Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stever

Gotta spend your money on something. The part that would bother me would be the DMV fees and taxes every six months.

Mr_Shiftright

What a scam. If a car gets bought and sold 6 times in one year, they collect the tax 6 times over.

I have to figure 10% extra when I buy a car in California.

stickguy

Jersey the same. Between tax, fees and tags, gets real pricey to keep flipping.

jayrider

stickguy said:

Jersey the same. Between tax, fees and tags, gets real pricey to keep flipping.

At least we can take comfort in knowing that all that tax money is going toward the common good. No bridges to nowhere or jobs for family and friends.

brian125

jayrider ,

Very true.......... Remember what Calogero said in........... A Bronx tale.

The working man is a sucker..................... and that be us. So flip those cars and enjoy life.

Makes me feel so good knowing I threw my money away on something I love then my money being spent on Gov't........... and there dependents.

stickguy

Jay, let me fix that for you:

At least we can take comfort in knowing that all that tax money is going toward the common good. No bridges to nowhere or but many jobs for family and friends.

stever

Too bad tourism isn't really opening up all the way for Cuba visits. Although I suppose you could start an import business - Shifty's Classic Cuba Imports has a nice ring to it. Talk about some cars to flip.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm getting pretty disgusted with the money-grubbing sleazoid classic car business. Auction houses just ruined the hobby for everyone. A pox on them!

jayrider

stickguy said:

Jay, let me fix that for you:

At least we can take comfort in knowing that all that tax money is going toward the common good. No bridges to nowhere or but many jobs for family and friends.

Nicely edited.

berri

Well, if you're younger - wait until the older people start dying off. Generally, someone like an auction house can distort a business segment, but longer term most things head back to equilibrium, and the ride back is often ugly.

corvette

berri said:

Well, if you're younger - wait until the older people start dying off. Generally, someone like an auction house can distort a business segment, but longer term most things head back to equilibrium, and the ride back is often ugly.

Good point. The market for Model Ts and Shelby Cobras will be very different when cars (as we currently know them) are considered a quaint anachronism.

au1994

Mr_Shiftright said:

What a scam. If a car gets bought and sold 6 times in one year, they collect the tax 6 times over.

I have to figure 10% extra when I buy a car in California.

Same thing here in Georgia. A 6.75% ad valorem is levied when you purchase. Even on a lease the full amount of the car is taxed. When it is sold again a full 6.75% is collected again.

graphicguy

stever said:

Too bad tourism isn't really opening up all the way for Cuba visits. Although I suppose you could start an import business - Shifty's Classic Cuba Imports has a nice ring to it. Talk about some cars to flip.

Now there's a splendid idea.

I know someone who goes in and out of Cuba several times a year. He lives in Miami and has a 52' Cabin Cruiser which is actually his home. Not much in the way of border patrol in Cuba apparently. He comes and goes as he pleases.

While I don't know this for certain, I think he does a little import/export business.

Been a few years ago, but he said it was inevitable that relations between Cuba and the U.S. would normalize. And, when it does, he said he had an in to buy waterfront property there, which he believes Americans would pay handsomely for.

I used to think maybe he was a bit on the crazy side. Now, maybe not so crazy.

breld

Well, to be fair on the flip transactions, if you trade the car in, you get a credit for the trade value against sales tax, so you didn't pay the taxes "twice" except to the extent the car depreciated. That, of course, requires you to trade versus selling privately, and is also dependent on individual state law.

And similarly, here in Colorado, we get a pro-rated credit for the DMV fees when you switch over the plates. So, not all lost.

Still, no doubt flipping can get expensive - I certainly have paid my dues.

Worst one, naturally, was my first BMW - 530xi purchased new and sold 2-3 years later. Other than the one X3, note I have never bought a BMW new again. And we haven't lost our shirt on any of them:

1995 318ti Bought $5,500; sold $4,900
2002 530i Bought $12,900; sold $10,000 (twice)
2004 330ci Bought $12,500; sold $11,000
2011 335xi Bought $35,600; sold $30,500
2010 328xiT Bought $32,000; sold $29,500

That 335xi turned out to be the biggest loss - about $5,000 over the year, or $425/month. For me, I'm okay with paying that "rent" per month. The rest were much lower - $200-$300/month. Again, I'm okay with that as a usage fee. Just have to have the stomach to go through the process of buying and selling - I enjoy it, as many of us do.

It's sort of like leasing a car short-term, except you're your own financing bank and you're floating the residual of the car until you sell.

kyfdx

breld said:

Well, to be fair on the flip transactions, if you trade the car in, you get a credit for the trade value against sales tax, so you didn't pay the taxes "twice" except to the extent the car depreciated. That, of course, requires you to trade versus selling privately, and is also dependent on individual state law.

And similarly, here in Colorado, we get a pro-rated credit for the DMV fees when you switch over the plates. So, not all lost.

Still, no doubt flipping can get expensive - I certainly have paid my dues.

Worst one, naturally, was my first BMW - 530xi purchased new and sold 2-3 years later. Other than the one X3, note I have never bought a BMW new again. And we haven't lost our shirt on any of them:

1995 318ti Bought $5,500; sold $4,900
2002 530i Bought $12,900; sold $10,000 (twice)
2004 330ci Bought $12,500; sold $11,000
2011 335xi Bought $35,600; sold $30,500
2010 328xiT Bought $32,000; sold $29,500

That 335xi turned out to be the biggest loss - about $5,000 over the year, or $425/month. For me, I'm okay with paying that "rent" per month. The rest were much lower - $200-$300/month. Again, I'm okay with that as a usage fee. Just have to have the stomach to go through the process of buying and selling - I enjoy it, as many of us do.

It's sort of like leasing a car short-term, except you're your own financing bank and you're floating the residual of the car until you sell.

Depends on the state.. not every state offers a trade-in credit to sales tax..

qbrozen

That is almost very kinda tempting... but no warranty to speak of? oh boy.

By the way, that just happens to be the place I bought my GTI from several years back.

jayrider

qbrozen said:

That is almost very kinda tempting... but no warranty to speak of? oh boy.

By the way, that just happens to be the place I bought my GTI from several years back.

What a coinkadink ! I saw that almost identical Jag on the interstate this morning. I noticed because it was Pepto-Bismol pink. Must have been a special order -- nothing to indicate Mary Kay Cosmetics either.

stickguy

jersey does do a tax credit on a trade in, but you still get hit with dealer doc fees and DMV fees. But yes, that saves money, offset by the quick and immediately delta loss between retail and trade!

Breld, that is the way I look at flipping cars too, if you are paying cash (which is otherwise in a low interest money market account) or getting cheap financing. Basically, like on a lease, you are paying monthly depreciation. so buying and selling used cars can be compared to a lease.

cars cost something annually, no matter how you do it. even if you don't sell the one you have, it still depreciates, so unlike some people think, it doesn't cost "nothing" to hang onto your current ride!

stickguy

Rob, step away from the Jaguars. Back up nice and slow, before you get attacked.

qbrozen

...but...but...awww...they're so pretty!

stickguy

so are tiger cubs, but I still don't want to pet one.

corvette

stickguy said:

so are tiger cubs, but I still don't want to pet one.

(sort of) on topic, but this is the off-topic topic, right?

http://xkcd.com/325/

stickguy

saw another E class today, and pointed it out to the wife. She had noticed one on the road not long ago and commented that it was nice. We both really like the look, size, etc.

I have now decided (subject to change, as all my decisions are!) that my next car (when the new lease runs out) will be an E class. Most likely an off lease, since that would time out perfectly to get a 2015 with low miles off lease or CPO, and by then, might be in my price range!

Sandman6472

One thing I've learned, never say never!!! Who'd a thought I's switch out of a perfectly good vehicle into another one in just over a year? Never in a million years did I ever think about this happening but I knew that I always looked at other vehicles all the time on the road. Should I have done this, probably not but do I regret it, not at all. Chalking it up to a senior moment and the need for something more fun that what I had because I think driving needs to be fun, we need to enjoy something we do so often. Now, I've been opening the sunroof whenever possible and just enjoying that sweet little engine and the way it sound.
So, I have learned one thing here and that's to never say never!!!

The Sandman

kyfdx

stickguy said:

saw another E class today, and pointed it out to the wife. She had noticed one on the road not long ago and commented that it was nice. We both really like the look, size, etc.

I have now decided (subject to change, as all my decisions are!) that my next car (when the new lease runs out) will be an E class. Most likely an off lease, since that would time out perfectly to get a 2015 with low miles off lease or CPO, and by then, might be in my price range!

We looked at the E-Class, before leasing the Infiniti... mainly because the diesel models were leasing for $450/mo. for just 24 months.

But, it's a pretty big car.. not sure of dimensions, but it feels like a whole class size above the Accord/Sonata/Camry.. My wife just didn't feel comfortable driving it (width, mostly). Plus, she didn't want to be the "old lady driving a Mercedes"..

I was lobbying for it...

breld

Sandy - you're absolutely right. For as much time you spend in your car, you should enjoy it. Very happy for you.

Stick - a used E class would be great. I think that class of car make incredible used car buys - E class, 5 series, A6, even M37. Though the A6 seems to hold its value a bit better than the others. My wife loves her GTI, but even she remarks on the relative value of my CPO 535xi, only costing a bit more than her new VW.

rayainsw

'Should I have done this, probably not..' - Sandy
You're welcome!
= Ray
We are all enablers here....

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Rob, step away from the Jaguars. Back up nice and slow, before you get attacked.

After I was away from the computer and the Siren's call faded, I realized that financing a $40k, 6-year-old vehicle would be really crazy.

stever

Second opinions invited. (No one knows better than you guys).

abacomike

stever said:

Second opinions invited. (No one knows better than you guys).

You're right on target.

Mr_Shiftright

But the miles are only 23,000. I've heard of Jaguars going TWICE that!

stickguy said:

Rob, step away from the Jaguars. Back up nice and slow, before you get attacked.

henryn

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

Rob, step away from the Jaguars. Back up nice and slow, before you get attacked.

After I was away from the computer and the Siren's call faded, I realized that financing a $40k, 6-year-old vehicle would be really crazy.

My credit union is offering 1.59% for 6 years on new cars. And almost that good on recent model used cars. A 5 or 6 year old car? 2.99%, at best, and for only 4 years. Let me see here, $40k plus sales tax and license, minus 20% down (which is $8k by itself), and you're looking at around $750 per month for 48 months.

$750 per month on a car with no warranty. Hmmm....

And after you have it paid off, 4 years from now, it will be worth, what, about ..., roughly ... Nothing???

Like the man said, "Back away..."

fintail

2017-2018 or so might be a good time to make a move, as the W213 will be out then, which won't help W212 resale. The current E has been a generally good car, no huge issues in the platform.

stickguy said:

saw another E class today, and pointed it out to the wife. She had noticed one on the road not long ago and commented that it was nice. We both really like the look, size, etc.

I have now decided (subject to change, as all my decisions are!) that my next car (when the new lease runs out) will be an E class. Most likely an off lease, since that would time out perfectly to get a 2015 with low miles off lease or CPO, and by then, might be in my price range!

breld

Wife and I may go check out the new Kia Sedona this afternoon - I like the look of it, and it may be a nice updated replacement for the Ody, and a bit cheaper.

I'll let you know how it goes - I'm sure everyone will be waiting on pins and needles to hear about this updated minivan.

jayrider

breld said:

Wife and I may go check out the new Kia Sedona this afternoon - I like the look of it, and it may be a nice updated replacement for the Ody, and a bit cheaper.

I'll let you know how it goes - I'm sure everyone will be waiting on pins and needles to hear about this updated minivan.

The only negative on the Sedona would be resale versus Honda and Toyota. Based on your recent history, shouldn't be a problem.

Michaell

@stickguy‌ - sent you a PM, but thought you might check here, too. Please head over to the "Honda Accord Lease Questions" discussion - we've got a poster who lives in NJ who wants to lease from a dealer in PA (hey, sounds familiar!) and has questions about the tax / tags / license issues of a cross-border deal.

Thanks!

stickguy

OK. Will head over.

Breld, you already have a Minivan. Don't bother buying another one. if you are going to spend the money, get something different. If you really need a minivan, keep the Honda.

Michaell

stickguy said:

OK. Will head over.

Breld, you already have a Minivan. Don't bother buying another one. if you are going to spend the money, get something different. If you really need a minivan, keep the Honda.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing ... but the new Sedona probably has more bells and whistles than the "old" Odyssey, which will keep the kids entertained and out of mom and dad's hair.

stickguy

Kids can be entertained easily with their cell phones. You don't need car based assitance for that!

You are just looking for excuses to justify it.

I would get a hemi Durango (or whatever it was you were all hot an bothered on last week!) instead of one of those.

suydam

You might be surprised how well the Ody has held up in terms of features, mileage, and drive.

breld

stickguy said:

Kids can be entertained easily with their cell phones. You don't need car based assitance for that!

You are just looking for excuses to justify it.

I would get a hemi Durango (or whatever it was you were all hot an bothered on last week!) instead of one of those.

Okay, come on. "Excuses to justify" a minivan? That's about the only car you don't need to make excuses for.

Here's the latest discussion: something like the Durango would be my primary car - that'd be the reason to compromise the functionality that the minivan brings. That would mean replacing the 535xi. That's where I get squeamish.

But, I still have significant driving time in the van - probably about 1/3 to 1/2 of the time. So, I'd like a little upgrade/updating of our current van. Unlike the rest of the fleet, we've actually owned that for 3 years and 40k miles (it's 6 years old and has 85k miles).

So....we actually really liked the Sedona. The exterior has a nice, "butchier" look to it, and we really love the interior. There's a more traditional center console between the driver and passenger seats and the leather seats are great - nice, tasteful two-tone look. Being more current than our '09 Ody, it naturally has things our current ride is lacking, such as iPod connectivity, touchscreen, bluetooth, blind-spot monitoring, etc.

Worked on a lease deal tonight, but the $2,000 savings in sticker over an Odyssey EX-L didn't translate to any savings on the lease payment. As much as we like the car, I still don't want to pay more than a Honda, and feel it should be somewhat less.

We'll see - I know it's hard to get excited about a van, but I did like it.

breld

suydam said:

You might be surprised how well the Ody has held up in terms of features, mileage, and drive.

Yes, you're right. At 6 years old and 85k miles, it by all means has held up very well. Feature-wise, not so much. But the drive is still very nice.

stickguy

having something with the latest goodies, you do realize how quickly things change. The Sonata even has stuff that the RDX doesn't (though that was a base model, and Acura likes to restrict some stuff to the tech packages).

comparing it to our 2005 Odyssey, no contest. I don't think that even had Bluetooth. But maybe it did. I just don't remember it! But the radio interface, back up cams, BLIS, Nav, voice recognition. that stuff is amazing.

corvette

breld said:

Okay, come on. "Excuses to justify" a minivan? That's about the only car you don't need to make excuses for.

To an extent... I'll admit I did some research on getting a minivan when I was a 20 year old college kid and transporting computers, printers, and those archaic old CRT monitors all over the territory doing IT work. The Jetta I had at the time managed to fit everything fairly well.

stever

@breld, what kind of numbers are we talking for a Sedona? I'm really trying to wean myself and get something smaller but geeze, they just are so practical.

nyccarguy

@breld‌

I didn't realize you were using the Odyssey as your primary vehicle. I have no doubt that Sedona Minivan is nice, but it would have to be WAAAAAY cheaper ($5K rebate plus $5K off sticker) than the comparable Odyssey or Sienna for me to even consider it. Resale is also a consideration, especially if you decide "it's not for you" in a year.

I've seen a few Durangos more than usual on the road over the past week. I like them. Very manly! V8 is a big plus.

breld

Well, based on the info I had, I was shooting for a lease pmt of around $360-370/month (plus tax), with nothing down (3 yr/36k). That's for an EX/premium model with an MSRP of $34,990.

They were more around $415/month, which is exactly the same quote I had on a new Odyssey EX-L. Again, I happen to prefer the Sedona at this point, but still think it should be cheaper than the Honda.

stever

There's some similar comments floating around about the pricing of the new Sonata. Kia/Hyundai have upped pricing a bit since they've upped their reputation, or at least the dealers seem to be wheeling and dealing a bit closer to the vest. Still more bang for the buck than a SUV unless you need to tow or need clearance or AWD/4WD. Best bang for buck would be a used one though, even more so than most cars or SUVs I think.

stickguy

problem with the Sedona is that it is a brand new design. So it is new, or nothing. the used ones are the old model and way inferior.

stever

That's the rub. What the hey, someone has to take the depreciation hit, and yeah, you do get to enjoy the new features. Maybe one of the safety gizmos will save your bacon in a wreck too.