I'm astounded it doesn't have an iPod jack as standard. Sure you didn't buy another '07? ;-)
I've never been a big fan of vent shades. They look particularly out of place on vehicles that have stainless trim framing the windows (not sure about this on a Pilot). Since my windows are almost always closed I never saw the point of them.
I think that used to be the case.... All-seasons on the AWD BMWs.. but, the extra sporty M-Sport package might have changed that....
I'm pretty sure that even X3s come with summer rubber when you go for the optional 19" wheel/tire package... Guess that doesn't matter in Southern Cal or Florida..
I noticed a couple of years ago, that a lot of current model, used X3s were for sale in the Chicago area with 19" tires/summer rubber.. I figured those were exec/employee cars out of NJ.. They load them up when they get the cars in March, and by the time the bad weather hits, they are turning them in for new cars in September.. I'd feel sorry for some unsuspecting Chicagoan that bought one of those in October, thinking they were ready to go in the snow!
I'm riding on winter tires that we used on my wife's old car for three seasons... I thought I'd get another season out of them, next year, but I notice I'm starting to generate a lot more wheelspin as this season goes on... Looks like I'll be in the market for a new set of winters, next Fall...
I think that used to be the case.... All-seasons on the AWD BMWs.. but, the extra sporty M-Sport package might have changed that....
My dealer has a gorgeous Monaco Blue/Gray 2008 335xi coupe with the Sport Package on the lot- and it has Conti SSR summer tires on it. If only it was a stick AND RWD...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I am liking the current generation 3 series more and more. And in about 8 years when I can finally justify a replacement car, they might be in my price range!
Summer rubber on an Xi just seems wrong, in four season country...
I'd say 95% of BMW AWD owners get AWD, just so they don't have to swap out for winter tires...
I will say this for the E90 AWD models, though... In normal everyday driving, you almost can't tell through the steering that they are AWD.. On the E46s, AWD models let you know about it, every turn of the wheel...
I will say this for the E90 AWD models, though... In normal everyday driving, you almost can't tell through the steering that they are AWD.. On the E46s, AWD models let you know about it, every turn of the wheel...
My Service Advisor used to have an E46 325xi, he referred to it as "The truck." He even talked me out of a clean 2004 E46 330Xi stick for that very reason- he knew I'd hate it. As for the E90 AWDs, I'm just not confident that the transfer case would stand up to several HPDE weekends every year...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Just pointing out that those owners aren't really missing out on the BMW feel, the way the E46 Xi drivers did.... or, at least....not to that degree...
a couple years ago I was looking at Infiniti G35s (the current body style). Being in NJ, everything on the lot was AWD, and I told the sales guy I really preferred RWD.
We had a long discussion about it, and he swore up and down that in normal driving, you could not tell the difference (on dry roads), but that there was a big difference in bad weather. That, and the MPG (real world) was pretty much the same (as in, it sucked gas either way).
I never did drive them back to back to tell, but I suspect that he was probably right, and either one was going to drive worlds better than a FWD Accord!
We need Qbrozen to weigh in on this since he owned a AWD G35 at one point.
As true running boards, they are about useless. The ARE very good at getting your pants dirty when they rub on them!
Just my not so humble opinion. Also, I find the window vent shades to be very distracting and of little value.
See, I'm just trying to save you a few bucks!
Kinda having second thoughts about the running boards now. I did find some side steps by Aries that were very nice and look quite sharp on a Pilot. I can get those and a sport bar shipped for less than the cost of the running boards installed at the dealer. I think I can get hubby to install them in the garage, although he'll protest I'm sure.
Reason I liked the premium running boards is they will block some of the spray up the side of the Pilot. My Pilot looks like its been run through a sand/salt pit right now, the roads are so sloppy here. It never can make up its mind what winter should be.
As for the vent shades, I've had them before on other vehicles and found them to be not too bad as far as wind noise and such. I use my windows all the time, even in the rain, so to me they are worth it. No, I'm not a smoker, just really enjoy having a window down a few inches no matter the weather.
I'm astounded it doesn't have an iPod jack as standard. Sure you didn't buy another '07?
Only way to get an iPod jack standard is to get the EX-L/Nav or the Touring, neither of which are sold in the state of Alaska since the Nav doesn't work here.
Lack of an iPod jack was one of the reason I shunned the '11 Pilot to begin with, it wasn't as easy as my '07 to get one......just replace the stereo. The AUX jack in the Pilot is worthless since the cord doesn't like to stay plugged in.
The Acadia had an iPod jack and a few other little things I really liked, but after riding in it with hubby driving I couldn't do it. I would always have to drive to avoid getting car sick and I don't like driving all the time. I hadn't even thought of that issue when I agreed to buy the Acadia, it wasn't until we drove it the second time and I insisted hubby drive that I noticed it. Course right after that the GM basically walked that deal right out the door.
I have to admit, I drove a rwd and the x-drive and could not tell the difference.
My car is a sedan 335, loaded with everything but a heated steering wheel (can't get it with the m-sport), and it's a stick. It's our first BMW and I'm coming out of a G sedan (current body style) with awd and the sport package. The BMW doesn't feel as quick off the line (could be my driving though) but is balanced unlike anything I've driven.
I'm not too concerned with buying a winter tire package, typically you'll need to put on new tires during or at the very end of the lease. I can always use the oem tire package if I get another 3series, or easily sell them on eBay or a bimmer site.
I was told that BMW puts summer tires on all the sport packaged cars. Since the tire is the only part of the car that touches the road, if the tires can't grip, it really doesn't matter if you have awd.
And I have no complaints whatsoever about the way it drives - now understand, I'm coming from a 2009 Subaru Legacy, and before that a 2001 Ford Taurus. Pretty big change. I love my car.
I've been putting the monthly payments I was paying on the Subaru every month for the past 6 months or so. Have a nice pot going, and am going to put it towards a bunch of preventative maintenance on it come the end of this month. Most likely Engine Mounts, Transmission Flush, a new MAF, and possibly some suspension work after this winter with the wonderful pittsburgh roads.
Back to lurking...
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
I never did drive them back to back to tell, but I suspect that he was probably right, and either one was going to drive worlds better than a FWD Accord! We need Qbrozen to weigh in on this since he owned a AWD G35 at one point.
I never drove a RWD G and AWD G back to back, either. But I did drive the AWD G back to back with my Accord 6-speed, and, yes, without a shadow of a doubt, the G was far superior! ;b
The AWD thing really is a trade-off. If give the choice, however, moving forward, I opt for non-AWD. It just isn't worth it, IMHO. I had standard all-season tires on the G and it was still lousy in the snow. There definitely is a gas mileage penalty, and the extra weight really hurts the performance.
On the other hand, an AWD car with a RWD bias (eg, the G and bimmer) can give you some entertainment that other cars can't. For example, autocrossing the G was an experience. Being so damned heavy, it never stood much of a chance, but what it was good for was point and shoot action. It was so good at masking incompetence. You could just stomp on the gas at any point in a turn and have traction, then stomp on the brakes and let the ABS do its thing. Just an easy car to drive fast. No real skill involved. The more experienced folks were always impressed with how a 3750-lb limo could hustle around the cones as well as it did.
The salesperson is full of it, frankly, though. You most certainly can tell the difference. I never would have been able to drive a RWD so carelessly and get away with it. However, with alot of practice, I bet a RWD one would have been faster around the course.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
As I'm sure you must be able to appreciate, there are winter tire'd 2 WD snow covered hills to get into one's driveway, and then there are hills, that laugh at anything less than AWD. Especially if it's mild out or breaking trail into 4+". This is especially true with 2 wheel RWD, and lighter aluminum block engines on FWD cars, and especially LWB minivans. Your passengers give you a bad look when you ask all but the front seat pass to get out so you can get up the hill. :sick:
I live on one of those AWD only hills. But I will say that i got my old GF's early 90's V6 Gr Prix up my hill most times. It was the BEST 2 wd car I have ever driven for go in the snow. It was that very heavy V6 sitting cantilevered out over the front axle. Almost a night and day difference to the same car with the 4 cyl in it.
Anyway, all that said, I know you guys were talking mainly about fair weather handling differences with RWD/FWD vs AWD drive. But there sure is a place in the world for AWD vehicles, providing they are in responsible hands.. And we know that doesn't always happen as there is a joke in these parts about Ford Explorers. They are always the first ones up against the guardrails with the first storm of the season every year..lol.
I notice the same thing with SUVs. As I always tell people, it doesn't matter how many wheels are turning if you can't get traction. And we ALL have 4-wheel stopping, so once you get going, the number of drive wheels on a flat highway means nothing.
And as far as places you NEED AWD, I have no doubt that is true, but then you also NEED snow tires in those places. RWD + snow tires still trumps AWD and crappy all seasons.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
My FWD Accord w/all seasons does much better going backwards in deep (+5" or so) snow than forward. For whatever reason, they stopped plowing our cul-de-sac so its a matter of putting it in reverse, gunning the puppy out of the driveway, and trying not to let off until I get to a cleared street. The wife's Subaru Legacy wagon w/ Dunlop WinterSport 3Ds has no trouble with the cul-de-sac, the freeway, or anything else that may or may not have snow on it. Next year's budget has some $$ for snow tires for my car too. This is ridiculous.
I got out of a sand pit kind of road in a FWD rental Neon one time by going backwards for what felt like a quarter of a mile. My neck was sore for a week. :shades:
Best snow car I ever had was shod with all season tires and wasn't my 4WD CJ-5 or my AWD Outback.
On the flip side, I remember years ago, when I lived with my grandparents, trying to get my '69 Dart GT up the hill of their driveway in the snow. Going forward, it just spun out, but then I turned it around, and backed up the driveway, and it did just fine! :confuse:
took the wife on an outing to the Philly car show today. She mostly was checking out the options in SUV/wagon type vehicles.
Me, I want a Fiat 500. bad. She thinks I am nuts. She is probably right.
anyway, she seems to have good (or at least expensive tastes). The stuff that she liked included the Cayanne, Ford Edge, BMW X3 (that was very nice), Volvo XC60, Audi A5 and the Hyundai Sante Fe. sube outback was OK, but the seat cushion was way too short for me.
in cars, I really like the Focus, but that you couldn't get up close to that one or in it. The Optima was also extremely nice. Firm seats, but comfortable. And the G25 was a very nice piece.
At the VW stand, the Jetta was a disappointment. At least the lower level I sat in reminded me of a toyota, and not in a good way. No way did it seem like a German car.
Not, the passat I really liked. Classy looking (much nicer than the last model) and seemed to have a very nice interior. Not sure what it would go for, but it was a 2.5l SEL.
one thing for sure though is that VW needs to bring over better engines. the 2.0t is sweet, but the NA 4s are way out of date!
I've seen a few new Jettas on the road around town and they already look passe to me. Really generic styling, nothing to make then stand out. They will be totally Corollanonymous in a few years.
With several BMW owners on here, I thought I'd ask a question regarding the optional maintenance plan on our used 328xi we just purchased. Within the next 6k miles or so, we can purchase the plan for $2,095, which will cover all the routine maintenance (same as what BMW covers for the initial 4 year/50k) for the next 2 years or 50k miles.
Seems like we're better off paying as we go, and the total over those two years is likely to be no more, and likely less, than the cost of the plan. But thought I'd see what others here think or have experienced for that period between 50k miles and 100k miles on a BMW.
one thing for sure though is that VW needs to bring over better engines. the 2.0t is sweet, but the NA 4s are way out of date!
Yeah, that 2.0t is a great engine. My fiance had that in her previous Jetta, with a 6-speed manual, and it was a hoot to drive. Kinda makes me want to look at GTIs as our eventual fun car.
I don't believe they're offering that engine in the new Passat, which is disappointing. Seems like such a gem for a base engine.
What mileage do you expect to reach before expiration?
Also, $2095 is the list price, I think (at least, it was last April). Almost any dealer will drop $200 off that ($500 spread over cost)... You might find a dealer to even drop $300-$350. You can buy it from any BMW dealer, with the caveat that they need one of your keys to do a mileage read, on the same day the contract is written. (I had to fedex my key to the dealer I bought from).
Haven't driven the car since last week due to a medical procedure but there still is a small leak. Guess we'll just monitor it for the time being. Not happy, but I'll adjust. All this talk about BMW's is fun to read. I was very impressed with the MB C class that I drove earlier in the year and just am wondering how a BMW compares? But in reality, cars in this price point are just out of our range. Did get a good look at a RX330 yesterday and it would fit the bill perfectly, but probably ain't gonna happen either.
Luckily I can live vicariously by reading all the posts in this forum. Sure is nice to dream though!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Having just sat in a lot of stuff yesterday (and I am getting over a lower lumbar strain, so it was a good test for back friendlienss!) the upcoming Passat (easily available I would guess in the low-mid 20s) - if you don't mind a VW - was very comfy.
more pricy, but the Infiniti G25 has some of the best seats around IMO. Always feel great to me even before adjusting to dial thm in. The G25 is only available new at this point, but is way cheaper than, and IMO every bit as nice as, a C class ( I love the way they look, but the interior always disappoints me).
also, not sure what your back wants, but try out a Kia Optima if you have a chance (might be bigger than you want though). The seats are firm, in a Germanic way, but felt good to me (very supportive) and well shaped. And for you hot weather people, complete with seat coolers!
What mileage do you expect to reach before expiration?
With the work commute we have, we will likely put close to the full 50k miles (for a total of 100k) by the expiration of the two year maintenance plan. It would seem that makes it more worth it, assuming the maintenance is more mileage driven versus passage of time driven, right?
With this talk of VWs, I was wondering what others think of the new design direction on the recently released Jetta and upcoming Passat?
It seems the majority of folks feel the new designs are plain and boring, but I actually like them (having only seen the Jetta in person of course). They remind me of what VW did with the Passat back in 1998. I remember thinking at the time how plain of a design it was, but I think the "classic-ness" endured well (to the point that I did own a 2000 model).
It will be interesting to see if the Passat can recapture some of its desirability over the Accord/Camry/Altima. I didn't realize the base price had crept up so much to its current levels (something like $27k?).
That 2000 model I owned was a GLX V6 (if I remember right, it was the same 2.8l from the A4) with the 5-speed manual. That was a real nice alternative to the other family sedans available at the time. Since then, like the other manufacturers, they slowly eliminated the manual trannies from all but the base models.
having seen them side by side yesterday, for some reason the Passat I liked and the Jetta I didn't.
not sure why, but 2 things come to mind. 1) the Jetta looks "stretched" (like they tried to make a smaller car bigger), and it just didn't quite work. Plus, the details are cheaper, and the interior let it down. Just overall, it seemed like a new, slightly larger, Corolla (and no, that is not a compliment).
the passat though seemed well proportioned, and somewhat elegant or classy. The interior also matched the car. I guess you could say it felt right sized.
I think VW design has taken a step back. I thought so on the latest GTI, too. IMHO, I have the best looking GTI generation to date ('06-'09). And the outgoing Jetta and Passat are the best looking gens to date of those cars.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
the 2.0T is optional at some point. Not sure though if the specs are out on line yet, or when the car is showing up.
I actualy disagree about the styling. IMO, the best looking for each were the ones before the recently departing. The last gens got a little overdone and disjointed (the Passat much more so than the Jetta). Excpet for the wagons, those looked good! And to me, the Passat looks more like the 2 gen back Model.
same deal with BMW. the late 90s/early 00s 3 series and 5 series were the best looking ever, and the mid-late versions of both were a step back. And the design philosophy of both makers seemed to do the same thing.
but as always, to each his own!
Oh, for the GTI, I like the latest version just as much, though I only really notice the difference with the grille. Just don't see that much of a difference. I do hate the wheels though (especially the 18's). Look cartoonish to me.
the 2.0T is optional at some point. Not sure though if the specs are out on line yet, or when the car is showing up.
VW's website has a blurb on the 2012 Passat, and they're saying it will be available with three engines, the 2.5l, the VR6 and a TDI. So no mention yet of a 2.0T being available.
I'm sure it's to keep the entry cost down on the base model, but it seems like VW has been making that 2.0t (and 1.8t before it) forever - can it really be that costly? Seems like the 4-cyl models on other family sedans are getting closer to the 200 hp mark - the 2.5l in this new Passat doesn't seem very competitive. And generally, the jump in price to the VR6 has been quite significant.
I am always a little surprised when I read about continued quest for more power when speed limits and people's weights and towing loads are basically the same now as 30-40 years ago. Granted, ongoing safety additions have added about 500 lbs, but engine output in hp and torque has still very impressively increased in the last 15 to 20 years. We have 2 to 2.5 litre 4 bangers putting out as much hp and torque now as small V8 did those few short years ago. Some 4 cyl are doing almost 200 hp..NA even.
IMO, 170 hp and 170 ft-lb of torque in 3200 lb cars are really not too shabby. Of course the vast majority of sales is auto now and they camouflage torque quite/too well.
FWIW, any turbo in any car, but especially gas, do add a fair amount of $ content, both to build the car, but to warranty it after. While I feel turbos are a great compromise to cubes in order to give good urge and also meet ever stringent fuel ratings, there are other things at play with the newer tech engines. Direct injection has helped some of the smaller gas engines deliver impressive torque/hp and on less fuel. But our gas is the weak spot. We have terrible gas here, and I heard they are going to up ethanol content to 20% soon. :sick: And it costs money to build, meet emissions and wty these new engines, and crappy gas just complicates those measures. I will admit that VW's old 2.0 NA 8 valve engine is probably in over its head with an auto, A/C on and a car load of 5 people in the new Jetta, but the best way to inject more go and economy with that combo would be to forgo the auto. The 2.5 has pretty fair torque and most of it (prior to peak) is at very usable real world rpms, so I don't envision it being that much of a slug in the Passat.
Don't you think it is amazing the shear number of random everyday vehicles (like family minivans and mid sized SUV's and many sedans) that we buy, have over 300 hp and almost as much torque?
I think it is merely human nature though to get accustomed to 'new and improved' and we become conditioned. It just wasn't that long ago the most common sized TV screen in the nations living rooms was 26". Now they laugh at you if you walk out with anything less than a 42". (I let them laugh and am quite happy with my 32").
That's about where my '99 Quest is - 170 hp and 200 ft-lbs of torque. It feels about ideal for that van, and I've gotten as high as 29 mpg in it. Weighs about 4,000 pounds.
The Passats were locked at the Detroit Show the day I was there. I talked to an older gentleman sitting in a Jetta and he liked it fine. He'd had two other ones over the previous ten or fifteen years.
one thing for sure though is that VW needs to bring over better engines. the 2.0t is sweet, but the NA 4s are way out of date!
All I've got is anecdotal evidence, but I don't think the 2.0T is a stout engine. There are lots of reports of engine failures on these puppies, and not just from the distant past, when they were known to be bad.... like the '97 A4 quattro that blew up on my boss after 40k or so... the dealer-maintained-on-schedule A4, mind you.
It's not that it's terribly likely it'll blowup, but it happens more frequently than other engines, and then it gets pricey in a hurry.
I've driven it in the 170 hp version with a stick and it's a very together powerplant, I agree, but I don't think I'd want to own one out of warranty... just cuz I'd kick myself for a long time, since I "should" have known.
I know! I have heard someone rule out a particular car merely because it didn't have a USB adapter! Which you can buy and plug into your 12 volt access plug for about 12 bucks or less. Same with Bluetooth phone use. There are a pile of affordable aftermkt options out there that some of them even work better than OEM, overpriced units.
Comments
I've never been a big fan of vent shades. They look particularly out of place on vehicles that have stainless trim framing the windows (not sure about this on a Pilot). Since my windows are almost always closed I never saw the point of them.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
And they add wind noise. Probably cause more aero drag too.
I'm pretty sure that even X3s come with summer rubber when you go for the optional 19" wheel/tire package... Guess that doesn't matter in Southern Cal or Florida..
I noticed a couple of years ago, that a lot of current model, used X3s were for sale in the Chicago area with 19" tires/summer rubber.. I figured those were exec/employee cars out of NJ.. They load them up when they get the cars in March, and by the time the bad weather hits, they are turning them in for new cars in September.. I'd feel sorry for some unsuspecting Chicagoan that bought one of those in October, thinking they were ready to go in the snow!
I'm riding on winter tires that we used on my wife's old car for three seasons... I thought I'd get another season out of them, next year, but I notice I'm starting to generate a lot more wheelspin as this season goes on... Looks like I'll be in the market for a new set of winters, next Fall...
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As true running boards, they are about useless. The ARE very good at getting your pants dirty when they rub on them!
Just my not so humble opinion. Also, I find the window vent shades to be very distracting and of little value.
See, I'm just trying to save you a few bucks!
My dealer has a gorgeous Monaco Blue/Gray 2008 335xi coupe with the Sport Package on the lot- and it has Conti SSR summer tires on it. If only it was a stick AND RWD...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I am liking the current generation 3 series more and more. And in about 8 years when I can finally justify a replacement car, they might be in my price range!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'd say 95% of BMW AWD owners get AWD, just so they don't have to swap out for winter tires...
I will say this for the E90 AWD models, though... In normal everyday driving, you almost can't tell through the steering that they are AWD.. On the E46s, AWD models let you know about it, every turn of the wheel...
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My Service Advisor used to have an E46 325xi, he referred to it as "The truck." He even talked me out of a clean 2004 E46 330Xi stick for that very reason- he knew I'd hate it.
As for the E90 AWDs, I'm just not confident that the transfer case would stand up to several HPDE weekends every year...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Just pointing out that those owners aren't really missing out on the BMW feel, the way the E46 Xi drivers did.... or, at least....not to that degree...
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We had a long discussion about it, and he swore up and down that in normal driving, you could not tell the difference (on dry roads), but that there was a big difference in bad weather. That, and the MPG (real world) was pretty much the same (as in, it sucked gas either way).
I never did drive them back to back to tell, but I suspect that he was probably right, and either one was going to drive worlds better than a FWD Accord!
We need Qbrozen to weigh in on this since he owned a AWD G35 at one point.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
As true running boards, they are about useless. The ARE very good at getting your pants dirty when they rub on them!
Just my not so humble opinion. Also, I find the window vent shades to be very distracting and of little value.
See, I'm just trying to save you a few bucks!
Kinda having second thoughts about the running boards now. I did find some side steps by Aries that were very nice and look quite sharp on a Pilot. I can get those and a sport bar shipped for less than the cost of the running boards installed at the dealer. I think I can get hubby to install them in the garage, although he'll protest I'm sure.
Reason I liked the premium running boards is they will block some of the spray up the side of the Pilot. My Pilot looks like its been run through a sand/salt pit right now, the roads are so sloppy here. It never can make up its mind what winter should be.
As for the vent shades, I've had them before on other vehicles and found them to be not too bad as far as wind noise and such. I use my windows all the time, even in the rain, so to me they are worth it. No, I'm not a smoker, just really enjoy having a window down a few inches no matter the weather.
Only way to get an iPod jack standard is to get the EX-L/Nav or the Touring, neither of which are sold in the state of Alaska since the Nav doesn't work here.
Lack of an iPod jack was one of the reason I shunned the '11 Pilot to begin with, it wasn't as easy as my '07 to get one......just replace the stereo. The AUX jack in the Pilot is worthless since the cord doesn't like to stay plugged in.
The Acadia had an iPod jack and a few other little things I really liked, but after riding in it with hubby driving I couldn't do it. I would always have to drive to avoid getting car sick and I don't like driving all the time. I hadn't even thought of that issue when I agreed to buy the Acadia, it wasn't until we drove it the second time and I insisted hubby drive that I noticed it. Course right after that the GM basically walked that deal right out the door.
My car is a sedan 335, loaded with everything but a heated steering wheel (can't get it with the m-sport), and it's a stick. It's our first BMW and I'm coming out of a G sedan (current body style) with awd and the sport package. The BMW doesn't feel as quick off the line (could be my driving though) but is balanced unlike anything I've driven.
I'm not too concerned with buying a winter tire package, typically you'll need to put on new tires during or at the very end of the lease. I can always use the oem tire package if I get another 3series, or easily sell them on eBay or a bimmer site.
I was told that BMW puts summer tires on all the sport packaged cars. Since the tire is the only part of the car that touches the road, if the tires can't grip, it really doesn't matter if you have awd.
I've been putting the monthly payments I was paying on the Subaru every month for the past 6 months or so. Have a nice pot going, and am going to put it towards a bunch of preventative maintenance on it come the end of this month. Most likely Engine Mounts, Transmission Flush, a new MAF, and possibly some suspension work after this winter with the wonderful pittsburgh roads.
Back to lurking...
We need Qbrozen to weigh in on this since he owned a AWD G35 at one point.
I never drove a RWD G and AWD G back to back, either. But I did drive the AWD G back to back with my Accord 6-speed, and, yes, without a shadow of a doubt, the G was far superior! ;b
The AWD thing really is a trade-off. If give the choice, however, moving forward, I opt for non-AWD. It just isn't worth it, IMHO. I had standard all-season tires on the G and it was still lousy in the snow. There definitely is a gas mileage penalty, and the extra weight really hurts the performance.
On the other hand, an AWD car with a RWD bias (eg, the G and bimmer) can give you some entertainment that other cars can't. For example, autocrossing the G was an experience. Being so damned heavy, it never stood much of a chance, but what it was good for was point and shoot action. It was so good at masking incompetence. You could just stomp on the gas at any point in a turn and have traction, then stomp on the brakes and let the ABS do its thing. Just an easy car to drive fast. No real skill involved. The more experienced folks were always impressed with how a 3750-lb limo could hustle around the cones as well as it did.
The salesperson is full of it, frankly, though. You most certainly can tell the difference. I never would have been able to drive a RWD so carelessly and get away with it. However, with alot of practice, I bet a RWD one would have been faster around the course.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
This is especially true with 2 wheel RWD, and lighter aluminum block engines on FWD cars, and especially LWB minivans. Your passengers give you a bad look when you ask all but the front seat pass to get out so you can get up the hill. :sick:
I live on one of those AWD only hills. But I will say that i got my old GF's early 90's V6 Gr Prix up my hill most times. It was the BEST 2 wd car I have ever driven for go in the snow. It was that very heavy V6 sitting cantilevered out over the front axle. Almost a night and day difference to the same car with the 4 cyl in it.
Anyway, all that said, I know you guys were talking mainly about fair weather handling differences with RWD/FWD vs AWD drive.
But there sure is a place in the world for AWD vehicles, providing they are in responsible hands..
And we know that doesn't always happen as there is a joke in these parts about Ford Explorers. They are always the first ones up against the guardrails with the first storm of the season every year..lol.
And as far as places you NEED AWD, I have no doubt that is true, but then you also NEED snow tires in those places. RWD + snow tires still trumps AWD and crappy all seasons.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
"RWD + snow tires still trumps AWD and crappy all seasons"
That may be true for cornering and braking and displacing water/slush, but for 'go', nothing..no tire on earth can trump AWD.
As those pics I sent will support.
The wife's Subaru Legacy wagon w/ Dunlop WinterSport 3Ds has no trouble with the cul-de-sac, the freeway, or anything else that may or may not have snow on it.
Next year's budget has some $$ for snow tires for my car too. This is ridiculous.
Best snow car I ever had was shod with all season tires and wasn't my 4WD CJ-5 or my AWD Outback.
It was a 70-something SuperBeetle.
Me, I want a Fiat 500. bad. She thinks I am nuts. She is probably right.
anyway, she seems to have good (or at least expensive tastes). The stuff that she liked included the Cayanne, Ford Edge, BMW X3 (that was very nice), Volvo XC60, Audi A5 and the Hyundai Sante Fe. sube outback was OK, but the seat cushion was way too short for me.
in cars, I really like the Focus, but that you couldn't get up close to that one or in it. The Optima was also extremely nice. Firm seats, but comfortable. And the G25 was a very nice piece.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
At the VW stand, the Jetta was a disappointment. At least the lower level I sat in reminded me of a toyota, and not in a good way. No way did it seem like a German car.
Not, the passat I really liked. Classy looking (much nicer than the last model) and seemed to have a very nice interior. Not sure what it would go for, but it was a 2.5l SEL.
one thing for sure though is that VW needs to bring over better engines. the 2.0t is sweet, but the NA 4s are way out of date!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Seems like we're better off paying as we go, and the total over those two years is likely to be no more, and likely less, than the cost of the plan. But thought I'd see what others here think or have experienced for that period between 50k miles and 100k miles on a BMW.
Thanks,
Bruce
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Yeah, that 2.0t is a great engine. My fiance had that in her previous Jetta, with a 6-speed manual, and it was a hoot to drive. Kinda makes me want to look at GTIs as our eventual fun car.
I don't believe they're offering that engine in the new Passat, which is disappointing. Seems like such a gem for a base engine.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Also, $2095 is the list price, I think (at least, it was last April). Almost any dealer will drop $200 off that ($500 spread over cost)... You might find a dealer to even drop $300-$350. You can buy it from any BMW dealer, with the caveat that they need one of your keys to do a mileage read, on the same day the contract is written. (I had to fedex my key to the dealer I bought from).
regards,
kyfdx
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Actually, it is the base engine in the Passat, as well as the CC, Tiguan, A4, A6, and probably several more.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
what does this mean? they can tell your mileage by your key? So they would not believe you (or another dealer) if they were told the mileage?
Luckily I can live vicariously by reading all the posts in this forum. Sure is nice to dream though!
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
The SEL I saw in philly was not, I assume, the losest level (seemed to have some decent optins on it) but it did have the 2.5L in it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Having just sat in a lot of stuff yesterday (and I am getting over a lower lumbar strain, so it was a good test for back friendlienss!) the upcoming Passat (easily available I would guess in the low-mid 20s) - if you don't mind a VW - was very comfy.
more pricy, but the Infiniti G25 has some of the best seats around IMO. Always feel great to me even before adjusting to dial thm in. The G25 is only available new at this point, but is way cheaper than, and IMO every bit as nice as, a C class ( I love the way they look, but the interior always disappoints me).
also, not sure what your back wants, but try out a Kia Optima if you have a chance (might be bigger than you want though). The seats are firm, in a Germanic way, but felt good to me (very supportive) and well shaped. And for you hot weather people, complete with seat coolers!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
With the work commute we have, we will likely put close to the full 50k miles (for a total of 100k) by the expiration of the two year maintenance plan. It would seem that makes it more worth it, assuming the maintenance is more mileage driven versus passage of time driven, right?
Thanks for the advice on the pricing of the plan.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
It seems the majority of folks feel the new designs are plain and boring, but I actually like them (having only seen the Jetta in person of course). They remind me of what VW did with the Passat back in 1998. I remember thinking at the time how plain of a design it was, but I think the "classic-ness" endured well (to the point that I did own a 2000 model).
It will be interesting to see if the Passat can recapture some of its desirability over the Accord/Camry/Altima. I didn't realize the base price had crept up so much to its current levels (something like $27k?).
That 2000 model I owned was a GLX V6 (if I remember right, it was the same 2.8l from the A4) with the 5-speed manual. That was a real nice alternative to the other family sedans available at the time. Since then, like the other manufacturers, they slowly eliminated the manual trannies from all but the base models.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
not sure why, but 2 things come to mind. 1) the Jetta looks "stretched" (like they tried to make a smaller car bigger), and it just didn't quite work. Plus, the details are cheaper, and the interior let it down. Just overall, it seemed like a new, slightly larger, Corolla (and no, that is not a compliment).
the passat though seemed well proportioned, and somewhat elegant or classy. The interior also matched the car. I guess you could say it felt right sized.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I actualy disagree about the styling. IMO, the best looking for each were the ones before the recently departing. The last gens got a little overdone and disjointed (the Passat much more so than the Jetta). Excpet for the wagons, those looked good! And to me, the Passat looks more like the 2 gen back Model.
same deal with BMW. the late 90s/early 00s 3 series and 5 series were the best looking ever, and the mid-late versions of both were a step back. And the design philosophy of both makers seemed to do the same thing.
but as always, to each his own!
Oh, for the GTI, I like the latest version just as much, though I only really notice the difference with the grille. Just don't see that much of a difference. I do hate the wheels though (especially the 18's). Look cartoonish to me.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I like the bigger headlights on mine, too.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I was very impressed with the Optima at the show.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
VW's website has a blurb on the 2012 Passat, and they're saying it will be available with three engines, the 2.5l, the VR6 and a TDI. So no mention yet of a 2.0T being available.
I'm sure it's to keep the entry cost down on the base model, but it seems like VW has been making that 2.0t (and 1.8t before it) forever - can it really be that costly? Seems like the 4-cyl models on other family sedans are getting closer to the 200 hp mark - the 2.5l in this new Passat doesn't seem very competitive. And generally, the jump in price to the VR6 has been quite significant.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
I would do a TDI, but the price premium is usually pretty steep.
I wonder how that 5 cyl will do in a car like the passat?
maybe there will be a wolfsburg type model at some point with the 2.0.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
IMO, 170 hp and 170 ft-lb of torque in 3200 lb cars are really not too shabby. Of course the vast majority of sales is auto now and they camouflage torque quite/too well.
FWIW, any turbo in any car, but especially gas, do add a fair amount of $ content, both to build the car, but to warranty it after. While I feel turbos are a great compromise to cubes in order to give good urge and also meet ever stringent fuel ratings, there are other things at play with the newer tech engines. Direct injection has helped some of the smaller gas engines deliver impressive torque/hp and on less fuel. But our gas is the weak spot. We have terrible gas here, and I heard they are going to up ethanol content to 20% soon.
And it costs money to build, meet emissions and wty these new engines, and crappy gas just complicates those measures. I will admit that VW's old 2.0 NA 8 valve engine is probably in over its head with an auto, A/C on and a car load of 5 people in the new Jetta, but the best way to inject more go and economy with that combo would be to forgo the auto. The 2.5 has pretty fair torque and most of it (prior to peak) is at very usable real world rpms, so I don't envision it being that much of a slug in the Passat.
Don't you think it is amazing the shear number of random everyday vehicles (like family minivans and mid sized SUV's and many sedans) that we buy, have over 300 hp and almost as much torque?
I think it is merely human nature though to get accustomed to 'new and improved' and we become conditioned. It just wasn't that long ago the most common sized TV screen in the nations living rooms was 26". Now they laugh at you if you walk out with anything less than a 42". (I let them laugh and am quite happy with my 32").
Ah well...it's the world we seem to have.
The Passats were locked at the Detroit Show the day I was there. I talked to an older gentleman sitting in a Jetta and he liked it fine. He'd had two other ones over the previous ten or fifteen years.
All I've got is anecdotal evidence, but I don't think the 2.0T is a stout engine. There are lots of reports of engine failures on these puppies, and not just from the distant past, when they were known to be bad.... like the '97 A4 quattro that blew up on my boss after 40k or so... the dealer-maintained-on-schedule A4, mind you.
It's not that it's terribly likely it'll blowup, but it happens more frequently than other engines, and then it gets pricey in a hurry.
I've driven it in the 170 hp version with a stick and it's a very together powerplant, I agree, but I don't think I'd want to own one out of warranty... just cuz I'd kick myself for a long time, since I "should" have known.
Always the grinch, I remain,
-Mathias
Same with Bluetooth phone use. There are a pile of affordable aftermkt options out there that some of them even work better than OEM, overpriced units.