Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Sandman6472

Speaking of a Ford Fusion, drove a new one last week and was pleasantly surprised with it, think it blows both the Camry and Accord out of the water and the one negative being the mpg's as compared to the Camcorder twins. Overall, a good job by Ford. Drove the SE model and found the infotainment system more complicated that many others in this segment, something I do not understand. Things like this need to be super simple so it only takes a few minutes to get the system up and running. I, for one, do not like complicated tech and shy away from anything with it.
But, at the end of the day, I came away with a very positive of the Ford Fusion SE.

The Sandman

stickguy

Hey Bradd, 328 HP, and the price dropped.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2014-infiniti-q50-4dr_sedan_awd_premium-used-14461365.html

breld

nyccarguy said:

breld said:

@nyccarguy - Once again, there's a lightly used, well taken care of S3 available here in the Denver area that would certainly solve your power concerns. I'm sure the dealership here can ship. I'll even check it out for you.

@breld - what are they asking for it compared to what they gave you for it?  How much cheaper is it than a new one?

They already have it listed, at $42,991, which is pretty absurd. That's about $3k less than we paid new, and about $7k over the trade. Another dealer recently had an almost identical one for right at $40k and that listing is now gone. The wife's was a loaded prestige with tech, so not sure if that one was the same, but I would guess $39-40k would be about right (like Michael said).

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

Hey Bradd, 328 HP, and the price dropped. http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2014-infiniti-q50-4dr_sedan_awd_premium-used-14461365.html

You are an evil man.  Tempting me to succumb to the powers of the dark side

stickguy

if it drops to 25K you'll cave.

I feel bad for that place. starting in the summer of 2017, I will be stalking them on a weekly (if not daily!) basis.

actually, when it gets close to the time, if I have finally decided on my dream car, I will likely talk to them about finding it. Not that I am picky or anything, but it has to be exactly equipped right! The odds of finding it go way up when someone with access to the auctions, etc. is out looking.

js06gv

breld said:

nyccarguy said:

breld said:

@nyccarguy - Once again, there's a lightly used, well taken care of S3 available here in the Denver area that would certainly solve your power concerns. I'm sure the dealership here can ship. I'll even check it out for you.

@breld - what are they asking for it compared to what they gave you for it?  How much cheaper is it than a new one?

They already have it listed, at $42,991, which is pretty absurd. That's about $3k less than we paid new, and about $7k over the trade. Another dealer recently had an almost identical one for right at $40k and that listing is now gone. The wife's was a loaded prestige with tech, so not sure if that one was the same, but I would guess $39-40k would be about right (like Michael said).

So about a 10K difference between your purchase price and trade? That's a pretty hefty hit. Trying to remember, did you have it for a year?

stickguy

I like what Breld did here. I used to do that all the time, and should get back to it.

basically, feed your addiction by trading even (or if you keep a car a little longer, adding a small amount). Works better of course if you are buying/selling at the same plane (retail to retail, meaning not involving a dealer!)

I used to use IIRC $5,000 and 2-3 years. basically what I could sell current ride for after that period, add $5k (max) and that was the play money for the new ride!

nyccarguy

Hmmm - while carbonite is backing up my computer files for the 1st time, I checked out some WRX figures:

a 12K per year lease on a WRX Limited ($32,390 sticker) with CVT looks like it would cost me about $413 per month.  I know, I know - (caveman voice):  Bradd drive 20K per year miles.  12K per year no good.

(no more caveman voice):  the lease end residual would be right around 20K.  Find me a 3 year old WRX for 20K.  It probably doesn't exist.

The dealer where I bought and service my car has a 2015 WRX Limited with a 6 speed & 17K miles on it (in service date of 11/6/2014 listed for $26,900.  The Carmax says it is a corporate vehicle.  That seems like a healthy discount.  It isn't listed as a Subaru CPO car.  Good thing it is a stick, otherwise I might make plans to drive it tomorrow:)

stickguy

I forget which dealer you bought at (Kolb doesn't have it). But they do have this, which seems like a pretty good value buy!

http://www.bkcars.com/used/Subaru/2015-Subaru-Legacy-orangeburg-ny-6e750f190a0e0ae704465759c636c14e.htm

nyccarguy

$20,386 retail? So what is that, $17,5 at auction or $18K?

I bought from the Subaru Dealer in Rye, NY. The dealer here in Stamford was willing to sell me the car at a lower price, but their conveyance fee (fancy word for doc fee here in CT) made their total out the door price $100 more expensive than where I ended up buying from.

nyccarguy

@robr2 hasn't said anything in quite some time. Does anybody have his offline contact info?

rayainsw

I rented a Fusion last Fall, in Maine. I drove it for several hundred miles.
I may have to drive a 2017 Sport. Just to see...
- Ray
I do find the specs intriguing...

qbrozen

rayainsw said:

"2017 Ford Fusion gets 325-hp Sport model with AWD" and MSRP $34,350.
I find this interesting...
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/01/11/2017-ford-fusion-sport-detroit-auto-show/

Oh, that could be very very interesting. I will be hoping for a good transmission. Could be a replacement for that Volvo S60R I never did obtain.

But I do have to laugh at this part of the PR: "The Fusion Sport model also has a continuously controlled damping suspension"

Really? Continuously controlled damping? Oh my! I haven't seen that since shocks were invented.

graphicguy

Q....thought about you over the weekend. Went to get my car washed at the dealer on Friday, mainly for an interior and window cleaning (silly, given a monsoon hit here on Saturday). SM at the Caddy dealer has been sitting on two '16 ATS-Vs for a couple of months. He was saying he might put one of them out as a demo for him to drive so he can get $$$$ from GM to lower the price.

He said..."you ever driven an ATS-V?"

"Nope"!

He and I hopped into a beautiful black one and off we went....me driving.

GOOD GOLLY MISS MOLLY!!!!!!!!!!!! What a ride. I understand that it costs north of $70K. But, I don't know of anything near it's price that is as exciting to drive.

I told him there's no way I am trading. He just snickered.

He said he's got a CTS-V on the way, too.

At least he was honest and said he's lost sales in the "Senior Circuit" (his words) as they come in thinking their going to experience an updated "Coupe de Ville" and get a sporty luxury car instead. If Caddy could get the 40-ish to 50-ish demographic with money into the showroom, they might make some waves. They can't get enough of those folks, so it seems.

Mr_Shiftright

Which would you choose if you were the CEO of a car company? A product line that looked better than it performed, or a product line that performed better than it looked? I think that's Cadillac's problem.

qbrozen

Personally, I think Caddy looks AND performs great right now. Their problem seems to be pricing and perception. How do you erase so many years of the same old thing? It is like buying a 20-year-old business that has run itself into the ground and trying to convince the community to come back, "we're under new management," etc. So, you need to lower prices for a while, without cutting corners, and then maybe, eventually, you can slowly raise them. I think we've discussed this very thing around here before, though, so nothing new.

ATS-V is interesting, but I wouldn't pick it over the CTS V-sport, personally. At least if you choose an M3 over a 550i, for example, you get a discount of a couple grand. The ATS-V and CTS V-sport have almost the same starting price. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me when both are a twin turbo 3.6, same trans, same suspension, etc, but the CTS is (from what I've read) nicer inside and certainly roomier.

Mr_Shiftright

Ah, you are explaining what I was trying to explain, but less well. It's hard to discern the differences in the Cadillac models. I guess what I meant to say is that the Cadillacs LOOK fine, no problem, but they don't look like what they can do--if that makes any sense. It's all a "blur" with the Cadillac product line.

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

Ah, you are explaining what I was trying to explain, but less well. It's hard to discern the differences in the Cadillac models. I guess what I meant to say is that the Cadillacs LOOK fine, no problem, but they don't look like what they can do--if that makes any sense. It's all a "blur" with the Cadillac product line.

No disagreement. Cadillac's issues aren't going to be solved in a year, or maybe not even a generation of cars. As I've always believed, you are what your past says you are. If you want a different present, make sure you are working on making a path for a different past right now.

Mr_Shiftright

Exactly. If you took that same CST-V and put a Hyundai badge on it, it would be gushed over in the automotive press as a marvel equal to or exceeding the impact of the original Lexus LS400.

Maybe some folks think that the usual reaction of "I was delightfully surprised at the performance" is a good thing, but I'm not so sure. At this point in time, car buyers should already be well aware of what these hi-po Cadillacs can do.

But they're not. Or they don't care.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

But I do have to laugh at this part of the PR: "The Fusion Sport model also has a continuously controlled damping suspension"

Really? Continuously controlled damping? Oh my! I haven't seen that since shocks were invented.

The brain-dead moron who wrote that ad copy must be the spiritual successor to the imbecile who cranked out a Ford ad in the early '70s- it noted that the Mustang had an "independent front suspension; just like an Aston Martin!"

stickguy

Well the media does gush over the CTS-V. Problem is not much market, even without overcoming being badged as a daddy.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah but the "gush" drags the past in with it, every time. Regrettable.

qbrozen

That's true. I think every review has had caveats in it. For every positive, they seem to footnote it with a negative. Like the C&D review of the ATS-V, for example.

But while the chassis is delightful, a dull interstate drive is when the interior’s dissonance begins to annoy.

Optional, $2300 Recaro chairs...are supportive and look great, but don’t examine them too closely or you might notice that the leather is pulling away. And make sure that you spec the $300 microsuede-wrapped steering wheel or you’ll get a leather covering that might as well be vinyl.

But at the same time, the Germans don’t build roadgoing concept cars—Cadillac does. Still, the beauty of the ATS-V is outweighed by the annoyances it creates.

We can’t find major faults with the 464-hp twin-turbocharged V-6 under the vented hood.... There’s a slight grittiness as the engine spins past the 3500-rpm torque peak, but it’s only really noticeable if you’ve recently driven, say, the silky V-8 of the Mercedes-AMG C63 S.

ab348

Just more examples of the anti-GM bias.

suydam

Aren't positives and negatives part of any review?

abacomike

ab348 said:

Just more examples of the anti-GM bias.

I read a review by C&D on both the MB E400 and the CLS550 - both had the same "non-committal" review, i.e., this is nice, but that is uncomfortable; the steering is responsive but it just isn't...; the twin turbos are smooth and responsive, but the micro-second delay of...!

ab, it all depends on one's perspective.  If you look for faults or biases, you will find them - in any review from any automotive writer.  When I read those reviews, I consider the good with the not so good - then I decide if the review turns me on to the car or not.

Sometimes it's best to take reviews as just one writer's or editor's point of view.  If I took MB reviews literally, I'd probably would be driving a "kiddie" car! 

Mr_Shiftright

abacomike said:

ab348 said:

Just more examples of the anti-GM bias.

I read a review by C&D on both the MB E400 and the CLS550 - both had the same "non-committal" review, i.e., this is nice, but that is uncomfortable; the steering is responsive but it just isn't...; the twin turbos are smooth and responsive, but the micro-second delay of...!

ab, it all depends on one's perspective.  If you look for faults or biases, you will find them - in any review from any automotive writer.  When I read those reviews, I consider the good with the not so good - then I decide if the review turns me on to the car or not.

Sometimes it's best to take reviews as just one writer's or editor's point of view.  If I took MB reviews literally, I'd probably would be driving a "kiddie" car! 

The review was a little catty I have to admit...."nice seats but we all know about GM quality...wink wink, nudge nidge..."

berri

I think the Detroit auto show is producing a lot of interesting product and direction. Will the new Chrysler Pacifica revive the minivan market? Will the new Continental move American's back to their traditional definition of luxury? Will Americans accept made in China Buick's or become cautious that GM is becoming too Chinese? Is placing the new GMC Acadia sort of between an Enclave or Traverse and a Terrain or Equinox going to be a good niche or one where there really isn't enough of a market? I have no idea how each will turn out, but it's certainly interesting Detroit marketing strategies.

qbrozen

suydam said:

Aren't positives and negatives part of any review?

I just don't think as many. Take, for another example, their recent review of the 340i. Whereas it seems EVERY compliment of the ATS-V was met with a counterpoint, the same does not hold true of the 340i. I am actually hard pressed to find much negative. The only one really being "bit too heavy steering." And, if you stretched your definition of negative, they do say the 340 "lacks the sumptuous interior of the C-class." But that really is more of a "something else is better" rather than saying something on the Bimmer is bad.

I'm not saying they aren't doing their job. Maybe they just found more to complain about in the caddy. I was just illustrating Shifty's point that, regardless of how much the press seems to love the new Cadillacs, they often seem to talk out both sides of their mouths when reviewing them.

suydam

For instance they all love the Mazda 3, yet almost every reviewer points out the tight back seat and road noise. I don't see that as bashing, just writing a good review. And o might ultimately drive it myself and disagree, but that doesn't mean the review wasn't fair. 

xwesx

I think we all agree that reviews discuss both positive and negative aspects of the reviewer's opinion of the vehicle. The quote Q put up there, though.... it really was a standout in that it effectively dismissed every positive aspect by following it with a BUT. That word, "but," just has a way of negating whatever came before it. This is always true, which is what makes the reviewer's intent so questionable.

tifighter

berri said:

I think the Detroit auto show is producing a lot of interesting product and direction. Will the new Chrysler Pacifica revive the minivan market? Will the new Continental move American's back to their traditional definition of luxury? Will Americans accept made in China Buick's or become cautious that GM is becoming too Chinese? Is placing the new GMC Acadia sort of between an Enclave or Traverse and a Terrain or Equinox going to be a good niche or one where there really isn't enough of a market? I have no idea how each will turn out, but it's certainly interesting Detroit marketing strategies.

I agree; it has been a fun upcoming-car January. I personally find the new Bolt and Pacifica PHEV to be compelling, of course, but have to admit that the new Conti seems nicer than I was expecting.

xwesx

Continental....?! I just took a look at their site , and all I have to say is "Wow!" Lincoln finally built a worthy flagship!

I hope it does well for them and that the quality is top-notch.

ab348

suydam said:

For instance they all love the Mazda 3, yet almost every reviewer points out the tight back seat and road noise. I don't see that as bashing, just writing a good review. And o might ultimately drive it myself and disagree, but that doesn't mean the review wasn't fair. 

My pet peeve. Yes, they may mention those things about the Mazda, but almost always in an offhanded way or in an unimportant tone. For a lot of buyers, they notice those things on a test drive and turn around. The free pass Mazda gets from virtually all auto writers simply astounds me. BMW used to be the same, and still is for some reviewers, but at least some are commenting on some of their more questionable products lately.

ab348

berri said:

I think the Detroit auto show is producing a lot of interesting product and direction. Will the new Chrysler Pacifica revive the minivan market? Will the new Continental move American's back to their traditional definition of luxury? Will Americans accept made in China Buick's or become cautious that GM is becoming too Chinese? Is placing the new GMC Acadia sort of between an Enclave or Traverse and a Terrain or Equinox going to be a good niche or one where there really isn't enough of a market? I have no idea how each will turn out, but it's certainly interesting Detroit marketing strategies.

I have a feeling the Lincoln is going to land with a dull thud. Buick isn't on the radar of many buyers in the US so I doubt the origins will matter as much as getting them into the showroom. I always thought the Acadia/Enclave were ridiculously bulky so shrinking it makes a lot of sense - my only question is whether the Traverse and Enclave shrink too. The Pacifica looks better than the current minivan offering but whether it takes off depends on how much chrysler is willing to deal on it, given their dubious reputation for quality.

corvette

I didn't care for the Continental. The Pacifica looks nice, but would sell better if they offered AWD.

It's interesting that they're making the Acadia smaller/lighter. That will leave more daylight between it and the Yukon. I would anticipate the next generation Terrain will also be smaller and lighter and drop the optional V6. Rest assured, the Acadia will be woefully underpowered with the standard four cylinder.

The Ridgeline looks nice.

VW's CEO has not heard of the Law of Holes. On Sunday, he told an NPR interviewer "it was a technical problem" and "we didn't lie." In a follow-up interview, he admitted that VW accepts the violation and apologized for the situation they created, before going on to say that "it's a lot of work for the lawyers and also for the press department." I think their stock price would go up if they quit letting him talk to the press.

nyccarguy

Very exciting things coming from the Detroit auto show.  The ridgeline which makes me want to go out and own a pickup truck.  The 2.7 L Turbo AWD V6 Fusion Sport makes me want to trade in my Legacy.  I love the Pacifica name on the Chrysler minivan & it's looks great. Now if they only offer AWD they could give the Sienna a run for its money.

Mr_Shiftright

I think the new Lincoln had to swing for the seats but it looks more like a double. Nice interior, exterior is just like many other cars. I mean, really, does this car look so much better than a Chrysler 300C Platinum?

ab348

Actually when I saw the interior I thought it looked like a Chrysler interior due to many of the design themes, like the two-tone steering wheel rim.

jpp75

breld said:

@nyccarguy - Once again, there's a lightly used, well taken care of S3 available here in the Denver area that would certainly solve your power concerns. I'm sure the dealership here can ship. I'll even check it out for you.

@nyccarguy Don't forget about the gently used Q50 AWD too.

jpp75

stickguy said:

Hey Bradd, 328 HP, and the price dropped.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2014-infiniti-q50-4dr_sedan_awd_premium-used-14461365.html

He could have a hybrid for just a touch more........

stickguy

I already got the hook baited on a Q50 for him in Jersey. just have to give one more tug to set it.

I think that Conti looks snappy. Mid section mimics a RR with normal opening doors. back end seems large Mercedesish.

stickguy

Man, that Ridgeline looks nice. easily the best looking PU on the market, and probably the only one that is a manageable size. Wonder how long it actually is going to be? Hope they have it at philly too.

Tiguan looks sharp too.

xwesx

stickguy said:

easily the best looking PU on the market

Really? I feel exactly the opposite about it. I thought it was a real let-down. Even so, it has some great features that cover for its failings. I didn't think it was possible, but appearance-wise, it is a step down from the original gen.

stever

I think it looks better from the one pic I've seen. Didn't much care for the high slanted side rails on the last one.

ab348

stickguy said:

Man, that Ridgeline looks nice. easily the best looking PU on the market, and probably the only one that is a manageable size. Wonder how long it actually is going to be? Hope they have it at philly too.

Tiguan looks sharp too.

I thought the original Ridgeline was absolutely hideous, a kartoon kar, something that I would never consider and would always wonder why anyone would buy. This one looks really good, very tidy, nice size and I'm sure well-made. Very interesting.

stickguy

I never cared for the old style Ridgeline either. Just too tall looking and awkward. this one at least the bed looks usable.

houdini1

suydam said:

Aren't positives and negatives part of any review?

Yes, but in most reviews the negatives are added as an afterthought, not to undermine the positives. I don't own a Cadillac or any American car, but that wording seems biased to me. C&D never met a BMW or Audi that they didn't love.

I really disliked the old Ridgeline, but I really like the new one.

Michaell

Punch?  It is certainly possible… 

stickguy

Cashing in the GM points Michael? Do tell!