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Comments
You're over reacting posting this same message everywhere. Would still pick a 5-star Odyssey over the 4-star Sienna anytime.
I'm not going to lose any sleep from this, that's for sure.
Looking at the raw data....looks like the Ody is far ahead of the others. Almost 4 times the head injury rating for the Sienna. Of course, they don't include head injury in their ratings :confuse:
My wife always wears her seatbelt so she wouldn't have a problem!
Actually, the stars only refer to injury index. The number of stars isn't affected by the unlatching of the door. If an occupant were unbelted - which in this case the dummy wasn't - they could be ejected and suffer greater injuries.
I'm very suprised. Honda has one of the most technologically advanced safety testing facilities in the industry. I'm sure Honda tested and tested before production. I wouldn't be suprised to see Honda study the outcome and pay to retest it.
We all have to realize that there are some panicky folks out there that easily over react to non-trivial matters.
Being an engineer, it is like back ground noise that we understand and ignore.
Happy July 4th!
Thanks.
Personally, I think Honda will get to the bottom of exactly what caused the door to pop open in THAT specific test with THAT specific vehicle to determine if any changes are warranted for production vehicles. If they feel that there is a design/production problem which could lead to other instances of this occuring, I'm sure they'll address it.
Toyota had a similar 'problem' when the Sienna was tested: an unexpected gas tank leak in the crash test. The testers were unable to duplicate the problem and Toyota made a running change during production to correct the tanks. In the meantime, I remember several posters (possibly Honda owners) asserting the Siennas were potential firebombs waiting to explode.
IMHO, I think people put WAY too much stock in crash test results. Varying manufacturing tolerances means that you won't always get the same results with the same vehicles under the same crash tests. Just like you won't always get exactly the same performance numbers from supposedly identical vehicles.
Dealer is no help. What do you think?
My wife and I always wear our seat/shoulder belts (as do most responsible people) so this safety concern is as relevant as chicken little telling us the sky is falling.
It is called the Bell shaped distribution curve in statistics. A tight narrow curve is ideal where most/all products are almost identical.
Most like areas to start looking are the power steering and suspension parts.
It's fairly simple people...doors should stay closed in an accident. In an accident you are safer with the door closed than with it open. RIGHT PEOPLE?
In reguards to the Sequoia vs Ody saftey question. I would think the rollover risk with the Sequoia would be much greater than the ejection risk in the Ody. Though you wouldn't be ejected in the Ody if wearing a seatbelt...I can see the possiblitiy of ones head or torso being torqued out the open door...or something hazardous coming into the open door.
Granted it would be rare that the Ody door popping open in a accident would result in serious injury or death. :sick: But, I'm sure you wouldn't want that 1 in 100 person to be you or a loved one...when a simple engineering redesign could prevent it.
Rollover is a bigger concern with the SUV's, however wearing a seatbelt and not driving like a knucklehead reduces your chance of death/injury from a rollover by about 95%.
The worst part about fretting with the safety is you can't pick you accident. That Sequoia would likely be safer (regardless of injury index) if it's going head-on with another full-size SUV. The Honda will likely be safer if going head-on with a tree.
By picking any of the better rated cars these days, IMHO it's nonsense to fret about details. Vehicles are tremendously safer than ever and with a few simple safety steps your risk of death/injury is basically out of your control.
To the rest of the readers, can someone else please share your thoughts on how to feel more comfortable with this ejection question. I'm trying to compare the rollover risk in the Sequoia to this ejection risk in the Odyssey. Quite frankly, the jury is out NHTSA has an article that shows the 4Runner as the safest vehicle based upon deaths per certain miles.
I would bet by now Honda has that problem fixed. If you really like the van, I wouldn't let that stop you from buying it.
The Slate Green looks gray...I have the photo on my computer but can not get it to copy so I can post it.
I bought this OceanMist color,after looking at the photo link you gave...
We got two different answers from two dealers - one yes and one no so this would be the tie breaker.
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Happy with van, but has been in the shop much more than my '97 Buick with 115k miles (3 times for power door; broken airbag sensor).
Which would you consider to be more important - rollover sensors which will inflate the STANDARD side curtain airbags and keep them inflated during a rollover event (Odyssey) or a TPMS system which can only detect a single tire which is low in air pressure (Sienna).
Personally, I can manually check my tires to ensure I don't have a problem. I can't manually activate my airbags during a rollover event to protect my family. So the question becomes, how much does a rollover sensor cost and why isn't it standard in the Sienna?
Or are you of the opinion that ALL POSSIBLE safety features should be standard equipment in all cars?"
--
Here is my response to the above:
I think we agree that TPMS is not a luxury but a safety feature. I would like the TPMS to be offered as a standard feature. In terms of cost, it is probably the cheapest safety feature which can be added.
Ofcourse, I am in favor of all kinds of air bags - front, side, knees etc. This is not an argument about which safety feature is more *important*. This is an argument about why TPMS is being offered only in the most expensive trim level when HONDA has publicly committed to a "Safety for everyone" campaign. This is about Honda hypocrisy.
TPMS will make a lot of women and families feel and become safer. The least Honda can do is to offer it as an option for ALL trim levels. Folks who dont want to spend the extra $100 will not have any heart burn.
Does not it become a mandatory feature in 2007 or something?
1) I liked WCM at first but now I have 6,000 miles and .
2) Either I am attuning to VCM freq and being annoyed or the annoyance is actually growing worse.
3) My 72 year old father noticed the vibration/hum/rumble when highway driving and slight downhill coast at 60 mph. In fact it got pretty noticible. Not tires not anything but definite engagement of VCM. Floor the gas and go on smooth and nice.
4) anyhow, I now wonder if VCM feature can fail either the radio portion or engine mount portion.
I admit when new it seemed near perfect and not overly detectable but I could discern the engagement.
I have some mild mid range hearing loss as does my father. Funny if the audio challenged ANC the ANC. Kind of a counter counter measure!
pasted posts from another forum...
VCM is very noticeable. Whenever it kicks in you can feel a slight vibration in the steering wheel. I could feel this on every oddysey that I drove although it seems to be more pronounced now that I have a few more miles on my van. At first this didn't bother me but now It kind of makes me wonder how long it will be before it breaks or the vibration becomes even more pronounced. I expected more from honda.
According to the service manual there are two microphones but I have not found specific reference to where they are located.
To test the ANC (cliff notes version from the service manual):
Shut all the doors
1) Turn ignition switch to ACC or ON
2) Turn radio off
3) Press and hold presets 1 and 6. While holding them push the PWR knob. Release the buttons and the radio display should say "DIAG"
4) Push preset 1 and it will display "ANC ON". Push it again and it will display "ANC OFF". When it displays ANC OFF you should hear a low frequency (50 hz) hum for about 1 minute.
5) Start the engine while the hum is sounding. The hum should stop
6) Test drive at 55mph. Enter DIAG mode, turn ANC OFF then back to ON and it should activate.
should sound like a "low-frequency hum (50Hz)"
With key in ACC (1) position.
Turn off radio.
Push & hold 1 & 6 preset buttons while turning on radio.
"DIAG" text will appear on radio.
Press the 1 preset button and the ANC will sound for a minute.
Turn radio off to exit diag mode.
When I drive and enter ECO mode and all is very quite I can hear just a very subtle low freq hum from the front or right around me. It is noticable enough to kinda bother me though. Maybe I just have dog ears
And thanks for posting the info about ANC.
One thing though, I'm not sure what your results were...did you notice less or more hum from the VCM when ANC was switched off?
I was surprised to notice that it turns on at low speeds. Before I bought it, I thought this was a highway feature, but it activates for any steady speed above 25Mph and during braking.
And man, is it touchy! When in ECO mode, if speed drops 1 or 2 Mph and you gently, ever so slightly try to bring it back up, ECO switches off and all six cylinders fire. But it takes only a second to get back up to speed and then it turns on again. If you're not paying attention, VCM switches off and on all the time.
And I was very surprised to see how difficult it is to keep it in ECO mode on the highway! Cruise control actually seems to make it worse, because it brings the van up to desired speed, then coasts, then applies gas to bring it back to speed again, causing VCM to turn off frequently. Windy days are the worst, it seems impossible to keep ECO mode activated on the highway.
Anyone else noticed this? Mine is still new (600mi) so I'm still getting horrendous break-in fuel economy (14mpg city/highway combo). I wonder what others are getting with more miles (and yes, I know there is a forum for that but not many posts there).
And anyone know if the same 3 cylinders switch off each time, or do the sides alternate?
Personally, I think that TPMS is a placebo/panacea born from the lawsuits stemming from the Explorer/Firestone debacle. I think we have 'safety features' like TPMS because American drivers have become so numb/inattentive that they have no idea when they are driving around with a tire with only 10 psi. And if a driver is so numb that they can't tell when the thing is actually FLAT without TPMS telling them, then they probably shouldn't be driving (unless of course you've got run-flat tires, in which case TPMS makes sense).
Bottom line - I'm all in favor of items in my car which will help to protect me from the other guy (seat belts, airbags, crush zones, etc.). I'm in favor of driver aids which can help to maintain vehicle control in unexpected/adverse situations (ABS, traction/VSC). But a nanny device to tell me if my tire pressure is too low? Pass.
BTW - you harp on Honda emphasizing safety when the TPMS system in only available on the upper models rather than standard across the board, yet I don't see similar complaints about Toyota (and if you don't think they emphasize 'safety' in their ad campaigns you've been under a rock) when they don't make more important safety devices (side/curtain airbags, traction/VSC) standard across the board.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Three reasons:
1) This is a forum for Honda vehicles.
2) I dont own or drive or plan to buy Toyota a vehicle.
3) Only Honda has the "safety for everyone" campaign. This campaign emphasizes safety for those *inside and outside* the vehicle.
Do you get it now?
NHTSA has issued a mandate that this should be a standard feature starting with the 2008 model year.
Will Honda do an encore by making the TPMS *standard* with the 2006 model year? Per NHTSA requirement, all auto manufacturers are required to add this safety feature no later than 2008 model year.
The thrust of this campaign has to do with the basic design of the structure of the vehicle which not only provides for occupant safety in the event of a collision but also attempts to take into account vehicle/pedestrian collisions.
The thrust of the campaign is NOT to imply that the Odyssey has, as standard equipment, every 'safety' device known to man. Therefore, I fail to understand why you have a problem with a campaign which is based around the vehicle structure and built-in crush zones because TPMS is not standard equipment.
Let's assume that Honda DID make TPMS standard across the board for 2006. Would this make their "safety for everyone" campaign completely true? Why? What about knee airbags? How can they claim "safety for everyone" without knee airbags? Shouldn't they be standard equipment? Why not side torso airbags in all three rows? How about active headrest systems? I think I could come up with a half dozen 'safety' related items which would be more beneficial than TPMS.
At what point would you be satisfied? You've thrown out some numbers ($70/vehicle I believe) for the price for a TPMS system. You DO know that not all TPMS systems are created equal, correct? For a very rudimentary system, which simply uses the ABS sensors to measure tire rotational speed and therefore infer when a tire is low, yes, the price can be fairly cheap. This is the type of system which Toyota uses. You ARE aware that this system only measures RELATIVE tire pressures and if you have more than one tire which is low, the system can't reliably detect a problem. The owner must STILL check their tire pressures periodically with this type of system. The type of system on the Ody Touring measures the actual tire pressures. This system is NOT a $70/vehicle system. And if you think that the TPMS systems which will be installed to meet the NHTSA mandate will be the type which measure actual tire pressures, you are in for a rude awakening.
Now we know why we bought our Ody.
Have a great weekend!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Since the first day, we have noticed the same low frequency humming sound at low RPM (2200 rpm). This happens at both low speed (around town) or high speed (highway). The vehicle behaves as if its transmission is in the wrong gear (upshift too early?) and gets bogged down. In our vehicle, this bad behavior seems to happen at the 2200-2500 rpm engine speed and on incline road. Even our 8 year old, squeaky GM minivan sounds and behaves better than this vehicle in the transmission shifting department
Our Honda van now has more than 7K miles on it. This humming problem is not getting better or worse. That is why we ignored it thinking our van may have ANC problem (radio sends out "wrong" out-of-phase signal to cancel noise) or that is the mechanical signature of VCM. I hope that there is no transmission problem in the long term.
Other than this problem, this Honda van is very good in general (ride/handling/fuel efficiency).
jnt
Did you run the DIAG mode I outlined above. Very simple?
You describe what I encounter in those situations.
The electric sliding doors seems to be the primary upgrade. Would love those but I'm concerned about the reliability of the door(s) motor(s) over time. I realize there is limited history for this feature on the Ody. Does the Sienna also offer elec.door(s)? Anyone have any history with the Toyota?
Lastly, what price premium can I expect to pay for the upgrade from an LX to an EX. Is one model in short supply/lower production figures over the other that would impact discounts?
Thanks alot, John
The one thing about the electric doors is they can be turned off. So if something fails, manual mode works the same as on the others. I'm not sure if the Sienna has this option as one of the reviewers (car and driver??) mentioned they would like to have been able to turn off the Siennas electric doors because they felt they were too slow. We've not had any issues with the power side doors and absolutely love them. The only thing I've heard anyone have problems with (and it was Toyota, not Honda) was with the power rear hatch. Toyota offers this on it's lower-end models, but it only comes on the Odyssey Touring.
The EX comes with quite a few extra features. Heated power mirrosr, power seat, tri-zone climate control (biggie in my book), and better stereo with cd changer to name a few. You also don't get the roof rack with the LX so that could be some extra cost if you need that added by the dealer.
IMHO, I've found if you like/want a feature, it's not worth worrying about the reliability of it. For the most part, vehicles are quite reliable these days and every time you have to yank that door open manually you'll be wishing you hadn't skipped it.
The Ody EX is a very nice, appropriately equipped vehicle. I would like to see Honda add a complete overhead console with outside temp/compass and trip computer....or just add the separately controlled temperature, overhead console, power seat, and cast wheels as an option for the LX.
Although a tire with low pressure has a reduced radius/diameter, the number of rotations is dependent on the circumference and not the radius/diameter.
The circumference of an underinflated tire is not going to be different than
that of a properly inflated tire.
Thus a underinflated tire would not result in a higher RPM when compared to a properly inflated tire, for the same vehicle speed.
The only explanation I can come up with is that it TPMS detects the distance of the edge of the wheel from the ground.
Anyone know for sure how this works.
BTW, picked up my EX-L RES/NAV after a year of following this (and the Ody buying experience forums). Thanks to all for your insights.
NHTSA-Indirect TPMS