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Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)
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Q, I think your feeling on the "fun factor" of your Fit vs. your previous Accord is similar to how I feel about the Civic Si. For that matter, I've actually been eyeing a used 2015 Fit EX manual - someone must have not liked it and "returned" it after 2k miles. The Honda dealer is asking $17,400, which is only $1,000 off MSRP, but given how they're selling, and holding their value, that could be a cheap way to go to scratch that itch I have for a manual - let's say you could sell it after a year for $15-16k - that's be a pretty cheap ownership.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
By the way, my salesperson yesterday at the Honda dealer was a really nice, knowledgeable, young Asian guy who races cars as a hobby. He said something about doing so for bmwcca, and that he has an F10 M5 that he has the "use of"?
While it seems there are many salespeople out there who can barely drive a stick at all, I was actually a little self-conscious with this guy - but he remarked on how well and quickly I found the "feel" of the manuals on the test drives. Not bad for not owning my own manual shifting car for a little while now! I still got it.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Around here, there are two Benz dealers, both owned by the same guy. So, not enough competition. I'd have to go to KY (about 40 miles away) to get something more competitive.
I know AMEX uses TrueCar for their numbers, as does USAA I believe. As you say, no trunk money I can find, either.
One offer? I'd roll in at $200 over invoice.
IF he wanted to play the game? Roll out $100 under invoice and start looking at every dealer within a 250 mile radius and play "dialing for dollars". Of course, no guarantees you'll hit the phone price once you walk in their door, but I'm betting someone will bite....after you burn up a tank of gas (maybe more) to get there.
For you warm weather folks: Went to the Pats/Ravens game with my son, temp at kickoff was 19 and when we left, 8. My last 4+ mile run was in 18 degree weather. What does that make me? Not bright...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
The new C400 is very expensive... and, even more so to lease.. Hopefully, he is sticking with the C300
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And indeed, they can be optioned up like that - loaded C400 can pass 62K without a lot of work. Loaded 3ers are in that range, too. After years of negligible price inflation on the entry models, prices have ballooned, as there are now lower models to take their place.
And like kyfdx mentioned, lease rates aren't too hot, at least not when I looked. A more expensive E was significantly less per month, and IMO is a better deal, even if it's the old timer in the lineup.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
C400 - std MF (.00180-.00220) and 58% for 36/15
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
The intangible here is the reliability and peace of mind that goes along with that. Really, desires aside, that's really what sparks the "I need a new car" trigger.
IMO, a $25K car depreciates at about the same rate, whether it is a 4 year old BMW or a brand-new Chevy..
That's just my anecdotal observation, though.. and, those might not be the best examples..
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I got more than 10% off my car, but it was towards the end of the year, as a current year model. Also from the forums I read, intense competition between California dealers can make for the best discounts in the country - people generally pay a little more everywhere else. That might help Shifty's friend too.
Consider my Forester as an example (MSRP 25.8). Value-wise, it was worth (locally) about 23 six months after I bought it. After twelve months, 21. at 24 months, 19. And now, at 66 months, 14.*
So, it lost 11% of it's value in six months. In the next six month, "only" 9%. And, over the next year, it lost about 10% total. Then, over another 3.5 years, about 25%. So, not only is the percentage depreciation drop slowing somewhat over time, but the actual cash value of that percentage is also dropping. (E.g., 10% of 26,000 is a lot more than 10% of 14,000).
This general curve is pretty consistent for all cars (excluding collectibles), though timing means a lot, I'm sure, for actual sales such as in/out of warranty, private vs. trade vs. retail, etc.
*Values based on KBB used retail.
In some cases, that may very well be true from an actual cash value standpoint. Some cars do depreciate more rapidly than others.
Consider my Forester as an example (MSRP 25.8). Value-wise, it was worth (locally) about 23 six months after I bought it. After twelve months, 21. at 24 months, 19. And now, at 66 months, 14.*
So, it lost 11% of it's value in six months. In the next six month, "only" 9%. And, over the next year, it lost about 10% total. Then, over another 3.5 years, about 25%. So, not only is the percentage depreciation drop slowing somewhat over time, but the actual cash value of that percentage is also dropping. (E.g., 10% of 26,000 is a lot more than 10% of 14,000).
Again, anecdotal, but this general curve is pretty consistent for all cars (excluding collectibles), though timing means a lot, I'm sure, for actual sales such as in/out of warranty, private vs. trade vs. retail, etc. Actual percentages and dollars obviously vary model to model, but they all exhibit this same slowing trend as a function of time and/or miles.
*Values based on KBB used retail.
All 3 of the above vehicles were selling in the range of $22k to $25k.
The leftover 2014 CR-V was going to cost me about $4,500 in depreciation, the 2015 CR-V came in about $5,500, and the Genesis was (hold on to your pants) $10,500.
I think if you want luxury, you're going to have to pay for it. One way or the other.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The problem with the C Class vs. the E Class is that there is some nice trunk money available on the E, but not the C.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
My 535i for instance - had an original MSRP of about $65k - probably could have been purchased for very low $60k's. I bought it 3 years old and 23k miles later for $38k. I assume the depreciation on the car the next three years will not be nearly as much.
I do believe in most cases, the more expensive the car, the greater that initial hit is going to be. In my own example above - that's about 35% depreciation for those first three years. I think if you start with a more "reasonably priced" car, the depreciation will tend to be less (both from a percentage standpoint and gross value).
For instance, if you buy a nice Honda Accord for $27k, it will likely still be worth around $20k a few years later - around 26% depreciation. I think that has to do with the general affordability of such a car - $20k may not be much of a discount off new, but it's a reasonable cost for a good car. Whereas on a luxury car, it has to get to some realm of affordability for people to consider it - and to do so, it takes a proportionately bigger hit in depreciation.
The Honda Fit is another good example - the previous model was what, $16-17k on average? I see used ones with a healthy amount of miles on them listed for a mere $3k or so off that new price. 'Cause for $13k, it's still a lot of car for the money. CR-V is also crazy on the used market.
And to be fair, to measure "true" depreciation, I would say you should compare retail to retail. Comparing what you paid a dealer for a car to current trade, or even private party, value includes a component of loss separate from the actual decline in value.
Wow! Now I'm really rambling on! Can you tell I work with numbers all day in my job?
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
As far as retail vs. others, I tend to look at retail only because I have no intent to sell. As such, retail value applies: The only way I'm getting rid of the Forester is if it gets hauled off in a stretcher (as it were). Ergo, insurance should be paying me based on used retail. Once you've sold it, you got what you got, and the spread applies.
What do you know about the Cayenne S Hybrid? I see some leftover, brand new 2014s with some pretty hefty discounts off sticker. Do you think I would require any additional maintenance compared to a standard V6 Cayenne? My Mom truly loved her 2011 V6 Cayennne, so did my Dad. He just didn't like paying to keep it on the road. I actually suggested a year old CPO Cayenne Diesel. It would be perfect for her as the diesel would most likely be an ex-loaner with 10K or so miles, doesn't have any spark plugs (which was an expensive service), and get great mileage as she drives 25K per year.
But I was shot down. She told me no diesel & no used cars.
Edit - I see Porsche has discontinued both the base V6 & The Cayenne S Hybrid. Definitely don't want an orphan car this pricey. Depreciation will be insane. I'm sure all the leftover 2014s will become service loaners at some point. Looks like the Diesel is now the base model.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
and yes, she is in Abu Dhabi.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I think very highly of the Cayenne Diesel--I think if Mom had given it a chance and a long test drive, she might have changed her mind.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I personally would have walked at $54K, at least for a few days and a few calls to other dealers, but it's not my deal or my money (thankfully). I did work out some nice option packages for my friend though, getting him past the stage where German car makes dangle shiny objects in front of you while they hand you the pen to tick off the options list. We had to draw the line somewhere. I mean, no all automakers have the nerve to charge you extra based on the color you choose. Really? nickel and dime, nickel and dime.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
For that kind of jack, I probably would have jumped on an E Class, too...given the incentives available and the likelihood that it will be worth more a little ways down the line.
I certainly did not choose the Charger [ V8 and all ] with MPG as a top priority, so these numbers are acceptable – to me.
YMMV.
- Ray
Zoom zoom . . .
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I have this mantra on how to gain a reputation for giving good advice. "Find out what someone actually wants to do and help them do it".
At the end of the day it sounds like he was indeed happy and if there are other issues afoot, then why the heck not!
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
The lines of the car look much better in person than in pictures - still nothing too extravagant, but clean conservative look with some nice creases.
Interior is impressive, I thought - roomy feel considering the relatively small exterior size. Instrumentation was sharp looking.
Sporty drive with quick handling. Transmission (8-speed DCT) provided smooth starts, and shift points were aggressive in sport mode. Overall acceleration leaves a bit to be desired, but that's not surprising for the 4 cylinder. I thought the character of the 4 cylinder was fun - but of course that's where my mind's at, what with looking at Civic Si's and such. Got on the highway, and the car was very quiet.
Overall I liked it a lot - all the goodness from an Accord, but with a bit more style and upscale feel. Plus some extras not available on the Honda - blind-spot monitoring (not just the lanewatch), 8-speed DCT, a little extra hp, nicer stereo (I think), control knob for the touchscreen(s). All for just under a $5k premium (comparing this Tech model to a EX-L Nav Accord).
If I was "ready" for more of a replacement for the 5-series, I'd really consider this. With what I'm looking at now, if Acura would've offered a stick, I would buy it.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman