I used to have that car -- 2000 Villager -- and the powertrain was the best thing about it. Perfectly matched engine/transmission, good pickup, good gas mileage.
200 lbs is very usable in a vehicle like the Villager/Quest as you guys just confirmed. Pretty good mileage too at 29..
Not sure the generation to which you both were referring, but I remember the first ones shared Nissan's 3 litre V6. Good engines (I think on Ward's list for years) but seems to me they used to break exhaust manifolds a bit too early. I stand to be corrected maybe but i think that was their (only) weak spot.
I know it would not have stopped me from buying one had i been in the mkt back then. AAMOF, had they been AWD, it would have made my short list. At the time MPV had retired their old 3 litre AWD for the new one with Ford's (smooth) 2.5 V6.
I had a 1999 Quest (same style as Steve's), and it was plenty peppy enough. But I never got near 29MPG with it! ANd yeah, that was a stout powertrain. Lot's of rattles though. Proably should have kept it longer, but the wife was tired of it. I think, or I got antsy? Must have been some reason!
And Gimme, this version has the 3.3l V6 (basically a truck engine). The earlie 3.0l was a VQ 9I think they were VQ then), but basically the 3.0l out of the Maxima. the 3.3 was definitley not was refined, but probably way better suited to minivan duty.
that replaced my 1996 Voyager (SWB). That had the 3.3l Chrysler V6, with a whopping 150 (or 155) HP, but I think 220 on torque. Felt like a hot rod compared to the 1992 Subaru Legacy it replaced!
A 1997 A4 would have had the 1.8T engine. Not sure how related it is to the 2.0T. The 1.8T was plagued with coil pack and oil consumption issues. I always thought the 1.8T had pretty bad turbo lag, which wasn't as present in the 2.0T.
as corvette said, they are different engines. In addition to the problems he lists, the 1.8T also had sludge issues.... but that was helped along by owners who didn't use synthetic and change it as often as they should.
So far, the 2.0T has been a pretty reliable engine for the most part.
There have been some issues of heads/cams being torn up thanks to a poorly designed cam follower for the HPFP. But for all those who know about it, it is a cheap and easy maintenance item. Unfortunately, not everyone knows about it. That is probably the problems you've heard about.
The 2.0T is quite a gem, really. Just torque all over the rev band. It puts out more than VW claims. I think this is obvious from comparison tests when you see it running to 60 faster than vehicles with more power, but it has also been shown by independent owner dyno tests. My only complaint, as I've thrown around these forums before, is that the mileage isn't as high as I think it should be. I used to get just as good in my 280hp 350Z and far better in my 244hp V6 Accord.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I really liked the 2010 passat wagon. Tried to buy one actually last summer but could only find black interior locally. Not in St. Louis in the summer. There were others they could have had shipped in but they really weren't interested. The car drove like a dream--solid and quick with typically german suspension. What killed the deal was interior color choice and the seat belt insertion deally on the driver side. It was attached to a rigid pipe that had no movement. It tended to press into my right hip unless I kept scootched to the left. The passenger coupler was flexible and would conform to your seated position like every other car. I'll be interested what the new model has to offer in a few years.
1) Yes, BMW service department sticks your key in the key reader and it gives them the mileage off the car.. Trust? You have problems with the brakes at 52K miles.. The service guy says, "$800 to do the brakes, or you can buy the extended maintenance (which you chose not to do) for $2000, and then that $800 service at 60K will be covered, too... plus, anything else that comes up". Betting that happened more than once...
2) breld... if you'll get 90K or more out of the maintenance plan, thats probably three services, plus probably brakes... If you can get $200-$300 off list, it will probably pay off, if you have a CPO car, you are going to the dealer, anyway.. If your car was going out of warranty, and you were using an independent for service, then I wouldn't do it..
3) Early A4s with the 1.8T engine were dogs.... pair that with a slushbox, and 4-cylinder Accords are eating your lunch.. A stick and V-6, though...and, they weren't bad.. But, the 2.0T is an awesome engine....
The BMW went into transmission "limp home" mode today driving home from school after a very loud "thunk". Pulled over, turned off the car, turned it back on and it was okay save for almost no low end torque and a horrible whining noise.
Nursed it to the mechanic who it drove perfectly for, but he said likely the transmission is toast. The car has a powertrain warranty for 6 more days, and he is going to look at it on Wednesday. Called the warranty company, and they said they will only cover up to $60/hr in labor rate plus parts for a used transmission. My mechanic is more than that. In case that wasn't bad enough, while he was under the hood, we discovered a Valve Cover Gasket leak - another $800 not covered under the warranty.
I'm at a complete loss. Will know more Wednesday after he is able to determine what exactly went wrong. In the mean time, I'm looking at 0 down leases. Suggestions for something with maintenance included?
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
I had a 1999 Quest (same style as Steve's), and it was plenty peppy enough. But I never got near 29MPG with it!
You probably changed the oil too often instead of waiting to 8 or 10,000 miles like I do. Mine got broken in real good. :P
I only hit 29 three times in 150k and was really bummed the one time that I got a 29.9 tank. Just couldn't quite squeeze 30 mpg out of it.
They were great engines and spent ten years I think on Ward's list. I think it's the same one as in the Pathfinder, but Ford made Nissan tweak them a bit to make them non-interference engines. I'm still on the original timing belt.
And yeah, the first generation had manifold bolt issues.
Not seriously looking as decided to not retire but go out on OWCP since I got hurt on the job. $ will be a bit tight until I get approved since there will be a time with no paycheck. The $ that I'm due from my dad is tied up with siblings screwing with me, so no car yet. The wife will come 1st though as her car hit 86k yesterday & since we buy our own cars now, she's next.
Really do need the compact size for my side of the garage. So for a couple of years the Civic will have to stay. By that time, my son should be out of St. Louis and he really wants the Civic. Won't even have 35k by that time & it's paid for so I'd probably just gift him at that point.
But please, keep the suggestions coming & I'm not against buying a CPO if it's the right mileage/age. Wifey would never buy used but I would now as the depreciation is a killer in the 1st two years anyhow & I'd like a bit of lux...power seat in my compact sized car.
Right now, going through a series of epidurals for my spine & neck area so any car looking will have to wait. Would like to take the wife to the Ft. Lauderdale Car Show so she can compare the models she likes but could be a challenge as I can't walk much. But would be the perfect place for her to see everything.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Love the '03 to '05 3 Series...absolutely stunning cars. Did sit in one at the Mazda dealer but it didn't have the power drivers seat which made ingress/egress virtually impossible for me. Great interior though with everything right where it should be. Funnt though, I prefer the current C Class to the last generation but would be happy to own all three of these vehicles. But German cars scare me a bit with the service costs involved. Have been spoiled with the Japanese and their "cheap to keep" attitude also.
My wish has always been to have 7 cars for every day of the week...my idea of heaven on earth...lol!!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Content with my 32" also...bigger is not always better. But I've become financially conservative as I've gotten older & now that I'm out of the work force, I try to watch what we spend and make do with what we have. Decided long ago that I could never keep up with the Jones' so why even try. Maybe I shouldn't be in CCBA but this is my favorite forum bar none. So you guys are stuck with me for now!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Sorry to hear about this latest problem but thank G-d you've still got the 6 day period so it will save you some $ to get it fixed. Hope it all works out with the least amount of $ and hassles.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
2) breld... if you'll get 90K or more out of the maintenance plan, thats probably three services, plus probably brakes... If you can get $200-$300 off list, it will probably pay off, if you have a CPO car, you are going to the dealer, anyway.. If your car was going out of warranty, and you were using an independent for service, then I wouldn't do it..
In order to maintain the CPO warranty, it is it required or merely advisable to have the car serviced at a BMW dealership? I didn't get a real clear answer from the salesperson, but certainly got the idea it would be much easier to make a warranty claim if service had been performed at the dealership.
But.. if you have a problem, you are going there.. Is it warranty or maintenance? If you have the maintenance plan, there aren't any issues.
That doesn't mean that there aren't things that might not be covered, either way (control arm bushings, for example), but it just makes it a lot easier to deal with..
But, it is a big chunk to pay upfront... It isn't like it's a no-brainer... but, the more use you get out of it (closer to 100K), then the better it looks...
Will they prorate a refund for unused coverage if your car gets totaled or stolen?
I see they strategically set this coverage up for an early expiry. (2 years) yet they claim it is an extension of the same coverage as new car wty. (50k in 4 years) Fortunately for you, you plan to do 25k miles a year. Most of the rest of us don't, and if someone doesn't figure it out, they might pay the 2 grand and not get full use of it. I consider it a bit on the sneaky side, which supports the old adage, 'buyer always beware'.
In Canada, by law, original warranties must be covered providing bills and documentation (date and mileage etc) is kept of who, when, where oil changes etc are performed, even if it is by the car owner themselves.
I think breld bought a three year old car with about 45K miles, and plans on driving the same amount for the next three years... So, without the maintenance extension, he'll be out of maintenance in about 4 months...
So, he'll get 32 months and 40K miles extra, by getting the maintenance extension (the same as he will get extra for the CPO warranty)..
If you are a 10K/yr driver, the CPO warranty and the maintenance extension are worth far less to you....
I don't think there are any refunds... although, there may be, if you haven't yet started the extended period... that's a good question, though...
Unfortunately, for every accident you avoid via superior braking capability, you increase the chances that the tailgater in back of you will be eating your back end....
If asian cars like my prius cost $651 to warranty for 7/75 and only need oil changes for $60 every 10k miles, why do the euro cars have such expensive issues built into their autos. Now I understand the components needed for high speed performance driving but how many BMW's in the states are driven at 100 mph through twisting roads? Way overkill. The beauty in my eyes is the beautiful lines and fit and finish. I love the 5 series and the ml 350. Just put a set of bilsein shocks and a smooth Honda V6 and transmission in the chassis and for 30-35k I'd be interested. All service and maintenance issues would be resolved. I know about over buying. I have a Jeep Liberty 4wd that has never been off road. I guess there will always be a market for exclusivity driven buy pricing most folks out of the market, but is it really necessary to build these cars to insure repairs and maintenance out of warranty are so expensive ? I guess Lexus and Infinity have the reliability edge but parts and labor for a fix is right there with the euro crowd.
If asian cars like my prius cost $651 to warranty for 7/75 and only need oil changes for $60 every 10k miles, why do the euro cars have such expensive issues built into their autos.
The is a German "logic" to design that I don't quite understand. Cars like Mercedes W123 cars would last forever if maintained, but they expected things like actually greasing and lubing the suspension or it would wreck ball joints. Modern BMW transmissions and rear-ends are now sealed for "life" with fluid that theoretically never needs changing. They don't even have oil dipsticks.
Now I understand the components needed for high speed performance driving but how many BMW's in the states are driven at 100 mph through twisting roads?
But those components, in most cases, aren't what fail. Its the cooling systems or fuel systems or electrical gremlins that take out European cars.
The beauty in my eyes is the beautiful lines and fit and finish. I love the 5 series and the ml 350.
So everyone has something to admire. I really enjoy the ride quality and feel of most BMWs (although I didn't really care for the '11 535), most Audis, and some Mercedes. I like the way they feel no matter what speed I am going. I like the way they inspire confidence on cloverleaf ramps, etc.
Just put a set of Bilstein shocks and a smooth Honda V6 and transmission in the chassis and for 30-35k I'd be interested.
I think they did, its called a Lexus ES350. Exceptional fit and finish with plenty of power and about as disconnected and numb driving experience as one could want. And reliability and maintenance in line with what you are used to.
If asian cars like my prius cost $651 to warranty for 7/75 and only need oil changes for $60 every 10k miles, why do the euro cars have such expensive issues built into their autos.
Methinks you're overgeneralizing. My BMW 330i, purchased new in June, 2001, hasn't cost any more to maintain than the Honda & Toyota products that we've owned over the years. (I bought my 1st Honda in 1974 & my wife bought her 1st Toyota in '75, so we have at least as much experience with Japanese products as anyone else around here.)
I'm sure that Roadburner, our resident BMW expert, will jump in with more examples of BMW longevity.
I'm sure that Roadburner, our resident BMW expert, will jump in with more examples of BMW longevity.
The higher content 5ers and 7ers tend to be the most expensive to run; more a function of their increased complexity. As for the vaunted Asian reliability, my 73,000 mile 2007 Mazdaspeed has cost more to repair and maintain than my 108,000 mile 2004 X3 and 124,000 mile 1995 3 Series combined. The X3 has needed one non-scheduled repair- an SRS sensor replaced under warranty. Never made a claim on the CPO warranty. And the Mazda? How about a front strut, a turbo, and a valve timing actuator- all replaced before 50,000 miles. In the past twelve months the Mazda has needed front brakes($650), a new EGR valve($700) and rear shocks($360). The X3? Nothing. The 3 Series? A heater core fitting($260). So please keep repeating the "BMWs are OMG expensive to fix!" mantra- as loudly as possible.. It depresses the used Bimmer prices which helps me acquire newer cars for even less...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
About BMW's I don't know very much... there are a number of them where I work, and the owners are a loyal, uncomplaining lot, generally speaking.
But the Audi guys, not so much. I don't think that Audi is really that much worse than BMW, it's just that with any of these, once things go wrong, they can go very wrong indeed.
A good friend of mine has a 2004 A4, though, and he's had naught to fix on it yet .. at nearly 90,000 miles. I really think most of them are fine, at least into middle age.
Shifty's take on buying high-mileage Audis is well documented elsewhere on Edmund's, and it's informative and entertaining.
So, the reason I don't own one of these sleds is twofold: I really don't have any use for a nice commuter, due to my 5 mile roundtrip in-town "commute." And I'm not willing to take the risk of having something big blow on me and be on the hook for exotic parts at fantasy prices.
Another issue is the way I felt when I had a friend's '06 M3 for a couple days -- long story -- but I felt distinctly ridiculous in that car. I'm a man of simple tastes, I reckon.
I wish I could also sing the praises of BMW reliability. Unfortunately my 2004 330xi has been nothing but trouble since we bought it 6 months ago, and this was after a Pre Purchase Inspection by a well respected BMW mechanic that revealed no issues whatsoever.
In that time I've spent about $2000 and am staring down the barrel of, at the very least, needing a new torque converter and most likely an entire new transmission.
Parents are on me to sell it once this repair is done, but we'll see. I'm quickly becoming a proponent of extended manufacturer warranties on european makes.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
Your wallet is fine for the first 4 years. You paid for the compt maintenance when you bought the car. I would suppose issues with the last few model years would be better. Here in the States, bmw parts are usually expensive because of many issues but since the market is limited the price will be high. I believe that parts for all the new tech oriented domestic makes will likely even the playing field a bit in the next 10 years. Imagine what the costs will be for those 6-8 speed transmissions-a/c compressors-and computer modules They won't show up at auto zone for years if ever. I'll bet there are zero parts that fit the 2010 and earlier Ford Focus built into the new generation. Old school may be boring but it sure is less expensive.
I learned this the hard way many years ago (early 80s). I made the mistake of buying a 1975 Opel Manta (last year of german cars, and only FI model).
at one point, the water pump started to leak. Took it in, and first was told NP, about a $20 part. then they realized that, along with many other pieces, the WP was a 1 year only part. More like $80. ouch.
and never mind trying to find anything related to the FI system. At one point, thought it needed a computer, and it seemed there was 1, in the entire country. Don't even want to think about what they wanted for it (thankfully finally found someone to diagnose it only needed a sensor).
I think breld bought a three year old car with about 45K miles, and plans on driving the same amount for the next three years... So, without the maintenance extension, he'll be out of maintenance in about 4 months...
So, he'll get 32 months and 40K miles extra, by getting the maintenance extension (the same as he will get extra for the CPO warranty)..
That is correct. The car has 44k miles on now, so the original warranty is up in about 6k miles (or about 3 months based our miles driven). Then the CPO warranty will kick in for the next 2 years/50k miles.
So, at the very least, we have the warranty. The question is whether the maintenance plan is worth it - as others have pointed out, if you don't drive many miles over the 2 years, it probably is not. But given that we will likely drive 40-50k miles over that period, we could be a good candidate for it.
I had wondered whether it was required to have the car serviced at a dealership to maintain the CPO warranty. 'Cause if it's not (which I don't think it is), I would presume the maintenance service costs at an independent would be less than the dealer, and perhaps make the $2,095 not worth it. I obviously don't want to do anything to affect the CPO warranty.
We're still thinking about - and have another few months to ponder.
Old school may be boring but it sure is less expensive.
That hasn't been my experience. The 2 most troublesome cars that we've ever owned were a '78 VW Rabbit & an '80 Audi 5000, both of which were purchased new.
By today's standards, both cars were strippers: no automatic transmissions, power windows or power seats. The Rabbit also lacked A/C & power steering. (Needless to say, such features as ABS, stability & traction control & air bags were unheard of then.) And yet both cars were money pits. The VW died at 50K miles after throwing a rod, while the Audi was one catastrophe (electrical problems, HVAC & steering failures, front suspension issues) until we threw in the towel & traded it in on a Honda Accord.
By contrast, we've had few problems with the 4 cars that we've bought since the late 90s. (We still have 3 of them.) As far as I'm concerned, new school complexity beats old school simplicity every time.
But there is a bleed over of technology that is part of the equation now. Some of your confidence in new school complexity, will be due to things like engines made to better/closer tolerances, better lubricating oils, gold plated wiring connectors, hot galvanized steel and things like that. You factor in those same build techniques/tech to the less complex car without the A/C and pwr options, and you have the best of both worlds basically, (assuming trouble-free motoring is the goal, over creature comforts). Less complexity by its very description means there is less to go wrong.
By contrast, we've had few problems with the 4 cars that we've bought since the late 90s. (We still have 3 of them.) As far as I'm concerned, new school complexity beats old school simplicity every time.
I think there is a trade off there. I've never bought/owned a vehicle that wasn't fuel injected. I had two hand-me-down cars that had carbs and they both had issues idling cold and surging when hot. I don't miss that at all, even if it means I need a computer to control the injectors.
Airbags and ABS really aren't that new...they have been around since the 70s so they had time to perfect it and make it reliable. Sensors actually make the car run better for longer (try running a 70s car with a carb with the same spark plugs for 100k), so even $80 for an O2 sensor every now and then is a small price to pay.
Some stuff, like power windows, are just money pits eventually. My Contour was the first car to be 10yr old without having to replace window motors. That said, its sunroof never leaked and always worked (same on the '93 Accord) so maybe some parts are just designed better than others.
FWIW, both the '78 Rabbit & the '80 Audi were fuel injected. Most American & Japanese cars of that era had carbs, though.
ABS & airbags may have been around since the 70s, but they didn't reach the mass market until the late 80s/early 90s. Neither was available - not even as an option - when we bought our '87 Accord. Honda didn't offer a driver side airbag or ABS until '92. (ABS was initially available that year only on higher trim lines.) Passenger side bags came along the following year, but only on the top trim line. Not until '94 were dual air bags standard across all trim lines.
The Toyota Camry followed pretty much the same time line.
I've never had power window problems with a Japanese car. Our '87 Accord, which was never garaged, did develop a sunroof leak in its 11th year, but our mechanic traced the problem to clogged drains. He cleaned them out, charged me $20 for his trouble, & the leak went away for good.
I forget how cold starting was handled. I think it had a type of enriching circuit? Pull a lever, but wasn't a choke per se. Also not sure how they handled the warmup process. Corvette had a very early mech FI in the early years too didn't they?
My old car has MFI. Cold starting is easy - you just leave the key in the "on" position for maybe 10-20 seconds, and it fires right up. I think the manual says to pump it a couple times in real cold weather, but that seldom happens here.
Remember Breld, you have to spend 2k on maintenance just to break even. Repairs are covered through the CPO. They should have put new brake pads on the car when it was certified. I believe all the fluids have been changed as well. Other required future fluid changes -- oil-trans-coolant -- there shouldn't be that much more to do. Check with the indy shop on costs -- The BMW book on maintenance charges for every little inspection. Your indy shop will look things over along with the oil change for free. I'd do the very minimum to keep the warranty intact. I doubt you'll come close to 2k. You could have the pads changed at the indy shop every 10k miles and still be ahead.
Back in 1978 we lived about 50 miles North of San Francisco and I bought a 70's something Opel Manta as a commute car. Bright blue and a cute little bugger. Sort of a baby Sting Ray.
It turned out to be a pretty dependable little car. I sold it a year later when we were transferred to Kansas City. As I recall, I sold it for about what I paid for it.
after the string of 1970s american compacts (gremlin, Duster, Hornet, all 6 cyl sticks), the Opel was like driving a Ferrari.
and actually, I only had 1 real problem with it, which was related to the FI system. If I had gone first to somebody that knew what to do with it (and could fix it) the car might have been reliable.
Talking about that Manta made me think of the very first time I drove down to San Francisco in it.
I was about half way across the Golden Gate Bridge (first time), excited about a new job, negotiating about 8 lanes of traffic, flogging that Manta along when a wasp started buzzing around my face. While slapping at the wasp I dropped my cigarette (everyone smoked back then) and it rolled right under my butt!!
I was flopping around in that tiny little car like a fish out of water. Picture John Candy in the movie, "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles". Somehow I managed to get through the ordeal without an accident or dropping into the bay. It's funny now but not so much when it was happening ! :sick:
Comments
Number really don't tell the story.
-Mathias
Not sure the generation to which you both were referring, but I remember the first ones shared Nissan's 3 litre V6. Good engines (I think on Ward's list for years) but seems to me they used to break exhaust manifolds a bit too early. I stand to be corrected maybe but i think that was their (only) weak spot.
I know it would not have stopped me from buying one had i been in the mkt back then. AAMOF, had they been AWD, it would have made my short list. At the time MPV had retired their old 3 litre AWD for the new one with Ford's (smooth) 2.5 V6.
And Gimme, this version has the 3.3l V6 (basically a truck engine). The earlie 3.0l was a VQ 9I think they were VQ then), but basically the 3.0l out of the Maxima. the 3.3 was definitley not was refined, but probably way better suited to minivan duty.
that replaced my 1996 Voyager (SWB). That had the 3.3l Chrysler V6, with a whopping 150 (or 155) HP, but I think 220 on torque. Felt like a hot rod compared to the 1992 Subaru Legacy it replaced!
Torque is where it is at baby.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
So far, the 2.0T has been a pretty reliable engine for the most part.
There have been some issues of heads/cams being torn up thanks to a poorly designed cam follower for the HPFP. But for all those who know about it, it is a cheap and easy maintenance item. Unfortunately, not everyone knows about it. That is probably the problems you've heard about.
The 2.0T is quite a gem, really. Just torque all over the rev band. It puts out more than VW claims. I think this is obvious from comparison tests when you see it running to 60 faster than vehicles with more power, but it has also been shown by independent owner dyno tests. My only complaint, as I've thrown around these forums before, is that the mileage isn't as high as I think it should be. I used to get just as good in my 280hp 350Z and far better in my 244hp V6 Accord.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2) breld... if you'll get 90K or more out of the maintenance plan, thats probably three services, plus probably brakes... If you can get $200-$300 off list, it will probably pay off, if you have a CPO car, you are going to the dealer, anyway.. If your car was going out of warranty, and you were using an independent for service, then I wouldn't do it..
3) Early A4s with the 1.8T engine were dogs.... pair that with a slushbox, and 4-cylinder Accords are eating your lunch.. A stick and V-6, though...and, they weren't bad.. But, the 2.0T is an awesome engine....
regards,
kyfdx
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Nursed it to the mechanic who it drove perfectly for, but he said likely the transmission is toast. The car has a powertrain warranty for 6 more days, and he is going to look at it on Wednesday. Called the warranty company, and they said they will only cover up to $60/hr in labor rate plus parts for a used transmission. My mechanic is more than that. In case that wasn't bad enough, while he was under the hood, we discovered a Valve Cover Gasket leak - another $800 not covered under the warranty.
I'm at a complete loss. Will know more Wednesday after he is able to determine what exactly went wrong. In the mean time, I'm looking at 0 down leases. Suggestions for something with maintenance included?
You probably changed the oil too often instead of waiting to 8 or 10,000 miles like I do. Mine got broken in real good. :P
I only hit 29 three times in 150k and was really bummed the one time that I got a 29.9 tank. Just couldn't quite squeeze 30 mpg out of it.
They were great engines and spent ten years I think on Ward's list. I think it's the same one as in the Pathfinder, but Ford made Nissan tweak them a bit to make them non-interference engines. I'm still on the original timing belt.
And yeah, the first generation had manifold bolt issues.
Really do need the compact size for my side of the garage. So for a couple of years the Civic will have to stay. By that time, my son should be out of St. Louis and he really wants the Civic. Won't even have 35k by that time & it's paid for so I'd probably just gift him at that point.
But please, keep the suggestions coming & I'm not against buying a CPO if it's the right mileage/age. Wifey would never buy used but I would now as the depreciation is a killer in the 1st two years anyhow & I'd like a bit of lux...power seat in my compact sized car.
Right now, going through a series of epidurals for my spine & neck area so any car looking will have to wait. Would like to take the wife to the Ft. Lauderdale Car Show so she can compare the models she likes but could be a challenge as I can't walk much. But would be the perfect place for her to see everything.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
My wish has always been to have 7 cars for every day of the week...my idea of heaven on earth...lol!!
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
In order to maintain the CPO warranty, it is it required or merely advisable to have the car serviced at a BMW dealership? I didn't get a real clear answer from the salesperson, but certainly got the idea it would be much easier to make a warranty claim if service had been performed at the dealership.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
But.. if you have a problem, you are going there.. Is it warranty or maintenance? If you have the maintenance plan, there aren't any issues.
That doesn't mean that there aren't things that might not be covered, either way (control arm bushings, for example), but it just makes it a lot easier to deal with..
But, it is a big chunk to pay upfront... It isn't like it's a no-brainer... but, the more use you get out of it (closer to 100K), then the better it looks...
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I see they strategically set this coverage up for an early expiry. (2 years) yet they claim it is an extension of the same coverage as new car wty. (50k in 4 years)
Fortunately for you, you plan to do 25k miles a year. Most of the rest of us don't, and if someone doesn't figure it out, they might pay the 2 grand and not get full use of it. I consider it a bit on the sneaky side, which supports the old adage, 'buyer always beware'.
In Canada, by law, original warranties must be covered providing bills and documentation (date and mileage etc) is kept of who, when, where oil changes etc are performed, even if it is by the car owner themselves.
So, he'll get 32 months and 40K miles extra, by getting the maintenance extension (the same as he will get extra for the CPO warranty)..
If you are a 10K/yr driver, the CPO warranty and the maintenance extension are worth far less to you....
I don't think there are any refunds... although, there may be, if you haven't yet started the extended period... that's a good question, though...
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If you end up needing brakes, it will definitely pay for itself.... and, if you are getting 40K miles out of it, that is a probability...
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Unfortunately, for every accident you avoid via superior braking capability, you increase the chances that the tailgater in back of you will be eating your back end....
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Sorry, too easy of a straight line to pass up!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
:P
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
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But, the same things that make them good at high speeds on twisty roads, also make them good at everything else...
I don't think you can engineer a car to be great at 0-80, if it sucks at 100+
Could they make them cheaper to repair and maintain? Geez.... you'd hope so... Why don't they? Beats me.. I wish they would..
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The is a German "logic" to design that I don't quite understand. Cars like Mercedes W123 cars would last forever if maintained, but they expected things like actually greasing and lubing the suspension or it would wreck ball joints. Modern BMW transmissions and rear-ends are now sealed for "life" with fluid that theoretically never needs changing. They don't even have oil dipsticks.
Now I understand the components needed for high speed performance driving but how many BMW's in the states are driven at 100 mph through twisting roads?
But those components, in most cases, aren't what fail. Its the cooling systems or fuel systems or electrical gremlins that take out European cars.
The beauty in my eyes is the beautiful lines and fit and finish. I love the 5 series and the ml 350.
So everyone has something to admire. I really enjoy the ride quality and feel of most BMWs (although I didn't really care for the '11 535), most Audis, and some Mercedes. I like the way they feel no matter what speed I am going. I like the way they inspire confidence on cloverleaf ramps, etc.
Just put a set of Bilstein shocks and a smooth Honda V6 and transmission in the chassis and for 30-35k I'd be interested.
I think they did, its called a Lexus ES350. Exceptional fit and finish with plenty of power and about as disconnected and numb driving experience as one could want. And reliability and maintenance in line with what you are used to.
Methinks you're overgeneralizing. My BMW 330i, purchased new in June, 2001, hasn't cost any more to maintain than the Honda & Toyota products that we've owned over the years. (I bought my 1st Honda in 1974 & my wife bought her 1st Toyota in '75, so we have at least as much experience with Japanese products as anyone else around here.)
I'm sure that Roadburner, our resident BMW expert, will jump in with more examples of BMW longevity.
Other than that and expensive brake jobs, shouldn't really be that much different.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The higher content 5ers and 7ers tend to be the most expensive to run; more a function of their increased complexity. As for the vaunted Asian reliability, my 73,000 mile 2007 Mazdaspeed has cost more to repair and maintain than my 108,000 mile 2004 X3 and 124,000 mile 1995 3 Series combined. The X3 has needed one non-scheduled repair- an SRS sensor replaced under warranty. Never made a claim on the CPO warranty. And the Mazda? How about a front strut, a turbo, and a valve timing actuator- all replaced before 50,000 miles.
In the past twelve months the Mazda has needed front brakes($650), a new EGR valve($700) and rear shocks($360).
The X3? Nothing.
The 3 Series? A heater core fitting($260).
So please keep repeating the "BMWs are OMG expensive to fix!" mantra- as loudly as possible.. It depresses the used Bimmer prices which helps me acquire newer cars for even less...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
But the Audi guys, not so much. I don't think that Audi is really that much worse than BMW, it's just that with any of these, once things go wrong, they can go very wrong indeed.
A good friend of mine has a 2004 A4, though, and he's had naught to fix on it yet .. at nearly 90,000 miles. I really think most of them are fine, at least into middle age.
Shifty's take on buying high-mileage Audis is well documented elsewhere on Edmund's, and it's informative and entertaining.
So, the reason I don't own one of these sleds is twofold: I really don't have any use for a nice commuter, due to my 5 mile roundtrip in-town "commute." And I'm not willing to take the risk of having something big blow on me and be on the hook for exotic parts at fantasy prices.
Another issue is the way I felt when I had a friend's '06 M3 for a couple days -- long story -- but I felt distinctly ridiculous in that car. I'm a man of simple tastes, I reckon.
Cheers -Mathias
In that time I've spent about $2000 and am staring down the barrel of, at the very least, needing a new torque converter and most likely an entire new transmission.
Parents are on me to sell it once this repair is done, but we'll see. I'm quickly becoming a proponent of extended manufacturer warranties on european makes.
Breaks
More
Wallets
That said, BMW's are actually the best of the european bunch. If you want constant trouble and expense, try an aging Audi or a Volvo!
at one point, the water pump started to leak. Took it in, and first was told NP, about a $20 part. then they realized that, along with many other pieces, the WP was a 1 year only part. More like $80. ouch.
and never mind trying to find anything related to the FI system. At one point, thought it needed a computer, and it seemed there was 1, in the entire country. Don't even want to think about what they wanted for it (thankfully finally found someone to diagnose it only needed a sensor).
was not sad to get rid of that money hog!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
So, he'll get 32 months and 40K miles extra, by getting the maintenance extension (the same as he will get extra for the CPO warranty)..
That is correct. The car has 44k miles on now, so the original warranty is up in about 6k miles (or about 3 months based our miles driven). Then the CPO warranty will kick in for the next 2 years/50k miles.
So, at the very least, we have the warranty. The question is whether the maintenance plan is worth it - as others have pointed out, if you don't drive many miles over the 2 years, it probably is not. But given that we will likely drive 40-50k miles over that period, we could be a good candidate for it.
I had wondered whether it was required to have the car serviced at a dealership to maintain the CPO warranty. 'Cause if it's not (which I don't think it is), I would presume the maintenance service costs at an independent would be less than the dealer, and perhaps make the $2,095 not worth it. I obviously don't want to do anything to affect the CPO warranty.
We're still thinking about - and have another few months to ponder.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
That hasn't been my experience. The 2 most troublesome cars that we've ever owned were a '78 VW Rabbit & an '80 Audi 5000, both of which were purchased new.
By today's standards, both cars were strippers: no automatic transmissions, power windows or power seats. The Rabbit also lacked A/C & power steering. (Needless to say, such features as ABS, stability & traction control & air bags were unheard of then.) And yet both cars were money pits. The VW died at 50K miles after throwing a rod, while the Audi was one catastrophe (electrical problems, HVAC & steering failures, front suspension issues) until we threw in the towel & traded it in on a Honda Accord.
By contrast, we've had few problems with the 4 cars that we've bought since the late 90s. (We still have 3 of them.) As far as I'm concerned, new school complexity beats old school simplicity every time.
I think there is a trade off there. I've never bought/owned a vehicle that wasn't fuel injected. I had two hand-me-down cars that had carbs and they both had issues idling cold and surging when hot. I don't miss that at all, even if it means I need a computer to control the injectors.
Airbags and ABS really aren't that new...they have been around since the 70s so they had time to perfect it and make it reliable. Sensors actually make the car run better for longer (try running a 70s car with a carb with the same spark plugs for 100k), so even $80 for an O2 sensor every now and then is a small price to pay.
Some stuff, like power windows, are just money pits eventually. My Contour was the first car to be 10yr old without having to replace window motors. That said, its sunroof never leaked and always worked (same on the '93 Accord) so maybe some parts are just designed better than others.
ABS & airbags may have been around since the 70s, but they didn't reach the mass market until the late 80s/early 90s. Neither was available - not even as an option - when we bought our '87 Accord. Honda didn't offer a driver side airbag or ABS until '92. (ABS was initially available that year only on higher trim lines.) Passenger side bags came along the following year, but only on the top trim line. Not until '94 were dual air bags standard across all trim lines.
The Toyota Camry followed pretty much the same time line.
I've never had power window problems with a Japanese car. Our '87 Accord, which was never garaged, did develop a sunroof leak in its 11th year, but our mechanic traced the problem to clogged drains. He cleaned them out, charged me $20 for his trouble, & the leak went away for good.
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I'd do the very minimum to keep the warranty intact. I doubt you'll come close to 2k. You could have the pads changed at the indy shop every 10k miles and still be ahead.
It turned out to be a pretty dependable little car. I sold it a year later when we were transferred to Kansas City. As I recall, I sold it for about what I paid for it.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
and actually, I only had 1 real problem with it, which was related to the FI system. If I had gone first to somebody that knew what to do with it (and could fix it) the car might have been reliable.
Would have been much happier with a carbed '74!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I was about half way across the Golden Gate Bridge (first time), excited about a new job, negotiating about 8 lanes of traffic, flogging that Manta along when a wasp started buzzing around my face. While slapping at the wasp I dropped my cigarette (everyone smoked back then) and it rolled right under my butt!!
I was flopping around in that tiny little car like a fish out of water. Picture John Candy in the movie, "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles". Somehow I managed to get through the ordeal without an accident or dropping into the bay. It's funny now but not so much when it was happening ! :sick:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460