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Porsche 911



  • kyingkying Posts: 61
    Now we have to plan a cross country vacation trip with our C4 to North Carolina and Tennessee.

    The last time my wife and I drove through TN and NC was summer 1978 when we were junior and freshman in college. We thoroughly enjoyed our drive with a 1965 Ford Galaxy 500 with several pretty big dents and an undefined color (somewhere between silver, green, and a lot of rust).

    By the way, has anyone driven both the "The Tail of the Dragon" and the Angeles Forest/Crest Highway in SCal? I wonder how they compare.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    I'll fess right up that, as they say in South Boston, I still have my First Communion money. So, while I'm hot on the trail of a 997, I'd like to spend as little of it as possible. I wonder what the board thinks about the following:

    1) New '06 or '07 997 C2 Coupe with power leather seats and little else for, say, sticker less $4500-5000.

    2) A used 997 2005 C2 Coupe with 18 K miles for 66K (asking). The car comes in metallic paint, full leather interior, chrono clock, 19" wheels, Bose, power heated adaptive seats, zenons, PASM, sport shifter, CD changer, Porsche emblem on the back of the seats, etc. etc. from a high end, non-Porsche dealer. The original MSRP was 86K. There are other examples out there for roughly the same price.

    My rough analysis is that a new '06 or an '07 will cost about 4K more plus have higher insurance, sales tax, and property excise tax. With the '05 I I'd be giving up 18K in miles, a year or more in warranty coverage, and lower resale down the road. However, I'd be getting 20K (at list) in desireable options for free and save a little up front.

    Any thoughts?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'm not going to suggest what would be the right choice for you, because it depends upon a lot of factors, including how long you plan on keeping the car, how much you like those extra options, etc.

    Consider, however, that the used one will need a 20k service and full tire replacement, if those items haven't already been taken car of. Together, that could be a $2,500 +/- ticket.

    On the other hand, the used one is already taking a pretty good depreciation hit, so it won't likely decline as much over the next two years as the brand new one would.

    I didn't have the option of considering a used 997. And a used 996 was of no interest to me.
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    Hi kying,
    If I can help with road suggestions, things to see, etc. for your trip over here, just ask. I've never been on the Tail. You can find me at
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Thanks. I hadn't thought about the 20K service and tires.

    You know its funny but living in New England tires seem to last twice as long! What I mean by that is that like a lot of people with European cars we have two sets of wheels/tires per car. As a result tires "seem" to last longer. My Cayenne with 15K miles has a tremendous amound of tire life left in the summer tires. My wife's XC 70 at 75K miles will never wear out the 8 tires she now has. Someone should point out to people who think they are "blowing $1000 on winter tires" that they're not. Incidentally, Ebay is full of Porsche winter tire/wheel deals.
  • kyingkying Posts: 61
    Hi Don,

    Thanks! I definitely will.

  • bsumnerbsumner Posts: 39
    See the new 997 Targa 4 "web special" at

    Interesting. Many thought this wasn't coming. Particularly interesting the Targa is only in Carrera 4 format.

  • harvtharvt Posts: 2
    Bruce Anderson the guy who writes the tech column in Bimmer magizine, recommends that one buy the newest 911 they can afford.
  • svinaiksvinaik Posts: 84

    After lots of deep thinking & meditation, deciding between Cayman S, Cayman Base, Carrera 2, Carrera 4, Carrera S, used , new etc.. etc...!!!!! mortality, immortality and what not...

    just placed an order for 2007 C4 coupe (Tip) with minimal options like Xenon, heated seats & dimming mirrors. I stayed away from any temptations to order any options.

    Fair deal.. get approx. 7.5% off the list.

    Any advice on color combination.. external choices are from Atlas Grey, Slate Grey & Meteor Grey.. and internal from Black, Grey & Blue.

    Any advice from experienced members about any options that I will repent not getting.

    Thanks to Kying, Dweiser & Habitat et el for their contributions to the 911 discussion.

  • hotrod88hotrod88 Posts: 17
    You can't go wrong with Atlas Grey / Std Blk leather.
    Atlas Grey looks almost blk in bright sunlight, with a bit more of a bluish tint when the sky is overcast. Sometimes it looks like dark charcoal grey/blk. Very pretty - receive lots of compliments about the color, as in "I really like that color!".
    I also chose Electric Seats, Heated Seats, Multi-Function Steering Wheel, Colored Wheel Caps, TPMS - very happy with all these - there are none that I want that I did not get. Don't really know about "S" verses "Non-S". Not sure if perfermance difference is noticable, nor ride quality. I image that the "Non-S" gets better gasoline mileage. I chose the "S" and am very happy with it. I get around 21 mpg, but am not a very aggressive driver. I get around 25-26 on the highway (according to the onboard computer). Imagine that one would get 19 mpg with a lead foot. I hope you are really happy with your choice!
  • A couple of thoughts:

    "After lots of deep thinking & meditation, deciding between Cayman S, Cayman Base, Carrera 2, Carrera 4, Carrera S, used , new etc.."

    I don't see anything about "extensive test drives". I hope that was part of the process that led you to a C4 Coupe with Tiptronic. If not, you may be dissapointed. A business associate of mine purchased an incoming C2 base coupe with Tiptronic when the 997 was not yet in showrooms. He recently traded it for a C2S Cab 6-speed. He's writing it off as a $20k lesson in not waiting until he could test drive the cars. You don't have such an excuse.

    "just placed an order for 2007 C4 coupe (Tip) with minimal options like Xenon, heated seats & dimming mirrors. I stayed away from any temptations to order any options."

    It sounds like you are trying to be budget conscious on the options. On the other hand, you are ordering the "4" at a $5,800 premium over the "2", equiping it with a $3,400 (performance and resale diminishing) Tiptronic, and throwing in $1,000 for xenons. Plus, you are considering a $2,400+ extra cost color? See where I am going? The C2S 6-speed coupe, in seal grey, artic silver or some other standard color would cost you $3,000 LESS and would get you a dramatically improved car when it comes to performance (with PASM included free of charge). It would also be a much easier car to resell at a high price, should you decide to do so in 2-3 years.

    I have a tough time saying that any 997 isn't a fine car. They are. But the drive and feel of a base C4 coupe with Tiptronic is so dramatically different from that of a C2S coupe with 6-speed that - if you haven't done extensive test drives - you need to get to the dealer pronto. And you need to be aware that a 911 base C4 Tiptronic will have very limited resale appeal to most "enthusiasts". That's part of the hard lesson that my associate learned when the Tiptronic that cost him $3,400 up front also cost him numerous potential private sales down the road. He ultimately traded it for LESS than he would have gotten for a 6-speed.

    P.S. Even though I have driven every 911 (997) model currently available, I intentionally waited to order my 2007 Turbo until I knew there would be turbos available to test drive before my build date prevented changes. I just confirmed the order last week and should have the car in November or December.
  • svinaiksvinaik Posts: 84
    Dear spiritinthesky.... thanks for your comments & time. I sincerely appreciate. Some reasons behind our choices
    our reasons for going for Tip is that both, me & wifey have tried the manual (after so many years) and find it a bit of hard learning. I am always worried that with my lousy shifting, there is more chances of messing up the clutch / gears and consequently repair costs.
    First, looks great.. wider body & tires !!!
    secondly, some upside in terms of grip on the road vs. C2. I have only driven all wheel drive cars since 2000 (E 320 4 Matic, Cayenne S, ML 500 etc..) for reason that they have better traction in the less than perfect conditions. May be I am over cautious?.
    it will not be a $ 2400 option. I will only go for the regular metallic paint which is a $ 690 option now.
    S vs non S
    assuming that Tip & C4 reasons may have some sense, I cannot afford S on top. I am sure that S will be a different beast but I have to pick between S or C4+Tip. I have traded in ML 500 for this. So my point of reference in terms of performance may be very different from experienced porsche enthusiast.

    In terms of the resale, now I am convinced that all cars go down the tube irrspective of what they are. (I know it from personal experience). Only way I will be trading out of this car is if I win a lottery in the future and odds of that happening to me in the next 10 years is very low. After that time, we will be lucky to get $ 10K for it or for that matter TT.

    However, to your point about your friend's experience, I may decide to go for the lease option vs. buying and have the flexibility. At this time, I have been offered a $ 6500 discount but do not know if that will still be available if I choose to go leasing route.

    Please keep guiding.
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    " ...... seal grey, arctic silver or some other standard color would cost you $3,000 LESS ..... "
    For 2007, Seal Grey has been moved to the + $3,000 extra cost option.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    As someone interested in weighing out the cost of options, I found the above two posts interesting.

    Three thoughts:

    1) What ever happened to basic black? Plain 'ol black is not an extra cost metallic or a special paint option. I personally can't tell the difference between basic Black and the $800 (?) metallic Basalt Black. Given how a lot of people drive and care for their 997s , black shouldn't be that hard to maintain.

    2) If you choose a basic color (black, red, white, etc.) or just a basic metallic (and not a "special" color) you could put the money saved into full leather. For a lot of people a basic black 997 with a sand full leather interior is great looking and roughly the same price as an '07 Seal Grey without leather. I suspect that the black with full leather will have a far better real world resale.

    3) Someone who expresses an interest in the Tip may be saying to himself that he is really looking for a GT. In that case, check out the new Jag XK. It comes with auto, leather, etc. standard, and it is more of a GT than a 997. Sure the depreciation is much higher, but it will be less money up front, have far lower maintenace costs (the tires on a C4 have got to be $350 each), and a softer ride.

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    A few thoughts of mine, FWIW:

    (1) Exterior Color: I have Seal Grey and opted to keep it rather than go for the Speed Yellow I always thought I wanted. It is dark enough to look great, but not so dark as to be a pain in the butt to try to keep looking good. One black sports car in 1984 is all it took to keep me from going back in that direction. If, as I believe dweiser correctly indicates, seal grey is off the "standard" metallic list, I'm pretty sure they replaced it with a close substitute.

    (2) Interior color: I have black and again, like it. I would strongly suggest finding the color combination(s) you might be considering and seeing them in person. Black is pretty calssy and non-offensive. I've seen some other interior colors that really made me shake my head and hold my stomach.

    (3) Tip/Resale: I think you are on track with either buying to own for 8-10 years or leasing. On the other hand, don't be discouraged from trying to learn the 6-speed. I drove a friend's 996 TT (modified to 550 hp) and it was a bloody bear. I hadn't stalled a car that many times in 30 years. But the 997 clutch is pretty easy to get used to. And according to my dealer, other than some track guys that really push the heck out of their cars, he has almost never seen a clutch replacement in under 100k miles on a 996. The 997 was even further strengthened.

    (4) "4" having better traction: I have had my C2S in the rain at 70 mph with no loss of traction. I'm not trying to set slalom records, but it sound like you wouldn't be either. If you do intend to drive it in snow and slush throughout the Ohio winter, the "4" would probably be an advantage, but you better plan on adding snow tires and rims to your budget. The summer performance tire compound is not great in <25 degree temperatures. With respect to looks, I still don't notice the difference between the "2" and "4" in width unless I look closely, since they are both "wide bodies" compared to the 996. And the S comes with 19" 295 width rear tires. I did consider the "4" when I was considering the speed Yellow swap, but prefer the lighter weight "2" for performance and the $5,800 in my pocket.

    Good luck.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'm 6-7 weeks from my one year purchase anniversary. I've slowed down a little on mileage - have 8,500 - but will likely put on another 2,000 miles over the next two months.

    The dealer I purchased from says that the first service interval for an oil change is 2 years or 20,000 miles. The dealer I had it serviced at when a warning light came on says that I should do it at 1 year, 10,000 miles. If I get it done at one year, I'll go back to my purchasing dealer, since their service that includes lube, full checkup of all fluids, etc, along with the oil change runs $500 compared to the other dealers $700. Any thoughts?

    Also, my tires appear to be holding up reasonably well, but I notice the tread depth, using the scientific "stick your finger in" method is less in the rears than the front. Anybody approaching the end of their tire life and at what mileage?
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    Hi Habitat1,
    I bet it's been a good year with your P-car!
    I'll have mine a year this November.
    I'm no expert & don't claim to be but I've been told to change the oil & filter once a year or every 10,000 miles (like you were told)whichever comes first. Oil & filter changes should run in the high $100s to the low $200s so I'd call a few other places if I were you just to compare. I imagine oil changes vary according to geographical area also. They seem to be very costly in CA for example.
    As for your tire wear, what brand of tires came with your car and are they 18 or 19"?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282

    My car came with 19" Pirelli P-Zero's (standard on the 2005 C2S)

    I think I will go for the oil change at 1 year / 10,000. I could have it done at my hometown Acura / Mercedes dealer for $150. The owner has a Cayman S and there is no Porsche dealer within 80 miles, so they get a lot of (non-warranty) service work from local Porsche owners. On the other hand, I may not skimp and go with the $500 full minor service at my Porsche dealer so I can get a full check up on the car. There is alos a TSB to reprogram the PCM/Nav system, even though I haven't had any problems.

    Hope you have had the electronic gremlins exorcised in your C4. How many miles are you up to? Also, how is your gas mileage? I got 27+ on a recent highway trip, but no matter how gently I try to drive, I only get 13-15 areound town.
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    Right, I forgot you had the "S".
    Mine's a C4 Cab and so came with 18" Bridgestone Potenza RE050As.
    My CD player acted up; they want to do the software upgrade to version 2.1 of the PCM software next time they see me.
    It seems like the electrical problems have been fixed; one "bad" sensor replaced, then a different "bad" sensor replaced, then the first "bad" sensor went "bad" again and was replaced. Car was in the shop NINE days for that last sensor! The replacement one PCNA sent had a crack in it so they had to wait until another arrived. I got sort of discouraged and somewhat pissed and complained to PCNA, NOT about the dealer, they were fine, about the car! I have to say PCNA took "ownership" of the problem (a loose ground wire (from day 1 of being built back in Germany) as they suspected), worked closely with the dealer, and stayed up with me until the problem was fixed. I have to say they really impressed me. I'd heard otherwise to be honest but they and the dealer have been great!
    Sorry for the long-winded answer but I wanted to say something nice when it's deserved.
    Just checked, 3,765 miles. I took her out for a top down spin & grin after dinner tonight.
    I get around 20 mpg consistently BUT that's ALL on 2 lane twisty mountain roads (usually) behind old farts. She hardly ever gets out on a 4-lane but I make sure her oil temp always gets to 200 or so even on my short drives.
  • svinaiksvinaik Posts: 84

    I have already firmed up the order for the C4 coupe with the following options.
    Tip, Xenon, Heated seats, Dimming mirrors, color crest for the wheels.

    Last bit that I have to firm up is the color combinations. we are down to the following

    Exterior - Atlas Grey. Meteor Grey
    Interior - Sky Blue , Black..

    Any comments from the experienced members on the possible color combinations amongst the above choices.

    Thanks a bunch.,.
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    Congrats on your order! I love the looks & handling of the "4"s.
    Atlas is a GREAT color in my opinion. A lot like black but more interesting. Could be hard to keep looking real nice, like black, is the only downside I see.
    Meteor being a "new" color, all I've seen are pics and it looks nice BUT try to go see both of these colors (and your interior choices too) in person would be my advice.
  • kyingkying Posts: 61

    Have been tied up with some "real" work in the last few weeks, but I am sending my belated congratulations to you for your order! Now the fun part is waiting for your C-4 to come. Although we didn't order ours, the process of deciding and anticipating is really a big part of the pleasure of owning a P-car.

    For all your options: Xenon is a must, dimming mirrors are nice. Heated seats are handy for a lot of places except where we are (S.Cal). I think color crest for the wheels are vain, but we have them too. Personally I wouldn't want a tip for our Porsche, but if it suits your needs, it would have to be it. My wife has a co-worker who says she would put her Targa on third gear in the traffic on I-405, so she won't have to worry about shifting: She wouldn't drive a Porsche without a tip!

    I like all the Porsche gray shades. Our 2004 Targa is Seal Gray with gray interior. I just read out loud your interior color choices to my wife, and she says,"Sky Blue! No! Black is not my favorite, but I'd rather have black." There you have it. Hope we helped.
  • Svinaik,

    I picked up my new C4S in May, atlas grey with all black leather interior. It's gorgeous. Once I had decided on the atlas grey exterior, I too was thinking of some type of grey interior, in particular stone grey as I didn't know about meteor. Fortunately for me, my dealer had an atlas grey/stone grey on the lot and had good pictures of an atlas grey/black. IMO the black looked much better, particularly when the bluish hue in the atlas grey comes alive. The stone grey looked sort of washed out to me, which to my eye took away from the looks of many of the more sparkling interior features. It's all personal opinion of course, but I'm delighted with the atlas grey/black look. Good luck!
  • svinaiksvinaik Posts: 84
    Here is what I am going with for the C4 (Tip) coupe. Hopefully October build

    Exterior - Meteor Grey
    Interior - Black
    Options - Xenon
    - Sport Chrono package Plus
    - Heated Seats
    - Dimming mirrors
    - Mats

    From my original plan, I have deleted the porsche color crest wheel caps and added the sports chrono package. This is based upon some valuable advice I got from you all.

    I welcome any comments & advice.. Thanks to you all
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    Looks great. Yes, you can get the color wheel caps from the ebay/stores about the same price and you would have an extra sets. By the way, go visit and you will pick up a lot of useful information.
  • kyingkying Posts: 61
    habitat1 and dweiser:

    Last Monday my wife had a flat with the 2004 Targa. She called 1-800-PORSCHE, and they sent two trucks! Both stayed and put the spare on for her. They said she ran over a nail but she needed new rear tires anyway. I bought two Continental Conti Sport Contact (285-30-18 Porsche OE) from Tirerack, and they were here in two days. This is the first time we need tires for the Targa since new, and the odometer reads 21600. The tire guy told me we'd need front tires in about 10-15k.

    We don't really like these Continentals, but I just wanted to match the front tires this time. I think I will change all 4 to either Bridgestone or Pirelli next time.
  • I have just put an order in for a 2007 C2S that should deliver November or early December. I would be interested if any 997 owners had suggestions on what to look for (or look out for) during first year of ownership. This could be maintenance, quirks, favorite break-in techniques, cosmetic, etc. This is my first porsche, but not my first high performance car. Thanks in advance.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'll tackle the favorite break-in techniques as given to me by several knowledgeable Porsche-o-philes.

    (1) Follow the suggestions in the owner's manual about keeping the engine below 4,000 +/- rpms,varying speeds, not using cruise control, etc.

    (2) In addition, in the first 1,000-1,500 miles, do not drive the car for short distances where the engine oil and parts do not reach full operating temperature. That usually takes 15-20 minutes, depending upon ambiant temperature. You can check your oil temperature guage (not water temperature, which goes up much quicker). Ideally, try to drive the car for 30+ minutes at a time during break in.

    The purpose, as explained to me, of #2 is to allow all engine parts, including seals and rings, to fully expand and contract during break in. According to my sales manager, who used to work at the Porsche factory, he is not aware of anyone who followed this procedure having the infamous "rear main seal leak" problem.

    Happy waiting for your new car - it's well worth it.
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    Habitat1, as usual, offers good soild advice.
    My salesperson told me to "drive it like you stole it" and there are proponents of this theory. I am NOT one of them. Having almost 4,000 miles on my "new" Porsche I can tell you the engine is TIGHT when new. You don't have to baby the engine but I would do nothing over 4,000 rpms until you see the first 1,000 miles. Then I would slowy increase the pedal and the fun but still not go crazy until around 2,000 miles. The new tires do not grip as well until they get to roughly 500 miles. Vary your speed, try to avoid panic stops with the new brakes. Your stock P-car will be low and the front "bumper" extends further than it appears to so be very careful when pulling up to those concrete parking "stops" - they're really easy to ride up on. Sounds silly but your garage wall will be real easy to "hit" with the front of the car too.
    Oh, and NEVER whip your engine until the oil temp gets to 200; broken in OR after!
  • Thanks to both dweiser and habitat1. Sounds like great advice. When I test drove the Carrera S at the dealership I noticed it was hard to see where the nose ended when parking it next to the curb. I'll err on the side of caution until I'm used to the length. I'll have the clear bra installed soon after delivery, but that won't stop curb rash on the bumper. I can already tell that it's going to be hard to stop at 4000 rpm after that drive. Oh well, the first couple of thousand should go pretty quick. Thanks again.
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