Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

imidazol97

From back in the days of Muntz (I remember them) which TV had a glowing halo around the picture tube which was to make it easier to watch the picture by lessening the contrast with the case around it?

Memory test?

corvette

bachorb said:

We're thinking along the lines of a Mazda3 hatchback, VW Golf, or a Subaru Impreza Wagon... Right now I am spending $1.5-2k per year on repairs (most recently needed a new water pump and brake rotors).

As roadburner noted, that seems like a lot of money to keep a Yaris running. If you are a risk-taker, you may be able to get a great deal on a TDI VW Golf (or Passat, or any other TDI affected by Dieselgate).

stickguy

you made all the valid points. Frugal is fine, but only up to a point. Then it becomes an obsession!

you got your money's worth, and your needs clearly support getting a better/more reliable/SAFER (play up safety for the dog!)/more practical vehicle for your needs.

some good choices listed too.

xwesx

roadburner said:

Wow; I think I've spent more than that annually once or twice-at most-in ten years and 166k miles of ownership of our 2004 X3 2.5i.

Agreed; that sounds like quite a bit to be spending *every year* on repair work! Maybe total for all repair and maintenance work (or not? Tires and such are a high cost item, though). And, the car isn't all that old or with all that many miles.

I wonder if there are any reliability issues with the car, or are the repairs primarily planned items, or at least plan-able items. When it comes to justifying the purchase of a new car, there are only two things that come into play: 1. I need it; and 2., I want it. If you already have a car, then the "need" part is harder to justify. But, peace of mind counts for A LOT, so if you can't or don't trust your current car, then there ya go. Justified.

But, let's be honest. When most new cars are bought, it is because the buyer wants a new car. So, that's when you merge your points noted above (e.g., ~$2,000 a year is 50% of the way to a $4K/yr loan) with the fact that this is your reward for your frugality and your new job!

As far as keep or trade, I'd say keep the Yaris if you can make use of it. If not, sell it private party, but don't bother trading it in as you won't get much for it (whether it has all of its wheels or not!).

xwesx

Sandy, I'm in the same place with my TV. I have a 31" Sony Trinitron manufactured in 1997. Great TV, and a better picture than any TV manufactured in the ten+ years that followed it. However, the new breed of flat screens are really stunning.

Happily, the old thing still works, and we barely use it, so there is no economic argument to make in which the Sony loses. For now, I'm waiting until we finish the main floor of the house. My reward for completion of that area is that I get to hang a brand new snazzy television, complete with a new audio system (my component stereo is a little older than the Trinitron with 25-year-old Infinty tower speakers), in my brand new room. It will be a glorious day for my fifty-year-old self (I'm not nearly that age yet). Bwahahahah!

berri

Sylvania had really good picture quality and was kind of a cheaper RCA Colortrak. Motorola became Quasar, but that's long gone too. The old Sony Trinitron's had an absolutely ahead of it's time picture, but very few repair shops could work on them. Yes, there was a time when we had TV repairmen!

fintail

One could get a very functional large-ish LED TV for the same price my parents paid for a modern 19" tabletop model (cable ready with digital display, no less) in 1983. We got 12 or 13 years out of that one, I think. Same for the top loader VCR we had around that time. They were all made in USA or Japan then, I think.

If only car prices had evolved similarly, or maybe looking at all the features, some have.

roadburner

I have a Pioneer Kuro in the main home system and a Panasonic in the basement/gaming system. I don't plan to replace either one for some time to come- not until OLED panels significantly drop in price.

berri

If you escalate for inflation, a large screen LED is probably cheaper in todays dollars than an old 25" tube set. Cars not so much because as you mentioned lots more features, plus lots more regulations impacting them. Air fares being much cheaper than years back is a croc even if you account for inflation. ORD - LAX RT could be had for $99 in the mid to late 70's during the prime summer months. Hard to find that today for less than around $400 and that's before checked bag fees, seating fees, meal fees... and you had some legroom to boot!

qbrozen

TVs are most certainly cheaper. Hell, even just before we got married about 16 years ago, we paid $450 for a 27" Proscan, and that was a demo model that I believe listed for around $800-$900. A couple of years after we got married, we went big and got a 53" rear projection Pioneer Elite HDTV. Also a demo model, which listed for $5k! We paid somewhere south of $3k for it. Now you can pay $200-$300 for something around 37"-42" that blows away either of those sets we had.

corvette

berri said:

If you escalate for inflation, a large screen LED is probably cheaper in todays dollars than an old 25" tube set.

I don't remember what my Mitsubishi 57" rear-projection 1080p set cost. I know it was over $1,000 in 2007 or 2008. I "downgraded" to a 55" Insignia Roku TV. It is not 4K HD but it only cost $478. Can't really tell a difference in picture size. No lamp replacement required on the new TV. Lamp replacement ran $50-100/year or so on the old one. I also had to pay $100-200 for a repair on the old Mitsubishi a few years ago.

berri

Some of the stuff I read on 4K recommend holding off. Apparently there are several different broadcast format alternatives right now or something like that? The old VHS v. Betamax thing I guess. However, it sure seemed to me that a Blu-ray I saw on a 4K TV looked awfully darn good.

suydam

Go buy that Mazda 3 right now (or something similar that you like). Life is too short to spend another minute in a Yaris. You've punished yourself long enough.

suydam

And people who can afford flat screens are still watching old TVs? Crazy! Once I saw the Masters Golf tournament on a friend's Hi Def that was it for me. What a difference!
The big problem when you switch is finding somewhere to dump the old one. No one wants them.

corvette

suydam said:

And people who can afford flat screens are still watching old TVs? Crazy! Once I saw the Masters Golf tournament on a friend's Hi Def that was it for me. What a difference! The big problem when you switch is finding somewhere to dump the old one. No one wants them.

Exactly. Goodwill won't take them. There is one place locally that will, I just need to load mine up and drive out there. 

qbrozen

i had the same problem trying to get rid of my last tube TV. I put one to the curb and it disappeared (Sony Wega), but the Proscan just wouldn't go away. Even offered it to a kid that helped me move out of our house. He commented he didn't have one in his room at home. But, apparently, even someone with no TV at all has standards these days that a tube TV doesn't meet.

Finally had to take it to the recycle center. Although the bin said "no TVs," I saw several in there, so I added mine to the pile.

rayainsw

'..my last tube TV. I put one to the curb and it disappeared.. '
When I bought my current TV, I was replacing a big ol' Sony.
When the 2 guys showed up at my house to deliver the new one,
one of them groaned and said:
'I thought we had replaced all those by now!'
- Ray
Happy I did not have to remove it - or dispose of it.....

fintail

The official CPI inflation number from 1983-2015 is 2.38 - kind of laughable. It might work for wages, but not little things like healthcare or education or housing. I would take my 1983 counterpart's salary if I could buy a house around here at 1983 prices. I think cars have inflated less - a new MB range equivalent to a 1983 car is a less than that inflation number, Of course, they are not the same in a few ways. I think that will hold true with more mass market models too - check a well equipped 83 Camcord vs today.

berri said:

If you escalate for inflation, a large screen LED is probably cheaper in todays dollars than an old 25" tube set. Cars not so much because as you mentioned lots more features, plus lots more regulations impacting them. Air fares being much cheaper than years back is a croc even if you account for inflation. ORD - LAX RT could be had for $99 in the mid to late 70's during the prime summer months. Hard to find that today for less than around $400 and that's before checked bag fees, seating fees, meal fees... and you had some legroom to boot!

berri

Home price escalation makes an owner feel wealthy. But really, it only makes it that much harder to move up in houses. The only time you really win is when you move to a lower cost area or die and it sells for your estate inheritance benefactors (although in a few states that can cause estate tax issues). A little inflation can be good for the economy, but larger inflation is usually bad news.

fintail

Those who really cashed in here aren't moving up, they are moving out. If one retires and moves, which I think is a big thing here, it's a windfall. Then of course the owner/lottery winner pretends to be some kind of gifted investor instead of lucky. Where the inflation takes place matters, too. When living costs inflate but wages don't, well...welcome to today.

Mr_Shiftright

Empty nesters who paid off their mortgages long ago can make out well if they sell and then downsize. Some even go the reverse-mortgage route.

xwesx

suydam said:

And people who can afford flat screens are still watching old TVs? Crazy! Once I saw the Masters Golf tournament on a friend's Hi Def that was it for me. What a difference!
The big problem when you switch is finding somewhere to dump the old one. No one wants them.

I agree, it is a little bit crazy. But, it has only been in the last few years that the flat screens have become better than my Trinitron in terms of picture quality. The "early" ones of five or six years ago were expensive, pixelated crap (IMnsHO). Yet, people were paying more than a thousand dollars a pop for them. Now, the quality is way up (even on the HD ones, not just the 4K-HD) and they are thinner and lighter than ever before.

I bought my Trinitron for $300 (retail of $700 at the time) about sixteen years ago. It was a defect return that had sat in the back of our store for a couple of years; I initiated a project to clean out and reorganize the storage room, and I needed a TV, so I made an offer on this one then took it over to the local repair shop and had it sorted out under warranty. It still works fine, and we use it maybe two-to-four hours per week. It uses 150 watts of electricity per hour. A new television, regular HD (1080P), and probably about 42" (small by today's standards), will run about $500 or so and use 18-20 watts per hour.

So, how does the math work on that to make the purchase pan out for any reason other than just wanting a flat screen? From a savings standpoint, I would need to own that thing for nearly fifty years to realize a net savings, and that is without considering the opportunity cost. No, for now, as long as the Sony continues to function, I am perfectly happy using it and deferring a television purchase. The added benefit is that televisions just keep getting better and better (while the cost keeps coming down).

Michaell

berri said:

Home price escalation makes an owner feel wealthy. But really, it only makes it that much harder to move up in houses. The only time you really win is when you move to a lower cost area or die and it sells for your estate inheritance benefactors (although in a few states that can cause estate tax issues). A little inflation can be good for the economy, but larger inflation is usually bad news.

We got very lucky with our home purchase last year. We sold our 1600sf house for $290K and bought a 2700sf house for $360K.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Empty nesters who paid off their mortgages long ago can make out well if they sell and then downsize. Some even go the reverse-mortgage route.

That's what my folks did. Paid off their mortgage in 1998, and now have a reverse mortgage on it. Zillow and Trulia currently have it valued at about $445K.

suydam

Sigh. Some of us aren't so lucky. It all depends on where you live.

Michaell

suydam said:

Sigh. Some of us aren't so lucky. It all depends on where you live.

Agreed. The hot real estate market here in Colorado worked for us on the sale of our old home; got lucky with the new house as the price had just been reduced before we saw it.

xwesx

What is a reverse mortgage?

Michaell

xwesx said:

What is a reverse mortgage?

A reverse mortgage is a loan taken out against a primary residence that isn't due until either the house is sold or when both parties who took out the mortgage pass away. The homeowners must be 62 or older to qualify.

My folks did this as a line of credit years ago (mom is now 77, dad is 80). They've used the money for a new car (2003 Hyundai Sonata, now with about 45,000 miles), some home improvement (solar panels, new perimeter fencing, etc.), and other small expenses. Given that the house is worth as much as it is, it's their safety net in the event that long term care for one or the other of them is necessary and isn't covered through other means.

When they die, the house will be sold and the mortgage paid off. The rest goes to an estate to be divided up amongst the heirs.

stever

The "lender" pays you every month and when you die, the lender gets your house.

We tried to buy a house here but the seller had a reverse mortgage. He wanted to cash out and move to Phoenix to be close to his kids, but the early "cash out" fees made it impossible for him to net enough money to buy a small condo. So he's stuck.

tjc78

corvette said:

berri said:

If you escalate for inflation, a large screen LED is probably cheaper in todays dollars than an old 25" tube set.

I don't remember what my Mitsubishi 57" rear-projection 1080p set cost. I know it was over $1,000 in 2007 or 2008. I "downgraded" to a 55" Insignia Roku TV. It is not 4K HD but it only cost $478. Can't really tell a difference in picture size. No lamp replacement required on the new TV. Lamp replacement ran $50-100/year or so on the old one. I also had to pay $100-200 for a repair on the old Mitsubishi a few years ago.

You replaced the bulb every year? My 50" Sony LCD Projection (similar to DLP) at 9 years old is still on the original bulb. (well at least for the next few days, as I'm sure I just jinxed myself)

ab348

tjc78 said:

You replaced the bulb every year? My 50" Sony LCD Projection (similar to DLP) at 9 years old is still on the original bulb. (well at least for the next few days, as I'm sure I just jinxed myself)

In 2005 I made the mistake of buying a Sony LCD projection HDTV, 42", nearly $1500 Cdn. Worked OK for a year or so, but then started having issues. If you watched a HD program that filled the entire screen you could see "burn-in" bars on either side where standard-def shows would have black filler bars. They blamed it on a combination of cooking fumes and my then-GFs cigarette smoke in the house, saying nothing could be done. The bulb dimmed as you used it up so I ended up replacing it, about $75. But then another design flaw showed its ugly head and you began to see rainbows of color in certain spots around the screen. Turned out the heat from the bulb distorted the "optical engine", whatever that was. Sony would fix it out of warranty if you complained loud enough but never stepped up on mine. I think there was even a class action lawsuit. I unloaded it for $200 and bought a Panasonic plasma for the same original price in 2008 which has been fabulous. But plasmas are obsolete now too.

breld

Hey @roadburner (and others) -

Let's just say, if I were to be looking at 1st gen X3's, is there anything in particular to be on the lookout for as far as maintenance concerns? Would there be one engine preferred over another? Any particular years better than others?

stickguy

If? Dang man, what now? What's left to trade in?

xwesx

stickguy said:

If? Dang man, what now? What's left to trade in?

IIRC, he has four kids of one variety or another....

Michaell

xwesx said:

stickguy said:

If? Dang man, what now? What's left to trade in?

IIRC, he has four kids of one variety or another....

If I were to guess, it would be the 3-series 'vert.

breld

stickguy said:

If? Dang man, what now? What's left to trade in?

Just a thought as a different vehicle for the daughter (A3).

The 330ci ZHP is actually listed out on craigslist and the ZHP forum. Proceeds of which would likely pay down the hefty loan on the S4. I mean, kinda hard to justify a "fun" car when the manual S4 is my main car. A truck on the other hand...

xwesx

breld said:

Just a thought as a different vehicle for the daughter (A3).

The 330ci ZHP is actually listed out on craigslist and the ZHP forum. Proceeds of which would likely pay down the hefty loan on the S4. I mean, kinda hard to justify a "fun" car when the manual S4 is my main car. A truck on the other hand...

The machinations of your mind are truly a wonder of this world.

stickguy

basically what my life would be like if I had matched 5 white balls in the Powerball.

andres3

xwesx said:

suydam said:

And people who can afford flat screens are still watching old TVs? Crazy! Once I saw the Masters Golf tournament on a friend's Hi Def that was it for me. What a difference!
The big problem when you switch is finding somewhere to dump the old one. No one wants them.

I agree, it is a little bit crazy. But, it has only been in the last few years that the flat screens have become better than my Trinitron in terms of picture quality. The "early" ones of five or six years ago were expensive, pixelated crap (IMnsHO). Yet, people were paying more than a thousand dollars a pop for them. Now, the quality is way up (even on the HD ones, not just the 4K-HD) and they are thinner and lighter than ever before.

I bought my Trinitron for $300 (retail of $700 at the time) about sixteen years ago. It was a defect return that had sat in the back of our store for a couple of years; I initiated a project to clean out and reorganize the storage room, and I needed a TV, so I made an offer on this one then took it over to the local repair shop and had it sorted out under warranty. It still works fine, and we use it maybe two-to-four hours per week. It uses 150 watts of electricity per hour. A new television, regular HD (1080P), and probably about 42" (small by today's standards), will run about $500 or so and use 18-20 watts per hour.

So, how does the math work on that to make the purchase pan out for any reason other than just wanting a flat screen? From a savings standpoint, I would need to own that thing for nearly fifty years to realize a net savings, and that is without considering the opportunity cost. No, for now, as long as the Sony continues to function, I am perfectly happy using it and deferring a television purchase. The added benefit is that televisions just keep getting better and better (while the cost keeps coming down).

Cheap TV's have improved a lot over the last few years, but good high quality TV's have always been very good (and much pricier than the cheapo boxes like Vizio and the like.

andres3

ab348 said:

tjc78 said:

You replaced the bulb every year? My 50" Sony LCD Projection (similar to DLP) at 9 years old is still on the original bulb. (well at least for the next few days, as I'm sure I just jinxed myself)

In 2005 I made the mistake of buying a Sony LCD projection HDTV, 42", nearly $1500 Cdn. Worked OK for a year or so, but then started having issues. If you watched a HD program that filled the entire screen you could see "burn-in" bars on either side where standard-def shows would have black filler bars. They blamed it on a combination of cooking fumes and my then-GFs cigarette smoke in the house, saying nothing could be done. The bulb dimmed as you used it up so I ended up replacing it, about $75. But then another design flaw showed its ugly head and you began to see rainbows of color in certain spots around the screen. Turned out the heat from the bulb distorted the "optical engine", whatever that was. Sony would fix it out of warranty if you complained loud enough but never stepped up on mine. I think there was even a class action lawsuit. I unloaded it for $200 and bought a Panasonic plasma for the same original price in 2008 which has been fabulous. But plasmas are obsolete now too.

Plasmas are not obsolete, they have the very best picture money can buy. However, the eco-nanny state says they use too much electricity, and the market says they prefer cheapo TV's that have poorer picture quality and break down much more often to the best in quality available out there.

My Plasma is a recent model Samsung 60" (their high 8500 line; yes, they made cheapo plasmas too). They don't make them anymore, I got one of the last ones. It is probably barely out of warranty though.

nyccarguy

@breld - we had a 2007 X3 which was the 1st year of the facelift & engine lift.  The N52 3.0L Inline 6 pumped out 255 hp (from the E90 330i) and was routed to all 4 wheels via BMW's X-Drive and a 6 speed automatic transmission.  We loved ours, but don't have any LT data for you as we turned it back in after the lease was up with just 46K miles.  2007 Transmission fluid was considered "lifetime fill," which made problems once they hit the 100K mark (maybe 120K).  Read through forums and you'll also notice motor mounts that wore out prematurely.  Now I'll turn the mike over to our experts: 

corvette

tjc78 said:

You replaced the bulb every year?

Not intentionally... Replaced one with a generic $50 one from Amazon, which lasted a few months before it started flickering. I bought name brand bulbs from then on, and I think the last one came directly from Mitsubishi and was over $100. So, the average cost per year for bulbs was probably $50+, although I didn't have to replace it every year.

Sandman6472

Paying $.99/month for the converter box on the tubed 27" right now to the cable folks on top of the bill. Basically a $12/year charge to keep the smaller set which isn't to bad. Having the o k to go purchase one is great but since the desire isn't there, gonna wait but do plan to check out Best Buy and HH Gregg to see if they have any unbelievable deals or floor models. If I did find something to good to pass up, think I'd just do it and not look back. Both girls got the B B Insignia brand 32" flat screens and for what it is and the price they paid, isn't bad at all. I prefer Samsung to be honest and a 50" or 55" is what I eventually will get as I think for the family room, it's the perfect size. Will start the search tomorrow and see where it leads me!

The Sandman

berri

I like the picture on Samsung and Sony. LG seems to betting right up there now though too. As for the 27" tube picture still looking good - cataracts? Just kidding!

Sandman6472

Had the cataract surgery in my left eye back in October 2013 so we're covered. But seriously, our 27" pic with the small converter box has a nice picture, not LED quality of course, but nice. Big reason as I'm still looking at it, like right now! Would feel a whole lot better if it went first just like the old t v in the family room. Wife and one kid were out of town and t v died. Took the other two shopping and Best Buy ad the Samsung we liked and that was that. Wife hoed that it was kind of funny that once she went away, the old one died and all, wink, wink! But am agonizing over this just like I did back in 2013 with the cut...when I bought the Golf last year, no agonizing at all as I knew it was the right thing to do at that moment.

The Sandman

Sandman6472

Nothing special to drive at work today, nothing stands out really as it rained, again, all day. Do remember driving on the way home and how nice the Golf felt accelerating up I-75...I smiled. Proof positive that I did make the right decision which is nice to know...13 months in and I'm still smiling as I drive it anywhere. Saw another I28 coupe today, again in white...must be a sign from G-d or something!

The Sandman

roadburner

breld said:

Hey @roadburner (and others) -

Let's just say, if I were to be looking at 1st gen X3's, is there anything in particular to be on the lookout for as far as maintenance concerns? Would there be one engine preferred over another? Any particular years better than others?

The early X3s (2.5 and 3.0) weren't powerhouses by any stretch of the imagination; I had a 3.0 for a loaner and it felt no quicker than my 2.5i- my service advisor agreed that they felt almost identical with respect to performance. The later 3.0si models felt and WERE quicker. Early cars were criticized for overly stiff suspensions, and later production cars were softened up a bit. I don't know when the softer calibrations were introduced; our non sport was built in March 2004 and it rides fine.

Problem areas-
Engine: You know the M54 litany- coils, vc gaskets,VANOS, cooling system, vapor separator, DISA, etc., all can be issues, but usually only past 130k miles. As Bradd noted, the 3.0sis have the newer 3.0 motor; not my area of expertise.

Drivetrain: I drain and fill the 5 speed GM automatic every 60k miles and it is fine at 183k miles. Some 3.0si owners have complained about the shift quality of the 6 speed automatic, but I think software revisions fixed at least some of the issues. Not so robust was the transfer case and front driveshaft, which required replacement at 136k miles. Rebuilt transfer cases and driveshafts were not available when mine died; they are available now- and for less than 50% of what BMW charges. Both diffs are quiet and CV joints are still original. Brakes last 50k-75k miles; sometimes you can get by with just a pad change on the rear.

Suspension: I've heard of broken rear springs but our X3's suspension has been bulletproof; everything is original.

Interior: The panoramic sunroof can have issues, and if the cassette goes belly-up you may be able to rebuild it- it is NLA from BMW. We NEVER touch ours.

The interior has worn well- no squeaks or rattles; the door seals are looking a little rough; I'll probably replace the front ones this spring.

As I've said before, we love ours.

corvette

sandman_6472 said:

Both girls got the B B Insignia brand 32" flat screens and for what it is and the price they paid, isn't bad at all.

The Insignia Roku TV is what enticed me to upgrade from the 57" DLP to the current 55" LCD. I'm pleased so far. As others have noted, power consumption on the newer TVs is lower, but I don't use mine that much, so that's not a primary concern (kind of like how I have a short commute and getting 10 MPG in a full size truck also isn't a huge concern).

breld

@nyccarguy and @roadburner - thank you for the great insight on the X3. Very helpful!

I forgot how much criticism the early models got for the harsh ride. Wife and I probably wouldn't mind based on what we have driven, but a later model may be a better choice for the daughter.

Since @roadburner mentioned his returning to his fleet, I've been taking notice of them around town. There seems to be a lot of the 1st gen X3s around, which speaks well for their longevity (just like I seem to notice a lot of E46s and E39s still I suppose).

For around the same price, you can get a much newer model Tiguan, which I would consider, but I'm starting to think an older X3 would be a better way to go.

breld

xwesx said:

breld said:

Just a thought as a different vehicle for the daughter (A3).

The 330ci ZHP is actually listed out on craigslist and the ZHP forum. Proceeds of which would likely pay down the hefty loan on the S4. I mean, kinda hard to justify a "fun" car when the manual S4 is my main car. A truck on the other hand...

The machinations of your mind are truly a wonder of this world.

Yes, it never stops it seems. Like I've said before, I do hope it provides more entertainment than annoyance on this forum!

stickguy

what's the matter with the A3? Seems like a perfect car for a teenage girl, much more so than an X3.