Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Sandman6472

Interesting drives at work today. Drove a '15 GLK 350 with 17K on it and really really liked the way it drove and the seating position but the rectangular boxy shape was a real turnoff...kind of ugly in an expensive sort of way. Passed a new GLE I think it's called while driving it and the difference was so drastic but in a really nice way. With the previous generation, felt like I was driving a box down the turnpike, a very nicely appointed one at that. Just not sure I'd ever want to own a pre-owned one to be honest. Did like that it had ample power whenever I touched the accelerator though.
Next up we had a '13 Lexus ES 350 with about 56K on it and it looked it, inside and out! Definitely was a tired vehicle that I was driving to the wholesale location but...it still drove like a car with half the miles! Gotta give it to Toyota/Lexus, they know how to make smooth running peppy vehicles that are fun to drive. The GLK felt like an old person's car compared to the ES, I mean the ES felt like it could run with the best of them while the GLK was content to just go down the highway...I never felt the desire to really hit the accelerator like I did in the Lexus. Call me crazy but think I'd rather drive the Lexus as a d d instead of the MB...the Lexus just felt more fun, if that makes any sense.
Drove another 6 or so vehicles during the day but the one that put a real smile on my face was a newish '16 Grand Cherokee. It's no secret that I really like the new crop of Jeep's and this was the first time behind the wheel of the Grand Cherokee and I absolutely loved it. It seems to be the perfect vehicle in so many ways...I just love it!! Did almost everything right and the only bad thing was that after almost a 1/2 hour, I had to give up the keys. Excellent vehicle!!
Am very lucky that my lead driver gets how much I am into cars so whenever he choses something cool to bring to one of our locations, he usually throws me the keys and with a smile says, "have fun"! Going in is always exciting because we never know what we're going to drive and for a car junkie like myself, I feel like I've died and gone to car heaven in many ways. And luckily, more and more new 2016 models are being dropped off daily so it really is a pleasure to go in.
But, even after driving all these really cool vehicles all day long, I still smile as I get into my VW Golf and drive home. It doesn't get much better than that!!!

The Sandman

berri

Lincoln had to swing for the seats but it looks more like a double.

If that comes true it may not be be good news for the continued viability of the brand.

Yeah, I agree that the exterior is a bit meh. But then Lexus sells a bunch with really a somewhat unattractive to me at least exterior. My fear is they keep repeating the mistake Cadillac is also making, charging big European like prices. They end up either discounting the heck out of them or losing more sales to MB and the like. Price it aggressively initially until it catches on. Lincoln and Cadillac haven't really been in the higher dollar lux business successfully for awhile. They need to relearn how Lexus broke in.

stickguy

I really should stop browsing. Found this little puppy. Seems like a reasonable price for a CPO. another 11 months normal warranty + 2 more CPO. Low miles. Reasonably well equipped (premium/cold weather), at least for the non-hot rodders out there.

Probably the advantage to RWD (truly rare up here on anything where AWD is an option) in the winter! Plus my least favorite color combo.

not that I need a car or anything.

http://www.bmwofmtlaurel.com/certified/BMW/2013-BMW-128i+Coupe-Mount-Laurel-f810582d0a0e0a6b431b22b2819f5993.htm

nyccarguy

I see Lexus has stepped up their L-Certified CPO program and offers an extra 2 years & unlimited mileage warranty aside from their standard 4/50

stickguy

That 1 series has 35 months/75,000 miles on the CPO warranty. To me, that is as good as unlimited! Plus, I assume 35/45,000 powertrain (that 2 year CPO really just does gussy up the powertrain warranty a bit, assuming you stay under the miles limit on the PT one)..

Darn. too bad I don't need a car. My wife would probably even like that one. I don't need a backseat either really.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Cashing in the GM points Michael? Do tell!

I did make it to the Chevy dealer today...

roadburner

houdini1 said:

Yes, but in most reviews the negatives are added as an afterthought, not to undermine the positives. I don't own a Cadillac or any American car, but that wording seems biased to me. C&D never met a BMW or Audi that they didn't love.

CD has repeatedly criticized the Fxx BMWs as having poor suspension tuning and absolutely numb steering. As a BMW owner of over 32 years I will tell you that the criticism of these new BMWs is totally justified. Munich has decided to pander to the wearers and badge whores who care only about the emblems on the hood and the numbers on the trunk.These moronic fools would buy a BMW even if it had the driving dynamics of a 1984 Cavalier- and the new BMWs are definitely heading in that direction.
Meh.

ab348

Malibu? Cruze? Sonic? Do tell...

Michaell

ab348 said:

Malibu? Cruze? Sonic? Do tell...

I test drove the 2016 Malibu Limited 1LT with convenience package. White with tan interior.

breld

nyccarguy said:

Very exciting things coming from the Detroit auto show.  The ridgeline which makes me want to go out and own a pickup truck.  The 2.7 L Turbo AWD V6 Fusion Sport makes me want to trade in my Legacy.  I love the Pacifica name on the Chrysler minivan & it's looks great. Now if they only offer AWD they could give the Sienna a run for its money.

I too have been recently giving thought to a pickup truck for the first time....ever.

The Colorado sure is getting a lot of attention, and the restyled Tacoma really catches my eye. The Ridgeline would undoubtedly offer a nicer interior and composed ride, with all the functionality that a truck would ever need in my hands. I do think it looks a bit bland, at least in pictures, but that's probably intentional and a smart move on Honda's part. It'll be interesting to see the response the market gives to it.

tjc78

I'm not quite sure what GM is thinking with a smaller Acadia. That is a big seller for them. We like the size of our Enclave, I hope they don't mess with it.

Michaell

Can't sleep. Too much on my mind.

So, back to last night. Had some free time, so I went to the local Chevy dealer to look at what my GM points could get me.

Three possibilities - Cruze, Trax or Malibu (Limited). I've rented a Cruze and the entry/exit is a bit low for me, what with all the getting in and out of my car I do for the pizza job. Scratch that.

The Trax is a nice little package, but the lease deals on them are adequate at best. Not off the list, but not at the top of it, either.

Which leaves the Malibu (Limited). This is the "old" Malibu carried over to 2016 - the one that everyone complains as having a small back seat for the class. But, with over $4000 of lease cash to go with my $4000 of GM Points, it makes for a compelling deal.

So, which trim level? The LT has most of what I want, and the Convenience Package adds power seats, rear view camera, remote start (not push button start). Dealer has, I dunno, over a dozen equipped this way on the lot, in exactly three colors - white with tan interior, or silver or black with black interior.

The test drive was done on all surface streets - that's a majority of the driving I do. The car is quite nice. 197 HP from the 2.5L engine, and the 6-speed auto is smooth. It is equipped with the stop/start technology, but I never noticed it on the test drive - it was either disabled or so unobtrusive that I never noticed it. One small nit - the transmission is equipped with a "manu-matic" feature, but its controlled through a rocker switch on top of the gear level. Odd and would take some getting used to.

The ride was nice - given that it's bigger and heavier than my E-GT, I can't say I'm surprised by this. I'm getting older and I'm just not sure how "firm" I want the suspension to be.

Interior materials were OK - at this price point I'm not expecting luxury. It is equipped with MyLink, so there is a touch screen interface for the audio system. It is missing heated seats compared to my E-GT, but that's about it. Bluetooth audio, USB port, XM - all the infotainment options are there. Back seat is small, but the specs say it has a couple more inches of legroom as compared to the Hyundai. Big trunk.

MPG is not great for a mid-size sedan - 24/34. E-GT is rated at 27/37 and I'm just a tick under 28 MPG in the 2 years I've owned it. However, the Malibu does have an 18.5 gallon tank, so even with less MPG I'm still likely to get more miles per tank - about 100 or so, if my calculations are correct.

Back at the dealership, the salesperson asks if I want to run some numbers. Sure, why not. Sales Manager comes in and we talk about my GM points - I left my printout at home, so it's hard to prove I have as many as I do.

Turns out the 24 month lease term is best - lower MF. If I roll the tax obligation on the $9000 of incentives into the cap cost, he quoted me a payment of about $125/mo + tax. I need to get the hard numbers from them; when I plug it all into my lease calculator, I get something like $22/mo, so there are some costs I'm not factoring into the deal.

This excludes any negative equity I may have from the Hyundai - we talked about it, but I had no research ready to go into any detail.

Wife is ambivalent about the whole thing, and I'm still on the fence. I'm going to call Hyundai Finance and get a payoff, and I've asked q for a trade value on the Hyundai so I have the numbers handy. I may take it to CarMax as well and get them to put a trade value on it. If I'm too upside-down I may just hold off (every $1000 of negative equity would add about $40/mo to my pre-tax lease payment).

It's an appliance, and it doesn't move me all that much, but it's new and it's cheap (at the moment). And, it's only 24 months, which means I'd be back in the market sooner that I originally thought - and that's never a bad thing here at CCBA.

Opinions welcome.

rayainsw

The 2017 Fusion ‘Build & Price’ \ configuration page is now active on the Ford web site.
Adding the options I would probably want [ about $6,000 worth! ] to a Sport, the total MSRP shown is $40,555.
Options I selected include a moonroof, nav, cooled front seats, heated steering wheel, etc.
The specs suggest [ to me ] that this ought to be capable of low 13s in the quarter mile.
[ somewhat quicker than the Charger ]
I think this will definitely be worth driving, sometime this Fall.
- Ray
Interesting times in the automotive industry . . .

graphicguy

Ray....interesting note that you think the Fusion Sport would be capable of outgunning the Charger.

Maybe it's me, but I'd have a hard time wrapping my mind around a $40K Fusion, too.

Still, would be interested to test drive one, if given the chance.

Agreed about "interesting times". Cars are getting faster while fuel economy is getting better. That's something most thought were opposite goals just few short years ago.

nyccarguy

@graphicguy - don't worry about the $40K sticker price on that Fusion - between the bonus cash, competitor cash, promotion of the month... I guarantee you the transaction price will be closer to $32K.  There's nothing wrong with that either.  I'm always able to look past a car's sticker price.

rayainsw

Well, I could certainly be wrong about that quarter mile time.
I base that estimate on the quoted HP & TQ of the TT V6,
and an [ estimated ] weight at least 350 - 400 pounds
less than the Charger V8.
- Ray
We shall see ....

nyccarguy

I definitely agree with the interesting automotive times assessment - I just built a 2016 Camaro 1SS online.  8 Speed Automatic, Magnetic Ride Control, Slick Top, 455 hp V8 - factory claimed 4.0 seconds 0-60 mph time with a sticker price of $40,485.

I'm sure @roadburner would go for the 6 speed stick & the $3,100 Performance Brake Upgrade package.

stickguy

Wonder how that fusion sport compares to an Infiniti Q50? Can get a screaming deal on one of those!

Michael, so if you just needed a car (no trade), could have at first pencil did a S&D for $125/24? Damn. Def worth doing if you could also just hand over keys to Hyundai, or Carmax out of it.

You should also stop at Hyundai. Great deals for current owners on a sonata SE. And no back seat room issues there! Plus easier to swap out Elantra.

Sandman6472

Stick, I could live with any of those three 1 Series BMW's, though I am leaning towards the Space Gray even with the black interior, in South Florida, the taupe would definitely be cooler. Plan on visiting the BMW store near me to test drive just to see. When I went hunting back in 2013, found a white over black in the showroom but...the battery was dead! Talk about awkward, the sales guy was falling all over himself trying to jump it but nothing. Ended up never going back but now, might just go look see again for fun sake. But I know the wife would divorce me if I even look at another vehicle for another four to five years. But now, I'm curious...and even when the girls drop by, they have four door vehicles so me having a coupe wouldn't be an issue, except for the wife.
Well, off to the dentist, then down to the office to finish out the week. Mike, drive a lot of Malibu's at work, usually 1T's, and for what it's worth, they drive nicely and are comfortable. Sure, it's an appliance but in the right color combo, and I do like the white over beige so much better than silver over black, it could be the perfect vehicle for the next couple of years. I've learned one thing these past couple of years...never say never!!!

The Sandman

suydam

Michaell it may be cheap but you don't sound like your heart is in it. If it's something you have to drive a lot I wouldn't get something unless you saw it as better than what you have now, that doesn't seem to be the case. With all the city driving you do the mpg could get very irritating after awhile. Did you take a look at the Buick equivalents? You might enjoy a Verano or Encore much more and there are always heavy discounts on them in addition to your points (especially the Verano which isn't selling well as its due to be replaced by a newer version soon).

Michaell

suydam said:

Michaell it may be cheap but you don't sound like your heart is in it. If it's something you have to drive a lot I wouldn't get something unless you saw it as better than what you have now, that doesn't seem to be the case. With all the city driving you do the mpg could get very irritating after awhile. Did you take a look at the Buick equivalents? You might enjoy a Verano or Encore much more and there are always heavy discounts on them in addition to your points (especially the Verano which isn't selling well as its due to be replaced by a newer version soon).

I did take an on-line look at the Verano ... it is saddled with the old 2.4L engine and the MPG is 21/32, so even worse than the Malibu. And, the lease numbers are just adequate.

Encore is just a more expensive version of the Trax - not bad, not good. Would need to look at and drive one to see how I liked it.

Regarding MPG, I've been getting about 300 miles to a tank on the Elantra. Getting another 100 or so miles to a tank would allow me to stretch the refill rate from once a week to once every 10 days.

I guess it's not a lack of passion about the Malibu - it's a decent enough car, and would probably give me the same level of satisfaction as a Camry or Sonata for the type of driving I do. It's that I'm somewhat pessimistic that the trade will make this too expensive, so I'm staying emotionally detached from the deal.

Part of that may be due to all the moderating I do on these forums - I'm always telling folks to "shop the car, not the deal". Ought to take my own advice, but the deal is really, really good at the moment.

qbrozen

Michaell, why are you limiting yourself to the Chevy dealer? Buick is offering yet another fantastic lease deal on the Encore. Is your Hyundai a lease? If so, the Encore deal is $175/mo with $175 due at signing. Granted, that is only 10k miles/yr, so you'd need to bump that up. I'm not sure what difference that makes, but let's say its $50 (can it be that much?). $225/mo with $175 due and minus your $4k points is only $65/mo plus taxes and tags.

edit: you snuck in a post before mine. Check out the Encore. I was impressed with it and my sister loves hers.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Michael, so if you just needed a car (no trade), could have at first pencil did a S&D for $125/24? Damn. Def worth doing if you could also just hand over keys to Hyundai, or Carmax out of it.

You should also stop at Hyundai. Great deals for current owners on a sonata SE. And no back seat room issues there! Plus easier to swap out Elantra.

I did look at the Sonata a couple weeks ago, but didn't sit in or test drive one. Yes, there is some pretty hefty lease cash on them (I think), but nothing like the deals I could get on the Malibu with the GM points.

Yes, the first pencil was $125/mo + tax for 24 months, 15K per year sans trade. Manager told me he was selling me the car at invoice, less incentives. Which doesn't make sense, as that would give me a payment of around $25/mo. (Invoice is $24,884 and $9000 of incentives).

More research necessary.

stickguy

Oh yeah. Forgot about the GM points.

Q, going from 10k to 12k is about $10-12 per month. Not a big deal. And if the Malibu lease already includes 15k, even more impressive.

breld

@Michaell - Not sure if it's a good option or not, but during our long commute this morning, my wife noted how nice she thought the Regal next to us looked.

stickguy

It's sad, but at this point, I read that as "we are going to the Buick store at lunch to buy a regal"

breld

stickguy said:

It's sad, but at this point, I read that as "we are going to the Buick store at lunch to buy a regal"

LOL!

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Oh yeah. Forgot about the GM points.

Q, going from 10k to 12k is about $10-12 per month. Not a big deal. And if the Malibu lease already includes 15k, even more impressive.

I thought he needed to go to 20k. Maybe I was thinking of someone else.

stickguy

That's NYC that piles on like that.

Me, I apparently could do 7,500. Just hit 14 months on the Hyundai, and about to turn 8,500 miles. I need to get out more.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

Oh yeah. Forgot about the GM points.

Q, going from 10k to 12k is about $10-12 per month. Not a big deal. And if the Malibu lease already includes 15k, even more impressive.

I thought he needed to go to 20k. Maybe I was thinking of someone else.

bradd does 20K per year. I could probably use 18K, given that I'm at 38K after 26 months in the E-GT.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

Michaell, why are you limiting yourself to the Chevy dealer? Buick is offering yet another fantastic lease deal on the Encore. Is your Hyundai a lease? If so, the Encore deal is $175/mo with $175 due at signing. Granted, that is only 10k miles/yr, so you'd need to bump that up. I'm not sure what difference that makes, but let's say its $50 (can it be that much?). $225/mo with $175 due and minus your $4k points is only $65/mo plus taxes and tags.

edit: you snuck in a post before mine. Check out the Encore. I was impressed with it and my sister loves hers.

I'll take another look at the Encore. MPG is not bad (25/31?) because of the little 1.4T engine.

Gives me an excuse to hit up another dealer. I will admit, the Encore is way better looking than the Trax.

The difference between 10K and 15K is 3% of MSRP - so, on a $25K car, that's $750, or about $31/mo over 24 months ($21/mo if I stretch the lease out to 3 years).

qbrozen

I think someone once told me that 3k/yr amounted to like $15/mo on a 3-yr lease, but no idea if that's accurate or what it translates to on a 2-yr lease.

stickguy

I've never priced 2 year leases. But the difference is entirely tied to the change in residual %. when I shopped for 36 mos it was always in the low teens.

Michaell

breld said:

@Michaell - Not sure if it's a good option or not, but during our long commute this morning, my wife noted how nice she thought the Regal next to us looked.

The Regal has some good lease numbers, but they are a bit out of my price range.

Mr_Shiftright

I am the master of getting in and out of small cars gracefully and cleanly. I can make you a video and show you the moves! It does requiring leading with your butt, which most of you know I am really quite good at.

But seriously, you are a person for whom a car is part of your toolbox, and as such, you may have different considerations than other CCBA-ers. Sounds like the key is this negative equity business.

If I needed a car strictly for work, as a write-off, I'd consider a 'Bu, definitely, or a Fusion.

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

I am the master of getting in and out of small cars gracefully and cleanly. I can make you a video and show you the moves! It does requiring leading with your butt, which most of you know I am really quite good at.

But seriously, you are a person for whom a car is part of your toolbox, and as such, you may have different considerations than other CCBA-ers. Sounds like the key is this negative equity business.

If I needed a car strictly for work, as a write-off, I'd consider a 'Bu, definitely, or a Fusion.

Yes, the trade in will make or break this deal

Mr_Shiftright

How bad is this wheel and door "rash" you spoke of? Is it worth tidying up?

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

How bad is this wheel and door "rash" you spoke of? Is it worth tidying up?

Not severe ... I suppose you could call it normal wear and tear after 26 months and 38,000 miles.

stickguy

Plus of course it smells like pizza.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Plus of course it smells like pizza.

I carry a bottle of Febreeze with me in the car.

breld

As has been said, the trade is the key. If you end up being $3k under, then the GM points incentive simply makes it a wash. If you sincerely like the Malibu (or Encore or whatever), then it's probably worth pursuing. If it's more about using the points, you may be better off carrying out the lease (until November, right?) and not having the negative equity. Then start clean with more options. There's nothing to say GM won't offer those points again, right?

berri

Are the GM points expiring - otherwise what's the rush? I decided long ago to just use a credit card with cash back.

breld

Well, it's that GM is teasing him with $3,000 of "bonus" points to be used in the near future (April, I think?).

jpp75

breld said:

nyccarguy said:

Very exciting things coming from the Detroit auto show.  The ridgeline which makes me want to go out and own a pickup truck.  The 2.7 L Turbo AWD V6 Fusion Sport makes me want to trade in my Legacy.  I love the Pacifica name on the Chrysler minivan & it's looks great. Now if they only offer AWD they could give the Sienna a run for its money.

I too have been recently giving thought to a pickup truck for the first time....ever.

The Colorado sure is getting a lot of attention, and the restyled Tacoma really catches my eye. The Ridgeline would undoubtedly offer a nicer interior and composed ride, with all the functionality that a truck would ever need in my hands. I do think it looks a bit bland, at least in pictures, but that's probably intentional and a smart move on Honda's part. It'll be interesting to see the response the market gives to it.

Funny I also have/had the itch for a pickup. I really like the looks of the Colorado/Canyon twins and am quite intrigued by what I see in the new Ridgeline. Maybe my next punch will be a pickup.

nyccarguy

@berri - he got some bonus GM points deposited into his account that are only good until sometime in Feb.

Michaell

breld said:

As has been said, the trade is the key. If you end up being $3k under, then the GM points incentive simply makes it a wash. If you sincerely like the Malibu (or Encore or whatever), then it's probably worth pursuing. If it's more about using the points, you may be better off carrying out the lease (until November, right?) and not having the negative equity. Then start clean with more options. There's nothing to say GM won't offer those points again, right?

Exactly the case. But, until I have a firm trade offer in hand, it's all speculation.

Last payment on the lease is due 10/7/16, at which point I'll have 30 days to decide what to do.

And yes, the GM points "top off" is an annual thing in January of each year.

Michaell

berri said:

Are the GM points expiring - otherwise what's the rush? I decided long ago to just use a credit card with cash back.

The $3000 in "top off" rewards expire on 2/29/16.

Michaell

I sent an email to the sales folks requesting some additional information. Namely, what the net cap cost is that they used to give me the $125/mo quote.

Based on the best information I have, I calculate about $74/mo + tax for a 24/15 lease. This tells me that there is about $1200 difference somewhere. I've accounted for the up front tax on the incentives and the $499 doc fee already.

We'll see what they say.

If there is $2000 of negative equity, my payment would go up about $83/mo before tax.

nyccarguy

breld said:

@Michaell - Not sure if it's a good option or not, but during our long commute this morning, my wife noted how nice she thought the Regal next to us looked.

Picks my head up off the desk

Regal?  259 hp turbo engine?  AWD?  That could be the cure for my Subaru acceleration blues (pun intended, yes my car is blue.  Couldn't help myself).

I feel like the Regal GS AWD would be a fantastic car to buy as a CPO.  The big problem is that they don't sell well & GM puts these gigantic incentives on them:  20% off or $6,000 rebate.  The dealers punch them as sold right before the rebate expires & pocket the rebate cash.  

So you have used or CPO Regals out there for not that much cheaper than new.    

If if I could find a nice GS AWD...

nyccarguy

Michaell said:

Oh yeah. Forgot about the GM points. Q, going from 10k to 12k is about $10-12 per month. Not a big deal. And if the Malibu lease already includes 15k, even more impressive.

I thought he needed to go to 20k. Maybe I was thinking of someone else.

bradd does 20K per year. I could probably use 18K, given that I'm at 38K after 26 months in the E-GT.

Yup!  That's me!  20K per year!