Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

au1994

nyccarguy said:

au1994 said:

There’s a $379 36/10 lease on the Silverado LT Crew Cab 4wd out there.

Catches are its the turbo 4 if that bothers you and $3499 down after all offers. I hardly ever see that combo in inventory around here. We must like our V8’s!

Hey, it is a lease. Don't knock it 'til you try it. If it was cheap enough, I'd completely go for a 4cyl Turbo Silverado or Sierra.

It’s tempting. I think the Silverado is really nice looking and the inside isn’t a bad place to be either. The old question of do I want to daily something that big always comes up. Plus both the turbo 4 and the V8 won’t be passing many gas stations.

suydam

We only wanted the PHEV so didnt drive the hybrid. They generally had one or two on the lot at any given time and they sold quickly, so not much choice on color. You would probably be able to negotiate better on a hybrid. That said, leasing was more attractive financially on the PHEV and they did negotiate down from MSRP, so it wasnt as much of a take it or leave it situation as in recent years. All EV is the best in terms of deals right now. Like a Kia Niro or something like that. I think the Sportage really benefits from the electric motor. I would imagine its rather poky in gas form only.

suydam

In hybrid mode its great. I dont see any difference driving it in ev or hybtid. Very smooth

pensfan83

au1994 said:

ab348 said:

Sarah N Tuned tested the turbo 4 and liked it IIRC. Drive it and decide I guess.

The stats are impressive…310 hp torque 430.

I think that's now the standard engine across the Colorado/Canyon lineup.

nyccarguy

pensfan83 said:

au1994 said:

ab348 said:

Sarah N Tuned tested the turbo 4 and liked it IIRC. Drive it and decide I guess.

The stats are impressive…310 hp torque 430.

I think that's now the standard engine across the Colorado/Canyon lineup.

Is that matched to the 10 speed AT?

greg128

au1994 said:

Put the Jeep into Carvana again: $33200, residual is $35. Magically if I trade into a new car with them, they estimate I will save the difference on taxes. I did look at Mavericks, 16 total 2 in the buying process and none of the remaining 14 blew my skirt up from a color, mileage or feature standpoint.

On whim I hit webuyanycar.com. Not sure if they are nationwide and I think they are fairly new. They hit it at $29,100.

Oh and its finally in for 2 recalls and its last Jeep wave oil change and tire rotation.

Try Carmax.
Our 2018 Lacrosse was recently sold to Carmax for $19K. Carmax offered $16 and other offers were less.

stickguy

The turbo 4 does not bother me. The size of that barge does though.

Got a ride today in a new bronco. Surprisingly comfy on the highway. Noisy off road tires but other than that, not objectionable. The guy that owns it absolutely loves it and takes it off roading at some level.

Michaell

Lots of texting with the daughter (the girls are working 6 days a week during the summer) ... here's where we stand:

No, the $7500 doesn't apply to the PHEV, but Colorado does offer a separate $5350 tax credit (applied at time of sale) on both PHEV and EV vehicles. That shrinks the delta to about $3K, so perhaps possible to stretch the budget.

She looked at the color chart and decided white would be her first choice. Shew! The PHEV comes in a "Jungle Green" and I thought she'd want that, as I'd guess it would be impossible to get. There is a white one on the website of a dealer here in Denver, but I don't know if it's in stock or in transit. Speaking of dealers...

...the one closest to us has a $2K markup on all Sportage PHEVs. The white one I mentioned is at a dealer on the other side of town, but they have a $400 discount from MSRP, in addition to the CO credit. $699 doc fee, but that's pretty standard here. In addition, this dealer will set up an appointment to do a 'video walk around', where you can ask the salesman questions, you can set up a test drive appointment and they will bring the car to you, and if you pull the trigger, they will deliver the car and bring the paperwork with them to sign. Don't have to step on the lot at all! Big deal for my daughter, who would prefer all business to be transacted that way.

Now I need to look at the standard features and options, to ensure that it has all the bells and whistles she is looking for.

Yes, the MINI is running well, at the moment. She just spent $2500 on service and maintenance not many months ago, so it doesn't need anything. I think she is looking for something a bit bigger and more comfortable.

xwesx

Hah! White. She should totally go for the jungle green.

kyfdx

What about a Kona EV?

SEL trim is around $39K. Minus $7500 + $5350 = $26K.

explorerx4

You might be able to find Jungle Green if other people don't want it.

pensfan83

@nyccarguy said:
Is that matched to the 10 speed AT?

I think so. Having sat in the Colorado at the auto show it's pretty nice inside and offers a nice array of trims and options. I don't think they lease well though and with interest rates what they are it would be nearly as much as the Acura.

explorerx4

Colorado has an 8 speed. Silverado has a 10 speed trans.

Michaell

kyfdx said:

What about a Kona EV?

SEL trim is around $39K. Minus $7500 + $5350 = $26K.

FWD only....

And, maybe not big enough, after the MINI.

I was pushing the Corolla Cross Hybrid, which is AWD.

She asked about the Kia Seltos, which isn't available as a hybrid or PHEV.

qbrozen

The new 1500 GM trucks seem so much bigger than mine. I feel like I’m in a compact when I’m near one of those. Although, in reality, it is only about 2” bigger in each dimension.

stickguy

the thing that messes me up is how tall (and long) the hoods are now on those beast trucks. Very had to tell what's going on out front.

nyccarguy

A customer of mine - one of my best actually pulled up in a 2023 Raptor. It looks great in white without the decals on the bed. It’s a leftover he got a few weeks ago.

suydam

“the one closest to us has a $2K markup on all Sportage PHEVs. The white one I mentioned is at a dealer on the other side of town, but they have a $400 discount from MSRP, in addition to the CO credit. $699 doc fee, but that's pretty standard here.”
The PHEVs, especially the highest trim Prestige, are the hardest to negotiate as there aren’t many on a lot and they sell as fast as they arrive. The one we first looked at sold in 3 days, and another (the one we bought) had just arrived. You may have better luck with the hybrid version.
The Hyundai Tucson is basically the same car (my neighbor has one) but they tend to be priced a little higher. And don’t even get me started on the RAV4. Priced like they forgot it’s a Toyota. And I think the Hyundai/Kia versions are better.

Michaell

I think she’s landed on the PHEV - the base X-Line.

The white one I referenced earlier is the Prestige. The same dealer has a blue X-Line, which is her preferred color.

But, it’s in transit and won’t be here for 10 days. The dealer will call us when it arrives so we can take it for a test drive, and she can see the color in person. They aren’t getting many more - a black Prestige later this month then a couple more in august.

Other dealers have markups on the PHEV - my daughter is willing to wait for the right deal.

benjaminh

On my recent test drive of the CX-50 there were a lot of positives, but some weaker areas as well. The positive is that even the entry-level Select model is well-equipped and even seems luxurious. It's a great value for the money, especially with the current rebates. But the genius of Honda packaging was emphasized. My wife's CR-V is smaller and yet has significantly more interior room and cargo room. The CX-50 is 185.8 inches long, compared to a 180.6 for a 2018 CRV, but the Honda has 39 cubic feet of storage compared to 31 for the Mazda. The CX-50 weighs about 200 pounds more but has a less powerful engine, making it feel a bit weak for passing. 15 years ago it would have felt fine, but today having a 0-60 time of 8.5 seconds to me seems a bit slow compared to the 7.6 time of the CRV, or the 7 second time of my TLX 4-cylinder. The visibility out the back of the CX-50 wasn't very good either. It was adequate, and blind-spot monitoring is standard, but...I don't like the trend in auto design that's been going on for more than a decade of raising the belt-line and making the rear windows smaller.

This brings me to the car we're now focused on—the 2025 Camry with standard hybrid power that gets 50 mpg, and can go 0-60 in about 7.5 seconds. The Camry weighs about 200 pounds less than the CX-50, and the Toyota has about 40 more horsepower.

Less cargo capacity with a Camry, obviously, but according to most reviews it's fun to drive. The challenge is that prices have been above msrp recently, but as Toyota's huge factory in Kentucky ramps up production that might be starting to change. My local Toyota dealer yesterday listed a base Camry LE model for $28k, or about 1500 off of list. By the time I called to test drive it that one had already been sold. But since we don't really need a new car until August, there's a chance that by then supplies will be better and discounts available.

Since the Camry gets almost double the mpg of the CX-50 the annual savings would be about $1000 a year. Blind-spot monitoring is standard on the Camry, but rear visibility looks like it would be excellent in any case.

benjaminh

In the local used market, this was the one that most appealed to me yesterday. Compared to, say, a new Sentra for $22k or so, this seems like a lot more car—and a lot more fun....



"You NEED to check this out, EXCELLENT condition inside and out !!! Highly Optioned BMW including: PREMIUM PACKAGE, cold weather package, DRIVER ASSISTANCE PACKAGE, luxury line package, HARMAN KARDON AUDIO, driving assistance plus package !!! LOCAL TRADE plus 100 point INSPECTION plus Huffman platinum WARRANTY plus 3 YEARS of maintenance INCLUDED plus a 7 DAY like it or exchange it GUARANTEE gives you added PEACE of MIND when searching for your new vehicle but what would you expect from a LOCAL FAMILY OWNED business since 1969 !!!

Mineral Grey Metallic 2016 BMW 5 Series 528i xDrive 4D Sedan 8-Speed Automatic 2.0L I4 AWD You know you want a ONE OWNER !!!, Previous owner HIGHLY RECOMMENDED this vehicle !!!, This isn't a AUCTION CAR - this is a LOCAL trade !!!, 3 months of W-A-R-R-A-N-T-Y included = PEACE of mind !!!, 3 YEARS COMPLEMENTARY maintenance included SAVES you future expense !!!, all wheel drive, MOONROOF, backup camera, HEADS UP DISPLAY, heated front and rear seats, HEATED STEERING WHEEL, leather, PUSH BUTTON STARTING WITH SMART KEY, Bluetooth®, Bluetooth® STREAMING AUDIO, premium upgraded audio, PARKING SENSORS. 22/34 City/Highway MPG."

stickguy

Good value on that Camry. I have read very good things about them. If you want 2 sedans. I couldn’t go back to not having a utility vehicle if some kind.

Nice price on the BMW. But I assume at those miles it is going to have some pricy maintenance needs. Would definitely want that inspected by a marque expert.

nyccarguy

@benjaminh - the new Camry does get excellent write ups. Have you thought of passing your beloved TLX on to your daughter and getting a new Camry for yourself?

benjaminh

If you were meticulous about maintenance on that used BMW, and had amazing luck, that 2016 528i could be a great car. But over the long term of say 8 years/100k miles it seems almost certain there would be big (or even huge) expenses for repairs. Insurance costs would probably be high as well.

If you option up the 2025 Camry LE with AWD and the power seat/smart entry package it does add up to about $32,000—about 19k more than the BMW. But the Camry would likely go for 12 years/200k miles with just scheduled maintenance, and would save you that $1k or more a year on gas. The AWD Camry has a 0-60 of around 7 seconds, and with 232 hp is not far from the power of that BMW from 2016, which has 240 hp from its 2 liter turbo. The Camry, which has dual injection, both port and direct, won't have carbon build-up issues, and should be reliable to 200k. My guess is that you'd need to replace the turbo and some electronics on the BMW, with bills for those things reaching maybe around 8k or so...? So for the long-run time horizon of ten years or so I think you'd end up ahead with a new Camry.

Anyway, although this reviewer goes over the top in trying to say that the 2025 Camry LE is close to being an economy Lexus, it does seems like a nice car for the money. And my wife likes that Ocean Gem color.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13HEqePXIU0

benjaminh

nyccarguy said:

@benjaminh - the new Camry does get excellent write ups. Have you thought of passing your beloved TLX on to your daughter and getting a new Camry for yourself?

That's an interesting idea, which I hadn't thought of. But I feel like the Camry would be better for my wife or daughter.

I'd probably enjoy driving the new Camry, which is one of the reasons I want to get it more than a CX-50. But I'd miss the 4-wheel steering of the TLX, as well as the ELS sound system. Also the Camry LE has 205 tires to make that 50 mpg. Those are great for cost when getting replacement tires, but performance in spirited cornering (which I confess I kinda like to do, esp when alone in the car) is probably limited with those tires. The tires on my TLX are 225, and so not that wide, but still they make a difference. Plus I love the Michelin CC2 tires on my TLX. It's impressive how much they improve handling and braking compared to the Goodyears that came with the car.

I'm too thrifty to just ditch the stock tires on a new car, but if we get a Camry I would plan to get Michelins after 40k or so. But my wife and my daughter drive slowly and cautiously. The idea of taking a corner is foreign to them. They don't think of driving as fun, even though I've tried gently to encourage them. We sometimes joke that when I'm driving they need to use their "oh jeeze" handles.

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:

roadburner said:

One perk of the AMG Private Lounge is occasional access to some cool items. This year I was given a big (27”x17”) wall calendar. The month of June is entitled Green Hell celebrating the Nürburgring 24 Hours

They used to make those calendars back in the 00s-early teens when I was in that group. I eventually gave them all away. They also arranged a MB factory (engine) tour in Affalterbach I was able to partake in.

A coworker used to be a sales rep for Snap On Tools. He said he still had numerous old promotional calendars from decades ago with pictures of girls for each month. These became politically incorrect long ago and are no longer distributed.

He thought they might have some nostalgic value and took them to a flea market. To his suprise everybody wanted one and a small bidding war broke out. Some were sold to women who wanted them for boyfriend or hubby.

Funny you mention snap on tools calendars. For YEARS (decades), Ridgid used to give out calendars very similar to the ones you describe. We'd literally get stacks of them every year. One year they started sending calendars out based on prior year's sales volume. We had a slow year with them the year before coupled with the fact that the year before that we placed a large order in December. They sent us three calendars. Then they stopped making the calendars all together.

My long time indie mechanic used to give out NAPA calendars with glossy pictures of classic cars. I really miss those now that he retired.

au1994

I had a Camry SE a few months ago as a rental and found it to be a great package. I put 300+ miles on it and it was comfortable and great on gas. A little pokey off the line but a fine cruiser. I had a 6’5” passenger with me and he was comfortable the whole time.

oldfarmer50

breld said:

au1994 said:

Magically if I trade into a new car with them, they estimate I will save the difference on taxes.

This made me laugh.

I may have mentioned it before, but it burns me up when a salesperson/manager boasts of the tax savings on trade and says, "it's as if we're giving you "this much" in trade due to the tax savings." I understand what they're getting at, comparing their trade to a buy bid at Carmax, but it's simply becoming a tactic for dealers to lower their trade offers. If I'm in a good mood, I usually just reply, with a smile, "the value is the value...taxes are completely separate."

If you were making an offer for a private party deal how would you factor in the tax money the seller would lose by selling to you instead of the dealer?

kyfdx

oldfarmer50 said:

breld said:

au1994 said:

Magically if I trade into a new car with them, they estimate I will save the difference on taxes.

This made me laugh.

I may have mentioned it before, but it burns me up when a salesperson/manager boasts of the tax savings on trade and says, "it's as if we're giving you "this much" in trade due to the tax savings." I understand what they're getting at, comparing their trade to a buy bid at Carmax, but it's simply becoming a tactic for dealers to lower their trade offers. If I'm in a good mood, I usually just reply, with a smile, "the value is the value...taxes are completely separate."

If you were making an offer for a private party deal how would you factor in the tax money the seller would lose by selling to you instead of the dealer?

You wouldn’t, but they might.

Private party values are always higher than trade-in values, anyway. Plus, not every private party vehicle is going to be traded, either way.

oldfarmer50

au1994 said:

ab348 said:

Sarah N Tuned tested the turbo 4 and liked it IIRC. Drive it and decide I guess.

The stats are impressive…310 hp torque 430.

The horsepower figures are similar to my F-150 with the V6 but that torque is substantially higher. Towing is better too, 9000 vs. 6000 pounds. Gas mileage is similar at 19 combined.

ab348

@benjaminh - Nice to hear from you again.

I have learned to take most YouTube car reviews with several large grains of salt. Even the ones that I like, such as Motormouth, tend to not be very forthcoming with criticisms because they are dependent on manufacturers to provide them access to their press fleet and events for content. So a lot of them tend to say everything is wonderful except for some minor things related to their personal tastes, and is the bestest thing ever, even if they exhibit well-known flaws. And some, like savagegeese, while offering some criticisms, have biases towards certain brands they like (in their case Mazda fits that bill) which brings their overall credibility into question.

I discovered this fairly recently when I decided to take a deep dive into the Mazda CX-70 and 90. That was the rare example where the glowing reviews generally were offset to some degree by a number of criticisms even from the usual soft reviewers. The variation was enough to make me look into other Mazda reviews after I crossed the 70/90 off my personal list, mostly the CX-5 and CX-50 when I thought perhaps they would be a viable alternative, where I discovered more of the same. I had difficulty initially understanding why those 2 vehicles continue to coexist on Mazda lots given they are very similar in size. Apparently the 50 was supposed to be the successor to the 5, but the 5 continued to sell well while the 50 seemed to disappoint the loyalists of the brand by having a torsion beam rear axle instead of a multilink and having some build/material quality lapses. I suspect if Mazda had simply discontinued the 5, the 50 would have done much better but instead they allow it to hang around and it continues to sell better. A very odd decision but Mazda makes many of those, like clinging to a 6-speed automatic for most of their vehicles (the 70 and 90 finally got an in-house 8-speed which has shown to be problematic) and their uniquely bizarre infotainment system which you either love or hate. Regardless, you hear things about Mazda from a subset of buyers who are disappointed with the rattles, rust, excess of black plastic exterior trim and other issues that crop up, enough so that I tend to discount them. Their use of a single 2.5 4-cylinder for most of their fleet either in NA or turbo mode also is curious. The NA engine seems pretty good but the Turbo has had head gasket issues apparently.

The new Camry seems a very attractive car and while I have yet to see one in the flesh, the reviews make it sound very appealing. The Toyota hybrid system seems one of the best and I would trust their products much more than any Hyundai/Kia product. I do not know what the situation is in the US market or your area specifically, but up here the biggest liability is the H/K dealer experience and the corporate support should you develop any problems. You hear horror stories here about having to deal with H/K dealers on warranty issues or other problems, and I gather that H/K Canada corporate is often dismissive if you try to get them to help. I do not hear those things about Toyota. The Camry also seems to be well-priced especially when compared to other new Toyota products like the Tacoma or the just-released Crown Signia, which looks like an appealing package but is way up there in price.

suydam

Best YouTube reviews for me are the ones by Alex on Autos. They are detailed and very informative.

corvette

The thing I really like about Alex's reviews are that he goes over the same exhaustive list of points with each vehicle, so it's easy to compare one review to another. I also like Sarah-n-Tuned's reviews.

roadburner

benjaminh said:

In the local used market, this was the one that most appealed to me yesterday. Compared to, say, a new Sentra for $22k or so, this seems like a lot more car—and a lot more fun....



"You NEED to check this out, EXCELLENT condition inside and out !!! Highly Optioned BMW including: PREMIUM PACKAGE, cold weather package, DRIVER ASSISTANCE PACKAGE, luxury line package, HARMAN KARDON AUDIO, driving assistance plus package !!! LOCAL TRADE plus 100 point INSPECTION plus Huffman platinum WARRANTY plus 3 YEARS of maintenance INCLUDED plus a 7 DAY like it or exchange it GUARANTEE gives you added PEACE of MIND when searching for your new vehicle but what would you expect from a LOCAL FAMILY OWNED business since 1969 !!!

Mineral Grey Metallic 2016 BMW 5 Series 528i xDrive 4D Sedan 8-Speed Automatic 2.0L I4 AWD You know you want a ONE OWNER !!!, Previous owner HIGHLY RECOMMENDED this vehicle !!!, This isn't a AUCTION CAR - this is a LOCAL trade !!!, 3 months of W-A-R-R-A-N-T-Y included = PEACE of mind !!!, 3 YEARS COMPLEMENTARY maintenance included SAVES you future expense !!!, all wheel drive, MOONROOF, backup camera, HEADS UP DISPLAY, heated front and rear seats, HEATED STEERING WHEEL, leather, PUSH BUTTON STARTING WITH SMART KEY, Bluetooth®, Bluetooth® STREAMING AUDIO, premium upgraded audio, PARKING SENSORS. 22/34 City/Highway MPG."

Deadly dull.

jmonroe1

benjaminh said:

nyccarguy said:

@benjaminh - the new Camry does get excellent write ups. Have you thought of passing your beloved TLX on to your daughter and getting a new Camry for yourself?

That's an interesting idea, which I hadn't thought of. But I feel like the Camry would be better for my wife or daughter.

I'd probably enjoy driving the new Camry, which is one of the reasons I want to get it more than a CX-50. But I'd miss the 4-wheel steering of the TLX, as well as the ELS sound system. Also the Camry LE has 205 tires to make that 50 mpg. Those are great for cost when getting replacement tires, but performance in spirited cornering (which I confess I kinda like to do, esp when alone in the car) is probably limited with those tires. The tires on my TLX are 225, and so not that wide, but still they make a difference. Plus I love the Michelin CC2 tires on my TLX. It's impressive how much they improve handling and braking compared to the Goodyears that came with the car.

I'm too thrifty to just ditch the stock tires on a new car, but if we get a Camry I would plan to get Michelins after 40k or so. But my wife and my daughter drive slowly and cautiously. The idea of taking a corner is foreign to them. They don't think of driving as fun, even though I've tried gently to encourage them. We sometimes joke that when I'm driving they need to use their "oh jeeze" handles.

————————————————-
I wouldn’t say I’m a “spirited” driver but I’ve always wanted the biggest engine for the car I was buying. When I want power, I wanted it NOW, not when the car feels like getting up to speed.

About your wife and daughter looking for the “oh Jeeze” handles that something like what Mrs. j does when I step on it to get around someone. Only she grabs for the assist handle above the door but only after she throws herself back into the seat saying “do you have to do that? And stop telling me you want to get away from crazy drivers. You’re the one that’s driving crazy”.

I just take it in stride. Thinking to myself, (I’m too smart to say it out loud)… ‘what would you expect from someone who has never hit 3K RPM in her life’?

jmonroe

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

breld said:

au1994 said:

Magically if I trade into a new car with them, they estimate I will save the difference on taxes.

This made me laugh.

I may have mentioned it before, but it burns me up when a salesperson/manager boasts of the tax savings on trade and says, "it's as if we're giving you "this much" in trade due to the tax savings." I understand what they're getting at, comparing their trade to a buy bid at Carmax, but it's simply becoming a tactic for dealers to lower their trade offers. If I'm in a good mood, I usually just reply, with a smile, "the value is the value...taxes are completely separate."

If you were making an offer for a private party deal how would you factor in the tax money the seller would lose by selling to you instead of the dealer?

————————————————
To be perfectly honest, I wouldn’t care anything about what seller goes through concerning his taxes/finances. I’m only concerned about mine.

I’ve heard folks on these forms saying they wanted to be fair to the dealer when they were negotiating, realizing that the dealer had to make a profit. To me, that’s laughable. I’ve got enough problems on my side of the negotiating table than to be worried about the dealers side. Maybe I’m just heartless but that’s me.

jmonroe

ab348

An 8 y-o BMW 5-series with over 100,000 miles… what could possibly go wrong?

kyfdx

ab348 said:

An 8 y-o BMW 5-series with over 100,000 miles… what could possibly go wrong?

It wouldn't even be much fun...

Michaell

@breld, you were mentioning the depreciation on the Audi e-Tron RS.

Just looked it up - there are still lease programs available for the 2023 model - standard $7500 EV credit but a whopping $26,000 in dealer cash available.

No wonder the depreciation on them is so steep.

Michaell

@fintail, please pick up the white courtesy phone

Michaell

Member needs help evaluating a used minivan

jmonroe1

Michaell said:

@breld, you were mentioning the depreciation on the Audi e-Tron RS.

Just looked it up - there are still lease programs available for the 2023 model - standard $7500 EV credit but a whopping $26,000 in dealer cash available.

No wonder the depreciation on them is so steep.

————————————————
That is a whopping offer.

Do you think they’d give you half
of that and not bother with going through the whole leasing thingy? They should take that deal since they’d probably have to give away even more cash in a few months. Your offer would really be helping them out.

jmonroe

au1994

pensfan83 said:

@nyccarguy said:

Is that matched to the 10 speed AT?

I think so. Having sat in the Colorado at the auto show it's pretty nice inside and offers a nice array of trims and options. I don't think they lease well though and with interest rates what they are it would be nearly as much as the Acura.

Colorado and Canyon are very nice. And yes they don’t lease worth a…

kyfdx

Gonna park this in my driveway

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-freightliner-3-car-enclosed-hauler-2/

stickguy

I really don’t see the need for AWD on a Camry hybrid.

breld

oldfarmer50 said:

breld said:

au1994 said:

Magically if I trade into a new car with them, they estimate I will save the difference on taxes.

This made me laugh.

I may have mentioned it before, but it burns me up when a salesperson/manager boasts of the tax savings on trade and says, "it's as if we're giving you "this much" in trade due to the tax savings." I understand what they're getting at, comparing their trade to a buy bid at Carmax, but it's simply becoming a tactic for dealers to lower their trade offers. If I'm in a good mood, I usually just reply, with a smile, "the value is the value...taxes are completely separate."

If you were making an offer for a private party deal how would you factor in the tax money the seller would lose by selling to you instead of the dealer?

Not that I've done too many, but my approach to friendly deals is just make me whole...trade value plus tax savings. Neutral for the seller and generally a good deal for the buyer.

kyfdx

breld said:

oldfarmer50 said:

breld said:

au1994 said:

Magically if I trade into a new car with them, they estimate I will save the difference on taxes.

This made me laugh.

I may have mentioned it before, but it burns me up when a salesperson/manager boasts of the tax savings on trade and says, "it's as if we're giving you "this much" in trade due to the tax savings." I understand what they're getting at, comparing their trade to a buy bid at Carmax, but it's simply becoming a tactic for dealers to lower their trade offers. If I'm in a good mood, I usually just reply, with a smile, "the value is the value...taxes are completely separate."

If you were making an offer for a private party deal how would you factor in the tax money the seller would lose by selling to you instead of the dealer?

Not that I've done too many, but my approach to friendly deals is just make me whole...trade value plus tax savings. Neutral for the seller and generally a good deal for the buyer.

Can confirm

benjaminh

stickguy said:

I really don’t see the need for AWD on a Camry hybrid.

I'm guessing that putting the standard 225 horsepower down onto 205 width Firestone tires might possibly give a somewhat spirited driver some accidental tire squeal/spin on acceleration sometimes. Not sure. It's probably not a problem that will affect my wife, but for me....

This car would likely be used for frequent trips between Louisville and Columbus, even in December and other months when the weather and roads aren't so nice. It's also somewhat hilly in our neighborhood, and so when it gets a little snowy, which is usually off and on for 2-3 months of the year, AWD might be useful for getting to work and going to the grocery store. My wife's awd CR-V has been good at dealing with these conditions.

PS Supposedly the AWD for the Camry hybrid only subtracts 1 mpg. The cost of the AWD option is $1525.

xwesx

benjaminh said:

I'm too thrifty to just ditch the stock tires on a new car, but if we get a Camry I would plan to get Michelins after 40k or so. But my wife and my daughter drive slowly and cautiously. The idea of taking a corner is foreign to them. They don't think of driving as fun, even though I've tried gently to encourage them. We sometimes joke that when I'm driving they need to use their "oh jeeze" handles.

Haha! It sounds like you're doing it just right, then!

oldfarmer50

breld said:

oldfarmer50 said:

breld said:

au1994 said:

Magically if I trade into a new car with them, they estimate I will save the difference on taxes.

This made me laugh.

I may have mentioned it before, but it burns me up when a salesperson/manager boasts of the tax savings on trade and says, "it's as if we're giving you "this much" in trade due to the tax savings." I understand what they're getting at, comparing their trade to a buy bid at Carmax, but it's simply becoming a tactic for dealers to lower their trade offers. If I'm in a good mood, I usually just reply, with a smile, "the value is the value...taxes are completely separate."

If you were making an offer for a private party deal how would you factor in the tax money the seller would lose by selling to you instead of the dealer?

Not that I've done too many, but my approach to friendly deals is just make me whole...trade value plus tax savings. Neutral for the seller and generally a good deal for the buyer.

Thanks, that’s how I thought it should go.