Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)
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2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/19/gm-has-cut-its-buick-dealership-network-in-half-through-buyouts.html
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Could always use the @breld method to avoid maintenance costs. Just trade before they need any maintenance 😇
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I thought you were serious.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Daughter has had her MINI for almost 10 years and is closing in on 70,000 miles. Yes, it’s had an issue or two, but - it’s never left her stranded on the side of the road.
Yes, maintenance costs like oil changes and brakes are going to be more expensive - but, maybe not all that much more than the Golf.
Is there a way for you to rent one for a few days to really get a sense of whether you’ll like it or not?
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
A franchised dealer where there is only one owner or one store within a large geographic area is not going to be good for consumers. If you own the only chain of pizza restaurants (or liquor stores) in a college town with no chance of direct competitors opening, how much are you going to care about customer service?
My 17 year old is off from school for 2 weeks, so I brought him to work with me. My customer who knows I am into cars, gave me the keys and told me to take it around the block. I had my 17 year old sit in the 3rd row and he said it was very comfortable. The Grand Highlander definitely seems big inside. Lots of headroom, shoulder room, and a long roof that doesn't slope too much until the very end. Very nice 3 row SUV.
Hearing buying experiences is always fun. He always negotiates the price of the new car and the price of his trade separately. He had an idea of what he wanted to get for his Discovery ($22K-$25K). He test drove the Grand Highlander at a dealer near where we work. Their 1st pencil offer was $16K for the Discovery and $15K over sticker for the Grand Highlander. He thanked them for their time, left and started making phone calls. He found a dealer that was willing to knock off a few thousand off sticker of the GH and give him $22K for the LR.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Your Mini and our X1 are on the same platform I believe. While not the most inspiring thing to drive, it has been largely trouble free for 60k miles and gets great mpg. Plenty zippy too.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Problem solved.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Backed the wife's new Kona out of the garage this morning, roof guy came back to finish the cleaning, and was impressed with the overall vehicle. And seems to be slightly bigger then my Golf. The few I've driven at work have been nice but being rentals, aren't in the same condition as our new one. But think I could be happy with one. But at this point, the selection of the outgoing 2023 models are quite slim so I'd have to look more closely at the new 2024 model.
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
"Canada's so-called Electric Vehicle Availability Standard was announced back in 2021, but the arrangement has been finalized this week. The new rules call for a target of 20 percent of all cars sold by 2026 to be zero-emission vehicles, and that grows to at least 60 percent of cars sold in Canada by 2030; all new cars and trucks sold on dealer lots in Canada must have zero-emission powertrains by 2035, with one small caveat for plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) to continue for a few years, provided they have enough all-electric range.
By comparison, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)'s proposed rules call for 67 percent of all new light-duty vehicles sold in the U.S. to be zero emission by 2032. California's guidance, separate from the EPA's proposal, requires 100 percent PHEV, EV, or FCEV (fuel-cell electric vehicles) sales by 2035, which 17 other states have agreed to follow. Canada's third-quarter 2023 sales reflected a 12 percent EV sales mix, and there was a 7.9 percent mix in the U.S. in the same period, with EVs expected to make up 13 percent of global vehicle sales this year, according to Reuters.
That "out" in Canada's new rules that PHEVs count comes with an asterisk: Those cars must come with an all-electric range of 80 km (50 miles) or more to remain eligible for sale until at least 2035. Tim Reuss, president of the Canadian Automobile Dealers Association, was not happy with the new rules, according to a quote from him via Reuters: "Regulating Canadians to buy EVs they can't afford, or charge, will be a made-in-Canada policy failure."
For this to work these EVs need to be flying off the lots, but as we know there are big supplies of some of the first non-Tesla EVs for sale in North America, including the Mustang Mach-E, the F-150 Lightning, the VW ID.4, and some Hyundai/KIA EV models. And that's with big rebates from the government.
Just recently Ford slashed production of the F-150 Lightning in half for 2024, from 150k to 75k. They've also slashed the size their huge new EV factory in Tennessee called Blue Oval City, from a projected 500,000 EVs in 2026 to around 200k.
Maybe I'm missing something, but right now I don't see how these goals from the US and Canadian governments are going to work. A year ago I was guessing there might be resistance in the US to EVs when they hit about a quarter of the market, but there's resistance now at 8%. My guess at the moment is that EVs by 2028 might get to around 20% in the US, but after that....?
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
"Details of GM’s future EV plans were provided by company CFO Paul Jacobson during the recent Q3 2023 earnings presentation. “These actions will impact our previous EV production targets, including the 100,000 EV target we had for the second half of 2023 and cumulative 400,000 EVs from 2022 to the first half of 2024,” Jacobson said during the presentation. “We are not providing new targets, but are moving to a more agile approach to continually evaluate EV demand and adjust production schedules to maximize profitability.”....Now, it looks like The General has abandoned the 400,000 EV units production goal outright."
So rather than around 400,000 Ultium EVs in 2024, maybe GM will make at most half of that? With maybe 40,000 of those going to Honda for the GM/Honda Prologue EV?
Tesla wasn't happy about it, but they lost money on their EVs for about a decade before making good profits. GM seems to be cutting back a lot sooner than that.
Likely the mandates get pushed back, but the logical solution is just going to hybrid then plug in. Eliminates the range anxiety issues and worries about a place to plug in at home. Fill electrics for those who want them, just like today.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
But even Tesla's profitability is down, since they've cut prices as their production has soared. Since most Teslas are losing the $7500 EV tax credit on January 1st, it's likely that they'll cut prices even more to move the metal. The lowest priced Tesla right now is the Model 3 rear wheel drive short range, which has an msrp of about $41k with destination. Without the rebate that's still too expensive for most.
The Tesla factory in Freemont in 2023 made about 600,000 EVs. It produces more units than any other vehicle factory in the US.
The Texas Tesla factory is even bigger. Tesla Texas will probably make about 250,000 EVs this year, double that in 2024, and maybe 800k in 2025.
The least expensive Model Y has an msrp with destination of about $47k. The Honda CR-V hybrid has an msrp of $35k. If you drive 12,000 miles a year you'd only save about $500 a year by driving the Tesla. Given the 12k difference in price, that means 24 years for that to make sense. Obviously long before that both cars will be in the junkyard.
But still the Model Y and the CR-V are going to be about tied in US sales this year, with each selling about 360,000 in 2023, in large part because of the $7500 tax credit that most buyers of the Y get. Toyota's RAV4 is going to sell about 430,000 in the US this year.
For Tesla to sell the c. 500,000 Model Ys they can make for the US in 2024, to become the best-selling non-truck vehicle in the US, they'll need to cut prices.
Anyway, the Model Y below has a price cut of more than 2k for being in "inventory."
Volvo, Cadillac, Buick and others have said they are going to be all EV by 2030. I wonder if that's still going to happen?
https://www.media.volvocars.com/us/en-us/media/pressreleases/277409/volvo-cars-to-be-fully-electric-by-2030
https://www.buick.com/discover/news/electric-vehicle-future
https://www.cadillac.com/electric-life/sustainability-goals
I heard Tesla once referred to as a battery company that happened to make cars in the side
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Mrs. j has a very good friend that goes back to her grade school days. I wouldn’t call them WEALTHY but they are very well off due to a successful family business that her parents started in the late ‘40s. Once she got married in the late ‘60s her husband came into the biz and it did even better. I guess he paid attention in class while earning his degree and a follow up MBA.
I’d say maybe 20 years ago her friend decided that they should buy a Land Rover because she HEARD they were pretty good. Her friend probably knows less about cars than she does but she “heard” something. With the write off due to the biz, buying one to replace their Highlander could be justified. I’m pretty sure they bought the car vs. leasing it but that’s not the point.
I talked to her husband, a very likable guy, after he decided to dump the Rover after a couple years. When I asked him why he said, “let me count the ways. If the damn thing actually started (said he had a few episodes of that), while driving it I was always thinking, is this day the tailgate would act up again or is this the day the AC acts up or is this the day the power windows get erratic and not close until I shut the damn thing off and restarted it”. And he went on with a few more delightful experiences.
Being the practical guy he is he decided to go back to a Highlander. But not before he shopped a few dealers to make sure he got the most he could for the Rover.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
I haven’t!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
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Well, based on the post ahead of yours @nyccarguy thinks it’s all about him.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
https://www.oxmoortoyota.com/inventory/new-2024-toyota-camry-le-fwd-4d-sedan-4t1r11ak4ru880177/
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Not that your kids would know or care but I see the Camry is from @roadburner’s favorite car group.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
she is counting down the days until she gets a new one (just hit 1/2 way through the 3 year lease). She wants a little Volvo. or at least something with more creature comforts like bun warmers!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
This
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Another year of use out of the car after such work and they are more than ahead versus any new car purchase they might consider.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
https://www.wilsonvilletoyota.com/blog/news/understanding-tsrp-toyotas-new-pricing-approach/