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Yes, number of rotations is dependent on the circumference of the tire, however......you do remember that circumference is DIRECTLY related to diameter, correct?
Circumference = pi * diameter
If the diameter is reduced (lower pressure), then the circumference of that tire is reduced. Reduced circumference (for that tire) means that tire will turn at a slighter faster rpm (in relation to the other 3 tires) at all speeds.
This is the type of TPMS system with is used by Toyota in the Sienna. It uses the ABS sensors to determine if one tire is spinning faster than the other tires. This type of system can only measure RELATIVE tire pressure (ie. pressure in relation to the other tires), not ABSOLUTE tire pressure (actual pressure in the tire).
The type of TPMS system used by Honda in the Ody Touring (and Touring only) actually measures the pressures in the tires.
For our van, this humming problem happens in both level and even slight uphill road condition when the VCM should not be kicked in at all. Another thing, when this happens, the ECO indicator is not ON.
I will try your DIAG mode and let you know what I find out.
Thanks for the information
jnt
I would prefer a minivan, due to the number of carseats and people it can hold, but the Odyssey is not available in AWD. However, it seems that its traction is still very good. Any thoughts, experiences?
Thanks,
Carseats
e.g. If I was to put a mark on the tire (at the center of where the tire touches the road) and push the car such that the mark completes one full rotation. The distance the car would travel would be equal to the circumference.
Now if you repeated this test above with a deflated tire, the one full rotation of the tire would result in the same travelled distance.
Another way to look at this. If I wrapped a thread around the circumference of the tire, and then I deflated the tire, the deflated tire would need the same thread length to circumscribe the tire. When a tire deflates, it just becomes oblong and the circumference does not change. Therefore the RPM of the deflated tire and the regular tire should be the same.
I earlier made the following assertion: "If the diameter is reduced (lower pressure), then the circumference of that tire is reduced."
To clarify, what is reduced with lower pressure is the rolling radius. This is the radius measured from the center of the hub to the ground. (This is not equal all around the tire since, as you've noted, the tire is oblong as it deflates). We can then calculate the rolling circumference (ie. the distance traveled by 1 rotation of the flat tire) as the following:
rolling circumference = 2 * pi * rolling radius.
Note this will NOT be equal to a thread length wrapped around the tire. Instead, this rolling circumference will be equal to the physical circumference of a smaller, perfectly round tire with the same rolling radius.
Take a tire and wheel bu itself - fully inflated - and lean it against a wall. Mark it's height against the wall.
Then take 75% of its air out. Mark this height on the wall. the second mark will always be lower.
Yes, the circumference of a tire expands with more inflation pressure, just like a ballon expands.
Hope this helps.
Wonder if Honda will go with Michelin's "non-pneumatic Tweel™"???...
http://www.michelinman.com/difference/releases/pressrelease01102005a.html
Moses7 :~)
While it is a nice feature of my Touring, it hardly has the utility of the R&N's features.
My EX-L has a trip computer.
The EX-L does have multiple trip odometers, outside temp, as well as a service indicator.
A trip computer (usually) refers to some device which will provide instantaneous as well as trip mpg, and projected miles to empty. Some trip computers also provide other functions.
A trip computer does not tell heading (N, S, E, W). The device which does this is called a "compass". :P
The EX-L does NOT have either a trip computer or a compass. It does have two trip odometers. I've never owned a vehicle with a trip computer (but have rented vehicles with this feature). My observations: kinda fun watching the wild swings of the instantaneous mpg; trip mpg readings always seemed a bit 'optomistic' compared to calculated mpg determined at fillup, and projected miles to empty always seemed fairly conservative (at least on the ones I've rented).
I've got a compass on my current car. Never, EVER used it. I've generally got a fairly good idea of whether I'm facing north, south, east, or west without needing a compass.
DC took off the instanteous MPG reading a year or two ago when Sienna was adding the complete trip computer. Stupid of DC. :sick:
True - but if all I ever really find useful is the outside temp, why pay for all the rest? I've played with the trip computer in the rentals I've had; maybe the problem was there seemed to be too much variation from one to another but I never got comfortable with trusting the info I was receiving. Inevitably, I treat the silly thing as simply another gadget/toy to mess with when I'm bored. Which is why for our van purchase (EX-L), not having a trip computer was NOT a real concern.
I have seen them in most of the DGC rentals I had and just ignore them. If it beeps at me, I might be tempted to break it to keep it quiet.
I guess that we have better things to do with our hands!
I am in the process of getting a 2005 EX-L RES & NAV, and was wondering what type of DVD discs and DVD writers are compatible to play in the RES. If anyone has any experience or comments and would like to share, that would be appreciated. Thank you.
Same with separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger altho this feature was included in ALMOST every luxury sedan for years. DaimlerChrysler made this luxury feature available for the masses when it was offered on DC minivans starting in 1996.
Many people did not want the "Magic Seat" until Honda put it into the Odyssey. Now, all minivan's must have it AND have it split 60/40 once Toyota introduced the 60/40 split "fold-into-the-floor" 3rd row seating in the 2004 Sienna.
People ridiculed the power operated tailgate when DC introduced it...but now it is considered quite important to purchasers of minivans.
I do NOT want leather as it is hot and sticky in the summer and cold and clammy in the winter (unless it is heated). Leather costs far more than the overhead console of the Sienna, Caravan, Grand Caravan, or Town & Country.
Apparently Odyssey owner's are envious of the Sienna or DC minivans because the Odyssey does NOT have the overhead console with compass/outside temperature and Trip Computer. Is that why Odyssey owners downplay a nice feature they cannot have? :confuse:
"Magic Seat" for the third row is a frequently used feature for most bulky transportation that it makes sense to introduce it. Sto & Go feature is a lesser used feature that it presents a less compelling business case to offer it by the other minivan makers. For me personnally, I have never had to remove my second row seats in the past 6+yrs of my 12 yrs of minivan ownership. The third seat rmoval or magic seat was adequate. I believe that is probably true for 75+% of owners, which does not justify the business case described above.
You simply have to remove the cushion from the seat and
hit the lever that allows the metal frame to fold flat.
The cushion and frame will store side-by-side in the well.
Your definition of 'envious' must differ from mine.
In my mind, 'envious' is when I want something which I can't have. If I had WANTED an overhead console with compass/outside temp/trip computer, then I certainly could have purchased a vehicle with these features. I didn't. Since I CHOOSE to buy something without these features, why would you think I secretly harbored some strange desire to still have these features? If someone with a Sienna/DC minivan were to downplay the Ody +1 seat, would it be fair to say they were 'envious' of this feature? If someone pointed out some of the shortcomings of the lazy susan storage area, would it be fair to say they were envious of the feature? I don't think I would personally have the need to have folding 2nd row seats; does this mean I'm automatically 'envious' of the DC vans?
Or is it just possible, maybe, perhaps, that different people appreciate different features? You, apparently, really REALLY like overhead consoles with compass/outside temp/trip computer. Fine. Fortunately for you, there are several vehicles on the market which can address that feti.....er....want.
BTW - of what possible relevance is it if these instruments in an overhead console? If our Ody had all these goodies but they were in the dash instead, would I be 'envious' of folks who had these instruments in an overhead console?
Actually, we can have that and more if we want it. It's called the Touring model. Or we could have bought a DC or Toyota van. But we didn't. The only thing I'm lacking in my EX that you've described is the mpg computer. I've had that in numerous vehicles over the years as well. On the DC vehicles, you can only see one option on the trip computers at a time, mpg/outsidetemp/etc. Mine was always locked on outside temp which was the only "feature" I really used. On my GM vehicles, you get both compass and outside temp built into the review mirrors.
On the Odyssey EX, the outside temp is displayed 24/7 in the dash right next to the trip odometer.
Also, other EX owners that really really need a compass can get the auto-dimming review-mirror option which has the compass built-in.
The only thing I wish I had in my Ody EX is the auto door locking feature.
But would I trade that for the energetic, spirirted, engaging performance of the Ody?
HELL NO! NO WAY!
Those 70+ DGC rentals I had were so boring to drive - there is absolutely no excitement in it. I rent them because it is cheap to do so and I need the room. Yes it would take you from A to B; the Ody does that too but with added fun in the driving process.
Instead of ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM, it is KRROOM KRROOM KRROOM!
never paid attention to the compass (I have to admit that depends on where your live). You will still get lost when you have a nav driving in Boston. Hey, I think edmunds should do a nav comparable test here, titled " Nav the big dig, who's the daddy"
never paid attention to the mpg computer, I got 35 mpg driving downhill on a highway
These were mostly 3.3L and some 3.8L thrown in. The 3.8L (at 215hp and reduced to 207hp for 2005 year) is gutless relative to the Ody's at 255hp for my driving preference. I concur with C & D use of "gutless" or "won't cut it in the crowd of minivans" used in their June 2004 comparo. Of course the 3.3L at 180hp fared worse.
BTW, that 245 Lb-Ft torque is MORE at a lower RPM than the Ody engine that you brag about.
Most rental DC minivans have the 3.3L V6 which definitely does not have the power of the Ody 3.5L V6...but does provide better fuel economy in real world driving than the Ody engine.
Their solution was to rotate the tires based on the diagnosis that I had a radial pull. When I questioned whether they should replace the tire, they said that I had to continue to monitor the problem so they could isolate the tire before authorizing replacement under warranty. I unfortunately did not ask whether they actually checked the alignment on the machine. I'm guessing that they didn't
As for the drive home, it did seem better, while my morning commute felt like it was still pulling. Hard to tell whether it was the road crown.
Few questions:
*Does this seem like a reasonable diagnosis and couse of action?
*How can an average driver like myself best "test" alignment
*Anyone have more info on what radial pull is?
Thanks!
That being said, I find the Ody a better choice for me and like it better than the Caravan. In addition to that, I can't see how anyone can afford to drive the Caravan. The depreciation is horrible, nearly $6,000 more over THREE years. Can you buy similarly equipped Caravan for $6,000 less than an Ody? I would more likely have bought the Town and Country anyway to get a more similar comparison, and the price difference between a loaded T&C vs an Ody was not much at all.
EASILY!!! now with employee pricing etc.. I bought mine in Dec...got employee pricing and all rebates/incentives - saved me almost $10k over price of Oddy EX. Factor in lower purchase price, the price of this difference over 4-5k years, add that to resale of DCX vs. Oddy and I bet the DCX wins!
I don't think you're going to see the typical resale value on the 2005 Oddys, not with all the issues showing up on these boards, recalls etc..
I'd like to see how you come up with those figures. I just checked again (just like I did back in april when I bought my exl-r&n. I'm coming up with a price, after rebaters and employee discount on the Town & Country Touring (adding options to equal the EX-L R&N) of around $29,500. I paid $30,700 for my EX-L R&N.
Actually, resales values remain relatively higher on Hondas and Toyotas even though their leads in quality over "domestics" have narrowed and, in some cases, dipped below the competition. Resale value is a perception and it can be (and now is) somewhat out of sync with reality. There seems to be a lag during which people cling to a reputation of a quality gap that is no longer supported by the reality.
I can remember a day when a Honda was considered to be so much junk "tin" and a miserable excuse for a car. As the quality improved -- and before the public at large caught onto that change -- Hondas were a very good deal allowing the purchase of more vehicle for less money. With rapid depreciation that deal could be even sweeter on a lightly-used vehicle.
Today, the same situation exists for Daimler/Chrysler minivans, IMHO (Ford and GM having nothing very good to offer by way of minivans). Outside of minivans though, all of the "Big 3" have some gold nugget deals available for the open-minded and savvy buyer.
Seat comfort, interior trim materials, some controls, coarse engine
highs: interior flexibility
ody highs
Powertrain, ride, handling, interior flexibility, fit and finish, standard safety equipment
ody lows
No telescopic steering wheel
I was ready to put down a deposit and order a NEW 2006 Ody EX until I test drove a 2005 Ody EX and a 2004 Sienna LE.
I like the 2005 Ody EX and it has more peppy performance than my 2002 T&C LX with 3.3L...but the 2004 Sienna LE was more peppy than the 2005 Ody EX. However, the T&C LX is just as quiet on the highway as either Ody or Sienna.
If I were a very aggressive driver, I would get the Ody or Sienna. The Sienna actually seems peppier than the Odyssey....which surprised me. The Toyota dealers also have more aggressive pricing than Honda.
Overall, I like the 2005 Ody EX better than the 2004 Sienna LE or my 2002 T&C LX but I just can't convince myself that the 2005 Ody is worth actual price of $27,206 vs 2005 Sienna LE $24,900 vs $23,147 of 2005 GC SXT. (I have not yet test driven a 2005 GC SXT with 3.8L V6). :confuse:
How do you figure?
They take no advertising money from auto manufactures or their cronies...
thus, no outside influences to sway their results like most auto rags.
Reliability results come directly from...we the people.
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What are the American "Gold Nugget" deals that will sway me to the other side?
Btw dilbertzzz....are you retired or does someone actually pay you to surf
these sites all day? Just curious?
Our other vehicle is a Yukon XL, bought after the end of the model year for 75% of MSRP. It's loaded, doesn't do all that much worse on mileage than the Odyssey, and conveniently handled 4 adults, a teenager, a tween, a 5 year old, and a 3 year old (with all accompanying luggage and souvenirs inside the vehicle while still allowing a clear view out the back window) on a 3-week driving vacation. Not what anyone else here might pick, but for our family, it was a better 8-seater choice than either the Odyssey or the Sienna.
My point isn't to sell anything (and I can only dream that someone would pay me to hang here!). It is to say that our biases for what is the best product might well be based on outdated and currently-inaccurate data.
Trust me, I still lean toward the Honda and Toyota camp. In both of the last two vehicle purchases described at the top, I checked those first. I was one surprised to find a product better suited to our specific needs, desires, and budget from the "domestic" automakers. Others just might do the same.
But, if you are happy with what you buy, then what else matters?
I have to agree with dilbertzzzzz that a Yukon XL or Suburban will carry more people with all their luggage inside than the Odyssey, Sienna, or even the larger Grand Caravan.
I have always been impressed with the Odyssey except that it is high priced.
Isn't that below the invoice price? What did you do to get that sort of price? I'm shopping and have found slight drawbacks in the Oddy, Sienna & T&C. Overall I would go for the Oddy but for the price. At $30,700 for a EX-L R&N, I'd go for it.
What are some of the recalls on the Oddy?
$2500 - rebate
$1500 - DCX finance (before 0% offer)
$500 - end of year CASH
$4000 - employee price (have friend at Jeep/Truck engineering here in Detroit)
Add $1500 - $2000 for cost of dealer installed tow package on Honda, my DCX has much better tow capability being factory installed and offering things not available for Honda tow (like auto rear air suspension). Honda with tow can handle 3500lbs, DCX 3800lbs.
Don't know of too many Honda dealers in Detroit area "dealing" $4000 OFF any Oddy, most places it's "take it of leave it". Did they throw in a free "Mr. Grill"?
They take no advertising money from auto manufactures or their cronies...
thus, no outside influences to sway their results like most auto rags.
OMG the biase is sooo glaring!! I just looked at latest CR covering small pickups. The NEW Ridgeline is recommended??? I can see the Toyota Tundra, but not Honda's first pickup, even if based on similar components as Oddy etc...
I've not received any recall notices on my April built Ody. We've put about 4,000 miles on it without incident or complaint really. Nothing I didn't know about before buying. It seems to feel a lot better in the power department after it has some miles. I wasn't overly impressed at first, but it's a strong motor and the tranny seems to know where to be.
My Odyssey EX-L R&N at invoice $31,364 (i paid less, but invoice/msrp has gone up so I'll give you that. If you're not good at negotiating a fair price for a car I can't help you.
T&C Touring add leather, low-buck navigation (lacking voice control & backup camera), rear entertain (smaller screen), side-bags, 6-disc, sat. radio, and it looks like you can't get sunroof or cd changer with those options....$28,103.
$3261 difference and you're still lacking quite a few features (although the dc van does have couple small niblets the honda doesn't). I'll give you present value of cash on the $3261 difference over 5 years....say $4,000 even. You're still in the hole $2,000 based on current residual values for the two vans. You can estimate residual all you want based on problems on a car forum....but the folks that put-up the cash for leases don't agree.
I agree though, if you're one of the few that tow, you gotta really want the Ody as the price for the tow package is nuts. I personally wouldn't tow with any minivan though, but that's just me.
Thanks
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/van/112_0505_minivans/index4.html
AND of course, the results were
1.) Ody
2.) Sienna
3.) DGC
which were also the same for acceleration figures. You have to use your lead foot properly.
Geez - this is one more accollade/award I may have forgot to mention in the past!
So I guess the BS is over the fence at this point.
I ignore the BS of separate AC front driver/passenger controls, overhead console, Sto & Go because they are of low value to me and to others. I have never had to remove my second row seats in the past 6 yrs to transport anything. Maybe that is why I do not attract "friends" for the wrong reasons.
But I would much prefer to enjoy the superior energetic, sporty performance on a daily basis.
The Accord 4 cyl engine is more refined than the base Taurus V6 and would out accelerate it as well.
I have been looking for a minivan for a while now and have finally settled on the '05 Odyssey EX-L. The van I'm getting was received by the dealer on July 8. Does this mean that there could still be recalls on it? Or is it new enough that there should be no outstanding recalls??
Is there anything else I should know? Common problems? What's the deal on the rock chip/condenser problem that triggered owners to get custom grills? I will be doing primarily city driving, with the occasional road trip on paved (ie., interstates) roads.
Also, is are a decent aftermarket source for a cargo liner that works with the 3rd row seats down?
I looked at the Sienna, DGC, and some SUVs. I won the van/SUV battle with DH, so I'm hoping this is a good choice because if it isn't, I'll NEVER hear the end of it!
Thanks for any help and guidance.