Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

qbrozen

As far as I know, they've been good. Only issues I've ever heard consistent mention of has been from those who race them. Something about the first gen blocks not liking the constant abuse.

graphicguy

breld said:

Yeah - that's the way I'm leaning too. Who was it on here who had nothing but trouble with their newly ordered S4? And then got a TL?

me

Sandman6472

60,000 mile vehicles? Sure as hell hope not...want to keep the A3 in our fleet for awhile to be honest and do not want to go car shopping for the forseeable future! As long as the kid's '09 Versa keeps running, we're staying far away from any and all dealerships. Her sunglass holder just broke but not sure how we're going to tackle that yet, probably bring it in to my accessory/audio guy to see what they can do.
Hoping our VW products work flawlessly for a long long time!!!

The Sandman

Sandman6472

Wondering if anyone knows if the new '15 Golf's have a full size spare or a donut? Left a message at VW to find out because if so, they need to get me that Jetta spare before they sell it or trade it. Not quite sure what I got in my car right now but need to look. This alloy wheel issue has just got me beat actually, wore me out the other day as I only had about 10 minutes to make a big decision and starting to second guess myself a bit here!!! The other set would've looked good also I think but it exposed a lot more of the calipers which I wasn't crazy about, just wish they had put one of each on my vehicle first so I could've viewed them side by side. Had to make a quick decision by going back between each vehicle as they were parked in an outside special area outside the dealership. Don't get me wrong, the car looks great now but just not sure the other ones would've looked any worse. Time to stop second guessing this and move on...it does look pretty darn nice!!

The Sandman


P.S. I think the right set of wheels can make or break the looks of any vehicle to be honest!!

stickguy

I think you should stop obsessing about the wheels. You have nice ones, they are fine. Enjoy the car and don't look at the wheels.

I'm kind of surprised they didn't just put your originals back on.

Pretty sure it is a temp spare. Not exactly a donut, but not a full size matching alloy. So you don't have to worry about it matching, and since it came with the car, it will be fine since you have the same size wheels.

Sandman6472

Yes, no more thinking about my choice, it's done! I told them in the office Thursday that I would never had done the deal with the original alloys because they were just plain ugly to me...I would've passed on the vehicle to be honest. Think they just wanted me gone at that point but also wanted me happy. Simple as that, how can we make this guy happy so he'll just go away. Was talking with the lady head service department manager and asked if I was their biggest pita customer and she said "honestly, you're not even close"! Was she lying, who knows but guess they sometimes get real ball busters, something I wasn't trying to be. I just knew there was a problem and I was right...it just opened up a different can of worms, that's all. And bottom line, I do love my car the way it is...now!
Just wonder what would of happened back in the end of 2013 if I had put VW in the mix...think I'd have a Tiguan in the garage right now to be honest because I really did like it last year. And funny thing is my twin has a 2014 Tiguan!!!

The Sandman

corvette

sandman_6472 said:

Wondering if anyone knows if the new '15 Golf's have a full size spare or a donut?

Sandy, glad you got your wheel issues fixed. If they equip the Golf the same way as my Jetta, they should all have a 16" steel wheel as a spare. Mine has a sticker not to exceed 55 MPH, but it's not a donut, just a standard 205/55/16, H-speed rated tire. I had no problems driving on it when one of my tires got a sidewall bubble right after I bought the car.

breld

Yup - wife's GTI has the temp spare, so I'm sure your Golf is the same.

Glad everything worked out for you in the end!

qbrozen

sandman_6472 said:

60,000 mile vehicles? Sure as hell hope not...want to keep the A3 in our fleet for awhile to be honest and do not want to go car shopping for the forseeable future!
The Sandman

OK, you need to leave now.

stickguy

my daughter was teasing me (torturing?) today, texting pictures of very nice cars. Orange M6, new Roller coupe (slope back, 2 tone red bottom, white roof and rear sail panels), and an i8.

all just curb (valet) parked in front of the mall she was at.

of course, it helps that she is currently in Dubai. The amount of drop dead expensive cars there is large. Rich place.

stickguy

she also texted yesterday that they stopped for gas, and some 1950s (no, she did not know the actual year) Stingray just pulled up next to them, like "NBD"

ab348

stickguy said:

my daughter was teasing me (torturing?) today, texting pictures of very nice cars. Orange M6, new Roller coupe (slope back, 2 tone red bottom, white roof and rear sail panels), and an i8.

all just curb (valet) parked in front of the mall she was at.

of course, it helps that she is currently in Dubai. The amount of drop dead expensive cars there is large. Rich place.

I seem to recall that things there became very sour in 2008-2009. Homeless people everywhere, etc. I wonder if a repeat is in order if these low oil prices continue for long. That would be a shame. A real shame.

stickguy

as long as it doesn't happen in the next 2 weeks until she gets home!

stickguy

OK, here's a convertible with Fezo written all over it.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2009-saab-9~3-2_0t-used-13011017.html

fezo

I saw that earlier when you posted the Mercedes. This would be great for my brother. Somehow he buys Saabs with Toyota reliability. I trend somewhat the opposite...

corvette

I'm not fond of that shade of blue...

You know you're a CCB when you start to miss your repair nightmare E39 BMW, even though you have a car that is 95% as capable and infinitely more reliable in the driveway.

jayrider

stickguy said:

OK, here's a convertible with Fezo written all over it.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2009-saab-9~3-2_0t-used-13011017.html

I love those Saab convertibles.

nyccarguy

@breld‌

Reliability? I'm sure for the 1 year you have it, you'll be fine. Seriously though, this is a car that's mostly driven by young enthusiasts who like to tinker & experiment. Some of them are beaten and modified to within an inch of their life. A guy I know bought a used STi that checked out & drove great. It was immaculate with "just an intake & exhaust." He ended up with a major engine malfunction. The car started smoking on his way to work one AM. He found the car had one of those "piggy back chips." When he removed the chip, literally every single light on the dashboard lit up. Turns out the engine was fried. The previous owner turned the boost way up & never got the proper air/fuel mixture right.

fintail

I see more than the occasional WRX letting off smoke and fumes. Definitely a car where you'd want to know the previous owner, if buying used. The flat brimmed hat and Monster sticker set can be hard on a car.

roadburner

A properly tuned car can be pretty reliable- problem is, it's hard to determine which cars are and which ones aren't...

stickguy

RB, it is actually pretty easy. The ones that grenade themselves, weren't!

if you want to know before that though, probably a little more detective work needed.

breld

Well, between the already high used car prices and the risk of getting an abused example, a new WRX definitely seems the way to go. Not to mention I like the new model better anyway.

And @nyccarguy, you're absolutely right - I won't need to worry about any reliability issues during "my watch." Just more curious if I did happen to consider a used one.

To that end, re-selling one as adult-owned with no modifications should make it very attractive.

It's a no brainer - what am I waiting for?

stickguy

well, exploring all the other possible options, and thinking through the plan fully?

Nah, where is the fun in the 2nd part!

roadburner

breld said:

Well, between the already high used car prices and the risk of getting an abused example, a new WRX definitely seems the way to go. Not to mention I like the new model better anyway.

And @nyccarguy, you're absolutely right - I won't need to worry about any reliability issues during "my watch." Just more curious if I did happen to consider a used one.

To that end, re-selling one as adult-owned with no modifications should make it very attractive.

It's a no brainer - what am I waiting for?

Funny you mention that; the mechanics at my Mazda dealer refer to my MS3 as one of the few "unmolested" Mazdaspeeds that they know of- meaning my mods are essentially undetectable in normal driving and can all be easily reversed.

breld

Yeah - I imagine yours is rare. I'm sure there are other owners who have taken good care of them, but probably few and far between.

My in-laws' experience with their X-type opened my eyes a little to the potential "catastrophic" repair requirements that could nullify all the value in an older car. Understanding that's on a Jaguar model notorious for such issues, but still.

nyccarguy

I know you guys have heard this before, but I'm sticking with our Pilot for the long haul (yes @Michaell and @kyfdx, I know about the $2,750 trunk money, the 53% RV, & .001 mf). Besides the visual changes & the fact that a 2015 EX-L w/ Nav 4WD would have a power lift gate that my wife longs for, its the exact same vehicle as my 2011. So even if I were to strike a killer lease deal that would net me a very nice check to put towards my kitchen renno, it is a short term solution. The truth is that the Pilot is really close to being paid off. The total cost of a 3 year lease would be more than the equity I have in it now. If I pay off the Pilot and pay myself its payment I'd have more money in my pocket than if I were to cash out now.

jayrider

nyccarguy said:

I know you guys have heard this before, but I'm sticking with our Pilot for the long haul (yes @Michaell and @kyfdx, I know about the $2,750 trunk money, the 53% RV, & .001 mf). Besides the visual changes & the fact that a 2015 EX-L w/ Nav 4WD would have a power lift gate that my wife longs for, its the exact same vehicle as my 2011. So even if I were to strike a killer lease deal that would net me a very nice check to put towards my kitchen renno, it is a short term solution. The truth is that the Pilot is really close to being paid off. The total cost of a 3 year lease would be more than the equity I have in it now. If I pay off the Pilot and pay myself its payment I'd have more money in my pocket than if I were to cash out now.

A voice of reason resonates.

kyfdx

Stop Making Sense

stickguy

I know it goes against everything we believe in here, but it is a nice feeling when you have a nice, reliable, low cost to run car for some years after it is paid off. I can't wait until we finally get the RDX down with (payment wise), since that is on the 10 year plan (at least!) so minimum of 5 "free" ones (hopefully 6+ by paying it off early). Hopefully I get it paid off before it needs new tires (another of my pet peeves, having to spend big maintenance money on a car that I am making payments on).

kyfdx

kyfdx said:

Stop Making Sense

Oh... I was just quoting David Byrne..

fezo

nyc's decision on the Pilot may drive him out of here. Be gone, heathen!Oh, wait my last punch was probably a year ago with nothing on the horizon...

Never mind...

stickguy

Fezo, I tried to entice you. I shouldn't talk. Unless something happens to the Volvo, I am done until fall, 2017! Though before then I can help my son shop.

xwesx

nyccarguy said:

I'm sticking with our Pilot for the long haul

I came to the same conclusion on our Forester. I paid that off about a year ago, it only has 80K miles on it, and I already modded it with an upgraded suspension that I would require of any sort of a replacement anyway, so what's the point aside from spending money?

I dumped its payment into some college savings accounts for the kids and called it good. My wife doesn't like switching cars anyway. And, guys, I'm tellin' ya, that's a wonderful thing!

roadburner

Our family has put over 159k on the 2004 X3. We bought it in December 2005 and paid it off in 2007. Even if it needs an expensive repair every couple of years or so it still beats a car payment every month.

kyfdx

Well... just playing devil's advocate..

Just because you don't have a payment doesn't mean your car isn't depreciating. And, really..depreciation is the major expense in owning a car... way more than the financing.

So.. I've got a car that was 4 years old when I bought it, in 2010. I paid $21K cash for it, but that isn't really all that relevant, because a 4% loan at 48 months would have only been $1675 in interest, total.. or, about $35/mo.

I've been lucky... after 56 months, my car is still worth about $12K.. About $160/mo. in depreciation, so far. But, even though the car is "paid off" (and always has been), the depreciation doesn't stop.. If I keep it two more years, I fully expect it will still depreciate at about the same rate (worth $10K next year and $8K the year after that).

If you have a 12 year old car that is worth less than $5K, then yes.. depreciation is minimal at that point.. But, if you buy a new car and pay off the loan after 60 months, the true cost doesn't go to zero.... The car is still a depreciating asset and the depreciation plus increased maintenance/repair costs for a car out of warranty are probably a wash.. at least until year 8..

roadburner

And I'm at year 9; how do I get ahead of the game by buying a later model used car, picking up a car payment, as well as assuming an even steeper depreciation rate?

kyfdx

My point is... most people confuse cash flow with actual cost.

Yes.. it's less money each month to keep repairing an old car that is out of warranty vs. buying a newer car. But, that doesn't mean it is actually saving any money (it could be, but not necessarily).

stickguy

well, as with any asset, depreciation is only theoretical until you go to sell. But cashflow, that is real money every month!

besides, cars depreciate whether you are making payments or not. So it costs less to not be making payments, on top of the depreciation.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

well, as with any asset, depreciation is only theoretical until you go to sell. But cashflow, that is real money every month!

besides, cars depreciate whether you are making payments or not. So it costs less to not be making payments, on top of the depreciation.

The payments are independent of depreciation... the only extra cost that you have while making payments is the finance charge. (again, cash flow is not cost).

Depreciation is real, not theoretical. A car owner experiences it, even if it doesn't impact his cash flow, at the time.

And... I know you guys know this, already, and I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but not knowing the difference is what causes people to be "payment buyers", and to keep kicking the can down the road, until it kicks back..

breld

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:

well, as with any asset, depreciation is only theoretical until you go to sell. But cashflow, that is real money every month!

besides, cars depreciate whether you are making payments or not. So it costs less to not be making payments, on top of the depreciation.

The payments are independent of depreciation... the only extra cost that you have while making payments is the finance charge. (again, cash flow is not cost).

Depreciation is real, not theoretical. A car owner experiences it, even if it doesn't impact his cash flow, at the time.

Very well put! Payments are independent of depreciation - exactly right.

Obviously, monthly payments have a very real impact, and you have to budget accordingly. But at the end of the day, the depreciation is really your net cost (in addition to fuel, maintenance, etc. which will be part of any car, obviously).

breld

Had some extra time over the lunch hour.

Test drove two Hondas back to back:

Used 2013 Accord Coupe EX-L V6 Manual - Impressive. Clutch and shifter feel is what you'd expect from Honda. Acceleration is impressive with the V6. Didn't get a chance to push it very much to get a feel for the handling, but it felt competent. Road noise and comfort is what you'd expect from an Accord, which is to say great. Rear seat room is good for a coupe. One nagging thing - the handle for the driver's side door was right where my elbow sits, so it made it somewhat uncomfortable.

New Civic Si - wanted to drive it back to back with the Accord as well as give it another shot after my last test drive. I was somewhat surprised that I found it to be more fun to drive than the Accord. Obviously not as quick, but the seating position, seats themselves, steering wheel - they all have a more purposeful (sporty) feel to them. But, not surprisingly, there's much more road noise on the highway, and more engine sound on acceleration (good and bad).

Can't say I eliminated one or the other - Accord certainly felt more grown-up and would be great for the highway cruising section of the commute. But Civic was more tossable and fun. $23k for the Accord, CPO from Honda with about 23k miles. Seems pretty good for an EX-L V6 Nav.

stickguy

depreciation is theoretical in the same sense that your stocks appreciating is theoretical. Meaning it is on paper. Unless you sell the asset, it is unrealized and will change every time you look.

of course it is part of your cost, once you actually sell the car! Payments though, those come out of the bank account every month. so when you are making real payments, and accruing depreciation, then you are getting doubly whapped.

stickguy

Breld, better keep holding off on buying anything, if you still don't know what it is that you want/need (other than "A new car!"). Otherwise, we will be having this conversation again 3 months from now (buy Si, need something roomier/more comfortable or buy Accord, needed something sportier).

fezo

I;m kind of like that but my 26 year old is driving the Accord I bought new when she was 10. 350K and word of needing a catalytic converter. May spell the end of the line. It's been home car for three different drivers here. If my daughter weren't so bent on hitting 400K (Hey! 200K were mine! We'll see. Need a stick. I brought her up right.

stickguy

old Honda's have a lot better shot at going that far if they were a stick. One reason I tried to stick with sticks (see what I did there?) on older cars. Just trust them more.

breld

stickguy said:

Breld, better keep holding off on buying anything, if you still don't know what it is that you want/need (other than "A new car!"). Otherwise, we will be having this conversation again 3 months from now (buy Si, need something roomier/more comfortable or buy Accord, needed something sportier).

Having those conversations every 3-6 months is what keeps this forum going, no?

stickguy

I think the idea is that different people would take turns. But if you want to do all the work yourself, Mr. Edmunds probably won't complain.

rayainsw

'Having those conversations every 3-6 months is what keeps this forum going, no?'
Indeed.
- Ray
Doing my part here...

qbrozen

breld said:

Had some extra time over the lunch hour.

Test drove two Hondas back to back:

Used 2013 Accord Coupe EX-L V6 Manual - Impressive. Clutch and shifter feel is what you'd expect from Honda. Acceleration is impressive with the V6. Didn't get a chance to push it very much to get a feel for the handling, but it felt competent. Road noise and comfort is what you'd expect from an Accord, which is to say great. Rear seat room is good for a coupe. One nagging thing - the handle for the driver's side door was right where my elbow sits, so it made it somewhat uncomfortable.

New Civic Si - wanted to drive it back to back with the Accord as well as give it another shot after my last test drive. I was somewhat surprised that I found it to be more fun to drive than the Accord. Obviously not as quick, but the seating position, seats themselves, steering wheel - they all have a more purposeful (sporty) feel to them. But, not surprisingly, there's much more road noise on the highway, and more engine sound on acceleration (good and bad).

Can't say I eliminated one or the other - Accord certainly felt more grown-up and would be great for the highway cruising section of the commute. But Civic was more tossable and fun. $23k for the Accord, CPO from Honda with about 23k miles. Seems pretty good for an EX-L V6 Nav.

I would advise to get out there and really push it. That's where my manual V6 Accord failed miserably. The car felt pretty competent up to around 7 or 8 tenths. Beyond that, it was awful. Not a fun car. My Fit, with half the power, is immensely more entertaining than that Accord was.

graphicguy

Wife loves her Accord. But, she drives a lot differently than I do. Her's is the 4 cyl EX-L. Has everything she wants. Gets great MPG, and considering she only drives at 5/10s most of the time anyway, is perfect.

It will get frisky on the tists and turns, but it's hard to get into trouble with it.

If I were to get one, the V6 manual coupe would be the one I'd put in the garage. My wife makes a case for the Accord Hybrid, though. Again, very well executed by Honda. She test drove one and backed off of it because she didn't want anything "unconventional" (where she got that from, I don't know since she married me).

The onlly other hybrids I've ever driven was a Tahoe (which was at best, a mild hybrid), a Prius, which I did not like, at all, and the Accord, which I liked quite a lot.

I saw 3 Teslas in the wild yesterday. One red one, which I see all the time, and figure it belongs to someone in my 'burg (but can't find out who it is). And, I saw two white ones.....both on flat beds being taken to what I'll assume is some sort of regional service place. Or, they just ran out of juice. IS there a way to do an emergence charge on them, to get you home when you run out of juice?