Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

so, went out again to night to local Honda guy. Nasty night. rained all day, cold. Not good shopping weather. Very light crowds. In other words, perfect conditions!

turns out the reason that none of the sales people I tried to contact (managers or sales) got back to me was they were all off. Ended up with a nice woman. Told her we felt bad not waiting for Ron (out guy). other manager came over, convinced us that they were a team, he would get a cut, etc. So since we were there, talked to saleswoman. Had her check stock. Turns out the website was behind, and they had 1 left. Silver. I didn't want silver over black. Though after looking at a showroom special gray interior, we actually liked the black much better (a bit more light alternative accents would work though).

she pulled it up so we could check it out, and since it was there, we took a spin Drives nice enough. EX is close enough to a sport handling wise and a little less stiff. so should do OK.

one thing that I was not sold on was the driver's seat. didn't seem to tilt up as much as I like in the front, and the back was a little short so hit me in the shoulders. Most likely just being OCD, but it was not like sitting in a Volvo or Caddy!

chatted with wife, decided to give it a try. Maybe the silver would grow on me. And getting a moonroof was nice. If the price was right, get ti over with. So we chat. I end up having to pull out the emails from the other salesmanager. The current crew seems to think he was drunk or insane, but say they will do what he said. So of course, I mention again wanting to discuss them. To save time, I just tell her what my go button (fantasy? dream?) # was.

so, she goes off to manager land. eventually comes back. after a bit of talk, and I wandered over to the desk, and they just said no, they are all in.

wife just wants it done. I'm not completely sold, since the primary reason I was there was a just too damn good to pass up deal. Since I technically don't have any need for another car for another 2 months+ it had to be "the one". So pulled out the axiom, if you aren't sure, don't sign anything.

anyway, the deal was good for sure. We ended up about $30/mo. apart on a 3 year lease. No, not earth shattering. But my $225 target was already more than I originally was going for (though certainly more car than expected!) and they were not budging on $257.

it was late, no one else there, so said would go home and decide and let them know in the AM 1st thing if I wanted it. Pretty sure they are not calling me though to lower their offer!

stickguy

Yes, I am picky. and cheap. Or something. Mostly picky. and it only seems like I can't make a decision. If I see "the one" and just know, I will do it on the spot.

Dealer people pointed out that waiting would not lead to as good a deal, and the 14s would be long gone. Likely true, but more likely that I end up with something else when the time comes. May end up paying more but what the heck, it is only money!

just for the heck of it, I stopped at the Toyota dealer down the street. Sat in a Camry SE, XLE and 2015 SE. New design is a bit more stylish. Interior, very similar design just a little nicer material. but overall, the only difference would be any difference in driving dynamics.

and the Camry IMO has more comfortable seats. No push button start or lanewatch though. Can't have everything!

maybe the internet guy emails me back about the gray XLE they still have. who knows, maybe that is the "deal of the century"!

ab348

Heh. I was $20 a month off my target on the ATS so I told them the number I wanted. 15 minutes later they called back with a $7/month reduction. I said what the heck and agreed.

Not to persuade you otherwise, but that sounds like a pretty good monthly payment on a nice vehicle.

Forgot to ask: no chance of a dealer trade to get a Sport from somewhere else?

stickguy

oh, I did feel bad not getting the Honda (for the dealer people). a complete opposite experience from last night. Friendly, patient, open, transparent. Exactly what you want. Would have no problem going back or sending anyone else there.

next steps, monitor the used market just in case. And go drive the Legacy again (I really did like that one), and a Mazda 6 (I loved the seats and interior, and a drive may push it over the edge). Then just wait for the Christmas sales!

kyfdx

Hey.. $32/mo. is $1100 apart on price...

(just in case you need an excuse to keep shopping..)

steine13

I'm going to lose my membership.

The lease on the wife's '13 Cruze is up. It's been a good car with a very smooth powertrain -- 6sp manual & turbo FTW -- but nobody in the family really likes it. Interior is very tight, comfortable but a bit claustrophobic, and my wife & daughter are both short and can't see out of it very well. Madame was aghast when she found out there was no rear windshield wiper. Why did you buy me a car without a rear wiper?
Dear, there isn't a sedan on the planet with that feature...
Good thing we're married "twenty-to-life".
No time off for good behavior, I checked.
But I digress.

On the other hand, the Cruze averaged nearly 30 mpg. That's with a lot of city driving. We'll hit the 30k before Christmas and give it back a month early. $133/month with a few hundred down; it was a sweet deal. Not so sweet is that it's at the dealer today. Oil & new tires; I should have went(*) for the 24k mile lease and called it good. So I'm buying the next guy a new set, oh well.

I was thinking about maybe kinda leasing or buying another next March -- the General added $2k to my GM Card for early '15 -- but then I talked to my insurance agent. With three cars, insurance will go up almost $100/month with a new driver. With two cars, the kid adds about $15/month. Alrighty then -- that's why we live in town. Daughter and I mostly bike everywhere.

BTW, teaching a 5 ft nothing female to drive an Outback stick has been fun. I got the power seat, which helps, but she has to reach back a little for 2nd/4th/6th.
We have a full year of accompanied driving in MI, which is like the best thing of ever. I can let her do her thing and then say, did you think of this problem, did you see that cyclist on the sidewalk. She pays attention, which really helps. I think it'll be fine sharing a car with her once she turns sixteen.

I just wanted to come clean. I know it's not that kind of support group.
Cheers -Mathias

(*) A grammatical form known as "Michigan past tense"

graphicguy

Steine...good to hear from you again.

Michaell

steine13 said:

I'm going to lose my membership.

The lease on the wife's '13 Cruze is up. It's been a good car with a very smooth powertrain -- 6sp manual & turbo FTW -- but nobody in the family really likes it. Interior is very tight, comfortable but a bit claustrophobic, and my wife & daughter are both short and can't see out of it very well. Madame was aghast when she found out there was no rear windshield wiper. Why did you buy me a car without a rear wiper?
Dear, there isn't a sedan on the planet with that feature...
Good thing we're married "twenty-to-life".
No time off for good behavior, I checked.
But I digress.

On the other hand, the Cruze averaged nearly 30 mpg. That's with a lot of city driving. We'll hit the 30k before Christmas and give it back a month early. $133/month with a few hundred down; it was a sweet deal. Not so sweet is that it's at the dealer today. Oil & new tires; I should have went(*) for the 24k mile lease and called it good. So I'm buying the next guy a new set, oh well.

I was thinking about maybe kinda leasing or buying another next March -- the General added $2k to my GM Card for early '15 -- but then I talked to my insurance agent. With three cars, insurance will go up almost $100/month with a new driver. With two cars, the kid adds about $15/month. Alrighty then -- that's why we live in town. Daughter and I mostly bike everywhere.

BTW, teaching a 5 ft nothing female to drive an Outback stick has been fun. I got the power seat, which helps, but she has to reach back a little for 2nd/4th/6th.
We have a full year of accompanied driving in MI, which is like the best thing of ever. I can let her do her thing and then say, did you think of this problem, did you see that cyclist on the sidewalk. She pays attention, which really helps. I think it'll be fine sharing a car with her once she turns sixteen.

I just wanted to come clean. I know it's not that kind of support group.
Cheers -Mathias

(*) A grammatical form known as "Michigan past tense"

Actually, the Mitsu Evo is a sedan and has a rear wiper - at least, previous iterations have had them.

The missus would just love driving that.

graphicguy

ab348 said:

Heh. I was $20 a month off my target on the ATS so I told them the number I wanted. 15 minutes later they called back with a $7/month reduction. I said what the heck and agreed.

Not to persuade you otherwise, but that sounds like a pretty good monthly payment on a nice vehicle.

Forgot to ask: no chance of a dealer trade to get a Sport from somewhere else?

AB....great write up. Thanks. I don't know if you can get one of the "un-lines" here in the U.S. Maybe you can. But, the only ones I've seen are the "Luxury, Performance, Premiums". That's kind of the way BMW does it now, too. They have "Sport, Luxury, Modern", but you can also get a 3 with none of those "packages".

I also didn't know there were two different versions of the 2.0T. I had heard that Cadillac is dumping the 2.5, though.

I had also heard that some government entity was trying to outlaw the motorized door for HVAC and stereo controls that hides a storage bin. Reason being, they are fearful we will hide drugs behind the door.

I'm just flabergasted by what some people think of. Unfortunately, it seems the stupider you are, the easier it is to get elected. Will stop there.

stickguy

Ab, yes it was a good payment for that car objectively. I just wasn't attached enough I guess to do it.

Sports I could find. Just after thinking on it, decided that wasn't the right model after all.

Yes, I seem to have commitment issues.

nyccarguy

stick - you want cheap?

City World Toyota (Bronx)
$79 per month 12K per year for a Prius C (2)
$0 Down
Plus Tax

stickguy

what is it, a repo?

something has to be wrong with that. Rebates no one qualifies for?

If I was in an actual dealer and they don't me I could have one for $85/month with little OOP for DMV stuff, I would take it home even if I hated it.

stickguy

my wife is mad at me for not taking the deal on the Accord. She just does not understand. I should have Mrs. Breld call her to explain.

She assumes it is all about the money. it isn't. I still had a nagging feeling I was talking myself into something. Been there, done that, usually does not end well. I will explain it over dinner, after I pump a few hi test Pumpkin beers into her (to "loosen her up").

Her latest statement was she is not coming to a dealer, until I call her to tell her papers were signed, and I need a ride back to pick up the extra car. Seems fair to me. I am on my own with this. At least until my daughter gets home from college. She has car shopping trips all planned. My true partner in crime!

jayrider

stickguy said:

my wife is mad at me for not taking the deal on the Accord. She just does not understand. I should have Mrs. Breld call her to explain.

She assumes it is all about the money. it isn't. I still had a nagging feeling I was talking myself into something. Been there, done that, usually does not end well. I will explain it over dinner, after I pump a few hi test Pumpkin beers into her (to "loosen her up").

Her latest statement was she is not coming to a dealer, until I call her to tell her papers were signed, and I need a ride back to pick up the extra car. Seems fair to me. I am on my own with this. At least until my daughter gets home from college. She has car shopping trips all planned. My true partner in crime!

Stick -- check out mandvleasing. Their advertised rates are super -- don't know if it is for real but check out all the models. Saw a few for $179 zero down -- not for Honda but Altima looks good if you want cheap.

stever

In hobby news, things are looking up.

Lower used car prices signal a buying opportunity (kansascity.com)

kyfdx

stickguy said:

my wife is mad at me for not taking the deal on the Accord. She just does not understand. I should have Mrs. Breld call her to explain.

She assumes it is all about the money. it isn't. I still had a nagging feeling I was talking myself into something. Been there, done that, usually does not end well. I will explain it over dinner, after I pump a few hi test Pumpkin beers into her (to "loosen her up").

Her latest statement was she is not coming to a dealer, until I call her to tell her papers were signed, and I need a ride back to pick up the extra car. Seems fair to me. I am on my own with this. At least until my daughter gets home from college. She has car shopping trips all planned. My true partner in crime!

Cheap leases are great... .but, if it's not a car you really want, it turns into regret. 2008 Impreza was a great deal. Thank goodness it was only 24 months... couldn't wait to get rid of it.

Why not a Golf?

ab348

stickguy said:

my wife is mad at me for not taking the deal on the Accord. She just does not understand. I should have Mrs. Breld call her to explain.

She assumes it is all about the money. it isn't. I still had a nagging feeling I was talking myself into something. Been there, done that, usually does not end well. I will explain it over dinner, after I pump a few hi test Pumpkin beers into her (to "loosen her up").

Her latest statement was she is not coming to a dealer, until I call her to tell her papers were signed, and I need a ride back to pick up the extra car. Seems fair to me. I am on my own with this. At least until my daughter gets home from college. She has car shopping trips all planned. My true partner in crime!

As a single guy my opinion on such matters is totally uninformed and likely useless, but to me, this sounds ominous. Is it possible that she really liked/wanted the Accord and now is P.O.'ed because you walked?

ab348

graphicguy said:

AB....great write up. Thanks. I don't know if you can get one of the "un-lines" here in the U.S. Maybe you can. But, the only ones I've seen are the "Luxury, Performance, Premiums". That's kind of the way BMW does it now, too. They have "Sport, Luxury, Modern", but you can also get a 3 with none of those "packages".

I also didn't know there were two different versions of the 2.0T. I had heard that Cadillac is dumping the 2.5, though.

I had also heard that some government entity was trying to outlaw the motorized door for HAVAC and stereo controls that hides a storage bin. Reason being, they are fearful we weill hide drugs behind the door.

I'm just flabergasted by what some people think of. Unfortunately, it seems the stupider you are, the easier it is to get elected. Will stop there.

Cadillac offers the ATS in 4 lines in the US also. I know this because last night I went to Cadillac.com to review the 2015 changes. From cheapest to most expensive "collections" as they call them:
Standard > Luxury > Performance > Premium

I'm not sure about imid's assessment of the engine changes. I know the 2.0 in my car has 272HP/260 torque. On cadillac.com they show both the ATS and CTS for 2015 with the same 272HP but 295 torque. This is the tune that you have in your 2014 CTS. Too bad they won't likely offer the software upgrade for my 2014 that would bring it up to the same level!

The 2.5 is n/a in the new ATS coupe and likely shouldn't be in the sedan either. Maybe it's for rental fleets.

jayrider

stever said:

In hobby news, things are looking up.

Lower used car prices signal a buying opportunity (kansascity.com)

What does that mean regarding my current cars' values for sale or trade ?

stickguy

I like the golf. No support so far so tend to be pricey. Could still go that way later but I think we want something bigger.

The wife did like the accord OK. not rapture but was fine to her. But everything I drag her to is fine usually. She just wants the process over with, more than she cares what I get.

My car, my choice, she just wants me to make one!

stever

jayrider said:

What does that mean regarding my current cars' values for sale or trade ?

Better move 'em fast ahead of the price drop curve.

Seriously, the pig in the python is moving - lots of lease returns are coming in regularly now.

stickguy

The strippo 2.5 is so they can advertise. $299 month leases. Not because anyone wants one.

Michaell

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:

AB....great write up. Thanks. I don't know if you can get one of the "un-lines" here in the U.S. Maybe you can. But, the only ones I've seen are the "Luxury, Performance, Premiums". That's kind of the way BMW does it now, too. They have "Sport, Luxury, Modern", but you can also get a 3 with none of those "packages".

I also didn't know there were two different versions of the 2.0T. I had heard that Cadillac is dumping the 2.5, though.

I had also heard that some government entity was trying to outlaw the motorized door for HAVAC and stereo controls that hides a storage bin. Reason being, they are fearful we weill hide drugs behind the door.

I'm just flabergasted by what some people think of. Unfortunately, it seems the stupider you are, the easier it is to get elected. Will stop there.

Cadillac offers the ATS in 4 lines in the US also. I know this because last night I went to Cadillac.com to review the 2015 changes. From cheapest to most expensive "collections" as they call them:
Standard > Luxury > Performance > Premium

I'm not sure about imid's assessment of the engine changes. I know the 2.0 in my car has 272HP/260 torque. On cadillac.com they show both the ATS and CTS for 2015 with the same 272HP but 295 torque. This is the tune that you have in your 2014 CTS. Too bad they won't likely offer the software upgrade for my 2014 that would bring it up to the same level!

The 2.5 is n/a in the new ATS coupe and likely shouldn't be in the sedan either. Maybe it's for rental fleets.

One of my wife's co-teachers has a 2.5 ATS. RWD, too. Her husband bought it on a whim for her - they had a late 00's BMW 750iL that they sold.

She really likes it .. much smaller size for her. The family car is a Sequoia.

I've been seeing a lot of commercials for the new ATS coupe - really sharp looking and getting good reviews, too.

Just a bit outside my budget at the moment.

stick - your wife sounds like mine. When I was shopping for a sedan back in '02, I took her to a few dealers. At the Saturn dealer, she just said "why don't you just get this one?". Which is how I ended up with the '03 L300 V6 at 0% financing.

Nothing wrong with the Accord ... or the Legacy ... or anything else. You've just got to feel good about it. But, it's only for 3 years. I drove the ION for almost 4 years as a hand-me-down and I didn't die.

stickguy

Don't talk me into it. Because I can guarantee if I changed my mind, and tried to go with it, the unit will be sold.

Honda needs to spruce up their interior color combos. Need some contrast.

ab348

Now I understand why there is such a short supply of 2015 Mustangs on dealer lots. All the early production went for tuners to hack on at the SEMA show. Cripes!

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2014/11/07/ford-highlights-mustang-concepts-at-2014-sema-show/

stickguy

Oh I could drive anything if needed. And I'm sure I will end up settling eventually. But if I do it better be really cheap! Will be different in 2 months when the Volvo is gone and I am officially carless. That will motivate me.

Plus I enjoy looking. Once I buy I am out of the market entirely for at least 3 years. Maybe longer.

I most likely go super cheap and basic, or splurge on something I really like. Trying to split the difference is hard.

I do have 1 more price request pending. An alternate idea that I came up with last night that if it works, means lots more car for very little extra money.

Mr_Shiftright

Is there some kind of Bad Taste Contest going on at SEMA? Yeah, I know, there's an ____ for very seat, but who wants a car that looks like your kids drew on it?

ab348 said:

Now I understand why there is such a short supply of 2015 Mustangs on dealer lots. All the early production went for tuners to hack on at the SEMA show. Cripes!

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2014/11/07/ford-highlights-mustang-concepts-at-2014-sema-show/

fintail

Most of SEMA is a bad taste contest.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Is there some kind of Bad Taste Contest going on at SEMA? Yeah, I know, there's an ____ for very seat, but who wants a car that looks like your kids drew on it?

Mr_Shiftright

Never been except on internet videos and in magazines. I really should go.

stever

Some of the vans make me go hm, and not just the Quigley conversions rigs.

btw, emotorcons are fixed.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

Oh I could drive anything if needed. And I'm sure I will end up settling eventually. But if I do it better be really cheap! Will be different in 2 months when the Volvo is gone and I am officially carless. That will motivate me.

Plus I enjoy looking. Once I buy I am out of the market entirely for at least 3 years. Maybe longer.

I most likely go super cheap and basic, or splurge on something I really like. Trying to split the difference is hard.

I do have 1 more price request pending. An alternate idea that I came up with last night that if it works, means lots more car for very little extra money.

Mid-size sedans? Can't beat the Maxima for the monthly lease price..

breld

@stickguy‌ - seems to me you made the right decision by walking on the Accord. The pricing sounds pretty good, so if you weren't "feeling it" then certainly best to walk. There are a lot of good cars out there - and I'm the same way - I enjoy the search, as many of us do.

I really think that Mazda6 would be great for you - I know you love the 3, so you get a lot of its character, but in the larger sedan for added comfort. Probably a bit pricier than the Accord/Camry, but if you like it...

stickguy

It's only money, right? Something only said by people that actually have it I think!

breld

@Michaell‌
breld - I can get up to the Tech Center pretty easily. Mondays and Thursdays are the best days for me. Pick a day and a place.

Sounds good Michael - I'll let you know.

corvette

kyfdx said:

Mid-size sedans? Can't beat the Maxima for the monthly lease price..

Only problem is that it's been outdone by the Altima V6 since 2013. I think the base Maxima has a high MSRP but lacks leather and a sliding sunroof. OTOH, if it leases cheap enough...

stickguy

Spent more tine today at a dealer. Found my dream. On the prowl, circling the prey. Hopefully by tomorrow it is done. Getting pretty close!

Doubt anyone will guess the current object if my obsession. But if it happens, thank edmunds price promise ap!

stickguy

well, that dealer couldn't quite get far enough. But followed-up with the price promise guy. Have appointment to go over there tomorrow at 10 to finalize deal. Assuming that his Email # was the bottom line (lease quote), and not missing the "oh yeahs, gotta ads".

may also just buy it, even though it is more than meant to spend, if they can get a really good rate for a longer term.

so by lunch time tomorrow, I am either styling in my new wheels, or something went wrong and me and the wifee made a nice trip over to Philly for nothing!

we have decided after recent events that it will be a quick visit. If games start, we bail fast.

at least I heeded the advice to not settle on features or performance just because of a monthly #.

graphicguy

Stick....Acuras typically are a better purchase than lease, given how the Germans throw lots of money to,support leases. But, you like Acura products a lot.

Based on that, I'm going Acura for the Daily Double, Alex!

stickguy

there is a pretty good lease offer on an ILX now, but no, that is not it.

one thing that I have now tried is blind spot monitoring. I really liked it, and think it will be a great feature to have for dealing with 95, and especially at night/in rain when it is so hard to make sure you don't have anyone hiding there.

so I decided that was something that had moved onto the "must have" list!

breld

Okay, it sounds like you're pretty excited about it, so I'm guessing it's something other than the Camry or Accord (didn't seem to get your blood flowing).

And you want blind spot monitoring. And sounds like you're not skimping, so I'm guessing you're getting a sunroof. So...

Mazda 6 Grand Touring?

Legacy 2.5i Limited?

stickguy

no, but I do like the 6. the GT gets pretty darned pricey at over 30K.

A 6 touring with moonroof package was certainly on the short list.

28firefighter

I'll throw out a guess. Volkswagen CC?

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

I'll throw out a guess. Volkswagen CC?

That would be a great choice in the $30K+ category... but, even a great deal is probably pushing $325/$350/mo.

Mr_Shiftright

Porsche Cayenne Turbo V-8?

kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright said:

Porsche Cayenne Turbo V-8?

Lease rates suck on those.. ;-)

Mr_Shiftright

Ah, I might have suspected. Man, that vehicle prints money for Porsche!

28firefighter

Ha I haven't checked them recently. I guess the 255/month deals are long gone?

suydam

Wait. This was the person going for cheap and you all are guessing Porsche?

Mr_Shiftright

We're just teasing him....

Michaell

Hmmm. I'm gonna guess Buick Regal.