Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Michaell

stickguy said:

I didn't grind. I asked what they were going for and he sent the price list in email. No clue if they take an offer lower, but I already said to them I was probably waiting for Christmas, and they keep calling begging to take a 2014 off there hands!

The downside is that there probably won't be any 2014's around by the end of the year - and if there are, it'll be a trim level or color that is less than popular.

isell - I agree that it's expensive to run a dealership, but they have multiple income streams:

New cars

Used cars

Service

Parts

It's possible that the dealer principal allows for lower margins on new cars to get a larger customer base with which to sell services to.

Also, with the advent of mega-dealerships (hey, even Warren Buffet is getting into the act), they can afford smaller margins on each deal.

I've always believed that no deal is signed off by the dealership that loses money - they may break even, but why sell something for less than what you paid for it?

isellhondas

With a 1500.00 incentive it sounds like you've hit bottom but you can certainly ask for more.

By Christmas I would think the 2014's would be all gone.

Your best strategy would be to show up in person with intent to buy and drive home. This puts you in a position of strength and let's them know you are serious.

Good luck!

stickguy

One dealer near me still has 14 new 2013 models in stock.

stickguy

But if I buy it, then I own it, right? That sounds scary!

graphicguy

isellhondas said:

With a 1500.00 incentive it sounds like you've hit bottom but you can certainly ask for more.

By Christmas I would think the 2014's would be all gone.

Your best strategy would be to show up in person with intent to buy and drive home. This puts you in a position of strength and let's them know you are serious.

Good luck!

Craig...I have the utmost respect for you. You were, and continue to be a great contributor here. I know you were "in the biz" for quite a few years.

But, the auto industry created their own demons. First they started with the "cloak and dagger" pricing, until the gov't forced them to post the car prices as a Monroney (sp?) Sticker. Then came the advent of the add-on stickers, because the MSRP sticker wasn't enough, they started ADM stickers (this started around me when the Toyotas and Honda stores were first opened).

This has gone on for quite some time. While I do think things are better today, we still see some of that...."If we, will you?" games apply. Even when I make my one time offers, inform them they're one time offers, some will still try to grind me for the last nickel. So, when a customer does the same thing, all of a sudden it gets a bit wonky because the consumer is conditioned to believe by the dealerships that unless they play the grind game, you can't get a good deal.

There's no doubt in my mind that with the advent of the internet, it takes a bit more "creativity" for the dealers and manufacturers to hide some of the profit they're trying to make in the form of unadvertised incentives.

That's the only way you can explain $4K off an Accord, or my recent $15K off a Caddy.

This is why I can't understand the pushback Tesla is getting. Dealers have been pouting for years about the amount of information the customers have regarding pricing. Here's an opportunity to finally get around that and do business like Apple stores do. But, apparently the "fear factor" holds them back.

Personally, I've never noted one good thing that happened when fear was involved.

Mr_Shiftright

This is a lovely car isn't it. A 2009 DB9. All yours for $119,000. V-12, 6,700 miles, 470HP, 185 mph, paddle shift.....WHAT??! A 6-speed automatic? Hmmmm.....

On the bright side, someone took a depreciation hit of $80,000 in 5 years or so, and the car is just like new. Also, if you're on the fence here, it does come with the official Aston Martin umbrella (and I'm sure it's a nice one).

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

This is a lovely car isn't it. A 2009 DB9. All yours for $119,000. V-12, 6,700 miles, 470HP, 185 mph, paddle shift.....WHAT??! A 6-speed automatic? Hmmmm.....

On the bright side, someone took a depreciation hit of $80,000 in 5 years or so, and the car is just like new. Also, if you're on the fence here, it does come with the official Aston Martin umbrella (and I'm sure it's a nice one).

What I wouldn't give to have $125K extra (inc taxes) burning a hole in my pocket.....;)

stever

"What once was the holy grail of in-the-know deal-seekers — uncovering the dealer's "invoice price" (what the dealer paid) for a new car — now is easy to find on the Net.

But at the same time, the industry is making that "price" increasingly meaningless.

Automakers have fattened dealers' "invoice" or wholesale price so it looks as if they're paying a lot more than they used to — perhaps 95% of the retail sticker price, vs. 85% before Internet car shopping began in the mid-1990s.

But that modern invoice number now is padded enough to let automakers send significant sums back to dealers in hard-to-track give-backs and bonuses that make the dealers' real (and well-hidden) wholesale cost for the vehicle well below "invoice."

Surprising tips for car shopping in Internet age (usatoday.com)

jayrider

stever said:

"What once was the holy grail of in-the-know deal-seekers — uncovering the dealer's "invoice price" (what the dealer paid) for a new car — now is easy to find on the Net.

But at the same time, the industry is making that "price" increasingly meaningless.

Automakers have fattened dealers' "invoice" or wholesale price so it looks as if they're paying a lot more than they used to — perhaps 95% of the retail sticker price, vs. 85% before Internet car shopping began in the mid-1990s.

But that modern invoice number now is padded enough to let automakers send significant sums back to dealers in hard-to-track give-backs and bonuses that make the dealers' real (and well-hidden) wholesale cost for the vehicle well below "invoice."

Surprising tips for car shopping in Internet age (usatoday.com)

SAY IT AIN'T SO STEVER !

stickguy

so, went out car looking today. My wife decided she had work to do, so passed on this trip (I believe she has had enough of the whole process, and only wants to hear that I need a ride to pick up the new car!). Daughter called right when I was heading out, so got a late start.

headed to the Honda dealer. made it as far as the Hyundai dealer. after some chatting and a test drive, was after 8:30 so no time for a 2nd stop.

drove a 2015 Sonata SE. overall, a nice car. IMO it looked nice. No, not as "swoopy" but classier, and much better visibility. And the rear seat is huge. I also found the interior (dash, center stack) to be a nice upgrade, visually and functionally.

as usual, a good value. SE with pop equip package (power drivers seat, rear view camera) came in at a sticker of $23,370. About the only thing it did not have that would be nice is some sort of blind spot monitoring. other than that, and a moonroof option, it was not missing anything that mattered to me.

without negotiating, just looking at their website, could buy it for $20,990. Lot of car for that money.

Did not get out on the open road, but it seemed to ride/handle fine on back streets. Peppy enough, quiet and smooth. A nice appliance, especially for the money. Nothing that is going to get your blood flowing of course. But very competitive (and IMO much better looking) to a Camry!

will go back tomorrow and look at the Accord again I think. I just wanted to see them back to back.

ab348

I would much rather buy the refreshed Camry than the Sonata.

stickguy

also sent in an internet request on the Camry XLE I liked (leftover 14.5). Needless to say, big discount.

MSRP /quote buy price
2014 Camry XLE: $26,912/ 22,400 (23,900 with 0% financing)
2014 Accord EX 26,440/ 22,448
2015 Sonata SE 23,370/ 20.990
2015 Legacy prem. 24,590/ 22,815 (no roof, the NYC car. A roof car = $23,790)


The Camry and Accord are leftovers, but make up for it by having moonroofs! Other than that, not really much difference overall in equipment from what I can tell.

If I was to get either of the 14s, I would just tell them $21,500, take it or leave it.

If I pass on the leftovers, will just be back to end of your shopping for my own Christmas present. Subaru, the Mazda 3, who knows!

venture

stever said:

"What once was the holy grail of in-the-know deal-seekers — uncovering the dealer's "invoice price" (what the dealer paid) for a new car — now is easy to find on the Net.

But at the same time, the industry is making that "price" increasingly meaningless.

Automakers have fattened dealers' "invoice" or wholesale price so it looks as if they're paying a lot more than they used to — perhaps 95% of the retail sticker price, vs. 85% before Internet car shopping began in the mid-1990s.

But that modern invoice number now is padded enough to let automakers send significant sums back to dealers in hard-to-track give-backs and bonuses that make the dealers' real (and well-hidden) wholesale cost for the vehicle well below "invoice."

Surprising tips for car shopping in Internet age (usatoday.com)

When I bought my Fusion in February, I was trading a '13 Escape that I bought from the same dealer from the same salesman. He said they would sell me the Fusion at their cost. I asked him, "At cost or at invoice"? He just chuckled a little and said, "At invoice".

rayainsw

I drove a 2015 Dodge Challenger this past weekend.
I find the 2015 Charger attractive for several reasons, and the Challenger has an identical engine and transmission.
Since the new Chargers will likely not be on dealer lots for another 3 or 4 weeks [ they started production one week ago ]
and since I am sometimes [ ? ] impatient,
I decided to take the opportunity to drive the first V8 Challenger I have seen locally with the [ ZF origin ] eight speed automatic and the steering wheel mounted paddle shifters.

I specifically wanted to evaluate the behavior of the V8 and the automatic, in both “D”rive and manual modes.

Short version: I was quite impressed with the acceleration
[ the weight of the 2DR Challenger is very close to the 4DR Charger ], the transmission and the overall feel of this large coupe.

Bottom line: The Charger is on my current ‘short list’.

A couple of other observations – of interest to me & probably few others: Confirmed very low RPM at cruise = less than 2,000 RPM at 80! In my GTI, 80 = 3,000 RPM.
[ This is even with 3.07:1 final drive ratio that I believe comes with the ‘Super Track Pack’ on this Challenger - vs 2.62 on a Charger R/T. ]

Sounds good. Not loud, but that distinctive V8 heterodyne beat comes through clearly.

Acceleration is very good. My ‘butt dyno’ suggests a bit better than my G8 GT.

I did several experiments with the paddle shifters, as I do use mine a lot, in various circumstances.
1 – Active \ listening even when in “D”rive mode.
2 – Allows second gear starts – at least in “M”anual mode.
3 – Allows manual upshifts all the way to eighth gear traveling as slowly as 50 MPH. Meaning: It will allow any upshift that will not result is the RPM being just too low for the engine to handle.
4 – Manual downshifts are very smooth.

Why a 2015 Dodge Charger ? [ and not an Audi or BMW ]

You might ask . . .

I realistically will probably only have a chance to select another 1 or possibly 2 more new cars before finances dictate ‘no more new cars for you, ray’.

The Charger [ with the options \ equipment I would specify ] is almost $6,000 less than the Audi – so I could buy it with enough down payment that [ like my VW GTI ] I could sell or trade it any time and recoup what I owe.

The packaging \ option groups for the Charger happen to line up really well with my preferences – meaning I do not have to buy anything significant that I don’t want [ to pay for ] in order to get what I do want in the package. Much better than most such option packaging. A very rare situation, for me.

So. The 2015 Dodge Charger R/T is high on my ‘short list’.

= Ray

Now waiting for the opportunity to test drive the actual car . . .

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

also sent in an internet request on the Camry XLE I liked (leftover 14.5). Needless to say, big discount.

MSRP /quote buy price
2014 Camry XLE: $26,912/ 22,400 (23,900 with 0% financing)
2014 Accord EX 26,440/ 22,448
2015 Sonata SE 23,370/ 20.990
2015 Legacy prem. 24,590/ 22,815 (no roof, the NYC car. A roof car = $23,790)


The Camry and Accord are leftovers, but make up for it by having moonroofs! Other than that, not really much difference overall in equipment from what I can tell.

If I was to get either of the 14s, I would just tell them $21,500, take it or leave it.

If I pass on the leftovers, will just be back to end of your shopping for my own Christmas present. Subaru, the Mazda 3, who knows!

I'm not a Camry fan. I haven't driven one, but have sat in a few SE (Gypsy Cab Models) and the cost cutting seems evident.

I'm leery of Hyundais. That Sonata will drop like a rock in value. I'm sure it has nice features, but they cut costs somewhere. The guy @cski on the mid sized sedans 2.0 board seems to be having suspension issues at less than 40K miles. They also just got caught for the second time with their pants down fudging gas mileage numbers.

I can't fault you for going with an Accord EX. Even though it is a 2014, it has a lot of features (Sunroof) and a responsive, refined power train, well tuned suspension, lane watch. The Accord is going to feel much quicker than the Legacy.

You know where I stand on the Legacy. I voted for it with my (well, TD Bank's) money. I think we have very similar tastes in what we like. If you want a Legacy with the sunroof, then go for it. The $23,790 what you were quoted for a "roof car" is $10 less than I paid for my non roof car:)

graphicguy

stever said:

"What once was the holy grail of in-the-know deal-seekers — uncovering the dealer's "invoice price" (what the dealer paid) for a new car — now is easy to find on the Net.

But at the same time, the industry is making that "price" increasingly meaningless.

Automakers have fattened dealers' "invoice" or wholesale price so it looks as if they're paying a lot more than they used to — perhaps 95% of the retail sticker price, vs. 85% before Internet car shopping began in the mid-1990s.

But that modern invoice number now is padded enough to let automakers send significant sums back to dealers in hard-to-track give-backs and bonuses that make the dealers' real (and well-hidden) wholesale cost for the vehicle well below "invoice."

Surprising tips for car shopping in Internet age (usatoday.com)

I've said it all along, people get fixated with negotiating on a car. And, knowing that the longer you're sitting at their desk, the more you're being bumped, then you're going to pay more. It makes me crazy not knowing exactly what I'm going to pay before I make a deal.

Determine your price point, make it all includsive, make the offer....all inlcusive, taxes, tages, and the infamous doc fees. I really don't care how they divy up the total amount. What I do know is I know exactly what I'm paying.

If the dealer wants to grind, or if they flat out reject their offer, move on to the next dealership on your list. You get a couple of them who are rejecting your offer, then you've estimated what the car will sell for too low.

The variable? I can only guess what the dealer's "incentives" are. Some will actually tell you (like my recent Caddy dealer), show you the manufacturer's incentive sheets. The key to that deal is having trust in the dealership. If you don't feel they're being honest, why deal with them? Walk away.

I do disagree that the best deal you can get is caling a bunch of different dealers, looking for the best deal. Too many times, way too many people thought they had their best deal in hand, actually faxed on paper, only to arrive at the dealership to consumate the deal, and find out the parameters of the deal had somehow changed from what they thought it was going to be. But, they've already mentally committed to the deal, so they accept it because of all the time and energy they've invested.

As far as internet sites that offer advice? If I had to resort to going on a pay/internet site to hold my hand every step of the way,\ while I buy a car, I'd consider my manhood (or womanhood for those of the fairer gender) to be at risk.

graphicguy

Ray....I've toyed with both a Challenger or Charger on several occassions. I always considered myself a Mustang guy because I've owned several in the past. But, there is something so unique about a big torque V8 coupe or 4 door, that's also a cruiser, that has appeal.

Would love to hear which direction you're leaning.

ab348

nyccarguy said:

I'm not a Camry fan. I haven't driven one, but have sat in a few SE (Gypsy Cab Models) and the cost cutting seems evident.

I'm leery of Hyundais. That Sonata will drop like a rock in value. I'm sure it has nice features, but they cut costs somewhere. The guy @cski on the mid sized sedans 2.0 board seems to be having suspension issues at less than 40K miles. They also just got caught for the second time with their pants down fudging gas mileage numbers.

I can't fault you for going with an Accord EX. Even though it is a 2014, it has a lot of features (Sunroof) and a responsive, refined power train, well tuned suspension, lane watch. The Accord is going to feel much quicker than the Legacy.

You know where I stand on the Legacy. I voted for it with my (well, TD Bank's) money. I think we have very similar tastes in what we like. If you want a Legacy with the sunroof, then go for it. The $23,790 what you were quoted for a "roof car" is $10 less than I paid for my non roof car:)

Hard to disagree with any of this. I would only add that I have been in some more uplevel Camry models than the cheapo ones and they are not bad at all inside.

roadburner

rayainsw said:

I drove a 2015 Dodge Challenger this past weekend.
I find the 2015 Charger attractive for several reasons, and the Challenger has an identical engine and transmission.
Since the new Chargers will likely not be on dealer lots for another 3 or 4 weeks [ they started production one week ago ]
and since I am sometimes [ ? ] impatient,
I decided to take the opportunity to drive the first V8 Challenger I have seen locally with the [ ZF origin ] eight speed automatic and the steering wheel mounted paddle shifters.

I specifically wanted to evaluate the behavior of the V8 and the automatic, in both “D”rive and manual modes.

Short version: I was quite impressed with the acceleration
[ the weight of the 2DR Challenger is very close to the 4DR Charger ], the transmission and the overall feel of this large coupe.

Bottom line: The Charger is on my current ‘short list’.

A couple of other observations – of interest to me & probably few others: Confirmed very low RPM at cruise = less than 2,000 RPM at 80! In my GTI, 80 = 3,000 RPM.
[ This is even with 3.07:1 final drive ratio that I believe comes with the ‘Super Track Pack’ on this Challenger - vs 2.62 on a Charger R/T. ]

Sounds good. Not loud, but that distinctive V8 heterodyne beat comes through clearly.

Acceleration is very good. My ‘butt dyno’ suggests a bit better than my G8 GT.

I did several experiments with the paddle shifters, as I do use mine a lot, in various circumstances.
1 – Active \ listening even when in “D”rive mode.
2 – Allows second gear starts – at least in “M”anual mode.
3 – Allows manual upshifts all the way to eighth gear traveling as slowly as 50 MPH. Meaning: It will allow any upshift that will not result is the RPM being just too low for the engine to handle.
4 – Manual downshifts are very smooth.

Why a 2015 Dodge Charger ? [ and not an Audi or BMW ]

You might ask . . .

I realistically will probably only have a chance to select another 1 or possibly 2 more new cars before finances dictate ‘no more new cars for you, ray’.

The Charger [ with the options \ equipment I would specify ] is almost $6,000 less than the Audi – so I could buy it with enough down payment that [ like my VW GTI ] I could sell or trade it any time and recoup what I owe.

The packaging \ option groups for the Charger happen to line up really well with my preferences – meaning I do not have to buy anything significant that I don’t want [ to pay for ] in order to get what I do want in the package. Much better than most such option packaging. A very rare situation, for me.

So. The 2015 Dodge Charger R/T is high on my ‘short list’.

= Ray

Now waiting for the opportunity to test drive the actual car . . .

As I've mentioned before, the dealer group that my BMW dealer also has a CJD dealer- and that store has a CPO 2010 Hemi Orange Challenger SRT8 with @18K on it. Six speed manual and no hole in the roof- $28.9k. I am seriously tempted. I do prefer the 2015 car's interior, but I don't like it $10k better- which is what it would cost to get a 2015 with roughly equivalent performance...

stickguy

I think the xle Camry does show better than the LE. But, in this class, all the content and room for the price means something has to give.

I may go look at the accord again to see what an EX with a black cloth interior is like.

nyccarguy

@roadburner‌

I can see why you are so tempted by that Challenger. Go in with a @graphicguy style 1 time take it or leave it offer. Once snow falls, that sucker is going to sit.

isellhondas

graphicguy said:

isellhondas said:

With a 1500.00 incentive it sounds like you've hit bottom but you can certainly ask for more.

By Christmas I would think the 2014's would be all gone.

Your best strategy would be to show up in person with intent to buy and drive home. This puts you in a position of strength and let's them know you are serious.

Good luck!

Craig...I have the utmost respect for you. You were, and continue to be a great contributor here. I know you were "in the biz" for quite a few years.

But, the auto industry created their own demons. First they started with the "cloak and dagger" pricing, until the gov't forced them to post the car prices as a Monroney (sp?) Sticker. Then came the advent of the add-on stickers, because the MSRP sticker wasn't enough, they started ADM stickers (this started around me when the Toyotas and Honda stores were first opened).

This has gone on for quite some time. While I do think things are better today, we still see some of that...."If we, will you?" games apply. Even when I make my one time offers, inform them they're one time offers, some will still try to grind me for the last nickel. So, when a customer does the same thing, all of a sudden it gets a bit wonky because the consumer is conditioned to believe by the dealerships that unless they play the grind game, you can't get a good deal.

There's no doubt in my mind that with the advent of the internet, it takes a bit more "creativity" for the dealers and manufacturers to hide some of the profit they're trying to make in the form of unadvertised incentives.

That's the only way you can explain $4K off an Accord, or my recent $15K off a Caddy.

This is why I can't understand the pushback Tesla is getting. Dealers have been pouting for years about the amount of information the customers have regarding pricing. Here's an opportunity to finally get around that and do business like Apple stores do. But, apparently the "fear factor" holds them back.

Personally, I've never noted one good thing that happened when fear was involved.

I agree with everything you said.

I have to say after a lifetime in sales including pretty high level management, nothing could have prepared me for the car business. I seriously got jaded and I lost a lot of respect for customers who would act like straight shooters and then stab me in the back for 100.00.

I have nothing but respect for you and the way you treat people. We would get along very well together in fact, I think we already do.

I had one offer customers that weren't like you. They would tell me that they intended to make one offer and one offer only. If we countered or attempted to "bump" them they would walk.

I would present their offer, explaining to the SM that we had one and only one chance to make the deal. If the deal was within reason it would be accepted. If not, I would walk the customer.

I would tell them that the offer they presented was very unlikely to be accepted by anyone but if they heard anything close to at least keep me in the loop. I wanted to let them know that I was working to make a deal happen.

Often, after a couple of days I would call them back only to learn that they had already bought a car elsewhere. " Well, I did have to pay a bit more but I was tired of the process so I just bought it"

They would be so exhausted by the process that they would simply cave in and buy the car from a store and a salesperson who really did none of the work.


But, such is the car business and it isn't too likely to change.

Sandman6472

Besides Edmunds.com and Truecar.com, what other websites are good at finding the invoice/msrp prices? I want to be able to go into the showroom equipped with the best information out there so we can make a fair deal for both sides. Luckily, the vehicles she is interested in aren't super rare and there should be plenty of inventory out there come the end of November through the end of December. Just want to make the best deal possible for both sides and I think that's being pretty reasonable.

The Sandman

graphicguy

I actually go to the forums of the models that I'm interested in. For example, for an Acura, I go to acurazine.com. For Cadillac, I go to cadillacforums.com.

For BMW, I go to bimmerfest.com.

Most brands have their own 3rd party forum community where you can read about stock levels of the models, any incentives tend to be vetted out with so many trying to buy the same model.

There are even some dealerships that support these forums that offer low pricing (bimmerfest.com has a dealership that you can buy a car from at great prices, if you want to go to CA to take delivery).

Acurazine.com has some sales folks who participate in the forums. They're usually pretty forthcoming on incentives that are unpublished.

MSRP, Invoice, truecar, Edmunds, KBB, etc, etc are all datapoints. Some are useable. Some a little less so.

stever

graphicguy said:

As far as internet sites that offer advice? If I had to resort to going on a pay/internet site to hold my hand every step of the way,\ while I buy a car, I'd consider my manhood (or womanhood for those of the fairer gender) to be at risk.

Not me, I want my wife along (or another "third baseman').

You know you can click that Live Help box up top and call us from the dealer right? Or chat. Someone back in Santa Monica will look up numbers for you - or they'll look up features or they'll try to answer any other car question you may have. 8 to 5 Pacific, 7 days a week.

Oh yeah, we're an internet site but that Live Help is free.

Sandman6472

I'm just going to go to test drive the final vehicle that she wants to make sure it drives correctly and that everything works. I am pushing for her to get cruise control and alloys and besides those two, whatever else she wants like the back up cam. Then I'll help her negotiate but I need us to have the best info to get a fair deal for both. I really have to keep my opinions out of the equation because it's her vehicle and her funds. I will say that if it comes down to the Rio or Accent, I will push a bit for the Rio as the dash and interior are just laid out better but I do think to get everything she wants, the Mazda 3 I Touring is her best bang for the buck but again, I need her to realize that.
I ended up getting a little larger vehicle so there's a bit less garage space and she's a bit concerned about that...right now, the kid's Accent fits in perfectly but with the new Mazda, that could be an issue as it has grown a bit. Have told her to get what you want and the est will fall into place. The Kia store called today as they are looking to make a deal before the end of the month so we shall see. I know I am ready to just do this already and move on to the master bath remodel I am planning.

The Sandman

stickguy

you must have the world's tiniest garage if a Tuscan and 3 are too big to fit!

if you need help pushing the 3 over the other options, let me know! That is still my favorite small car. I am still waffling on getting a mid sizer instead .

graphicguy

stever said:

graphicguy said:

As far as internet sites that offer advice? If I had to resort to going on a pay/internet site to hold my hand every step of the way,\ while I buy a car, I'd consider my manhood (or womanhood for those of the fairer gender) to be at risk.

Not me, I want my wife along (or another "third baseman').

You know you can click that Live Help box up top and call us from the dealer right? Or chat. Someone back in Santa Monica will look up numbers for you - or they'll look up features or they'll try to answer any other car question you may have. 8 to 5 Pacific, 7 days a week.

Oh yeah, we're an internet site but that Live Help is free.


Steve....did not know this....and I've been around these parts since the mid '90s.

Thanks... Good info to have at your fingertips.

stever

I keep forgetting to plug that - you can get an idea of what to expect when you call by looking at the videos.

Ask Edmunds Live Help - Your Car Questions Answered Videos

stickguy

Steve, you really should not have told me about that. But my wife might appreciate me having someone else to pester other than her!

stickguy

Did some looking today. My wife would think I had a bimbo on the side, but she knows me too well. She knows what I am really doing.

stopped at the Mazda dealer to look at a 2011 6 Touring plus. Did not excite me. Smelled funny. Thought it was a smoker, but the salesguy tried to pin it on the cleaners they use. Might be, because it reminded me of a rental car. Didn't really like the dash with the tiny screens and red color.

did not drive it. Could maybe try one out elsewhere, but I think it is off the list.

sat in a new one too. Much nicer interior. Just, mo money (mo problems?) .

went down the block to the automall. Went looking for the 2009 Jetta. Finally it was determined that it had been sold today. Oh well. Snooze, lose.

did see a 2014 Fusion ecoboost that looked nice, stickered at $18,500. 28K on the clock though. Had a moonroof. dark gray over black leather. Pretty loaded. No back up camera though. Big issue with that car I think. Decided not to pursue it.

so, I guess you could say eliminating options is progress?

Sandman6472

We don't have a brochure for the Mazda here, the Forte and Rio we have. After tonight's discussion, she still wants to try out the Elantra and Accent but safety seems to be her major concern right now plus having a little larger vehicle is a bit safer. And if it came down to the Accent or Rio, we both agree the Rio would win out because they do have a back up camera, the one she test drove had one and she liked it. If she goes compact, I think she'll go with the Mazda3 I Touring because it has all the safety features and being the same size as the Elantra, it would be the smarter choice. No vehicle is perfect at this price point and $25k is the top of the budget but I think her short list is pretty good for what's out there. And our Mazda has been very reliable so am sure the new ones are just as reliable.

The Sandman

stickguy

so, back to new. Tested out the 3 and 6 at the Mazda dealer in the showroom. 6 GT was a very nice comfy car. Great seats. very nice dash and controls. Big upgrade over the previous generation. Would be hard to compromise. real roomy too.

sat in touring and GT 3s. Seats are definitely a little smaller, and obviously a smaller car overall. but great bang for the buck.

after looking at a lot of different cars lately (and driving my little Volvo again), I think I want to stay with a mid size of some sort. Or at least a "big" compact (I would put the Jetta in this class). Just makes more sense. Wife would probably appreciate more room. And better suited to travelling (I plan to use it instead of the RDX when we don't need the cargo area to save gas and from piling up miles on it). Roomier, a bit more comfy, huge range (similar MPG, much bigger gas tank). For not that much money.

I also really think blind spot monitoring is a nice feature. And I definitely want a back up camera, especially on something bigger (especially in something like a Fusion with horrible rear visibility). I also appreciate the keyless entry/go (our Acura has spoiled me for sure).

so I guess if nothing else, I am at least winnowing down the short list!

stickguy

last stop was the Honda store. Sat in an Accord EX and a Sport (though annoyingly, the sport had aftermarket leather. I wanted to try the seats back to back). from what I remember (hallucinated?) they seemed more comfortable.

the EX was still nice though. Moonroof, good. Lanewatch still seems odd, but better than nothing. push button start. Nice size and lots of goodies. Probably should drive one again to decide. Could be tomorrows activity, depending on the rain situation. Also want to stop at the Sube dealer again before deciding anything for sure.

supply really is running out though. Sports really seem to have been a lot more popular than even Honda expected. not many still around. a few EXs. worse comes to worse, will haggle on a 2015 at the end of December. will be interesting to see if Honda even upped the incentives with the new program out.

nyccarguy

Low 50s tomorrow AM & mid to high 60s in the evening? I'll be rowing my own & driving the Prelude tomorrow;)

stickguy

might as well. Thursday sounds horrible (but good for the AWD Sube!), and after that finally a cold stretch.

graphicguy

stickguy....I've seen some pics of what is being billed as a Mazda Coupe. I know it's not the new RX, as that's not due for another couple of years (if at all).

So, I'll assume it is either a 6 or a "bigger" 3 from the looks of it.

Really sharp looking, too.

ab348

I have seen pics of a supposed Mazda 6 coupe. Can't possibly imagine them selling any in North America since the market for the sedan is almost nil.

rayainsw

“ graphicguy –

Ray....I've toyed with both a Challenger or Charger on several occassions.

Would love to hear which direction you're leaning. “

2015 Dodge Charger RT vs Challenger RT

I expect that the Charger [ once I see one in person & drive one ] will win out over the Challenger.

The deciding factors are mostly quite personal –
The Charger exterior styling, for example, I find more appealing – particularly with the [ optional on R/T ] body colored front fascia.

With a car this size, I prefer to have a slightly larger back seat - and doors for more convenient access to that space.

The option packaging for the Charger [ and the fact that the Charger has the 8-speed automatic as standard ] means the MSRP of the configuration I would buy is actually somewhat less on the Charger than on the Challenger. For example:
In order to have the paddle shifters on a Challenger requires the ‘Super Track Pack’ – that also includes a 3.07:1 final drive [ I do not want or need that 17% difference in gearing ],
a ‘performance suspension’ that I do not want,
and black wheels – that just do not suit me.
And ‘3 season’ tires – again, my preference is all-seasons.

The Charger R/T has paddles included.

The interior execution of things like the speedometer numbering in the Charger I just find more appealing than the Challenger.

The leather seats in the Charger can be red on the seating surfaces and black elsewhere – rather than all red. Again, just my personal preference.

Although I have to test sit [ at least ] my sense is that the Charger outward visibility will be better than in the Challenger. This is typical of a large coupe with a larger rear roof pillar.

Anyway, I do expect that many aspects of the driving experience will be very similar – or I would not have bothered to drive the Challenger. The additional 4” or so in wheelbase may mean a somewhat better ride in the Charger. The extra 180 pounds of weight = oh, well. If someone prefers the Challenger’s coupe attributes, and the options \ packages \ pricing are in line with your preferences, the Challenger seems like a viable option!

Now, unless some dealer orders one in exactly the specifications I want before year-end [ and offers me a screaming great deal ] I am unlikely to ‘punch’ this year. But odder things have happened . . .

= Ray

YMMV

fintail

Remember back in the 90s, there was kind of a 6 coupe - the MX-6. The second gen one was fairly pretty, and probably sold at least a couple dozen a year towards the end of the model. A big semi-sporty coupe is a tough sell, I am still surprised the Accord coupe sells.

ab348 said:

I have seen pics of a supposed Mazda 6 coupe. Can't possibly imagine them selling any in North America since the market for the sedan is almost nil.

laurasdada

Sandy, I used Cars.com to research rebates & incentives when I was shopping a year ago. That site seemed to have more up to date info than some of the others. It had the $5k+ rebate info on the Jag I ultimately bought.

kyfdx

Bought the busted foglight from my local dealer, but used their on-line website. Instead of $157, got it for $113.

Shifty's link wasn't my model, but it got me motivated to look for instructions, and removing/replacing actually looks pretty easy... So, that's on deck for this weekend..

Michaell

OK folks ... I might be renewing my CCBA membership.

I'm coming up on the one year anniversary of leasing my E-GT and the odometer just clicked over 19,000 miles. This is a 3 year, 15K mile per year lease, mind you. So, thinking about my end of lease options in a couple of years I thought about pulling a breld and converting my lease to a traditional loan.

My current payoff is about $17,000. I contact the internet sales manager at the dealership (who also manages the lease end disposition). If I finance for 6 years, the payment would be about $45/mo higher than my lease payment.

However .. Mr. Interenet Sales Mgr suggests that I could get into a new 2014 E-GT for not much more than I paying now, given the discounts and incentives that exist ($750 loyalty, $500 holiday cash and $1500 rebate).

As I've mentioned in the past, I've got a "base" car - no nav, no sunroof, no rear camera, no leather. Would be nice to upgrade to those features at just a little bit more cost to me.

Lucky for me I've got access to all the Hyundai numbers, so I can model all the payment scenarios before stepping foot in the dealership.

Am I crazy?

Oh, wait ... I forgot what discussion I'm in.

Let the research begin.

nyccarguy

Is your car worth it's $17,000 pay off?

stickguy

If they can give you a no miles loaded car for similar payment without a lot OOP, jump all over it.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

Is your car worth it's $17,000 pay off?

I doubt it -- I'll ask q over in RWTIV. But, sales mgr seemed to think that they could take care of that. I'm skeptical.

Found there is another $1000 lease cash available ... if I qualified for everything and paid just below invoice (a few hundred below TMW), my 36/15 lease payment would be a whopping $8 more than what I'm paying now.

For first payment OOP, that wouldn't be too bad. I'm guessing they want to make a sale.

I couldn't find an E-GT with tech (nav, camera) and style (leather, roof) packages in their on-line inventory, so I emailed the mgr asking if they had one.

Oh, the 2014 has a bigger engine with 25 more HP. But, a lower MPG rating - 24/33 against my car's 27/37

Michaell

stickguy said:

If they can give you a no miles loaded car for similar payment without a lot OOP, jump all over it.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, but I believe the trade value will queer the deal up.

stickguy

Hyundai dealers are good at fudging numbers. Get over there tonight. Sit down. Say present paper with bottom line. Go home in new car.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Hyundai dealers are good at fudging numbers. Get over there tonight. Sit down. Say present paper with bottom line. Go home in new car.

If I didn't have to deliver tonight, I might. Perhaps tomorrow - dinner with wife before she teaches, then over to dealer (her office is only about a mile or so away).

Gotta find one equipped the way I want .. nothing with both the tech and style packages on-line.

Also, gotta factor in the blasted $499 dealer doc fee into my offer.

And, I kinda sorta need to discuss this with the boss.

The alternative is to stick with the lease and deal with the mileage charges at that time. This year I did a lot of driving I don't expect to do going forward - lots of trips to deal with DIL's cancer issue last year. Plus, only doing 3 delivery shifts per week, down from 4. Granted, it's only about 50-60 miles per shift, but it adds up over a year - almost 3000 miles.

breld

fintail said:

Remember back in the 90s, there was kind of a 6 coupe - the MX-6. The second gen one was fairly pretty, and probably sold at least a couple dozen a year towards the end of the model. A big semi-sporty coupe is a tough sell, I am still surprised the Accord coupe sells.

ab348 said:

I have seen pics of a supposed Mazda 6 coupe. Can't possibly imagine them selling any in North America since the market for the sedan is almost nil.

I remember those MX-6's well - my brother almost bought one, and my boss at the time owned one. If memory serves, it shared much of its guts with the 2nd gen Ford Probe (unfortunate name). That 2nd gen had a cool, unique look to it.