looking at alternatives just to be sure.

• Civic Si - a couple dealers have an Si in stock so I thought I’d go check them out, knowing full well that if they were sitting in the showroom then they must have huge markups. I wasn’t wrong. First dealer had about $7k of accessories and another $5k markup. Second one had about the same in accessories but no markup. And me there in person ready to buy today…no budging.
  
• Hyundai N - no Elantra N’s to look at nearby, so I did look at a 2020 Veloster N with only 13k miles. Fun drive and very compliant, which I didn’t necessarily expect from this earlier N vehicle. $28k made it seem like a pretty good deal, though I reminded myself that it’s now 3 years old.
  

So ended up at the Subaru dealer, and had the choice of a Premium or Limited model. The Premium provides some nice updates over the Base…keyless access (funny that’s not included on the base), upgraded cloth seats, heated seats, larger screen. Limited adds suede seats, driver’s side power adjustments, stereo upgrade, BSM, sunroof, all for a $4k premium.

After thinking it all through and the purpose of this car, I decided the Premium trim would be the best balance and pulled the trigger on that. Ceramic White with the manual trannie. I pick it up tomorrow so will post pics then.

corvette

Nice buy, @breld !

As to the Civic, I always try to buy "LuxCare" for $1,998, an "HPD kit" for $1,719.00, and $253.00 lug nuts whenever I buy a car.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

qbrozen said:

ab348 said:

I have found in driving several base models of other brands that for me they are usually best avoided.

But we're talking about resale.
Options most often depreciate more than the base vehicle. There are some exceptions but they are few and most common on upper brands.

I have found this to be true, in pretty much all cases. There are, as always, exceptions. I remember once trying to trade in a Cadillac, and getting low-balled because it didn't have a sunroof.

If it had a sunroof they would have low balled you because it lacked something else.

I got to do a 150 miles in a 2022 Silverado today and I can see why you chose to go with one. Very smooth ride, maybe even smoother than the Ram. Certainly better riding than the F-150. It looked like a basic 4x4 trim with (I assume) the 5.3L. Plenty of power and it handled remarkably well in the mountain twisties. Limited gauge functions but it did come with Sirius radio. All around nice truck.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

My wife decided she wanted to test drive a Corsair today, so stopped at the Lincoln dealer while we were out running some errands.
They didn't have a black over black which she wanted but she drove another one to see how she liked it.
While we were out on the test drive with the salesguy, I asked if they accepted Xplan, which is a fixed price affiliate plan. He said they had just started accepting it again as they finally had inventory.
When we got back I asked if they did any dealer trades with their other location.
He said they did and would see if they had what my wife was looking for.
I had had my eye on a particular unit which had been the the dealer location we were at, but it was no longer there.
It was however at the other location, so they are going to bring it back.
We let them give us an appraisal on our current vehicle and I told him I'm going to be upfront with you, we just had the turbo replaced and I think that's good news because it should be good for another 7 years.
There was a nice surprise when he came back with the numbers. It was not the trade in number.
We qualified for $750 in owner loyalty on top of another $500 general rebate.
Edit: It looks like $1250 owner loyalty and no general rebate.
They offered 15k for the MKC, 2016 with 70k miles. I told them I had gotten some online offers and he asked for the best one and I told him 16,500, the truth.
He asked I if I had ever sold a car to any of the online companies and I told him yes to Carmax, Carvana and Vroom.
They came back with 16K and pointing out the tax advantage. Ohio give you trade in credit when calculating the sales tax.
I asked my wife if she was ok with 16 as a trade in. She said she was, we shook hands all around, she put down a deposit, he took some personal and financial info and the deal was done.
It should be in the garage tomorrow or Wednesday.

That’s great and no “market adjustment” nonsense some dealers play.

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

Nice buy, @breld !

As to the Civic, I always try to buy "LuxCare" for $1,998, an "HPD kit" for $1,719.00, and $253.00 lug nuts whenever I buy a car.

On the black lug nuts buy a can of spray paint and save $243.

jmonroe1

@breld, I knew it was just a matter of time. Good luck with it. If you get a chance, how about a pic of the garage with all 6 spaces filled.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

@oldfarmer50 said:
On the black lug nuts buy a can of spray paint and save $243.

————————————————
More like a savings of $249.22.

jmonroe

ab348

jmonroe1 said:

Don’t pay any attention to @ab348, no one else does.

Oh, hush. Just go drive your Old Man Gray M-B wannabe with the faux-Bentley badge.

So there!

henryn

corvette said:

Nice buy, @breld !

As to the Civic, I always try to buy "LuxCare" for $1,998, an "HPD kit" for $1,719.00, and $253.00 lug nuts whenever I buy a car.

That's actually worse than the add-ons that the dealer had on my Silverado. There were 4 line items, 3 @ $999 and 1 @ $399.

It's a funny thing -- I didn't even read the list, just scanned the numbers, so I have no idea what they thought they were trying to sell. Fortunately, they immediately agreed to drop all of them, whatever they were.

qbrozen

So the Opel has “failed inspection.” Although, more precisely, they could not inspect it. We’ve become so reliant on computers that testing something that is not present in their computer has become an impossibility. I was given a number to call, who then gave me another number, who then gave me another number, which was too inundated and/or understaffed to answer my call today. AND, my wife has failed to keep up on the Fiat’s reg and inspection. Hmmm… he has no vehicle in which he can take his test tomorrow. Now we are heading out to borrow grandma’s car. Freakin Jersey.

breld

I have to admit, I did have a moment where I was considering that Civic Si. On one hand, $36k seems reasonable for a well reviewed, heavily sought after sporty coupe. But I came down from that quickly…they’re holding their value well, but relative to the $30k MSRP. Plus, it would spoil the fun a bit when the related Integra comes in.

au1994

Congrats @breld. The add ons for the Civic are laughable. I guess they keep trying this stuff because someone actually pays it? You’ll enjoy the WRX and then the transition to the Integra. Civic Si to Integra might not be a huge change.

Along the same lines, was browsing the local BMW site this weekend. Click on an X4. Nice color combo of white over cognac, well equipped. A so-so price of $61k. Glance at the financing and they are basing their payment off of zero off (probably in this day and time) and a rate of 6.9. Pretty sure I can better that.

The funny part was the offered a really good looking lease price, like $595. I knew it was going to be bad but I clicked anyway…they wanted $13k down to get to that lease rate!

breld

I think these Honda dealers are trying to eek out the profits from the add-ons and markups while supplies are still low. Both dealerships I visited yesterday had these Si’s in the middle of the showroom, which I took as a sign they know they may sit for awhile, but they’ll be patient since it’s only one, possibly two, units they’re sitting on.

breld

The pricing of the new Civic Type R is interesting…when they were $35k in 2017, there was apparently a lot of appetite for markups, and eventually Honda raised the MSRP to $40k. With the new one priced at an MSRP of $45k, I think dealers are finding buyers are actually savvy enough to recognize that when you get to $50k, there are a lot of attractive choices.

As always, the early adopters who had to have nothing but the new Type R may be paying up for one, but I think that will settle once (if) supply normalizes.

sda

I believe I shared this recently, a local Honda dealer routinely marks up Civics with countless add ons $4-5k. That puts the Touring around $36k. Acura has modest markups on the Integra where you can essentially buy an Integra cheaper or about the same as the marked up Civic. Integra please. The last of the 22 Accord Sports were marked up around $1200, which put them on par with a marked up Civic Sport. No comparison, Accord please even if it is the outgoing model.

breld

The current state of the Honda market saddens and frustrates me.

Having owned a 1990 Civic Si, 1993 Prelude Si, 2004 TSX and more recently the Type R, I’ve been pretty passionate about their products. But the dealerships have become so arrogant with the success of their products.

My 18 year old would like a Civic, but the markups, even on something without an “Si” or “Type R” badge cause us to consider other brands.

jmonroe1

@ab348 said:
Oh, hush. Just go drive your Old Man Gray M-B wannabe with the faux-Bentley badge.

So there!

————————————————
Good idea. I’ll take it for a short drive when we go to our favorite Italian restaurant tonight. So there to you.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

@henryn said:
That's actually worse than the add-ons that the dealer had on my Silverado. There were 4 line items, 3 @ $999 and 1 @ $399.

It's a funny thing -- I didn't even read the list, just scanned the numbers, so I have no idea what they thought they were trying to sell. Fortunately, they immediately agreed to drop all of them, whatever they were.

————————————————
So, by the time they removed those items you ended up with stripper.

jmonroe

tifighter

kyfdx

breld said:

The current state of the Honda market saddens and frustrates me.

Having owned a 1990 Civic Si, 1993 Prelude Si, 2004 TSX and more recently the Type R, I’ve been pretty passionate about their products. But the dealerships have become so arrogant with the success of their products.

My 18 year old would like a Civic, but the markups, even on something without an “Si” or “Type R” badge cause us to consider other brands.

My girlfriend bought a 1981 Civic with $6300 MSRP. They wouldn't take less than $7K for it. History repeats itself.

qbrozen

Ha. Crazy, right?
MVC says it needs a handbrake in the center. That eliminates the Charger. MVC says reg and inspection have to be current, so goodbye Opel and Fiat. He wants it to be small, so that eliminates the Charger again as well as the Sprinter and S90. No RHD, so scratch all those (not inspected anyway). Doesn’t know how to drive a stick yet (I want him to get comfortable driving first), so no WRX for him.

corvette

Huh? Neither vehicle in my fleet has a handbrake in the center, unless the electronic parking brake on the Mav counts. If I went to my local Enterprise, I doubt many of the vehicles would qualify.

Michaell

@qbrozen - wouldn't it have made sense for you to learn about all of these MVC restrictions before buying the Opel and getting him licensed?

@corvette - I'm wondering if the center handbrake restriction is for new drivers, or drivers under a certain age?

jmonroe1

@qbrozen said:
Ha. Crazy, right?
MVC says it needs a handbrake in the center. That eliminates the Charger. MVC says reg and inspection have to be current, so goodbye Opel and Fiat. He wants it to be small, so that eliminates the Charger again as well as the Sprinter and S90. No RHD, so scratch all those (not inspected anyway). Doesn’t know how to drive a stick yet (I want him to get comfortable driving first), so no WRX for him.

————————————————
Classic first world problems. In some societies you’d have to saddle the camel and that’s if someone didn’t steal the camel.

jmonroe

nyccarguy

@breld - well done! Did you buy or lease?

stickguy

I was wondering if NJ still had the handbrake rule. They had that when my kids took their tests. Was OK for my daughter (we had the Volvo S40 by then). My son, the only car we had he could drive was an Odyssey, which was a no go. We had to pay the driving school guy to take him (what a racket!)

unless they count an electronic brake, not many newer cars left that can be used. Our RDX is electronic, but the button is left of the steering wheel. at least the Maverick is in the center console.

breld

nyccarguy said:

@breld - well done! Did you buy or lease?

Thanks - it was a purchase. I considered both, but it basically came down to the interest rate being lower to finance than lease. Subaru had a promo rate of 2.90%, and they were marking up the lease rate (I kindly pointed that out, but that conversation didn’t go anywhere).

breld

jmonroe1 said:

@breld, I knew it was just a matter of time. Good luck with it. If you get a chance, how about a pic of the garage with all 6 spaces filled.

jmonroe

How about 5 spaces filled? My wife clearly is more adventurous with colors.

breld

Officially took delivery of the WRX this evening and had a great time commuting home. The shifting feel and smoothness of acceleration are particularly impressive to me. Subaru isn’t fooling anyone with a luxury level interior like a GTI (or at least how they used to be), but I find it appropriate for the price level. Seats don’t adjust much (these are 6-way versus 10-way on the Limited), but are comfortable and supportive. Mine has the auto-dimming mirror with homelink, which is a nice touch. The armrest is uncomfortable and placed too low and too far back, which is why most owners are adding an extending armrest accessory (c’mon Subaru, if you offer that you should just include it).

Like most, I wasn’t a fan of the exterior styling of this new model, but given all the other positive attributes I’m fine with the styling and find it growing on me. Subaru is known to react quickly aren’t they? I seem to recall them making significant changes after the introduction of the new WRX a couple gens ago (like 2009-2010). I suspect they may do the same here.

Obligatory pics…

breld

I included that second to last picture to show the contrast between the two whites. The Mercedes almost looks yellow compared to the more grayish tint white of the Subaru.

qbrozen

Michaell said:

@qbrozen - wouldn't it have made sense for you to learn about all of these MVC restrictions before buying the Opel and getting him licensed?

@corvette - I'm wondering if the center handbrake restriction is for new drivers, or drivers under a certain age?

well, the Opel qualifies with the handbrake. Was not expecting the inspection issue.
Regardless, I would never have restricted what he got based on the needs for a 5-min test.

Dumber still, they won't allow a rental vehicle unless the person being tested is on the rental agreement, which is impossible for a 17-yr-old.

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

Huh? Neither vehicle in my fleet has a handbrake in the center, unless the electronic parking brake on the Mav counts. If I went to my local Enterprise, I doubt many of the vehicles would qualify.

I think three of my cars have the handbrake in the middle but that seems like a dumb requirement. It seems rather arbitrary and must be quite a burden on families of modest means. What happens if you can’t find a car that qualifies, you get to ride a bike until you’re 70?

roadburner

breld said:

The current state of the Honda market saddens and frustrates me.

Having owned a 1990 Civic Si, 1993 Prelude Si, 2004 TSX and more recently the Type R, I’ve been pretty passionate about their products. But the dealerships have become so arrogant with the success of their products.

My 18 year old would like a Civic, but the markups, even on something without an “Si” or “Type R” badge cause us to consider other brands.

As I've mentioned before, back in 1984 my girlfriend(now wife) wanted a Honda Accord hatchback. Every Cincinnati dealer jerked us around to the point that she has never considered buying a Honda again. Had she been treated right I suspect she would have remained a customer for life.

stickguy

in NJ young drivers are required to do 4 hours in car with a professional driving instructor. so there are a lot of local driving schools. and they all offer an extra service (for some $ amount of course) where they will pick the kid up, take them to the driver's test, and bring them back after.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

in NJ young drivers are required to do 4 hours in car with a professional driving instructor. so there are a lot of local driving schools. and they all offer an extra service (for some $ amount of course) where they will pick the kid up, take them to the driver's test, and bring them back after.

yeah. We thought about it too late. My wife called them a few days ago and they said they would have needed at least 3 weeks' notice.

roadburner

The X1 got it's annual oil change today- along with a coolant flush. Thanks to my purchase of the 3 year oil change package and my BMW Rewards cards the cost was $0.00. I dropped the Club Sport off next for a change of brake fluid, coolant and manual transmission oil, and I expect to pay the same amount.
We got a 330i xDrive loaner- a really nice drive. I wish BMW had been a bit more adventurous on the PHEV front and offered an M340e...

corvette

qbrozen said:

Dumber still, they won't allow a rental vehicle unless the person being tested is on the rental agreement, which is impossible for a 17-yr-old.

Wasn't there some issue with him having to take state-approved driver training through a vendor on "the list?" This sounds like more of the same. I'm sure the same vendor would let him use their driver's ed training vehicle (with a center handbrake) for the test, for the payment of an appropriate fee.

28firefighter

Congrats, @breld!

[Deleted User]

Nice @breld, enjoy!!!

nyccarguy

@breld - nice job going with the Premium. I think it strikes a nice upgrade over the base model. The Limited gets more, but it is more than you want in a car like this and then the price tag gets pushed up.

venture

oldfarmer50 said:

corvette said:

Huh? Neither vehicle in my fleet has a handbrake in the center, unless the electronic parking brake on the Mav counts. If I went to my local Enterprise, I doubt many of the vehicles would qualify.

I think three of my cars have the handbrake in the middle but that seems like a dumb requirement. It seems rather arbitrary and must be quite a burden on families of modest means. What happens if you can’t find a car that qualifies, you get to ride a bike until you’re 70?

Agree on the dumb factor. The only reason I can think of is the driving instructor guy has a brake he can grab in an emergency. Still dumb.

venture

breld said:

Officially took delivery of the WRX this evening and had a great time commuting home. The shifting feel and smoothness of acceleration are particularly impressive to me. Subaru isn’t fooling anyone with a luxury level interior like a GTI (or at least how they used to be), but I find it appropriate for the price level. Seats don’t adjust much (these are 6-way versus 10-way on the Limited), but are comfortable and supportive. Mine has the auto-dimming mirror with homelink, which is a nice touch. The armrest is uncomfortable and placed too low and too far back, which is why most owners are adding an extending armrest accessory (c’mon Subaru, if you offer that you should just include it).

Like most, I wasn’t a fan of the exterior styling of this new model, but given all the other positive attributes I’m fine with the styling and find it growing on me. Subaru is known to react quickly aren’t they? I seem to recall them making significant changes after the introduction of the new WRX a couple gens ago (like 2009-2010). I suspect they may do the same here.

Obligatory pics…

I was very happy with my Legacy XT. I only traded it because it was getting old.

Mrs. venture is ready to move on from her Ascent (at least I am) and get another Forester. All the black cladding has me re-thinking Subaru again.

stickguy

I think that WRX is really good looking. Nice and not garish, but still shows some "muscle".

I should drive one someday. I did look at those back in 2017 when I ended up with the Elantra sport (at the time I was debating going back to a manual trans but ended up with an automatic).

I remember driving one back to back with a GLI manual. The Subaru was just not enjoyable to me. Drove like a tractor and the clutch/shifter were somewhat on the crude side. I could see it appealing to a kid that wanted to hot rod it, but wasn't not really what i was looking for in my mid-50s! The GLI drove great in comparison, and I could easily see that one being a nice DD and roadtrip car.

tjc78

Congrats Breld!

breld

@stickguy - your experience with the previous WRX is similar to mine. With nice weather and an itch to test some fun cars on Saturday, I decided to try out the new WRX mostly on a whim, and was obviously impressed with the change in feel...the rest is history.

Give one a shot...could be right up your alley. Or...wait about 6 months and come out for some hiking in Denver and then drive home in a lightly used WRX.