Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

ab348

fintail said:

Not a chronic buyer, but impulsive maybe. My friend with the CT6 PHEV, bought as a CPO car in the summer of 21, dumped it today.

They stopped producing that version after the 2018 model year and I can well imagine they were scarce on the ground even when new. The one thing I recall is that for some reason GM put the battery in the trunk, leaving about as much space there as in a mid-engine roadster. Oddball.

Regardless, I cannot imagine an Elantra as something that would satisfy a former Lincoln and Cadillac driver.

greg1288

Looks like our old 2018 Lacrosse which we sold to Carmax was sold for $23K so they made a $3-$4K profit. It was on the website about 5 days. That seems like a short time. I researched the average days to turn a used car on a dealer lot is over 30 days. That would put the percentage of MSRP retained value over 6 years was 56% and around 60% considering the purchase price in 2018 which was probably a few thousand below the sticker for the premium model of $41K

That seems pretty good but I found a 2018 Accord EX-L on Carmax with similar mileage for $26,000. A bit of research shows the original MSRP was around $33K so after 6 years the retained value is around 79%. Only 20% depreciation over 6 years is astounding. Of course I would take the Buick for $3K less any day.

nyccarguy

@greg1288 said:
Looks like our old 2018 Lacrosse which we sold to Carmax was sold for $23K so they made a $3-$4K profit. It was on the website about 5 days. That seems like a short time. I researched the average days to turn a used car on a dealer lot is over 30 days. That would put the percentage of MSRP retained value over 6 years was 56% and around 60% considering the purchase price in 2018 which was probably a few thousand below the sticker for the premium model of $41K

That seems pretty good but I found a 2018 Accord EX-L on Carmax with similar mileage for $26,000. A bit of research shows the original MSRP was around $33K so after 6 years the retained value is around 79%. Only 20% depreciation over 6 years is astounding. Of course I would take the Buick for $3K less any day.

They made more than $3-$4K in profit. Don’t forget the carmax warranty & I’m sure they jacked up the financing rate too.

mjfloyd1

Wow someones’s Q7 is already reserved😎

breld

As most anticipated, it didn’t take long to fill the hole in our garage with the Tesla turn-in.

Feel free to skip to the next post with results and pics.

Or read on as I vent of the sad state of some car dealers who apparently hate shoppers who are knowledgeable.

We keyed in on the Ioniq 5 as the replacement and set out shopping yesterday morning. So, I prepare by calculating the target lease payments…nothing crazy…just using the discounts advertised on dealer websites and then applying current lease terms as advised by @kyfdx and @michaell. Super straightforward.

First Hyundai dealership we visited was a miserable experience. They seemed to have some hangover from the systems issues so just the process of getting a lease quote dragged on. Before even providing the quote, the salesperson was pushing their tint and clear bra package to which I made my usual reply of “we have a guy.” When he asked if he could explain how their offering was much better than what “my guy” provides, I couldn’t help but ask how he knows what “my guy” provides to which he continued to ramble on. Finally, I just looked at my wife and asked if she wanted to leave. He pouted and stopped. Finally came back with the verbal lease quote which was about $50 higher than I expected based on my calcs. I replied, “hmm…that’s higher than we expected,” to which the salesperson simply shrugged. So, a little dumbfounded at the lack of response, we just walked out. General sales manager was walking out to the lot for a different reason but stopped to talk to us and I just told him the quote was higher than my calcs. He offered to share with me the numbers and that “he’d be happy to show me where my numbers are wrong.” Clearly I should have just left. But he did sit down and showed me all the numbers…1) they were using the wrong tax rate, which is fairly significant since you’re taxed on the rebates and 2) they were using the max mark-up on the money factor. When I pointed that out as the primary difference from my expectations, he was offended and pulled the “I’m a businessman and have to make money.” I thanked him for being transparent and we left.

Second Hyundai dealer was nicer, but the end result was they were in the exact same place as the first one. We then talked to their Genesis folks about an Electrified GV70, only to find that they aren’t discounting, have the max mark-up on rate, and force $1,200 of options (tint, clear bra, etc.).

I’m getting too old for this.

So, we decided to go back to the other Genesis dealership we visited last week. They are the first in Colorado to have their own facility, and a nice new one at that. Experience with the salesperson and manager was excellent. They actually seemed to want to move inventory.

The manager came back with a quote on a GV60 that matched my calcs, as long as it was on the lot.

Mind you, the actual lease cost of this Genesis version of the Ioniq 5 is still quite a bit higher than the Hyundai, but we were happy to pay the premium for the nicer interior of the car, but also for the overall experience.

breld

So the result…2024 Genesis GV60 Advanced. Black over black.

breld

Quick punchline…2 days after Tesla took the Model Y back, the title complete notice arrived in the mail.

My takeaway is that Tesla’s organization exists in very distinct silos which do not communicate well.

tjc78

Nice ride @breld ! Enjoy it.

nyccarguy

@breld

Congrats on the Genesis! I really hope you’ll be happy with the GV60. It looks fantastic in Black. I can’t remember, but is this your second Hyundai product? I know you had a Veloster N a few years back.

My best friend’s wife has a G70 that they love (their 1st Genesis) and his parents (after decades of MB ownership) have a G90 and GV80 which they love.

nyccarguy

After a week of perfect weather in The Outer Banks, NC we returned home last night. Space constraints aside, the Highlander performed well. Straight highway runs with 5 people, luggage, and a roof rack returned a calculated 25.61 MPG. Plenty of passing power.

I noticed on the way down that the brakes started to shudder when I 1st pressed the pedal at highway speeds. Will bring it in next week, but I think it’s going to need new front pads & rotors. The rotors have already been “cut & resurfaced” under warranty. I remember bringing it in just before the warranty was up (36,000 miles). I personally wouldn’t pay to have rotors resurfaced and cut, but it was on Toyota’s dime. It did buy me an extra 17,000 miles. Now the question is; do I go with OEM Toyota Pads and Rotors or one of these high quality aftermarket brands that offer a lifetime replacement warranty (whatever that means as far as brakes go).

53,000 miles and counting.

fintail

ab348 said:

fintail said:

Not a chronic buyer, but impulsive maybe. My friend with the CT6 PHEV, bought as a CPO car in the summer of 21, dumped it today.

They stopped producing that version after the 2018 model year and I can well imagine they were scarce on the ground even when new. The one thing I recall is that for some reason GM put the battery in the trunk, leaving about as much space there as in a mid-engine roadster. Oddball.

Regardless, I cannot imagine an Elantra as something that would satisfy a former Lincoln and Cadillac driver.

Also made in China, which is a curiosity and something very GM of the period. I warned him he might feel refinement gaps, but he seemed fine with it on the drive home, was raving about the mileage.

I think the Elantra is his secondmost cheapest new car - he had a Prius C back around 2012 that he ended up loathing (tried to lemon law it, would park it under trees hoping they'd fall on it) ditched it and broke the lease to get his first MKZ. His ex got the second (green on green) MKZ, something I badgered him about, but he can be that pushover one sees now and then. He also had an 18 or 19 Fusion that he picked up as a bargain commuter in an olden days blowout sale, I think he ended up cutting it loose before he picked up the CT6, when he was able to eke out a profit or at least break even. He's easily distracted by flashy tech, so maybe the Elantra will be ok, but he also likes low end grunt/acceleration, not sure how it fares there.

28firefighter

Congrats, @breld! The dealer experience recently has been killing me. I’ve helped a lot of people recently and it’s not even the Hyundai and Kia dealers like this. I’ve encountered it across the spectrum from them to Mercedes. And we are not talking crazy lease hackr deals either.

corvette

fintail said:

...(tried to lemon law it, would park it under trees hoping they'd fall on it)...

Similar experience with my (lemon) Pontiac G6. It did actually get bought back under the lemon law, but as a backup plan, I was also researching road trip destinations that were likely to experience flooding.

corvette

@breld - love the Genesis! The Ioniq would have been a solid choice and seems to be very well liked in the reviews I've read, but the dealers playing games would have left a bad taste in my mouth, as well.

jmonroe1

greg1288 said:

Looks like our old 2018 Lacrosse which we sold to Carmax was sold for $23K so they made a $3-$4K profit. It was on the website about 5 days. That seems like a short time. I researched the average days to turn a used car on a dealer lot is over 30 days. That would put the percentage of MSRP retained value over 6 years was 56% and around 60% considering the purchase price in 2018 which was probably a few thousand below the sticker for the premium model of $41K

That seems pretty good but I found a 2018 Accord EX-L on Carmax with similar mileage for $26,000. A bit of research shows the original MSRP was around $33K so after 6 years the retained value is around 79%. Only 20% depreciation over 6 years is astounding. Of course I would take the Buick for $3K less any day.

————————————————
How distant of a cousin are you to @imidazol97?

jmonroe

nyccarguy

@breld

“I’m a businessman and have to make money.”

The more things change, the more they stay the same. He’s trying to make you feel bad for him trying to sell you a vehicle from his multi-million dollar showroom wearing a not cheap watch while his owner’s condo in Aspen is undergoing a gut renovation. I love your response BTW.

So instead of selling you a car on a skinny deal, he’d rather get $0 and pay floor plan interest on a not so cheap MSRP Ionic. Makes zero sense (and zero cents). If he really was being honest and transparent, he should have said: our business model is predicated on leasing these particular cars (or all of our cars) with a marked up money factor. I see you’ve done your research. If you are willing to take the car today, I’ll sell you the car with a non marked up money factor or I’ll give you an additional discount to make up for the marked up money factor so the deal is net, net the same as your target price.

stickguy

Maybe I don’t want to go out shopping to replace the Acura after all.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

@breld

“I’m a businessman and have to make money.”

The more things change, the more they stay the same. He’s trying to make you feel bad for him trying to sell you a vehicle from his multi-million dollar showroom wearing a not cheap watch while his owner’s condo in Aspen is undergoing a gut renovation. I love your response BTW.

So instead of selling you a car on a skinny deal, he’d rather get $0 and pay floor plan interest on a not so cheap MSRP Ionic. Makes zero sense (and zero cents). If he really was being honest and transparent, he should have said: our business model is predicated on leasing these particular cars (or all of our cars) with a marked up money factor. I see you’ve done your research. If you are willing to take the car today, I’ll sell you the car with a non marked up money factor or I’ll give you an additional discount to make up for the marked up money factor so the deal is net, net the same as your target price.

We actually texted about that yesterday. I asked what discount from MSRP he was getting, and if he was willing to forgo that in lieu of the base money factor, would that be a better deal. He said no.

mjfloyd1

@breld - what is Genesis’ early lease turn in protocol?😎

nyccarguy

@Michaell said:
We actually texted about that yesterday. I asked what discount from MSRP he was getting, and if he was willing to forgo that in lieu of the base money factor, would that be a better deal. He said no.

Then he makes ZERO on the car and will have to explain to the owner the excessive amount of floor plan interest he has to pay this month!

jmonroe1

nyccarguy said:

@Michaell said:

We actually texted about that yesterday. I asked what discount from MSRP he was getting, and if he was willing to forgo that in lieu of the base money factor, would that be a better deal. He said no.

Then he makes ZERO on the car and will have to explain to the owner the excessive amount of floor plan interest he has to pay this month!

————————————————
Given that this is very early in the month I’m sure the dealership feels they have plenty of time before they have to worry about floor plan money. More than likely a better deal could be made towards the end of the month. Right now, however, they’re in “clubbing the baby seal mode”.

jmonroe

breld

nyccarguy said:

@breld

Congrats on the Genesis! I really hope you’ll be happy with the GV60. It looks fantastic in Black. I can’t remember, but is this your second Hyundai product? I know you had a Veloster N a few years back.

My best friend’s wife has a G70 that they love (their 1st Genesis) and his parents (after decades of MB ownership) have a G90 and GV80 which they love.

As far as Hyundai/Kia/Genesis, we did have a Veloster years back for my daughter. Not an N though. . And we bought a Kia K5 for my son last year. We’ve flirted with Genesis models for a while now, but this is the first time we pulled the trigger. Probably not the last. The refreshed GV80 in the showroom was sharp, as was a G80 3.5T Sport.

A year left on the Q8 lease, and I may continue to have that Kia EV9 on my list. Or maybe an Ioniq 5 N once the initial craziness subsides, which should not be long. Hyundai’s electric platform is really nice.

breld

As for that first dealer and GSM, after @michaell and I exchanged texts and we shopped one other Hyundai dealer, I realized that initial deal wasn’t bad. The dealer discount was worth more than the increase in money factor.

But as @nyccarguy mentioned, if that manager would have said something like, “most customers aren’t as knowledgeable about the leases and want to see a discount, so we provide an upfront discount but have to make up for that with an increase in the money factor. I think you’ll see we’re competitive with the other dealerships,” as opposed to coming off all offended, we may have gotten that deal done.

fintail

corvette said:

fintail said:

...(tried to lemon law it, would park it under trees hoping they'd fall on it)...

Similar experience with my (lemon) Pontiac G6. It did actually get bought back under the lemon law, but as a backup plan, I was also researching road trip destinations that were likely to experience flooding.

He always joked about leaving it in a bad area with the keys on the dashboard, but was afraid insurance would nix the idea. IIRC the car had constant issues with the ICE screen, replaced at least a few times, and maybe issues with the gauges too. Maybe it had a wiring harness issue or something. I recall it had the slowest laggiest ICE screen I've experienced. It seemed OK for a city/suburban car, but not fun on the road. He drove it from Atlanta to Seattle, something he claimed gave him backaches.

Both the MKZs were virtually flawless, and I still snark at him for not keeping the green one.

suydam

Congrats on the new ride! It looks very sharp!
We had a similar experience with Hyundai dealers. They are still marking things up past where they should be. We had one Kia dealer that was the same. After we leased the Kia from a different dealer, I got a call from the first one — still interested in the Sportage? I told him we found a better price somewhere else.
GM, on the other hand, was pretty straightforward. They were initially pricing the Blazer EVs too high, but after a month or so of not selling them, they lowered the price quite a bit and gave us more in trade in for the Volt. The 2024 LTs are also loaded with way more equipment than the 2025s, so a better value. They are local too, and I like to have at least one car I don’t have to drive out of town to get serviced.

pensfan83

@28firefighter said:
Congrats, @breld! The dealer experience recently has been killing me. I’ve helped a lot of people recently and it’s not even the Hyundai and Kia dealers like this. I’ve encountered it across the spectrum from them to Mercedes. And we are not talking crazy lease hackr deals either.

Either margins have tightened considerably or dealers are stubbornly trying to cling to 2021 and early 2022.

nyccarguy

@pensfan83 said:

@28firefighter said:
Congrats, @breld! The dealer experience recently has been killing me. I’ve helped a lot of people recently and it’s not even the Hyundai and Kia dealers like this. I’ve encountered it across the spectrum from them to Mercedes. And we are not talking crazy lease hackr deals either.

Either margins have tightened considerably or dealers are stubbornly trying to cling to 2021 and early 2022.

I think they are desperately trying to hold on to the 2021-2022 market strategy. They are expecting people to just walk in and pay what the dealer wants them to pay. @breld has the right idea. Go in with a target price. He ended up spending more money with the Genesis dealer than he would have with the Hyundai dealer and their marked up MF.

nyccarguy

Owning an older car isn’t for the faint of heart:

roadburner

@breld
Nice! Our local Genesis dealer is part of the Oxmorons dealer group and shares a showroom with their Hyundai dealer. I took a half-hearted look at a G70 in late 2019 and found that the cars all came with the idiotic Pulse brake light flasher (just what I want- a minimum wage flunky hacking into a factory harness with crimped splices). I was already in a bad mood because I had set up a "VIP Test Drive" of a Supra at Oxmorons Toyota next door. I arrived at the agreed upon time only to find my salesperson had gone to dinner and on top of that I was informed I couldn't test drive a Supra without a signed buyers order.
And people wonder why I only patronize 3 BMW, 2 Jeep and 2 Mercedes dealers. At this point in life my moron tolerance level is near zero.

imidazol97

jmonroe1 said:

greg1288 said:

Looks like our old 2018 Lacrosse which we sold to Carmax was sold for $23K so they made a $3-$4K profit. It was on the website about 5 days. That seems like a short time. I researched the average days to turn a used car on a dealer lot is over 30 days. That would put the percentage of MSRP retained value over 6 years was 56% and around 60% considering the purchase price in 2018 which was probably a few thousand below the sticker for the premium model of $41K

That seems pretty good but I found a 2018 Accord EX-L on Carmax with similar mileage for $26,000. A bit of research shows the original MSRP was around $33K so after 6 years the retained value is around 79%. Only 20% depreciation over 6 years is astounding. Of course I would take the Buick for $3K less any day.

————————————————
How distant of a cousin are you to @imidazol97?

jmonroe

How long does it take to shake a stereotype on here? I resemble that remark?

ab348

mjfloyd1 said:

Wow someones’s Q7 is already reserved😎

Poor devil.

imidazol97

roadburner said:

@breld
Nice! Our local Genesis dealer is part of the Oxmorons dealer group and shares a showroom with their Hyundai dealer. I took a half-hearted look at a G70 in late 2019 and found that the cars all came with the idiotic Pulse brake light flasher (just what I want- a minimum wage flunky hacking into a factory harness with crimped splices). I was already in a bad mood because I had set up a "VIP Test Drive" of a Supra at Oxmorons Toyota next door. I arrived at the agreed upon time only to find my salesperson had gone to dinner and on top of that I was informed I couldn't test drive a Supra without a signed buyers order.
And people wonder why I only patronize 3 BMW, 2 Jeep and 2 Mercedes dealers. At this point in life my moron tolerance level is near zero.

Sounds like my experience at Behler Olds in Cincy when I was checking in on trading in a '77 I had bought from them for a 1980 (yeah, I know, foolish). The salesperson who was not the one from whom I bought the 77 Cutlass said I had to sign a purchase order for the UCM to evaluate my '77 trade in. I walked out. He actually called my place of employment a couple days later to ask me to come back. I told him I bought a new 1980 the night b efore. I believe I said something about what did he think I was there do do when I was "bumped" around by him. Bye. I don't think I used the word "bumped." LOL

The original salesman had moved with his father to their Datsun/Nissan dealership on the north side of town. No way I was buying a Datsun at that time.

jmonroe1

imidazol97 said:

jmonroe1 said:

greg1288 said:

Looks like our old 2018 Lacrosse which we sold to Carmax was sold for $23K so they made a $3-$4K profit. It was on the website about 5 days. That seems like a short time. I researched the average days to turn a used car on a dealer lot is over 30 days. That would put the percentage of MSRP retained value over 6 years was 56% and around 60% considering the purchase price in 2018 which was probably a few thousand below the sticker for the premium model of $41K

That seems pretty good but I found a 2018 Accord EX-L on Carmax with similar mileage for $26,000. A bit of research shows the original MSRP was around $33K so after 6 years the retained value is around 79%. Only 20% depreciation over 6 years is astounding. Of course I would take the Buick for $3K less any day.

————————————————
How distant of a cousin are you to @imidazol97?

jmonroe

How long does it take to shake a stereotype on here? I resemble that remark?

————————————————
Touchy, TOUCHY, TOUCHY.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

breld said:

So the result…2024 Genesis GV60 Advanced. Black over black.

Very nice and probably a better car overall compared to the Hyundai.

You mention holdovers from the computer crash but I think dealers are having a holdover from when they were in the pandemic driver’s seat. I’ve noticed a real reluctance to deal these days. Whereas pre-Covid they might moan and groan at low offers, they now dig in their heels like they aren’t operating in a declining economy.

They seem to expect ill informed roll over buyers who will just sign what’s put in front of them.

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

After a week of perfect weather in The Outer Banks, NC we returned home last night. Space constraints aside, the Highlander performed well. Straight highway runs with 5 people, luggage, and a roof rack returned a calculated 25.61 MPG. Plenty of passing power.

I noticed on the way down that the brakes started to shudder when I 1st pressed the pedal at highway speeds. Will bring it in next week, but I think it’s going to need new front pads & rotors. The rotors have already been “cut & resurfaced” under warranty. I remember bringing it in just before the warranty was up (36,000 miles). I personally wouldn’t pay to have rotors resurfaced and cut, but it was on Toyota’s dime. It did buy me an extra 17,000 miles. Now the question is; do I go with OEM Toyota Pads and Rotors or one of these high quality aftermarket brands that offer a lifetime replacement warranty (whatever that means as far as brakes go).

53,000 miles and counting.

If it was me I’d want to find out what was making the rotors warp too.

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

nyccarguy said:

After a week of perfect weather in The Outer Banks, NC we returned home last night. Space constraints aside, the Highlander performed well. Straight highway runs with 5 people, luggage, and a roof rack returned a calculated 25.61 MPG. Plenty of passing power.

I noticed on the way down that the brakes started to shudder when I 1st pressed the pedal at highway speeds. Will bring it in next week, but I think it’s going to need new front pads & rotors. The rotors have already been “cut & resurfaced” under warranty. I remember bringing it in just before the warranty was up (36,000 miles). I personally wouldn’t pay to have rotors resurfaced and cut, but it was on Toyota’s dime. It did buy me an extra 17,000 miles. Now the question is; do I go with OEM Toyota Pads and Rotors or one of these high quality aftermarket brands that offer a lifetime replacement warranty (whatever that means as far as brakes go).

53,000 miles and counting.

If it was me I’d want to find out what was making the rotors warp too.

Reminds me of my 1973 Ford with disc front brakes. Warped rapidly. Terrible engineering. Likely the worst car in terms of content quality that I owned. The 351W engine wore timing chain gears by 60K miles. Low output engine with high gasoline intake. Flexing chassis meant it drove oddly. Went to a 1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Brougham coupe and couldn't believe the difference in car's engineering.

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

Owning an older car isn’t for the faint of heart:

Oh no, that’s not the Prelude is it? Didn’t you just spend a bundle sorting it out?

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

jmonroe1 said:

greg1288 said:

Looks like our old 2018 Lacrosse which we sold to Carmax was sold for $23K so they made a $3-$4K profit. It was on the website about 5 days. That seems like a short time. I researched the average days to turn a used car on a dealer lot is over 30 days. That would put the percentage of MSRP retained value over 6 years was 56% and around 60% considering the purchase price in 2018 which was probably a few thousand below the sticker for the premium model of $41K

That seems pretty good but I found a 2018 Accord EX-L on Carmax with similar mileage for $26,000. A bit of research shows the original MSRP was around $33K so after 6 years the retained value is around 79%. Only 20% depreciation over 6 years is astounding. Of course I would take the Buick for $3K less any day.

————————————————
How distant of a cousin are you to @imidazol97?

jmonroe

How long does it take to shake a stereotype on here? I resemble that remark?

Hey, I wouldn’t mind a nice Buick myself.

corvette

nyccarguy said:

I think they are desperately trying to hold on to the 2021-2022 market strategy.

It seems like quite a few of them are, and I'm sure there are still quite a few customers who go along with it. I wonder how many people are still buried in negative equity because they paid $5 or $10k over MSRP for an Accord.

I've seen a similar phenomenon in commercial real estate since we're looking to relocate our office. You'd think prices would fall because so many more people are fully (or almost fully) remote, but it seems like landlords are trying to increase prices to try to offset the higher vacancy rates. We're considering some sort of desk sharing arrangement, but it'd be nice to occasionally have everyone present (or at least invited) for meetings, team building, or just to have free pizza at lunch.

nyccarguy

@oldfarmer50

Yes that’s my Prelude. Yes. I’ve spent a bundle this year & much more last year sorting it out. The current pattern is fix, drive 1,000 miles, something breaks/leaks…

corvette

@nyccarguy - is that oil?

Michaell

@corvette said:
It seems like quite a few of them are, and I'm sure there are still quite a few customers who go along with it. I wonder how many people are still buried in negative equity because they paid $5 or $10k over MSRP for an Accord.

I've seen a similar phenomenon in commercial real estate since we're looking to relocate our office. You'd think prices would fall because so many more people are fully (or almost fully) remote, but it seems like landlords are trying to increase prices to try to offset the higher vacancy rates. We're considering some sort of desk sharing arrangement, but it's be nice to occasionally have everyone present (or at least invited) for meetings, team building, or just to have free pizza at lunch.

I just saw an article in the NYT where an older office building in midtown Manhattan was sold at a 97.5% discount.

I think commercial real estate mortgages are next up to cause indigestion to the banking sector.

nyccarguy

@corvette said:
@nyccarguy - is that oil?

Yes it is!

jmonroe1

Michaell said:

@corvette said:

It seems like quite a few of them are, and I'm sure there are still quite a few customers who go along with it. I wonder how many people are still buried in negative equity because they paid $5 or $10k over MSRP for an Accord.

I've seen a similar phenomenon in commercial real estate since we're looking to relocate our office. You'd think prices would fall because so many more people are fully (or almost fully) remote, but it seems like landlords are trying to increase prices to try to offset the higher vacancy rates. We're considering some sort of desk sharing arrangement, but it's be nice to occasionally have everyone present (or at least invited) for meetings, team building, or just to have free pizza at lunch.

I just saw an article in the NYT where an older office building in midtown Manhattan was sold at a 97.5% discount.

I think commercial real estate mortgages are next up to cause indigestion to the banking sector.

————————————————
Let’s hope not. I don’t think another bail out is going to sit well with the politicians. At least not until after the election.

jmonroe

stickguy

I think at this point that unless you are just independently wealthy it only makes sense to have an older “fun” car (even a Honda) if you can do the majority of the work yourself. Even with a good Indy shop it’s going to be pricey.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe1 said:

Michaell said:

@corvette said:

It seems like quite a few of them are, and I'm sure there are still quite a few customers who go along with it. I wonder how many people are still buried in negative equity because they paid $5 or $10k over MSRP for an Accord.

I've seen a similar phenomenon in commercial real estate since we're looking to relocate our office. You'd think prices would fall because so many more people are fully (or almost fully) remote, but it seems like landlords are trying to increase prices to try to offset the higher vacancy rates. We're considering some sort of desk sharing arrangement, but it's be nice to occasionally have everyone present (or at least invited) for meetings, team building, or just to have free pizza at lunch.

I just saw an article in the NYT where an older office building in midtown Manhattan was sold at a 97.5% discount.

I think commercial real estate mortgages are next up to cause indigestion to the banking sector.

————————————————
Let’s hope not. I don’t think another bail out is going to sit well with the politicians. At least not until after the election.

jmonroe

Check the new regulations. The next financial crisis will be resolved using a “bail-in” using depositor’s money.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

I think at this point that unless you are just independently wealthy it only makes sense to have an older “fun” car (even a Honda) if you can do the majority of the work yourself. Even with a good Indy shop it’s going to be pricey.

Or you can adopt my hooptie strategy: buy it cheap, do minimum repairs and then leave it on the side of the road when it breaks.😫

qbrozen

@stickguy said:
I think at this point that unless you are just independently wealthy it only makes sense to have an older “fun” car (even a Honda) if you can do the majority of the work yourself. Even with a good Indy shop it’s going to be pricey.

And have more than 1 so you still have something to drive while awaiting parts to fix the other.

au1994

Nice Genesis @breld

I think the sooner Genesis can get to dedicated showrooms the better. Trying to sell a luxury vehicle next to a Elantra just isn’t the best business model for where they want to take the brand.

Probably not possible in every market though.

breld

@au1994 - 100% agree. This is the first dedicated Genesis dealership in Colorado. What’s interesting is this was the old Hyundai building - they tore it down and built a beautiful new facility for Genesis, and moved Hyundai to its own new building in a separate location, near a BMW and Infiniti/Maserati/Alfa/Maclaren dealerships.

No one asked me, but I would have thought putting the Genesis in the new location next to those premium brands (in an affluent area of town) would have been the smarter move.

Our salesperson told us a funny story where this guy came into the new Genesis building with his wife, all guns a blazing, making a big deal about how his wife didn’t get floor mats with her new car. After calming him down, the manager politely asked what car she bought…and it was a Hyundai. Wrong dealership, sir.