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Comments
ABS is much better on paved roads, and thus I think all new models should have a switch to turn off the ABS. Let the driver choose based on the conditions whether they would want the system functioning or not.
I agree, if someone has the money to buy a $20K Civic, the cost differential between regular and premium gas should be of no, or minimal concern. But if it is, they are buying out of their league. Maybe they should buy something in their price range, like a nice used 2002 Civic Si, or a 1999-2000 Si and not worry about breaking the bank at the pump.
It is like people who buy Suburbans and Expeditions and then complain about the high cost of gasoline. They just dropped $50K on a truck rated at 13 MPG , did they think it was going to run on air? And if they had the money to buy a $50K truck, they have no problem paying $80-$90 at the pump. If they do have hard time paying for the gas, once again, they bit more than they can chew.
This has been your 5 minute course in Automotive Finance 101.
I have been a skier since 1962. Yes, since I also was a ski instructor for quite a while, I know a bit about snowplowing. I've also done lots of driving in snow & ice country over the years.
Even while braking with ABS, you DO plow (or build up) the snow in front of your tires as you are attempting to stop. While the effect is slightly different without ABS, I'd rather have it that way than to spin out or go off the road without it. There is no question that ABS is much safer than braking without it. A driver-selectable switch defeating ABS will cause the vast majority of drivers to get into sideways skids and other difficulties that would otherwise be avoided. Sorry, but you've got it backwards.
Honda was wise to make the safety of ABS standard on Civic EX and Hybrid models, and the rest of its product line. Hopefully they will correct their frugality and make ABS standard across the entire Civic line.
When specifically, August? Sept? Oct?
"All Honda and Acura vehicles, with the exception of a small number of specialty vehicles, will get front side airbags with an Occupant Position Detection System (OPDS), side curtain airbags and anti-lock brakes as standard equipment before the end of calendar year 2006."
The Civic isn't exactly a "specialty vehicle". If the new model doesn't get these features standard from the start (highly unlikely because the president of Honda has said himself that they will be standard across the board), those of you who don't care for ABS had better buy an ABS-less new Civic by the end of 06
It would be nice to be able to turn off ABS under certain circumstances, but that might cause more problems than it solves (like forgetting to turn it back on before driving into a situation where ABS would be useful).
I don't see why ABS could not work the same way.
If I went back through my stacks of car magazines I could probably find the tests that were run with and without snow tires using ABS and shutting it off, on snow and ice. If you measure success by shorter braking distances the ABS-off and the snow tires were the winners.
Anyone know if WRC's (rally series) cars use ABS? Or are they banned?
Offering people a switch to shut it off???? I can't wait for the first lawsuit on behalf of someone who got into a serious accident and claims they had ABS switched "on" when it really wasn't.
I think Honda should be commended for making them standard on all cars. For those of you that don't want them, you should look somewhere else. I think most other car makers will follow in this shortly.
The name of the game is KNOWING how to properly use ABS.
http://www.abs-education.org/driv/drvless5.htm
http://www.abs-education.org/driv/ABS.pdf
http://www.nsc.org/library/facts/abs.htm
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca/capubs/sae1999-01-1287.pdf
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/Equipment/absbrakes.html
http://www.gmfleet.com/us/products/specialized/police/safety/abs.html
http://www.abs-education.org/faqs/faqindex.htm
It's great that the 2006 Civics will have ABS as standard equipment. Clearly, there will be no OFF suicide switch.
http://www.abs-education.org/faqs/faqindex.htm
"In what circumstances might conventional brakes have an advantage over ABS? There are some conditions where stopping distance may be shorter without ABS. For example, in cases where the road is covered with loose gravel or freshly fallen snow, the locked wheels of a non-ABS car build up a wedge of gravel or snow, which can contribute to a shortening of the braking distance.
If I live in the Snow Belt, how can I benefit from ABS? Even in fresh snow conditions, you gain the advantages of better steerability and stability with four-wheel ABS than with a conventional system that could result in locked wheels.
In exchange for an increased stopping distance, the vehicle will remain stable and maintain full steering since the wheels won't be locked. The gain in stability makes a potential increase in stopping distances an acceptable compromise for most drivers. All in all, these benefits outweigh the rare instances where the ABS system increases distances over non-ABS equipped vehicles."
Now to a more relevant question - is the coupe and SI going to look the same ?
From $13k to $23k max.
DrFill
I bet you it will be above any speed limit in the US. Probably double the speed limit. The last Si had a drag induced limit of 138 mph.
-SiK99
If you read from Honda CEO Takeo Fukui's remarks from the website above, note that Honda will introduce a new CVT automatic transmission for the 8th-generation Civic due this all. I wouldn't be surprised that we may just see that transmission as the one of the potential automatic transmission choices (the other possibility being the Antonov AAD derivative, which Honda has the license to produce).
The Civic is a proven product...it has been around for years...I would not hesitate for one minute to buy the new 06.
Buy the 06...get rid of that tin can Mopar!
I realize I am in the minority, but there is no traffic condition that would make me prefer an automatic.
I grew up in NYC. Learned how to drive in NYC on an old 4Runner stick, which was like slow death (no pop). An Auto would've been like waiting for Halley's comet.
I will ALWAYS drive a stick, and will always find an excuse NOT to drive a car with an Auto! I was borne and bred a driver.
Autos are fine for candy-a%$ cars like Tauruses and Impalas, but Civic Si and Auto in an Oxynimrod, no doubt. Like a stick in a Lexus LS.
But the posers will get a Auto Si before I get a MT LS430. Sad, but true.
When I see an Auto Vette, I cry a silent tear. I feel the Vette's pain, for sure.
DrFill
I grew up in NYC. Learned how to drive in NYC on an old 4Runner stick, which was like slow death (no pop). An Auto would've been like waiting for Halley's comet.
I will ALWAYS drive a stick, and will always find an excuse NOT to drive a car with an Auto! I was borne and bred a driver.
Autos are fine for candy-a%$ cars like Tauruses and Impalas, but Civic Si and Auto in an Oxynimrod, no doubt. Like a stick in a Lexus LS.
But the posers will get a Auto Si before I get a MT LS430. Sad, but true.
When I see an Auto Vette, I cry a silent tear. I feel the Vette's pain, for sure.
DrFill
I second that.
Lived in and around NYC for the last 10 years, drove stick, no problem. If you consider shifting a chore, then you probably consider driving a chore, not enjoyment. My last job was in NJ, and I lived in CT, I have seen more traffict jams than most people here, and Si with 5 spd was better than any auto, and I will tell you why.
When you drive in stop and go traffic, you constantly switch between brake pedal and gas, because auto's don't provide engine braking. Driving stick in traffic, especially the low geared one like the Si, is a bliss. You leave it in 1st or second, depending on the average speed and just modulate the speed with accelerator. No need to be popping clutch 5000 times, or shifting gears back and forth. 1st gear on the 2002 Si topped out at 15 mph. That is plenty of speed for the stop and go if you learn how to coast, like truckers do. Riding the person's infornt of you bumper won't get you there any time sooner. But by just maintaining average speed with make it easier on you and your car.
Just admit, you are not willing to shift. If someone does not want to put forth an effort to be an active driver, rather than a drone. Then why should they be trusted with high HP?
me: That was very similar to my point of shutting off the ABS in certain situations (snow/dirt) and letting the driver have control.
But I do have to agree with the poster that the choice of an auto. is preferable to no choice. Many people like manuals in cars such as the Si, which is fine. Everyone should get what they like. But just because you like something doesn't mean others have to agree. The only time I care what others do is when it affects me, and someone's trans. choice doesn't affect me.
Now IMO, the near-future Vette will be very good with an auto. I know GM is going to 6-speed autos. and I would guess they'll have paddle-shifters on the steering wheel as the Grand Prix already has them. Audi claims their auto trans shifts faster than almost anyone can.
Not trying to start a whole thread here, just enjoy that we have choice and some people like red and some people like blue.
It starts to snowball too. At first they don't offer a stick on some models, then they notice fewer people buy sticks (naturally) so they only offer a stick on one base model, of course stick sales drop further, and before long they only offer automatics.
If someone really prefers an automatic that is fine, but it is frustrating to see people post who say they really wanted a stick, but they couldn't get one with the options they wanted (could not get a stick Accord with ABS for a while) or the color they wanted etc, so they just gave in and bought an automatic.
It would be nice if automakers were more flexible with ordering like they are in Europe. We gotta have everything yesterday in this country, so ordering has no appeal.
Back to the Civic. Hopefully they will continue to offer a true stick for years to come for those that prefer one.
Let's shake virtual hands and move on.
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From the Spy vid on Edmunds.com I say, the new Civic is a Purdy car.
EVERYONE check out that video.
This definitely enhances the car's appeal! When an owner rolls up, you he's a driver.
Si is Japanese for "No Poseurs!"
That's Cool!
The looks of the new car are good, but put 200HP in the current coupe and I'd be just as slap-happy.
Is 2.9/3.9 as low as the current car will go? I think it'll drop to 1.9 one the '06 hits.
DrFill
Why would manufacturers even offer an automatic transmission on cars like these unless the demand was there? I think Honda will see the light and offer an auto on the Si. If it does, watch the sales numbers go through the roof.