Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

At the pace things are going, unless I have a sudden unexpected windfall, I am going to have this car forever.

the wife is up next, and considering I will now be working in an office again (as opposed to being home based FT) but only 3 miles from my house, the justification won't be there anytime soon!

to be fair, it is a good car, cheap to run, comfortable, well equipped, etc. The only reason to get a new one is, well dang it, I just want one!

Oh, as my daughter loves to remind me, pretty soon she will need a car (she turns 16 in November, so can start learning then). So I should be shopping for a cheap car too before one for me.

akangl

Oh, as my daughter loves to remind me, pretty soon she will need a car (she turns 16 in November, so can start learning then). So I should be shopping for a cheap car too before one for me.

You're lucky your state makes them wait til 16, in Alaska kids can get a learner's permit at 14 and a provisional license at 16. I made my son wait until 15 for the permit, he's just 2 months from his 17th bday and I let him get his provisional license after he went through a driving school.

My daughter has said she won't be happy with the Escort, she wants an Element and nothing else will do. :sick:

stickguy

sounds like my daughter.

she informed me today when we were discussing cars that she won't accept just anything, and it better be up to her standards (so no bringing home a semi-tacky Contour like i did with my son!)

Being the good father I am, I laughed at her and told her to think again, because you can't be that picky in what is likely to be her (my) price range!

she does like Beetles, so I may throw caution to the wind and go with an older VW, though IMO that would have to be a manual tranny to be less scary!

the snob girl wouldn't even want to take the Acura TL that her brother has (not that he has intention of giving it up at least until he can buy a BMW after graduating and getting a job!)

akangl

so no bringing home a semi-tacky Contour like i did with my son!

Being the good father I am, I laughed at her and told her to think again, because you can't be that picky in what is likely to be her (my) price range!

Too funny! I guess the 95 Escort I bought could fall into the semi-tacky catagory with its glow in the dark paint all over the dash and steering wheel. Other than that the car is really nice as far as $1k 16 year old cars go that is.

To the Escort's credit it is a very forgiving car when it comes to a teenager learning to drive a manual transmission. The clutch is on its last legs, so I figure I'll replace it once the kid has the whole shifting thing down.

My son wanted to run out for ice cream tonight and we won't let him take the Escort into town just yet, not until he's a little smoother about shifting. So he said he would be fine with the Pilot......yeah, I'm sure he would, but *I* wouldn't! :sick:

fezo

When my daughters would be on what they'd like I said they could have anything they'd like as long as they paid for it and stuck with that.

They have the old Accord and the Celica with the top that won't go down and are fine.

stickguy

I am pretty sure when the choices are laid out (as in, one of those 3 cars, or nothing), her standards might just make an adjustment.

My son did nor care as much, but the girl is much more aware of the social structure of the school (too many spoiled rich kids, including a few of her friends!), so have a "poor persons" car will be a social stigma of some kind.

There are a few that based on older siblings will be getting something newer and nicer than anything I have ever bought myself!

a beetle is actually a good compromise (if you can get past the fact that it is a VW). Relatively cheap, good MPG, safe, and has enough style to be cool.

But best of all, a HS kid can't tell the difference between a 1999 with 100K on it, and a 2000 with 10K! Just have to remember to put fresh flowers in the vase.

michaellno

Just have to remember to put fresh flowers in the vase.

Use plastic flowers; they last longer!

And, I would agree that a used NB would be a good choice. Find one that been well cared for. 2.0L NA with automatic, and, for goodness sakes, find one in a color the daughter approves of!

fezo

When I was a young pup for a while I was dating this nice, spoiled girl from Maryland. She was an only child of well to do parents. When she wanted to play guitar they bought her a Martin. All this only the best stuff. The parents got new Caddys every year on the day the new cars came out.

When she got her license she assumed a new nice car. They bought her a two year old Chevelle. She was fit to be tied! Had a nice adolescent coronary. Oh the shame!

That's one of the reasons things didn't work out. I couldn't imagine trying to keep up with that sort of thing.

steine13

I'll dissent here on a few points.
Driving a beater to a rich kid's school will build character.
And where does it say that 16-year-olds need to drive everywhere?

On top of which, I'd strongly suggest getting a stick. Nobody else will be able to drive it, it won't get stolen or borrowed, and she can't have three beers and have someone else drive it. A VW needs to be stick anyway.

Just yesterday I took my 11-year-old for a driving lesson in an empty parking lot. She does OK with the clutch but we're going very slow, as she can barely see over the steering wheel. Cheap fun, we do it from time to time.

The HS she'll go to is 1.5 miles from our house. She can walk or bike, but unless it's pouring rain, she certainly isn't going to drive such a trivial distance.

You can check with me in five years, but those are the intentions ;->

Cheers -Mathias

stickguy

well, there is a difference between an older car and a beater, at least in my mind. I drove beaters ($300 specials, with the custom lightening package, AKA major rust out). Even the contour I bought for my son was a nice looking car. it was just a dog to drive!

In our state, she can't even drive solo until age 17. And by that point, we will be looking forward to her having a car, since we spend half our lives carting her places. It gets to be a drag having to get her every day after lacrosse (buses don't run that late), and once she gets a job, even worse.

I agree with the stick idea. If she takes to my Accord, I will keep her going on that (she has to be on a permit for a full year anyway), and then just find something manual when she is close to being able to solo. I don't really feel like buying a 3rd car a year before we need one just for her to practice on, so it will be stick or minivan!

fintail

My dad started me driving a stick when I was 10 or 11. It was pretty rough going, but I was able to make the car move with some work. The skill is like riding a bicycle, once you get it, you keep it.

I wouldn't want a kid to drive a beater that was gone to the point of being unreliable or unsafe, but a boring old used car (old Camcord etc) is the best choice for a parent-bought car. If the kid wants something cool, they can get a job and pay for it themselves.

samm43

It is a dilemma really. It is generally agreed that newer cars are safer than their predecessors, yet we pass down our older cars or search for a 10 or 15 year old plain jane but generally good and sound car, for our kids. Usually we want our kids to be safer than us, outlive us since we have already lived more than they have. Yet in the older cars, they are at more than one disadvantage because not only will they not have the sidecurtain, seatback/bottom and knee airbags, they probably won't have ESC and many won't have ABS, yet their other disadvantage is their lack of driving experience. The first few years are the usually the ones that they learn the most when it comes to defensive driving and anticipating things that can go wrong before they do. And here we are having already lived 2 or 3 or more times their age in life, and we drive the safest vehicles of the family fleet.

I agree new drivers should learn on and have a stick for all the reasons stated above, but also because they often end up being more capable drivers. By default they have a more constant proactive involvement with the function of the car and that is always a good thing.

I meant to add, that a two-seater often makes for a good car for a teen because of the seat restrictions, they aren't always taxiing around other kids, and also the fewer the occupants, the quieter the car-party inside it. May I suggest a 5 speed stick 4 cylinder 2WD Ford Ranger pickup truck? That way you have a truck in the family, and that is always handy. It also has great visibility and that helps with new drivers. The 4 cylinder helps them avoid tickets and with the stick is not too bad on gas if they behave themselves.
And if someone runs a redlight and T-Bones them, they are sitting a bit higher than the average small car so bumper level, especially under heavy braking, is under the seat area right where there is a lot of structural steel to help absorb impact instead of right inline with their body.

Sam

slorenzen

"And where does it say that 16-year-olds need to drive everywhere?"
AMEN TO THAT!!

why do people think they're entitled to all this stuff?

why do parent indulge their kids this way? They're CERTAINLY not doing the kid any favors(long term).

when my kids were that age, I typically bought an older car and would let them use it until/unless they pissed me off!

Then, it was MY car again...

stickguy

the car my son drives is in my name. He drives it at my discretion. And he knows (as will my daughter when she get there) what the rules are, and that violation of them will have swift retribution.

basically all I am doing (and have done) is what you did, getting a spare car so that the kid has one to use.

qbrozen

My daughter has said she won't be happy with the Escort, she wants an Element and nothing else will do.

I can only hope my sons say something similar. My answer will be "nothing it is!"

I've got 12 years to go, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, my kids will NOT get new cars. No way, no how. And I will NOT be buying them a car solely with my money. When I was in high school, it was REAL easy to tell who bought their own cars and who were handed theirs. Those kids who had to pay for their car usually took care of it.

stickguy

in advance of going to the X3 driving event, I priced one out the way I would like it. Not too bad (in theory), at about 42K pretty well equipped for a base engine.

so for the heck of it, I looked at the dealers used inventory. They want about 31K for a CPO 2007 X3 with 40K on the clock. Is that simply high, or timothy leary, out on the roof trying to fly with the birds, high?

Considering could probably get the new one for close to 40, that seems worth it for 4 MY newer, and a full redesign!

Just seems that you should be able to get a 2007 down in the 20K range by this point (though not likely CPO).

akangl

I can only hope my sons say something similar. My answer will be "nothing it is!"

Well, as much as I hate to say I spoil my daughter, I do and she is a bit of a brat because of it. Will we buy her a used Element? If that's what she still wants when she's 17, absolutely! BUT, there's a reason for it.

She has cystic fibrosis and in all likelyhood the Element we buy her will last her the rest of her life. Her health is not good and we try to make sure she has the best life she can have. Her health is the reason we live where we do and hubby has a 275 mile commute to work.

Depending on how things go this summer, our son will probably be taking the Civic with him next spring and hubby will get something else. The Escort will hang around to teach his sister how to drive a stick.......thank goodness for a forgiving little car!

Both of my kids know the rules as far as a car goes, I told my son if he gets ONE violation he's done, no more car. He doesn't see the need to drive to school, the bus is just fine, so he only drives for work really, nothing more.

gouldn

That's got to be way out of whack! I bought my CPO 07 X3 with 15K two and a half years ago for $30K.

Just for reference, I'm getting trade offers in the 19K range, so I would assume they could be had for much less than 31K.

tifighter

Yeah, I priced these when I was shopping a few months ago, and here in the bay area, you could find piles of CPO 07 X3's in the $26-27K range. Especially down in san jose or the silicon valley.

roadburner

I told my son I'll help him buy a car after he's been driving for @1 year. No more than $5000-$6000, tops. In that price range he likes the 944 and the E36/early E46 sedans.
This summer I'm sending him to the two day teen driving school at the BMW Performance Center, and he might also get to go to a one day Street Survival course.
He likes driving the X3 but I'm teaching him to drive the 1999 Wrangler. He thinks it is cool and it's a manual- works for me.

qbrozen

sorry to hear all that. I knew your daughter had health problems, but not quite like that. But, hey, you never know. There are people that are living longer lives all the time with cystic fibrosis.

stickguy

we only have 2 cars, so unless I get a spare (like you have), my daughter will never have anything to drive, so no way to practice!

kyfdx

I saw a really nice 944 Turbo, today...

Maintenance on a 944 would probably be 3X the cost of an E36.. :surprise:

stickguy

for some odd reason, while on cars.com looking up X3s, I checked the local supply of Volvo V70s (another odd fascination of mine). And turned up a private sale one, listed as 6 miles from me (based on zip code). And it seemed to be an awfully good price (danger will robinson!)

a 2001 (not a good year for trannys) V70 2.4T (gotta have the turbo). beige over beige (blah). 105 K, just serviced, recent tires, etc. claimed to be private owner that just bought a new bigger family truck.

looked nice in the pictures, and only asking $3,100. If clean, with no immediate signs of trans distress, could be a nice deal. And near and dear to my heart, cheap!

heck, even if the trans died in a year, still worth something, or have it rebuilt and drive it for another 3 years on the cheap.

oh, did I mention I am cheap?

roadburner

Maintenance on a 944 would probably be 3X the cost of an E36.

A 944 that has been properly maintained isn't horribly expensive to service- although an E36 would still be less expensive to run. What you NEVER want to do is buy any European car that has been neglected.
There is a used car dealer in Louisville who somehow wound up with a Lancia Beta. I could probably get it for under $3K but I know that it would be a bear to find parts for it.
Best case scenario is a nice 318ti turns up. My kid loves mine but he's only driven it once; he thinks that I'd kill him if he bent it.
He's probably right...

kyfdx

318ti aren't that hard to find... Much easier than an E30 coupe...

But, a nice one is probably going to be around $6500.... a little overpriced, I think...

But, you know what to look for, so you have that advantage.. I think it would be a great car for a kid... If my son hadn't received his car as a gift, that would have been high on our list...

nyccarguy

We just turned ours in at the end of July 2010. It had 45K on the odometer and they offered to sell it to us straight up (not CPO) for $22K. They wanted another $2995 to CPO & I gave it back to them. I kinda regret it because out basic, little optioned (metallic paint, heated seats, rear privacy glass) x3 was not only a blast to drive, but extremely reliable too.

nyccarguy

roadburner - my Prelude would make a perfect 1st car for your son :P LOL!

Sandman6472

Totally understand where y'all are coming from...my son was born with a bad heart which they fixed when he was going into 1st grade but he still gets monitored and he has to be careful with what he does activity wise...we've always hovered over him a bit more than the girls but it's natural. It's not fun to have a sick child & we're so blessed to have him come this far...but it's always in the back of our minds about infection getting into his system.

Though, I'm still holding firm on not giving him the Civic to keep in St. Louis right now...when he finishes his stint at AmeriCorps, we've got the $ put away to buy him a nice entry level car just like we did for the girls...we just haven't told him yet about his windfall!

Here's hoping your daughter stays happy & healthy for years to come!!!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

qbrozen

That is too cheap. If there is nothing wrong with it, it is worth $4k on a trade.

anonymousposts

My 2009 Accord was one of the loudest cars we have ever owned. It was much louder than our 04 and our 2010 Camry is nearly silent in comparison. I don't mind a little road noise but it was so loud in the Accord, that it was nearly impossible to use the bluetooth while on the road. Combine that with the washboard seats and I would be hard-pressed to buy another new Honda any time soon. Not to mention the quality issues.

anonymousposts

My deal with my 7 year old is I will match whatever he is willing to contribute. If he has $3000 when he turns 16, that will get him a $6000 car. Hopefully, I don't have a financial whiz for a son that saves a ton of money and then stupidly decides to blow it on a car.

qbrozen

I'll do something similar to what my folks did, which was contribute $1k cash as an early high school graduation gift. Of course, all these years later, I'll have to do a little better than that.

fezo

Yeah, at least $1001....

akangl

Combine that with the washboard seats and I would be hard-pressed to buy another new Honda any time soon. Not to mention the quality issues.

I've noticed the opposite with my Pilot at least. My 07 was loud, lots of road noise, but my '11 is much quieter and the seats are softer plus more comfortable.

The '10 Tahoe we had seemed to have more road noise compared to the Pilot. Now my hubby's Civic.....that's a whole 'nother ball game, I don't know how he manages it for his 4 hour commute each week. He loves that little car though and with 75k on a 2 1/2 year old car he better love it since its value is very little as far as trade in goes.

qbrozen

oh, come on now. We'll be getting our licenses 33 years apart. So that's gonna push me up to $1033.

fezo

Wow. You're a pushover!

Sandman6472

Turns out the Accent had a piece of metal in one of the tires, thus the slow leak. All fixed by my mechanic even though I had to go to another Tires Plus last night to be told no problem which is the same one my kids went to on Saturday to be told the same thing. My guy's great and he's gonna fix the thermostat problem on the Mazda3 on Thursday. Auto Zone found the same problems like 3 months ago but they are no longer allowed to get rid of the service engine light icon anymore due to people coming in for them to turn them off & these folks would sell/trade in the cars fully aware of a problem. Dealers/private buyers complained so much that they changed their policy on this.

My mechanic patched the tire gratis, as he knew he'd be getting about 3 bills to fix the Mazda later in the week...it was still nice of him to do that. That's why I stay with him & follow him where ever he goes. I reward/stick with good honest service...the piece of mind is worth it!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

stickguy

no clue if the price is good/bad/indifferent, but I suspect new the MSRP pushed 50 large on this one. And I imagine there are a few people here that will go gaga over it!

I like it a lot, but not doing silver over black again. Or black guts at all. And I could never do that low profile tire around here, with the bombed out roads we have! So figure out how to get some 17" wheels with 45 series tires on it (non-run flats!), and we might have something going!

actually, my ideal is a base suspension car, with the sport seat upgrade (the only part of the package i really want).

http://www.bmwofturnersville.com/detail-2008-bmw-3_series-4dr_sdn_335i_rwd-used-- 6875520.html

akangl

Turns out the Accent had a piece of metal in one of the tires, thus the slow leak.

Hubby had an issue like that on his commute to work last night. He was fighting 6-8" of snow in the road, lots of tractor-trailers, and apparently lumber with nails in it all over one section of the highway. Of course he hit it and punctured his tire. He said it took 30 miles before the TPMS light came on and he stopped at a gas station, aired it back up and made it to work.

He dropped it over at the motorpool to be fixed, unfortunatly the nail cut through some threads in the tire. They think its ok, but we may have to replace the tires. I hope not, those winter tires are expensive for that car and that's a new set this winter.

michaellno

... I've got to get the ION to a GM dealership. I've been getting the dreaded "PWR STR" message, which indicates a problem with the power steering assist control module.

This was part of a recall that affected both IONs as well as the Chevy Cobalt as they both use the same electric power steering. I've got a letter from GM that extends the warranty on this to 10 years / 100K, otherwise I've heard that it's a $1000+ repair.

My wife says the car is cursed. I asked if that meant I could trade it in. Nope, we just got a new car, she replied. Only 52K on the ION and 2 more payments, so I'm hoping that I won't run into any further issues once I get the power steering taken care of.

fezo

I could have told you your wife would nix a new car for you without you having to ask.... It's only when HER car is cursed that trading in immediately is a must.

I fear we'll be hearing about the foibles of this ION the rest of of our days.....

michaellno

I could have told you your wife would nix a new car for you without you having to ask.... It's only when HER car is cursed that trading in immediately is a must.

I fear we'll be hearing about the foibles of this ION the rest of of our days.....

So true, fezo.

What's interesting is that this weekend is the 1 year anniversary of the purchase of the MINI, since the ION had the elusive problem where it would stop running for no apparent reason.

I've driven the car almost 18,000 miles since then and not once have I had that problem crop up; in fact, the ION has been a good little car for what I use it for - pizza delivery and errand running, by and large.

I've been getting 24-27 MPG consistently with mostly city driving and have done nothing other than routine maintenance and a new set of tires last October. In fact, when I had it in for an oil change a month ago, my local Midas shop commented in what great shape the car was in, mechanically.

While it's a homely little thing (IMO), it has all the creature comforts one would want and does everything that you need. Will be nice to have it paid off in May with so much life left in it.

fezo

You make a logical point. We may have to throw you out of here....

At least your daughter only pulled the it stops running trick as opposed to my daughter who drove the car into the bay....

I'd say that you could do way worse than an economical and dependable car that is paid off but this is the wrong forum for such a thing.

michaellno

At least your daughter only pulled the it stops running trick as opposed to my daughter who drove the car into the bay....

Actually, if it was up to my daughter, she'd still be driving the ION today. She liked it so much she gave it a name ("Steve" - no, I don't think it was named after you, fezo) and was prepared to drive it into the ground.

Now, that seems to be my destiny.....

However, we never did get independent verification of the problem she reportedly had.

stickguy

just got back from the BMW X3 driving event. Man, was that a nice car (truck? station wagon?)

whatever, it is much nicer than the old ones. Registered, listened to a dog an pony walk around, then went outside. They did an xDrive demo (pretty neat actually) on a GLK than the X3 (guess which one was better!), then let us drive (solo). They also had a Q5, GLK and Lexus RX350 on hand, but I did not bother with any of them.

drove a basic X3 (2.8, with nav but no sport package) and sat in a 35i with sport.

The "small" engine drove fine, and man that thing scooted when I floored it coming up an on ramp. 80 in no time. Not really seeing the need for the big motor. Very comfortable too, and acres of room in the back seat. Actually wish you could slide the bench up, to get more cargo room, since there is room to spare in the middle, and the back is never big enough!

nice seats too. Took a little getting used to the brakes. And I am pretty sure my wife (who was not there) would get totally befuddled by the strange little gear shifter. But overall, very nice drive.

Oh, one thing I did notice was a busy tranny. Almost felt like driving a semi, since about every 5 mph/200 rpm it shifted. Must have been in 4th by the time I hit 35! and still plenty more to come.

It was also impossible to maintain a 25mph speed in a residential zone. I thought I was crawling, and turns out I was doing 45. Oops.

I also loved the sport seats in the turbo. I don't want the sport package or bigger wheels, but would seriously consider ordering the seats ala carte.

I am sure my wife would love it. Only real problem (other than the pesky issue of cost, since one equipped pretty basically like I would get it was almost 43K) is if my wife could learn to travel lighter (my guess, NO!), since there is way less cargo room than in the van, especially when the back seats are up. Not so bad with only 1 kid tagging along.

absolutely the size/type of vehicle for us once we are done transporting kids on any regualr basis!

fezo

Actually my daughter loved that old Camry. Just didn't make such a great decision on the "can I get through this puddle?" front.

michaellno

Just didn't make such a great decision on the "can I get through this puddle?" front.

Wasn't the "puddle" really a temporary extension of Absecon Bay?

fezo

Well, Barnegat Bay but close enough.....

Actually teh puddle wasn't quite connected to the bay - one of those things that just rise to the surface in nor'easters. They are part of life on barrier islands but that fact seems to have been lost on her....

kyfdx

Didn't check out the Q5?

I like the looks of that one, the best... but, the A-pillar seems very far forward, when I try to get in..