Wow, that went for almost as much as they sell for on Carvana.😙
That might not be the race car it would seem. The 5.0L back in 1992 put out 185hp in an F-150 (225hp in a Mustang). The 4.0L in a 2011 Ranger put out 207hp.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Wow, that went for almost as much as they sell for on Carvana.😙
That might not be the race car it would seem. The 5.0L back in 1992 put out 185hp in an F-150 (225hp in a Mustang). The 4.0L in a 2011 Ranger put out 207hp.
I had one of those 4.0s, in our 2003 Explorer. Not terribly fast, but it got poor gas mileage.
also saw this. my favorite "big" truck (it probably looks like a Ranger though compared to a current generation F150). The perfect configuration to make it maneuverable, plus it looks great. and the 4.6 with a 5 speed stick. Love it, and probably clean underneath based on where it comes from. Would never find something this clean in the rust belt.
seems from reading that the biggest problem the M2 has is the 240i. that is already absurdly fast but quite a bit cheaper (I think?)
I was never able to warm up to the styling of the G42 2 Series; it seems disjointed to me. The designer clamed that he incorporated 2002 styling cues into the design, but I sure don't see it.
I may be alone on this, but I like the styling of the new 2-series. I'm even warming up to the M2. Not that I've tried (okay, I may have reached out to one dealer), but if I could secure an order, presumably at MSRP, for one, I'd strongly consider it.
The ability to truly order a BMW (and some other luxury makes) sets them apart from other manufacturers/dealers who don't have a formal ordering system, where it's largely up to individual dealerships to basically put your name down on an interest list, and then they might contact you when they happen to have an allocation.
I'd take the Civic Type R over the Integra Type S, but had no luck finding a Honda dealer who wasn't so arrogant as to not even accept a deposit, whereas the Acura dealership was fine doing so. Talk to a Toyota dealer about a manual Supra, and you might get on a list and the might contact you at some point. Same with the Z.
But while order slots are limited, you can walk into a BMW dealership and sign up to get an eventual order for an M2. Apparently a $10k markup on a Civic Type R is considered reasonable on various boards. Nissan Z's are obviously marked up several thousand dollars if available at all. And good luck finding a manual Supra for less than $60k. So an M2 for $65k MSRP? Not a bad deal to me.
No. MSRP on the current one is close to $10k over the 2017 I had purchased. When it was priced at mid-$30k’s, there was a lot of room for dealers to mark it up and keep it desirable. Not so much anymore with an MSRP of around $45k.
Of course there are those who have to have it and nothing else, and pure supply helps keep the pricing tight, but most buyers, even those who are Honda fanatics, recognize what else you can buy when you start getting into the $50k’s.
No. MSRP on the current one is close to $10k over the 2017 I had purchased. When it was priced at mid-$30k’s, there was a lot of room for dealers to mark it up and keep it desirable. Not so much anymore with an MSRP of around $45k.
Of course there are those who have to have it and nothing else, and pure supply helps keep the pricing tight, but most buyers, even those who are Honda fanatics, recognize what else you can buy when you start getting into the $50k’s.
Half the point of a Type R Civic is that it is first and foremost a Honda which means it will give you some sort of value. I know "nothing" is cheap anymore, but $50K + is a lot of money for a Honda.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Agreed - I’d give it a shot at that price. @michaell was with me when I tested one out…the brake feel would take some getting used to, and maybe you never would, but it was otherwise a very luxurious drive.
No. MSRP on the current one is close to $10k over the 2017 I had purchased. When it was priced at mid-$30k’s, there was a lot of room for dealers to mark it up and keep it desirable. Not so much anymore with an MSRP of around $45k.
Of course there are those who have to have it and nothing else, and pure supply helps keep the pricing tight, but most buyers, even those who are Honda fanatics, recognize what else you can buy when you start getting into the $50k’s.
Half the point of a Type R Civic is that it is first and foremost a Honda which means it will give you some sort of value. I know "nothing" is cheap anymore, but $50K + is a lot of money for a Honda.
Having been such a Honda fan, the most frustrating thing to me is the arrogance of the Honda dealerships, at least here in the CO area. There’s not a one that doesn’t add some sort of option package and/or markups to pretty much each and every vehicle on the lot. And they act like they’re doing you a favor by only adding a few thousand to the MSRP. Type Rs I can almost understand. Civic Sis are starting to get ridiculous. But you’d be hard pressed to find a “regular” Civic without it being treated like some precious commodity.
All that makes me look at alternatives for my son, who has been drawn to the Civic for years now. Shame, given that my graduation car was the 1990 Civic Si and it’d be pretty cool for him to get into a Civic some 30 years later.
@breld - They want to add every factory accessory in the book plus their "Colorado Elite" package, that's ok. Can't blame them for trying. But the Market Value Adjustment & Dealer Added Markup are just disgusting.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Come to my area. My son's fiancée just got a CRV sport hybrid (very rare still to have one on the lot). Paid straight sticker, no ADM, and no accessories tacked on).
I went to a different dealer to check one out (they had, well, 1) and same thing. They were selling for MSRP exactly, no adds unless you wanted them.
oh, NY still caps doc fees at something reasonable ($149 maybe?) so another savings. Just don't look at the sales tax line!
$2,300 for black 18" alloy wheels is pretty disgusting, as well. I don't see them on Honda's website, but if memory serves, the OE Honda accessory black wheels used to be the same design as the standard ones, just painted black instead of silver. $2,300 would buy a very nice 19" or 20" wheel and tire set, or one could just have someone paint or powder coat the OE wheels.
No. MSRP on the current one is close to $10k over the 2017 I had purchased. When it was priced at mid-$30k’s, there was a lot of room for dealers to mark it up and keep it desirable. Not so much anymore with an MSRP of around $45k.
Of course there are those who have to have it and nothing else, and pure supply helps keep the pricing tight, but most buyers, even those who are Honda fanatics, recognize what else you can buy when you start getting into the $50k’s.
Half the point of a Type R Civic is that it is first and foremost a Honda which means it will give you some sort of value. I know "nothing" is cheap anymore, but $50K + is a lot of money for a Honda.
Having been such a Honda fan, the most frustrating thing to me is the arrogance of the Honda dealerships, at least here in the CO area. There’s not a one that doesn’t add some sort of option package and/or markups to pretty much each and every vehicle on the lot. And they act like they’re doing you a favor by only adding a few thousand to the MSRP. Type Rs I can almost understand. Civic Sis are starting to get ridiculous. But you’d be hard pressed to find a “regular” Civic without it being treated like some precious commodity.
All that makes me look at alternatives for my son, who has been drawn to the Civic for years now. Shame, given that my graduation car was the 1990 Civic Si and it’d be pretty cool for him to get into a Civic some 30 years later.
We had an unplanned return trip to the dealer for the RDX last week and within a month since I was there for a scheduled service their inventory has risen to levels not seen since 2020. The showroom is also full and nothing changed there since the last visit. While they don't add garbage, they are also still at MSRP on all inventory so I'm curious how long they'll maintain that stance. Even with a nominal discount Acura leases are awful these days so it's increasingly likely we look to other brands later this year, extend the lease, or buy it out.
As for Honda dealers I know of two locally that are at MSRP on Civic Si's, assuming they get them in. No clue on the Type R but I'd be surprised if there wasn't a markup.
1997 Honda Prelude Base - 2022 Acura MDX Type S Advance - 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off Road - 2006 BMW 330Ci ZHP
I can’t do the EQS. I’d love the thrill of the hack and the win for like a week. Then I’d remember I am stuck with driving a flashy jelly bean for 23 months and 3 weeks more.
@28firefighter said:
I can’t do the EQS. I’d love the thrill of the hack and the win for like a week. Then I’d remember I am stuck with driving a flashy jelly bean for 23 months and 3 weeks more.
Haven’t heard about the Y in awhile. Can we assume it’s staying?
24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
@stickguy said:
nice color. I wouldn't want to take that into a parking lot though.
Haha duallys aren’t that bad. Believe it or not they park pretty easily. They last one we had was in 2008 and it was a manual transmission which added to the fun of parking.
@rayains said:
akangl -
Congrats on the Silverado!
Best of luck with it!
Ray
WAY too big for me......
Thanks. It will be a yard ornament for the most part unless it’s needed for towing/hauling. Hubby has a work truck and I have the Q5.
It’s going to get a workout this summer, probably 15k-18k miles packed on it. Decided to take part of our planned L48 vacation after all since the RV fees were already paid. So will tour MT, WY, SD. Should be fun. Then goof around alaska the rest of the summer fishing and enjoying camping.
@28firefighter said:
I can’t do the EQS. I’d love the thrill of the hack and the win for like a week. Then I’d remember I am stuck with driving a flashy jelly bean for 23 months and 3 weeks more.
Haven’t heard about the Y in awhile. Can we assume it’s staying?
For sure. My wife loves it, it’s the perfect size and capability level for us, and it’s cheap as all get out to run.
The fact it has also depreciated like a rock thanks to Tesla’s price drop helps with dissuading me from making a change.
@28firefighter said:
I can’t do the EQS. I’d love the thrill of the hack and the win for like a week. Then I’d remember I am stuck with driving a flashy jelly bean for 23 months and 3 weeks more.
Haven’t heard about the Y in awhile. Can we assume it’s staying?
For sure. My wife loves it, it’s the perfect size and capability level for us, and it’s cheap as all get out to run.
The fact it has also depreciated like a rock thanks to Tesla’s price drop helps with dissuading me from making a change.
I haven’t been following Y values since we aren’t planning on moving ours. How bad is it? Did you ever get a number?
24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Come to my area. My son's fiancée just got a CRV sport hybrid (very rare still to have one on the lot). Paid straight sticker, no ADM, and no accessories tacked on).
I went to a different dealer to check one out (they had, well, 1) and same thing. They were selling for MSRP exactly, no adds unless you wanted them.
oh, NY still caps doc fees at something reasonable ($149 maybe?) so another savings. Just don't look at the sales tax line!
Last new car I bought the doc was $75 but I see they allowed it to go up to $175 in 2021. Sales tax ranges from almost 9% in NYC down to 7% in your county.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Comments
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
————————————————
C’mon man. Don’t let him talk you out of what you didn’t see so easily.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
That might not be the race car it would seem. The 5.0L back in 1992 put out 185hp in an F-150 (225hp in a Mustang). The 4.0L in a 2011 Ranger put out 207hp.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
The engine in that Ranger is a modified 5.0 out of an 89 Mustang.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The ability to truly order a BMW (and some other luxury makes) sets them apart from other manufacturers/dealers who don't have a formal ordering system, where it's largely up to individual dealerships to basically put your name down on an interest list, and then they might contact you when they happen to have an allocation.
I'd take the Civic Type R over the Integra Type S, but had no luck finding a Honda dealer who wasn't so arrogant as to not even accept a deposit, whereas the Acura dealership was fine doing so. Talk to a Toyota dealer about a manual Supra, and you might get on a list and the might contact you at some point. Same with the Z.
But while order slots are limited, you can walk into a BMW dealership and sign up to get an eventual order for an M2. Apparently a $10k markup on a Civic Type R is considered reasonable on various boards. Nissan Z's are obviously marked up several thousand dollars if available at all. And good luck finding a manual Supra for less than $60k. So an M2 for $65k MSRP? Not a bad deal to me.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Is the Civic R really that great at 10k over?
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Of course there are those who have to have it and nothing else, and pure supply helps keep the pricing tight, but most buyers, even those who are Honda fanatics, recognize what else you can buy when you start getting into the $50k’s.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Great explanation @breld I think you are spot on.
Check out this screenshot. Unicorn for sure… but wow
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Wow
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
They can’t make the EQS cheap enough to appeal to me.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Not my favorite either but for that payment…
Same broker that did my XC90 deal
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
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2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
All that makes me look at alternatives for my son, who has been drawn to the Civic for years now. Shame, given that my graduation car was the 1990 Civic Si and it’d be pretty cool for him to get into a Civic some 30 years later.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
And on their lot…
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I went to a different dealer to check one out (they had, well, 1) and same thing. They were selling for MSRP exactly, no adds unless you wanted them.
oh, NY still caps doc fees at something reasonable ($149 maybe?) so another savings. Just don't look at the sales tax line!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Saved some ink.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
As for Honda dealers I know of two locally that are at MSRP on Civic Si's, assuming they get them in. No clue on the Type R but I'd be surprised if there wasn't a markup.
I can’t do the EQS. I’d love the thrill of the hack and the win for like a week. Then I’d remember I am stuck with driving a flashy jelly bean for 23 months and 3 weeks more.
————————————————
What’s the markup for the additional unwanted body work?
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Many if not most cars these days are jelly beans or flashy jelly beans 😗.
5,555
- Ray
Still very pleased with my choice!
I hope you’re not going to tell us you did all of those 5,555 miles at 25.5 MPH.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Congrats on the Silverado!
Best of luck with it!
- Ray
WAY too big for me......
Only since last fill.
Only around town - no highway.
- Ray
Avg mph on highways is SOMEWHAT higher
I’ll take it you’re not Italian.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Haven’t heard about the Y in awhile. Can we assume it’s staying?
24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Haha duallys aren’t that bad. Believe it or not they park pretty easily. They last one we had was in 2008 and it was a manual transmission which added to the fun of parking.
Thanks. It will be a yard ornament for the most part unless it’s needed for towing/hauling. Hubby has a work truck and I have the Q5.
It’s going to get a workout this summer, probably 15k-18k miles packed on it. Decided to take part of our planned L48 vacation after all since the RV fees were already paid. So will tour MT, WY, SD. Should be fun. Then goof around alaska the rest of the summer fishing and enjoying camping.
So my fellow car geeks. If one (not me I swear) wants a sedan with some nice HP, used with low miles in the sub $50k range what would you suggest?
What size of a sedan? Small, medium, or large? Also, does it matter which wheels are powered?
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
For sure. My wife loves it, it’s the perfect size and capability level for us, and it’s cheap as all get out to run.
The fact it has also depreciated like a rock thanks to Tesla’s price drop helps with dissuading me from making a change.
He drives a fairly new BMW 330, not sure if it’s awd or not. He’s been looking at things like the Kia Stinger for example.
I haven’t been following Y values since we aren’t planning on moving ours. How bad is it? Did you ever get a number?
24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
He drives a fairly new BMW 330, not sure if it’s awd or not. He’s been looking at things like the Kia Stinger for example.
Our local casino in Saratoga is offering a Stinger as a door prize. Does he like to gamble?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible