Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

xwesx

mjfloyd1 said:

https://www.wilsonvilletoyota.com/blog/news/understanding-tsrp-toyotas-new-pricing-approach/

Haha: Handeling. Classy.

mjfloyd1

I think that handling , delivery and processing is just what others call shipping charges.

The real difference seems to be adding distributor installed options (port installed options)

benjaminh

xwesx said:

For that Accord, even if it *does* need, at minimum, new struts, which it is definitely time to replace anyway, I would think that this work, plus really anything else it needs within the suspension and drivetrain, in terms of maintenance, probably won't exceed $4,000.

Another year of use out of the car after such work and they are more than ahead versus any new car purchase they might consider.

My guess is that a 2008 Accord sedan in average condition, with the current suspension problems and other deferred maintenance, is only worth about maybe $4k in trade. It looks pretty good, and I don't think it's been in an accident, but with the suspension obviously wrong....

My feeling is that putting 4k into a car that's only worth that much is a questionable thing. It is a Honda with the K-series 4-cylinder engine, and since oil changes have been done I'm not esp. concerned about the motor. But a Honda auto trans of that era with 130k miles seems more questionable. If that goes out after you'd spent 3-4k on it you'd be looking at another bill of maybe double that.

The other thing is that Honda and everyone else has spent billions of dollars making cars better since 2008. The body structure on a new Accord is much better than for a 2008 model. A new Accord has ten airbags, compared to two for a 15-year old car, etc. Mpg is significantly higher, acceleration is faster, AndroidAuto is included, etc. Yes, it's c. $28k + TTL for a new car, but then they'd probably be set for the next ten years. This couple is probably moving out state for grad school next August (she can still work remotely), and so likely there will be lots of driving back and forth. One of them is sensitive to noise and vibration during car rides, and is prone to migraines, and I feel like a new car might help ease that too.

Probably they'll just want to repair the old Accord, as you suggest. They are frugal people. But they could afford a new car at the c. 30k OTD level, and we could even help out a bit with that. Sigh. As you can tell, I'd prefer they get a new car, and I've gently suggested that, and haven't yet gotten a reply.

Anyway, I guess we'll see what the Honda techs say first about the car.

PS In addition to the Camry and Accord, the other sedan on my list is the Subaru Legacy, with standard AWD. They are probably moving north, and so awd seems like a big plus.

kyfdx

Clear as mud. One more way to obfuscate the actual price

corvette

I'm assuming it doesn't include doc fees, as those can vary by dealer.

mjfloyd1

@corvette said:
I'm assuming it doesn't include doc fees, as those can vary by dealer.

I’ve not seen any with doc fees.

I have seen some online with ADM so apparently they are very customizable - although that is probably just online finagling and I’d bet that the window sticker would not include ADM

oldfarmer50

mjfloyd1 said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

What is a TSRP?

https://www.wilsonvilletoyota.com/blog/news/understanding-tsrp-toyotas-new-pricing-approach/

So it just calls the bottom line by a different name. I guess people are too dumb to read to the bottom of the page. It doesn’t seem to include those traditional dealer rip offs like vin etching, mop&glo, door edge guards or nitrogen tires.

oldfarmer50

mjfloyd1 said:

I think that handling , delivery and processing is just what others call shipping charges.

The real difference seems to be adding distributor installed options (port installed options)

I understand the southeast shippers have some lock on supply down there and they throw a bunch of usually useless options on every car which just boosts the cost. Why anyone would buy a Toyota down there escapes me.

Michaell

oldfarmer50 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

I think that handling , delivery and processing is just what others call shipping charges.

The real difference seems to be adding distributor installed options (port installed options)

I understand the southeast shippers have some lock on supply down there and they throw a bunch of usually useless options on every car which just boosts the cost. Why anyone would buy a Toyota down there escapes me.

Southeast Toyota runs as almost a separate company within the US. They have a different bank (SETF), and, as noted, different ways of, er, "enhancing" the prices with port installed options.

Michaell

@imidazol97 - thank you for the detailed description and troubleshooting information for the member with the 3800 engine.

Hopefully, they will get the issue sorted. I gather 105K isn't all that many for these engines.

Sandman6472

Drove a couple of new Jeep Wrangler electric vehicles today. The acceleration was wonderful but once I took my foot off the gas pedal, it was a very strange driving sensation, something I would have to get used to. Was the same when I drove a Tesla for the first time. Found it easier to just modulate the accelerator to slow down to a complete stop. Not sure I'd want to live with one on a day to day basis right now. But interesting vehicle to drive.

Also looked at the prices of the regular Mini Cooper and the Countryman while at the dealer today. Prices were between $36K and $41K which is a lot. Found the Countryman to be the perfect size and would need to drive the regular Mini to see if it would just be too small. I know the wife thinks it's too small but since she never drives the Golf, one time in just over nine years when I made her try it, think she'd still think it's too small. I do agree with Mjfloyd that the upkeep might be a bit more then I want to spend but, at this point, not finding much that checks all the boxes. Maybe that's why I keep talking about it but don't make any kind of move. Might just be better to keep the Golf & fix any problem that crops up even if it ,means keeping it another few years. Since I only put maybe 3K/year on it now, might just be the best solution, for now.

Think I just need to take a new 2024 Kona for a test drive & stop by the house for "the garage test" just to see how well it'll fit with the wife's 2023 model. I won't buy a new vehicle to keep it parked on the driveway 24/7 and the Mrs. knows this quite well. My #1 rule is that I want to park my vehicle in the garage, really prefer both to be in there, but I can't force her to do it. But for me, this is non-negotiable! Maybe for a few days here & there, sure, but long term, mine has to go inside. Think when I find the right vehicle, I'll know it & just do it! Do also like the Chevy Bolt, the smaller model, as it's also the perfect size, but not sure I'm ready to go full EV right now. Almost pulled the trigger in the summer of 2022 but, backed out at the last minute. Think a hybrid might just be the best of both worlds honestly.

Sandman6472

Finally bit the bullet and switched over to a 55 and Older smart phone plan tonight. This is the first month where we'd actually go over our monthly gigs, which is 6.6 gigs with rollover through AT&T. I've used my gps a bunch more this month then I usually do and to pay $15/gig when we did go over just seemed crazy to me. All we will lose is our two discounts, my postal discount and our loyalty discount but get unlimited everything while saving a few bucks. Postal discount also gave us free activation on any new device but since we only do that every 4 to 5 years, made sense to have unlimited everything going forward. We also had to go back on autopay which is fine with me. I'd be happy to switch carriers to get a better deal but the Mrs. won't leave AT&T as she's been with them since they were Cingular Wireless. I had T-Mobile but came over into her family plan once the three kids got their own phones as it just made sense to do it. But now that they're all off our plan, the oldest put her sister on her plan the end of last month, so we're down to only two lines now. I also go tired of watching our data use all the time. Even though we had rollover, those six plus gigs went pretty quick. After getting the text that we were just over 75% of data usage with another eleven days till our new month began, made me finally just do it. I use my phone at work, mostly using the gps, but also, I don't want to be limited anymore. Really feels like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders now!

Michaell

@Sandman6472 - a little sleuthing on the internet gave me a list of vehicles, sorted by length.

Your 2015 Golf is 168" long - how much room is leftover in the garage after you park it? I assume quite a bit, as the 2006 Civic you had was just under 177".

2023 Countryman - 170"
2024 Kona - 171"
2024 Encore GX - 171"
2024 Corolla Hatch - 172"
2024 Kia Seltos - 173"
2024 CX-30 - 173"
2024 Kia Niro - 174"

So, no need to perform the "garage test" on these.

corvette

Sandy, I've been on Mint Mobile for several years, and it's been good overall. Can't beat the price, and if you go over the data allowance, you can either buy more data or continue to get data at a slower rate for the rest of the month. Reception is sometimes spotty because that type of plan doesn't roam onto other networks, but I'm pleased overall.

Michaell

corvette said:

Sandy, I've been on Mint Mobile for several years, and it's been good overall. Can't beat the price, and if you go over the data allowance, you can either buy more data or continue to get data at a slower rate for the rest of the month. Reception is sometimes spotty because that type of plan doesn't roam onto other networks, but I'm pleased overall.

Buying into the Ryan hype, are you?

His LinkedIn profile shows him as a "part time actor".

stickguy

speaking of garage tests, got to see my future one in more complete form today. went to meet the builder for a walkthrough since the house is all framed up, to make sure everything was as expected. a few minor change items didn't quite translate to the framers (mostly with framing in for pocket doors and how we wanted the closet), so the builder has some tweaks to make. and wen through some questions. stuff like in the garage, how we wanted the ceiling finished out (there is a major steel beam down the center that we could box in or do a drop, we picked box) and the stairs (there is a really high step up (5') so doing a landing and turned steps so the stairs don't jut into the garage. Not doing that again!

garage door is on. it was open, but that is one big honking door (18'x8'). Went oversized. makes the space to the sides look smaller than the width actually is, but still lots of room on each side of the door.

also made sure that the space I would put my spare garage up is suitable. Actually, a good space, somewhat of a dead zone that would not be missed for lawn.

looking at an early to mid June finish date. Time flying.

corvette

@Michaell - I guess he is a part-time actor for their commercials?

Michaell

corvette said:

@Michaell - I guess he is a part-time actor for their commercials?

…and the occasional “Deadpool” movie.

nyccarguy

As I’ve stated for the last year and a half or so, I am not happy with the service department at my local Jeep dealer. Communication is just awful. I called yesterday morning, to tell them to lock out the keys, and then I would be picking it up later that day. After they closed. My wife and son happen to get there before they closed, and did not see the Jeep out front. They were inside, And had to wait a long time for them to bring the jeep out front. They had no idea that I called for a lockout. I get a call from the service advisor this morning, telling me that my jeep is ready to pick up. I told him that I picked it up last night. he had no idea.

Well, I have him on the phone, I asked him to make sure that he calls me when the part comes in. By the way, they are replacing the entire roof. He says that the part came in this afternoon, and when would I like to bring it in to have it repaired/replaced. So I have an appointment for first thing Tuesday morning.

roadburner

Sandman6472 said:

Drove a couple of new Jeep Wrangler electric vehicles today. The acceleration was wonderful but once I took my foot off the gas pedal, it was a very strange driving sensation, something I would have to get used to. Was the same when I drove a Tesla for the first time. Found it easier to just modulate the accelerator to slow down to a complete stop. Not sure I'd want to live with one on a day to day basis right now. But interesting vehicle to drive.

I suspect that the Max Regeneration mode is enabled. I like it, as it reminds me of my old i3.
More information can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCh_wFdtdvM

jmonroe1

nyccarguy said:

As I’ve stated for the last year and a half or so, I am not happy with the service department at my local Jeep dealer. Communication is just awful. I called yesterday morning, to tell them to lock out the keys, and then I would be picking it up later that day. After they closed. My wife and son happen to get there before they closed, and did not see the Jeep out front. They were inside, And had to wait a long time for them to bring the jeep out front. They had no idea that I called for a lockout. I get a call from the service advisor this morning, telling me that my jeep is ready to pick up. I told him that I picked it up last night. he had no idea.

Well, I have him on the phone, I asked him to make sure that he calls me when the part comes in. By the way, they are replacing the entire roof. He says that the part came in this afternoon, and when would I like to bring it in to have it repaired/replaced. So I have an appointment for first thing Tuesday morning.

————————————————
With all the miscommunications you’ve had with that dealer, I’d call before going to the shop. Just to be sure they have the part/parts.

jmonroe

qbrozen

@mjfloyd1 said:

@oldfarmer50 said:
What is a TSRP?

https://www.wilsonvilletoyota.com/blog/news/understanding-tsrp-toyotas-new-pricing-approach/

Wow. That is a load. MSRP already included delivery. So now they can double charge. I’ve never bought from a dealer who had anything over msrp except doc fee.

Sandman6472

Width is also a consideration but all the choices have similar widths of around 72", give or take. We added a entry way closet before they sheet rocked the house, we bought a spec house that had a roof and had the metal framing done. We added a full wall on one side of the entry way so the Mrs. could put her piano in front of it in the living room. Added a closet on the other side for coats and the vacuum but it took away some garage space. Wife usually hits that new wall so wants to park further away from it which cuts into my side. But think all on that list would work. The Corolla Cross is 176" last I looked but I could be wrong here.

But, the C C is already off the list as it has zero "fun factor", something which I want. Need to check out the 2024 CX-30 to make sure the infotainment controls have been changed as they're supposed to be. Like the Seltos but would go with the new Kona as I like the styling a bit more. Niro is one I'd need to look at a bit more. Encore GX, definitely like a lot, but just not sure it'll give me the "fun" I'm looking for. The Mini is probably the best choice except for the costs of keeping it on the road in the later years as I plan on keeping this new vehicle a long time. And the idea of leasing for three years is not something appealing as I'd probably have around 10K miles at the end, basically a brand new vehicle.

So, still have a lot to think about. I'd also love to get 0% financing but those rates are few & far between right now as I'm not paying cash this time like the Mrs. did. Will charge as much as I can and probably put down half but will still need to finance a good portion. Since the Kona is so new, doubt they need to give great financing terms since betting they'll sell all they can make. And truthfully, think it'll come down to the new Kona or a Mini Cooper, either the Countryman or the smaller one. Prefer a 2-door vehicle though the 4-door model could work also. Since it's just me 90% of the time now, a Mini could be fun actually.

Decisions...decisions! Just have to make the right choice here, need something as fun as the Golf.

nyccarguy

I have an idea @Sandman6472 - get what you want. Have the wife park outside.

ab348

Sandy, I thought we had convinced you to forget about leasing? With the mileage you drive it is insanity to even consider. Flush that option along with ones you don't want like the C C and simplify your thoughts.

pensfan83

@qbrozen said:

@mjfloyd1 said:

@oldfarmer50 said:
What is a TSRP?

https://www.wilsonvilletoyota.com/blog/news/understanding-tsrp-toyotas-new-pricing-approach/

Wow. That is a load. MSRP already included delivery. So now they can double charge. I’ve never bought from a dealer who had anything over msrp except doc fee.

It's like the dealers in Virginia who pull the shenanigans where they remove destination and handling charges to reflect what looks like a discount off MSRP only to add them back in as a "dealer prep fee."

Then they justify it because "everyone does it".

mjfloyd1

Here is a Toyota with TSRP showing a $2000 dealer deduction . I’ve seen them with ADM as well

I don’t think they are double dipping on shipping. They are just showing base price, manufacturer installed options, port installed options and the re-named shipping charge.

kyfdx

That... plus the destination charge appears to be variable by distance or location. It's either that, or the destination charge is fixed, and the dealer gets to choose how much extra goes on that line.

It's a travesty that they are allowed to play around with the Monroney sticker.

mjfloyd1

Shipping is fixed price. Sequoias are made just up
The road from me and it is $1850 to local dealership as seen below. It is odd that they can put deductions and ADM on the labels

au1994

@Sandman6472 definitely suspect max regen was on the Wrangler. It is very noticeable and I rarely use it on mine.

@benjaminh I’d wait on the quotes for the Accord. Stateside a few deals are popping up and there is some willingness to deal. If interest rates would drop, things would improve vastly. If its just 2k or so to keep in on the road for another year, may not be a bad idea to wait it out a bit.

The used market seems to be dropping quickly as well.

oldfarmer50

pensfan83 said:

@qbrozen said:

@mjfloyd1 said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

What is a TSRP?

https://www.wilsonvilletoyota.com/blog/news/understanding-tsrp-toyotas-new-pricing-approach/

Wow. That is a load. MSRP already included delivery. So now they can double charge. I’ve never bought from a dealer who had anything over msrp except doc fee.

It's like the dealers in Virginia who pull the shenanigans where they remove destination and handling charges to reflect what looks like a discount off MSRP only to add them back in as a "dealer prep fee."

Then they justify it because "everyone does it".

Anyone who can read the window sticker can see that the “base” MSRP is a bogus number because it doesn’t include delivery. Creating a new term seems to be designed to confuse rather than clarify. They can call it anything they want but tax, title and delivery are always extra.

Speaking of Toyota, I see they are recalling a million cars due to some airbag issues. I see full employment in my future as the company owns a ton of them and we’ll be shuffling everything to the dealers.

mjfloyd1

I see this one in Sandy’s garage soon

https://www.hyundaiofevansville.com/new/Hyundai/2024-Hyundai-Kona-a2c87b010a0e094a6d02e38970f87b71.htm?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=carousel&utm_campaign=Orb-2Q2023-04_Dynamic-Inventory_IM_IM_All_2023-04-01&fbclid=IwAR1TqMVyTT2JTEjS21tUI-OVm7EzA2KqCjv2bTOvMjh1_TzjrGzqlltmjb8_aem_AS8FXW-jG3vnSaLGwkJXCwTrxRIUWpK864CHDO334w4LB5O6-yUgwaUkG8rtNWn4c1eBHjtcLD86R2Q6hx-oXrWZ

benjaminh

This seems like maybe an okay deal? Msrp for the SEL FWD is c. $41k. Doesn't make the 1% goal, but not that far off.

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/offers

benjaminh

$60k Canadian to replace batteries on 2 different Hyundai Ioniq 5s. As a result, the cars were written off as total losses. Both drivers ran over debris in road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEXieo06ta8

Sandman6472

Yep, leasing is really something that makes zero sense for me except if I went EV just to try it out for a few years. Something like a Bolt could work.

Did like that new Kona but if I do get one, it'll be a Limited model as I want all the bells & whistles this time...everything except AWD, something we don't need in Florida. Shame I'm working this whole weekend as I could've tested the Kona. But, off Wednesday & Thursday so maybe I'll have the time.

The Mrs. might be parking outside more in the future depending on what I do, but she's more willing to do it than I. I'm more vocal about using the garage then she is but hopefully, I'll find something that will fit both vehicles like we do now. Really don't want a large vehicle as I'm more comfortable in a small one.

roadburner

My 4xe has a 10/100 warranty on the battery; it's pretty well armored as it's designed for serious off-roading- although a few hardy souls have managed to damage them.

mjfloyd1

@roadburner said:
My 4xe has a 10/100 warranty on the battery; it's pretty well armored as it's designed for serious off-roading- although a few hardy souls have managed to damage them.

2021 have 10/100k high voltage battery warranty but later years are 8/100k

corvette

Happy Festivus to those who celebrate! I gotta lot of problems with you people...

roadburner

28firefighter

My son had to have his NEXUS renewal interview near the Canadian border. About 100 miles from where we live. Took the Tesla - left with about 80% charge. Got home with 5% charge - exactly as the car predicted. If it had suggested I charge, I would have. As is, it’ll be back up to 80% before I wake up.

Autopilot saved my rear several times as there were an unbelievable number of speed traps out.

Continues to be just a phenomenal city and roadtrip car. Could not be happier with it after 18 months of ownership.

oldfarmer50

Festivus for the rest of us.

tjc78

To all my Edmund’s family! Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah!!

Have a great holiday season.

jmonroe1

tjc78 said:

To all my Edmund’s family! Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah!!

Have a great holiday season.

————————————————
Thanks but you’re a little late on that second one.

What’s the weather like out there?

jmonroe

qbrozen

I find myself perusing Dodges lately. Probably influenced by the last v8 Chargers and Challengers rolling off the line this week. Looks like low-mileage ‘19-‘21 Scat Packs are from mid 30s to $40k. But finding the right color with the right seats is tough. I then wonder if I shouldn’t just drop a Scat drivetrain into my Daytona. I don’t know how much that would save, if any. I also sometimes consider if I really need a Charger or should go with a Challenger this time.

tjc78

@jmonroe1 said:
————————————————
Thanks but you’re a little late on that second one.

What’s the weather like out there?

jmonroe

I sure am! I had it confused with next year where it starts later.

My apologies

sda

This would make a nice present.


Only $57900.00

greg128

sda said:

This would make a nice present.



Only $57900.00

I'd rather have this and save about $5K
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/dc9c41db-3c0a-45fa-b064-e7698fac5691/?attribution_type=se_rp

oldfarmer50

sda said:

This would make a nice present.



Only $57900.00

That must include a hefty ADM.

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

sda said:

This would make a nice present.



Only $57900.00

That must include a hefty ADM.

————————————————
I was about to ask the same thing. Maybe they’ll waive that as their Christmas gift to buyers this week.

jmonroe

28firefighter

@sda said:
This would make a nice present.


Only $57900.00

Looks like I need to hang a banner from the wing or something.