Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

stickguy

That mistake looks like a good deal with all the new parts.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, if you load on all the goodies Benz offers as options, a C class can break $60K.

The Germans are just.....masters...at the arm-long options list.

My friend wants ALL the goodies---all the driver assist options, the air ride, the NAV and sound systems, the convenience features, the leather, the wood, the electric sun shades, the heads-up display, the V-6 turbo of course. So that's the price of admission---$60K.

I priced out an E class with all its goodies and it hit about $72K. These are, for me, heart-stopping numbers. And here I thought I was going hog wild when I priced out a new MINI at $32K. I'm obviously swinging in the minor leagues here.

Another friend and I are going to test drive a Tesla next week. I've never driven one, so I'll let you all know what I think. I rather doubt he'll switch out of his Lexus for a Tesla, as the Lexus has been flawless these last 60,000 miles for him (other than the tree falling on it). He is a graduate of the BMW 7 Series School of Horrors, so I'm not seeing another luxury class BMW in his future. He wasn't merely burned, he was reduced to a charred piece of toast on that one.

He's not a Benz kinda guy (feels they are too ostentatious). He bought wivey a 3 series BMW some years ago, so maybe a 5 series would tempt him.

I mentioned Cadillac but he scoffed so we aren't going there.

@fintail said:

Edit: New C is on MBUSA now, I built one to my spec (loaded) 62K. Yikes. I can get a nice E for that

fintail

Shoot past it, more like. One can spec a very comfortably equipped E for around 65K (which allows well over 10K for options), mine stickered at about 63K on the nose, and is fairly loaded, especially for a Bluetec. But again, these things seem more to lease than to own - especially if one is a repeat customer and purchases at blowout time, the cost of ownership to lease might not be more than buying, unless one holds for long periods.

I stopped by my local dealer, a new C300 just arrived. Moderately equipped, 50K. Mind you, this is a 4cyl car built in Alabama (I checked the sticker and VIN, yup, a US built MB sedan), so that will be different to many people. I think if I was going for a new C, I'd just go all the way and get a C400 - comes with tons more equipment standard, and the engine looks pretty terrific. The numbers don't scare me too much, that's how things go. An E so equipped would have been 50K 20 years ago - 30% more today isn't a big deal. I wish housing (or school costs, or food, or fuel, etc etc etc) was only 30% more.

I talked to the salesman who I originally dealt with - he's a car guy and a MB enthusiast, has owned about 20 of them back to the W116 and also has an early 70s 911S that he's had for eons. He agreed that with a C and E costing the same, he too would choose the E.

Speaking of car buyers, today I went to check out a W210 E55 I saw on Craigslist, sitting at an independent used car lot. To those who don't know, I had one of those for many years,and it was a pretty good car. This one has VERY rare options - parktronic, wood wheel, cooled seats (mine had the latter). It's an 01 with about 95K on it, local car since new, no papers, but it had definitely been garaged, and looked pretty nice. I could probably pick it up for 10K. If I wanted a guzzler that'll hiccup now and then, but be fun to drive and easier to own than later AMGs, I'd hunt down this car. It's probably the best W210 E55 for sale in this part of the country, and is a lot of car for the money.

@Mr_Shiftright said:
Yep, if you load on all the goodies Benz offers as options, a C class can break $60K.

oldfarmer50

@henryn said:
I finally replaced the Passat. Found a 2005 Tahoe, LT with leather, 111k, clean carfax, for $6,250.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321490114206?_trksid=p2060778.m1431.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&autorefresh=true

It says no longer available. Did you actually buy it?

oldfarmer50

@henryn said:
I finally replaced the Passat. Found a 2005 Tahoe, LT with leather, 111k, clean carfax, for $6,250.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321490114206?_trksid=p2060778.m1431.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&autorefresh=true

It says no longer available. Did you actually buy it?

Mr_Shiftright

I'm STILL shopping for a compact pickup and maybe a Porsche 996.

I have found it frustrating, but I am learning to save gas by TRANSLATING car ads more accurately.

Here's what I've learned so far:

               WHAT IT SAYS /WHAT IT MEANS                                      

"AC needs recharge" / Needs compressor, dryer, expansion valve

"Needs TLC" / Total Leftside of Chassis

"No heat, $50 part" / No heat $600 labor

"Needs tune up" / True, but after you replace the head gasket

"Clean interior" / Yes, for a dumpster

"Rare color" / Ugly color

"Ready for smog: / Failed last week

"Salvage title due to vandalism" / $14,000 in vandalism?

Carefully maintained / Even has the Jiffy Lube stickers

"Price is firm" / No reasonable offer accepted

nyccarguy

@Mr_Shiftright‌

Are you specifically looking in CA or just on the west coast for the 996? Have you tried looking in the Southeast? Up here in the Northeast, everything is most likely to be a C4 (even if it sits in the garage all winter, just in case the Range Rover is in the shop I guess).

Compact pickups are tough. The way Tacomas hold their value, you'd be better off buying or leasing a new one.

Mr_Shiftright

Finding a 996 isn't that hard here in California. But I want a coupe, and I want certain colors, and I want a manual transmission, and I want reasonable mileage. Once you apply the Shiftright filter, the residue at the bottom of the cup isn't a lot.

The problem is that a 996 isn't a Toyota Camry. Once a 996 hits about 150,000, it's worthless. So if I buy at 110,000 and keep it for 3-4 years, I'm going to have a cinderblock on my hands when it comes time to resell it. So I HAVE to buy it right from the get-go, OR I have to buy 70K-80K miles and pay a higher price.

A silver 966 is as common as a geranium pot around here. I'd like dark blue, and perhaps black. I'd also prefer that it already had the notorious IMS bearing modification, so that I don't have to bite my nails for the next 4 years.

The truck---well that's my fault. I just need a garden hauler, so I've set a budget of $4000, for a moderately clean truck, automatic, extended cab with AC--and there is an enormous amount of pure junk out there in that price range. You would not believe the wheezing, bashed up, primered buckets of bolts I've looked at. Beware cell phone photos!

Anything worth while was sold within hours of posting. In one case, if I had hopped in the car when he pressed the posting button for the ad, in the time it would have taken to drive there, I would have missed the sale.

People are keen to buy cheap compact pickups here.

I'm wising up. I got a fistful of cash now. One guy TURNED DOWN my offer of $2200 on a 1988 Ford Ranger with 140K on it. GEEZ!

stickguy

Shifty, you got the contacts. Why not snag an ultra babied yet worthless 150k unit and save the cash and roll the dice?

oldfarmer50

The truck---well that's my fault. I just need a garden hauler, so I've set a budget of $4000, for a moderately clean truck, automatic, extended cab with AC--and there is an enormous amount of pure junk out there in that price range. You would not believe the wheezing, bashed up, primered buckets of bolts I've looked at. Beware cell phone photos!

Why not step up to a full size pick up, say a F-150 instead of a Ranger? My so's friend recently acquired a '86 F-150 with under 80k miles for a few hundred. A junk hauler doesn't even have to be pretty.

nyccarguy

@fintail‌

A lot of the BMW guys here kinda went through the same sort of sticker shock when the F30 was introduced. A 4 cylinder 328xi equipped like my I6 powered E90 gets you in the $50K price Range. 335s hit $60K very easily. That's a lot of money for a 3 series. Same goes for the C-Class in my mind. Maybe it is "the new normal" that I'm not ready for.

If I'm BMW shopping (which I'm not), I'd be checking out the whole bunch of ex-loaner X1s & 328xds. Brand new, I'd most likely take a look at a diesel powered X3.

fintail

I've seen those 60K+ F30s yeah - I guess MB is playing the same game now, as previously it was hard to get a W204 out of the low 50s. Low 60s buys a decent E, and a similar 5er or A6 or GS etc. Good way to slot in the CLA I guess.

If I was BMW shopping, I'd go after a 328xd Touring. I've also seen lease blowout deals on 535d on local TV.

@nyccarguy said:
fintail‌

A lot of the BMW guys here kinda went through the same sort of sticker shock when the F30 was introduced. A 4 cylinder 328xi equipped like my I6 powered E90 gets you in the $50K price Range. 335s hit $60K very easily. That's a lot of money for a 3 series. Same goes for the C-Class in my mind. Maybe it is "the new normal" that I'm not ready for.

If I'm BMW shopping (which I'm not), I'd be checking out the whole bunch of ex-loaner X1s & 328xds. Brand new, I'd most likely take a look at a diesel powered X3.

nyccarguy

@fintail‌

I don't think the Luxo-German diesels are selling so well here. I've seen 1 535xd, maybe 2 or 3 328xds (that weren't dealer service loaners), & 2 GLK 250 blue tecs.

I definitely see more of the SUVs (not a ton, but definitely more). Cayenne diesels, GL 350 BT, X5 d, and a few Q7 TDIs.

henryn

@henryn
Found a 2005 Tahoe, LT with leather, 111k, clean carfax, for $6,250.

__

@oldfarmer50

It says no longer available. Did you actually buy it?

Yes, I did. Interesting sales story goes with it. I spotted it on Ebay, went down to the dealership for a test drive and then started negotiating. It was a trade-in at a Jaguar / Land Rover dealer (who trades in a 9 year old Tahoe on a Jaguar / Land Rover?) They started at $7k, we negotiated to $6,250, and I went in to do the paperwork.

Total bottom line came out to over $7,700, so I started digging into the numbers. They had a $497 “Dealer Services” charge, in addition to the $179 “documentary fee”. And $259 for “Phantom Footprints”, some kind of anti-theft BS. They agreed to remove the Phantom Footprints, but not the “Dealer Services”. I asked for a pen and a piece of paper, and did my own “closing sheet”, leaving in only the sales price, state sales tax, license, title, and state inspection. I also allowed $100 for “documentary fee” (save me a trip to the court house). My bottom line was $6,884, they refused, I walked.

Before I could get home, they called and offered to take $7,000. But they insisted on a cashier’s check, not a personal check. Petty? Who knows, but my credit union is only minutes away, so I didn’t mind.

Interesting footnote, though. They had me sign two different sales forms. One starts at $6,272 and does not include the Dealer Services nor the phantom footprints. The other one starts at $5,516 and does include all of the junk that was in the original. The math in that second one is bogus, because it includes the exact same amount of sales tax. I just shook my head and signed both.

corvette

Did you sell or trade a Passat? What year was it?

andre1969

@oldfarmer50 said:
Why not step up to a full size pick up, say a F-150 instead of a Ranger? My so's friend recently acquired a '86 F-150 with under 80k miles for a few hundred. A junk hauler doesn't even have to be pretty.

>
Back in 2010, one of my cousins was selling an early 80's F-150 with a 351 engine, for only $800. I don't know what issues it may have had, but it looked rust free, and it moved under its own power. I think it was 4wd, as well, but can't remember for sure. I was kind of tempted, but I didn't need it. My '85 Silverado wasn't nearly as ratty back then as it is today. And I imagine the 351 would be a bit of a guzzler. Not that the 305 in my Silverado is innocent of that charge, itself!

I'd imagine though, that Shifty wants a small truck because of maneuverability, parking issues. Perhaps, not too much room where he lives? I wonder if the price of compact trucks might be inflated these days, because nobody makes them anymore? The last "real" compact truck, IMO, was the Ranger. All the others took a lead from the Dakota and went midsized.

A guy at work bought a used Ranger not too long ago. I forget the details, but I know it was 4wd, which boosted the price. He paid something like $5-6K for it, and it's a rustbucket, from what he described of it. I know at one point he said something about pulling the bed off the frame, and it needs new doors. Sounds like junkyard material, IMO, but I guess I could be out of the market.

Seems to me you might as well just go buy new/newer, and avoid all that hassle. Unless fixing up something like that is cathartic to you.

But yeah, big pickup trucks can be a real bargain. My 2012 Ram Hemi was $20,751 out the door. It's a regular cab, 8-foot bed model, which is probably one reason it was so cheap. Not the most desirable combo these days, but it's what I wanted. It was also end of the model year; I think its MSRP was around $25.8K plus TTL. And just RWD, which again, probably makes it a bit less desirable. But, it's also big, cumbersome, hard to park, high liftover to the bed, etc. So, it's not everybody's thing.

And, of course, older full-sized pickups aren't nearly as cumbersome. My '85 Silverado isn't nearly as hard to park, enter/exit, or load stuff into as my Ram. But they're still a big difference compared to a compact truck.

henryn

@andre1969

>

And, of course, older full-sized pickups aren't nearly as cumbersome. My '85 Silverado isn't nearly as hard to park, enter/exit, or load stuff into as my Ram. But they're still a big difference compared to a compact truck.

I agree, completely. Look for a single cab with the short bed (6.5'). In a Chevy, you can go up to a 2006 model. In a Ford, up to 2003. When / if you find one, it will most likely be a "work truck", without even power windows. But it will be much easier to park and load/unload stuff into the bed (compared to a newer model Ford or Chevy 1/2 ton). And it will be MUCH cheaper than an equivalent year model Tacoma.

qbrozen

Renewed my CL ad and started an eBay classifieds ad for the Benz now that I'm home from vacation. Turns out scammers are now texting. Ugh. Got hit up by 2 of them already.

oldfarmer50

@henryn said:
Interesting footnote, though. They had me sign two different sales forms. One starts at $6,272 and does not include the Dealer Services nor the phantom footprints. The other one starts at $5,516 and does include all of the junk that was in the original. The math in that second one is bogus, because it includes the exact same amount of sales tax. I just shook my head and signed both.

Congrats on your new ride. Sorry for the double post. I guess banging your foot on the computer when it doesn't load fast enough has consequences.:o

Interesting comment on the double sales form. Do you think they were trying to screw the salesperson out of some of the commission by putting all the fees in? I seem to remember that commission is based on the price minus all those bs fees. Over $900 in fees seems insane.

Maybe a sales pro could comment.

Mr_Shiftright

The problem is a Porsche with 160-175K on it is going to remain epoxied to my driveway if I try to sell it. Basically I'd have to offer a price that is, to me, a complete write-off. Not many sellers are that willing to face that ugly thing called "reality".

I always buy with an "exit strategy" in case things go wrong. I'm willing to endure say $2K a year depreciation for having fun, but I'm not going to take a $10,000 bath in one or two year's time.

Did I ever tell you about the time a dealer tried to pass off a doctored CARFAX on me---yep, he photocopied it and snipped out the accident damage somehow.

Nasty, nasty.

@stickguy said:
Shifty, you got the contacts. Why not snag an ultra babied yet worthless 150k unit and save the cash and roll the dice?

oldfarmer50

@qbrozen said:
Renewed my CL ad and started an eBay classifieds ad for the Benz now that I'm home from vacation. Turns out scammers are now texting. Ugh. Got hit up by 2 of them already.

I'd like to hear the particulars of those. I assume the scammers came from CL and not eBay.

Could we get a look at your CL ad too? I might be putting something up there in the future and I've never composed an ad for anything bigger than car wheels.

Mr_Shiftright

"I am much interested in your car. My name it Ritmo. I'm am presently working in Estonia but I can send you a cashier's check immediately to hold the car until my return in about 3 weeks. I trust you completely. Please forward contact info to me."

fintail

I don't think I've ever seen a 535d or A6 diesel on the road, but I have seen a few 328s.

I see numerous X5s and ML/GLs, an occasional Porsche or Audi. The oddball is a Q5 hybrid I see several times a week.

@nyccarguy said:
fintail‌

I don't think the Luxo-German diesels are selling so well here. I've seen 1 535xd, maybe 2 or 3 328xds (that weren't dealer service loaners), & 2 GLK 250 blue tecs.

I definitely see more of the SUVs (not a ton, but definitely more). Cayenne diesels, GL 350 BT, X5 d, and a few Q7 TDIs.

houdini1

@Mr_Shiftright said:
Yep, if you load on all the goodies Benz offers as options, a C class can break $60K.

The C class is all new for 2015, but the E class is just updated. The main change being different engine choices. Not better engine choices IMO, just different. If I was seriously looking at the E class I would be very tempted to grab a loaded up 2014 at a huge discount, or wait on the 2016 which will be all new. Either way, the E class is a great choice.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm leaning towards agreeing with you, and seeing if we can snag a 2014 E class coupe. Yep, the E class has been around since 2010 in this config.

fintail

Biggest change (to me) for 2015 E - the US market finally gets power folding mirrors - something seen elsewhere for ages but verboten here for reasons unknown. There are often deals to be found on this model, as they built a lot of them.

There's still some debate of what model nomenclature will be for 2015+. I'd be surprised to see a W213 before model year 2017 on this continent.

@houdini1 said:
The C class is all new for 2015, but the E class is just updated. The main change being different engine choices. Not better engine choices IMO, just different. If I was seriously looking at the E class I would be very tempted to grab a loaded up 2014 at a huge discount, or wait on the 2016 which will be all new. Either way, the E class is a great choice.

henryn

@oldfarmer50 said:

Interesting comment on the double sales form. Do you think they were trying to screw the salesperson out of some of the commission by putting all the fees in?

In this particular case, definitely not. The salesman himself did everything, I never spoke with anyone else. He did go off to "seek approval" during negotiation, but I only spoke with the one person. And he was the one who presented me with all of the forms to sign.

This seems to be something new, a high end dealership (Jaguar / Land Rover) trying to move their older trade-ins through Ebay instead of just wholesaling them. Apparently the salesman is new at this whole Ebay thing, I had to explain to him several facets of how Ebay works (automatic bidding, how to close the listing early, etc).

Michaell

@ab348 said:
With the current recall, did they replace the 2012 switch or just confirm it is a later version and return what you spent on it? What led to the 2012 repair?

The key got stuck in the ignition. They replaced a defective ignition module with another defective ignition model. The new part number was what was installed last week.

qbrozen

i actually got one through CL and one through Ebay. I can tell because the text includes the title of the ad, which is different on each. The first one came through about 1am last night from the CL ad.

first message asked if I still had it (gee, considering you responded to my ad renewal from 10 mins ago, I think so). After my reply, the next asked how long I've owned it and the telltale question "what's your actual price for it?" All of this, mind you, was with typos and poor English, as expected. Since I was pretty sure at this point it was BS, I merely answered that all the details are in the ad, including the price. Next response was "Good to me i am okay with the condition and the price i will be paying now so kindly get back to me with your paypal email address and full name so i can proceed with the payment." and then "I have arranged for a pickup agent who will be coming to pick it up as soon as the payment is made."

I stopped responding after that.

The message later this morn was simply the title of my Ebay ad, nothing more. I didn't respond, of course.

CL ad

Ebay classified ad

Mr_Shiftright

@hanryn -- you said: "I had to explain to him several facets of how Ebay works (automatic bidding, how to close the listing early, etc)."

I hope you had a chance to also tell him that automobile auctions are non-binding on eBay.

qbrozen

I went back and pulled my phone number from those ads. Also started a real Ebay ad with a fixed price and accepting offers. If nothing good comes of that, I'll move on to an auction format in a couple of week. I'd like to get it out of here before the end of Sept.

oldfarmer50

@qbrozen said:
I went back and pulled my phone number from those ads. Also started a real Ebay ad with a fixed price and accepting offers. If nothing good comes of that, I'll move on to an auction format in a couple of week. I'd like to get it out of here before the end of Sept.

Beautiful car for it's age. Especially the interior. Wish I was a MB guy.

qbrozen

Thanks

oldfarmer50

@qbrozen said:

CL ad

Ebay classified ad

That car is in amazing condition for it's age. Particularly the interior. Price seems dirt cheap. I wish I was a MB guy.

Maybe I can learn.

stickguy

Q, no clue if it hurts my response rate, but I never put my email or phone # in my Cl ads. I just use the CL contact intermediary service. that way I get to ignore the hits that don't feel right, and they have no direct contact info. the ones that seem OK I Email back from a hotmail account, and if that goes OK I will give them my cell #.

might not be the best way to get max # of contacts, but it works for me!

nyccarguy

Apple Help?

Hey guys, this is completely Off Topic, but I need some computer help. If anybody knows Apple iPhoto or could steer me in the right direction, I'd greatly appreciate it. Last night I uploaded my vacation pictures onto iPhoto. I didn't realize that I was "logged on as a guest." When I was finished, I hit the "delete photos from camera button," deleted some shots that were no good, then went to shut my computer down. I got an "all files will be deleted for good message," and clicked OK, thinking that it would just delete "temporary files." Well, I lost all of my vacation pictures and am really upset. Can anybody help me recover the photos from my Mac? Or should I take my camera's XD card for data recovery? Thanks!

suydam

Call the Genius Bar.

oldfarmer50

Are we having glitches with the system?

First I get a double post, which I assumed was my fault. Then my first post to Q doesn't show up so I post another one only to have my first post show up later than the second.

oldfarmer50

@stickguy said:
Q, no clue if it hurts my response rate, but I never put my email or phone # in my Cl ads. I just use the CL contact intermediary service. that way I get to ignore the hits that don't feel right, and they have no direct contact info. the ones that seem OK I Email back from a hotmail account, and if that goes OK I will give them my cell #.

might not be the best way to get max # of contacts, but it works for me!

Just me but I'm suspicious of CL ads that don't include a phone number.

nyccarguy

@suydam‌

at the local apple store?

suydam

Yes.

stever

@nyccarguy, I've recovered lots of deleted photos using Recuva, a freebie for windows programs, and there's lots of others out there. There's likely something similar for iOS that'll let you just stick the card in the computer slot and run the proggie.

Meanwhile, I wouldn't take any more photos using that card or you'll run the risk of overwriting your "deleted" photos.

@oldfarmer50, I've sold tons of stuff on CL (including two cars) and always use the forwarding email provided by Craig.

I rarely respond to CL ads that just have a phone number - I'd rather reply with a throwaway email and get a feel for the seller before giving them my "real" contact info. And if the phone number is something like 8six75threeoh9, forget it.

qbrozen

@oldfarmer50 said:
Just me but I'm suspicious of CL ads that don't include a phone number.

Well, now I understand why people wouldn't include it. Mine was even hidden where you had to click a button to get the number to show, yet that didn't stop the scammers. Lesson learned.

oldfarmer50

@qbrozen said:
Well, now I understand why people wouldn't include it. Mine was even hidden where you had to click a button to get the number to show, yet that didn't stop the scammers. Lesson learned.

But don't the scammers email as well?

I assumed that some people use those mixed number word phone numbers to thwart a CL search so you don't find they are selling multiple cars. I never thought it was an attempt to thwart scammers. Must be why some take photos with a thumb over the license plate.

That's a shame that the crooks actually went to the trouble to click on the "contact" box that hides your number. No matter what you try, some dishonest person will find a way around it.

qbrozen

yes, they email, too, but that's less troublesome than having my phone assaulted.

I never understand covering the license plate. You don't cover it when driving around every day, so why would it now be a big secret just because your car is for sale?

nyccarguy

Looks like my problem isn't as bad as I thought. I didn't "format" the card on the camera, so the pics are still there, just buried. Someone on the apple support board suggested I use a program called MediaRECOVER for MAC. The hard part is now I have to wait until I get home to do this.

On a separate note, Dodge has some nice incentives on the Challenger. $1000 Customer Cash, $1,000 Conquest Cash, & $1,000 HEMI credit. They seem to hold their value too. Invoice minus $3K on an RT with a 6-Speed Stick would be fun:)

tommister2

@qbrozen said:
yes, they email, too, but that's less troublesome than having my phone assaulted.

I never understand covering the license plate. You don't cover it when driving around every day, so why would it now be a big secret just because your car is for sale?

I always wondered about that too. I'm sure there's some info they can get from your license plate number but could they really harm you?

Mr_Shiftright

I always assumed that people who hide their license plates in ads were trying to cover up something THEY did, not that I was going to do to them. For instance, if you have their license plate you can go to DMV and find out if there is a nasty sum of back registration due. They won't tell you who owns the car of course---that'd be a nice way to thwart curbstoners, but I guess a look at the title can do that just as well.

oldfarmer50

@Mr_Shiftright said:
I always assumed that people who hide their license plates in ads were trying to cover up something THEY did, not that I was going to do to them. For instance, if you have their license plate you can go to DMV and find out if there is a nasty sum of back registration due. They won't tell you who owns the car of course---that'd be a nice way to thwart curbstoners, but I guess a look at the title can do that just as well.

How about the curbstoners who put fake plates on their vehicles? There's one from the lower Hudson Valley who puts the same pair of plates on multiple vehicles and puts up folksy ad copy to make it seem that ma & pa are selling their beloved family car. Maybe the plates are to make you think the car can be test driven. He goes to great lengths to make it seem his 20 or so cars have different private owners.

http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/4619268530.html
http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/4610338295.html

This plate also appeared on a Taurus, Focus, Galant and Gran Am.

stever

You can always report 'em.

Stop Curbstoning

That site will probably get the DA's attention faster than you emailing them.