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Porsche 911



  • Any comments out there about purchasing the extended warranty on a 997 turbo? I was offered a 7yr 70,000 mi warranty for $6,000. I was told it was a good price because there is no price difference (from Nat'l Underwriter) for turbo vs non-turbo. The dealer is giving me a couple of days to decide. Also, any comments about the different companies and their history of paymenmt?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    That price sounds very high, if it is ineed the same for a non-turbo. My Porsche dealer recommended Fidelity Warranty Services through JM&A Group. I was quoted around $5,500 for a 7 year, 100,000 mile warranty. However, the clock doesn't start ticking until the warranty is purchased, so if I bought now (1 year after buying the car) it would effectively be an 8 year/100k warranty.

    Warranty Direct recently sent me quotes of $4,200 for a 7 year/75k mile "Luxury care" bumper to bumper and $3,700 for a similar length "SecureCare" Plan with a few more exclusions. Their "MajorCare" plan which covers most big ticket items is only $2,200 for 7/75.

    I am not going to buy an extended warranty until at least a year from now or later. They have little value on resale and if you buy a 7/75 when the car is new, you are effectively only getting 3 additional years and 25k miles over the factory warranty. I'd rather wait until I decide how long I'll keep the car.
  • Thanks for your response. I have never purchased ANY type of extended warranty, but the finance guy at the dealer gave a superb explanation that had me reaching for my checkbook!! He was an XLNT salesman. I hesitated and told him I would do further checking and now with your info I have a good start. His comment also was, National Underwriter was (in his opinion) the best warranty to purchase. I will check into the names you have mentioned. Thanks again!
  • In general, what a car dealer loses in the sales cubicle with big discounts, he more than makes up in the F&I Room. Heck, how else could a dealer sell a car at invoice and pay his light bill if his F & I guy wasn't making money on mop 'n glo, extended warrantys, finance deals, the hold back, etc. etc. In my limited experience though most Porsche dealers don't play games on F & I.

    Having said all this, my dealer didn't even suggest the invisible film stuff for the front end sheetmetal. I had them put it on my Cayenne for $700 or so and highly recommend it.
  • Geico gave me a ffree extension to 7 years and 100,000 miles as part of my regular insurance...Im not sure why but I wont question it , the deductable is 250.00
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Hey, I have GEICO. Tell me more. I know they have an extended warranty program, but I didn't think it was free.

    Also, for what it's worth, they initially quoted me around $1,100 a year for my 911, and then the first bill came in at around $2,000. Turns out they rated the 911S in the same category as a Carerra GT. Took quite a bit of work to get them to give me the same rate as a base 911, but they finally did.
  • chile96chile96 Posts: 330
    Guys - please don't buy these extended warranties! These F&I guys will say whatever it takes to sell you these(they're marking them up 100% BTW) and each dealer will sell usually just one company's warranty and of course say it's the best, most reliable, been around the longest, etc....

    This was all told to me first hand by the F&I guy at the Porsche Dealership who left for the mortgage business.

    He told me that they would absolutely LIE to do whatever it took to sell these warranties and tire coverages. I already knew this but he said most of the time, these company's would declare bankruptcy and all their assets would be in the Bahamas so they would be untouched. They would start the company over again under an adjusted name and not have to honor any previous issued warranties.

    Seriously, for $5-7K, put that money in the bank and collect interest(albeit tiny). Once in a blue moon something big will go out and at most cost the amount of the warranty - but even if it was covered by the warranty(which they'll fight tooth & nail), you'll still have to pay some of it out of pocket because they'll say, "Yeah, we'll cover the clutch but we won't pay for the labor on X(which has to be done) or this or that. And we'll also only pay $40 per hour for labor, not the $110 your porsche dealer charges"

    I know there have been SEVERAL threads on Edmunds about these extended warranty companies and how they're screwing people left and right.

    FWIW, I have not had any experience with these companies so I am not bitter - just don't like to see honest people getting screwed over. So if you're a crook, yeah - go ahead and buy one - they're great! :D
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    In general, I would agree with your "caveat emptor".

    However, I would also assume that most people successful enough to buy a 911 are also smart enough not to be easily and imprudently pursueded by the F&I guy. It's relatively easy to shop around and look into the credentials of the various companies offering these warranties. Pricing is negotiable as well.

    It is absolutely true that the probability you will spend more than $5k on repairs on a 911 is less than 50/50. Otherwise, all of these companies would be out of business. Same is true for the collision component of your auto insurance. I am paying $2,000 a year on our three vehicles for that, and haven't had an at fault accident in 15 +/- years. Geico is $30k ahead on me. Should I drop collision on our 911 and save $800 a year? (I have raised the deductable to the maximum $1,000 already).

    Point is, with a 911, an out of warranty engine replacement (rear main seal leak) is $15k+/-. Replacement of the navigation system if the screen dies is $4k +/-. Electrical gremlins at 60k miles - who knows? There are lots of other items that would cost hundreds on a Honda that cost thousands on a 911.

    I am absolutely NOT advocating extended warranties. In fact, I doubt I'll get one because, for me, a $15k engine replacement is a low probability item that, if required, would not bankrupt me. But others may have a different risk profile, to which I would recommend shopping hard and doing lots of research.

    P.S. We probably will get an 8/120 extended warranty on our MDX. It's relatively cheap ($1,500) and I'm not completely convinced that the automatic transmission woes of Acura have been solved. More importantly, it is thoruhg AcuraCare - a factory program that pays 100% of the costs and there is no third party company to deal with. BUT, we have been offered the plan from a midwest dealer for $500 less than the DC dealers were willing to discount. So "caveat emptor" still applies.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 57,564
    Exactly---these are really insurance policies, not warranties; and like insurance companies, they are betting your car will not break and you are betting it will. The higher the insurance policy, the less confident the insurance company who are presumably reading all the repair stats on your model.

    You definitely have to read these "warranties" over and see what the exclusions and deductibles are. They will rarely match a factory warranty.

    they are a product like any other and you can shop around.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • $1100! Im paying $2400! 39 years old great driving record and in NYC am I missing something? 2,000,000 coverage though.

    As far as I know, thats all there is to it, that on Brand new cars they offer the program automaticly, call them for more info? what is everyone paying for insurance?
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Im paying $2400! 39 years old great driving record and in NYC am I missing something?

    You're missing the green grass and arbor canyons of the suburbs. NYC insurance is expensive. ;-)
  • I am interested in finally joining the Porsche family. I am researching everything Porsche to learn as much as possible. I want to purchase a 911TT. Where can I get the annual production quantities?
  • Thanks all for the responses to my Extended Warranty question. At least I now know I have plenty of time to make a decision to purchase one or not.

    When I gave the 997 Turbo info to my auto insurance broker, the insurance quote was $1,000 PER MONTH!!!!! As it turned out, my company, Mercury, simply did not want the business. He searched the market and directed me to State Farm. I paid $473.23 for 6 months (Orange County, Calif)! I found that it is best to search your local area market for the best rates.

    I recently had a Clear Bra installed, $625. Any pro or con comments?
  • Anyone have sources for replacement of the front bumper spoiler? It seems that I am not being careful enough entering/exiting driveways and I would like to have one ready to install. Porsche parts quote $200 which seems reasonable, but I may as well check other suppliers.
  • Had it put on for the entire nose and 1/3 the hood, the mirrors, and the wells behind the doors, $700, saw some very light bubbling that can only be seen from an angle, the istaller said that it will settle down in time, not sure how true this is, but thats what he said, as I said its slight. Was told to have it done before thae car left the dealership, as to avaid trapping dirt under the film.
  • Habitat1, what about Porsche's CPO program? How good is that? Jags, LR, and BMW offer good CPO programs that give you much better (i.e., longer) protection than buying a new car. Unlike Jag or LR though, Porsche's don't depreciate much so a used 997 is still going to be close to the new price.

    Speaking of prices (you all know that this is one of my favorite topics), I think that Porsche resale should get even better as they trot out ever more expensive variants on the 911. There has to be a halo effect that would extend down to a "lowly" base 997. I mean, even an upper middle class guy should be able to catch some spillover effects from the truly high end people (entertainment lawyers, trust funders, Silicon Valley types, hedge fund managers, joint MD/JD's, etc.) buying GT-3 RSs, now-used GT Carreras, 997 Turbos, 997 Targas, 997s with Aero kits, etc.

    I think that the rear main seal (or RMS as the car mags say) is confined to early 996s. Speaking of 996s, I get the impresssion that you are adamant that a 996 is far inferior to a 997 and you wouldn't even consider one. Is it just the interior and the RMS leak?
  • Porsche had quoted me $1,000. You received a decent price from the dealer. My installer was very intent on my being pleased with his work and came out again 4 days later to replace the one wide bumper piece. He had also stated that the bubbles would settle down and sure enough, two little ones are now gone. I have noticed orange peel differences between the manufacturers. 3m which I have seen on the Lotus' have an excess amount of orange peel, VentureTape is what was installed on mine and it has less orange peel.

    The install can be done anytime, your dealer must have made that comment so he would recive the sale. My installer clayed the surfaces before installing.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I didn't consider a used Porsche, but you're right, their CPO extended warranty is pretty impressive. My friend with the 2001 Turbo actually considered turning it in off of lease and then repurchasing it with the CPO warranty. Until he drove a 997 S. His 2001 Turbo was turned in with less than 12,000 miles in 5 years. His 2006 997 S coupe has 2,500 miles in 3 months. That should tell you something.

    I am not "adamant" that the 996 is "far inferior" to the 997. It's just that the 997 appeals more to me as an daily driver and I appreciate the performance improvements as well as the aesthetic ones. But, if you can get a good deal on a CPO 996, you aren't going to get a "say what?" from me.

    P.S. It appears the RMS leak has occured on some 997's. None that my dealer is aware of, but check out the "Rennlist" forums. That is why I was religious about following break in recommendations and post them monthly.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I’ve read the break-in procedure that you posted in the past and follow it religiously myself despite the camp that believes you should "drive it like you stole it." However I don’t recall reading anything that associates the RMS issue with break-in. From what I understand, the problem stems from the seal and engine design in addition to exceeded tolerances. In any event, definitive explanations for the issue seem quite elusive. Personally, my intuition tells me it is possible for break-in affect the RMS just as it affects the rest of the engine, but it seems nothing about it has really been fingered.
  • I have recently purchased slightly used 2005 C2 and getting it financed through my credit union. They have offered me a 5 Yr / 75000 mile extended warranty @ $ 1700 (with $ 250 deductible) or $ 2700 (no deductible).

    The years and miles are after the original warranty expires. This means that along with 2 years of original warranty + 5 more yeras, I will have 5 years warranty.

    I am sure I will be signing this up (opting for $ 250 deductible options) and on checking with the credit union folks, they personally had very good experiences with this.

    I feel somehow more confident about warranties offered by Credit Union folks than the dealers promoted companies.

    Anyone with additional perspective. Thanks
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Regarding RMS and break in, I can only tell you that my sales manager (who formerly worked at Porsche headquarters and seems to have a lot of technical/engineering knowledge) gave me that advice. He indicated that a high percentage of the RMS issues they had on 996's (and Boxsters) could be traced to a lot of short hop driving during break in. The typical story is Dr. X. buys a new 911, lives 5 minutes from Johns Hopkins but just can't resist driving the car back and forth from work, day after day, during what should be the break-in period. The engine, oil and seals never get a chance to fully warm up and expand, then cool down and seal/seat. A year or two later, bingo, RMS leak.

    The RMS leak issue has not, to my knowledge, been fully explained in any "official" Porsche customer communications. I couldn't even confirm that there really was a change from the 996 to the 997 in the RMS design. Shame on them. It's one of the few smudges on Porsche's integrity that I am aware of.
  • I wonder (it's Sunday PM and no parts departments are open) if the part number for the RMS for the early 996 is the same as for the late 996? Same as for the 997? What was the fix that Porsche did to the 996s? This might help to tell us if the problem has persisted into the 997s.
  • What do you mean Clayed the surfaces?
  • Hello Jeff, Clay is a method of cleaning the paint surface. Visit this internet site:

    It will describe how clay is used. I use Clay Magic instead of the Griot's product but I use a lot of other Griot's products.

    I picked up my Turbo on a Friday night and clayed it Saturday after I had wiped it down and discovered quite a bit of either paint overspray or some other type of contaminate on the surface. Now it shines like a new car should!!
  • Habitat,
    Did you get a chance to talk to your local dealer about a Turbo 911 (Tip) at MSRP? I had one lined up at my local dealer and they sold it out from under me. Thanks!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 57,564
    For those who have asked about the rear main seal leak in the 996 models, I've inquired through a major Porsche engine rebuilder in the San Fran Bay Area and here's what he says:

    He says the problem lies in the new engine case designed for the 996, which uses 6 main bearings in stead of the old 8 mains in the 993. For this reason, he presumes, the crankshaft is not adequately supported and may....may...caused movement of the seal and leakage.

    The current remedy is to use an improved seal, which is installed in a very non-intuitive manner, that is....DRY, and with the crankshaft area DEGREASED and with no one even TOUCHING the seal surface prior to installation.

    As to what % of 996s leak or how likely yours is, he really can't say....but he does see this problem and it is well-known in Porsche circles. Yours is probably fine but it's a good thing to watch out for.

    Another thing he suggests is that if any 996 owner is having difficulties with heating system components, such as blown out heater cores or radiator overfill jars, this indicates excessive cooling system pressure possibly caused by a bad head gasket. So if you see these symptoms have the engine tested immediately.

    Hope this helps. If the 997 case is the same engine case, then we may see the same problem...if it has been re-designed to improve this situation, then okay I guess.

    Porsches GT and racing motors are, curiously, 993 engine cases modified for water cooling.

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  • Hi all --
    Perhaps others have similair observations - please let me know, because I am worried that perhaps I have a bum transmission in my 2006 Carrera S. Shifting into higher gears is sometimes silky smooth, and other times feels "tight" or "stiff". I always push clutch in all the way before shifting. Also, sometimes I'll be sitting at a stoplight, and it will not go into 1st. Releasing clutch and then repressing solves this. Lastly, sometimes it feels like you can feel a gear mesh when shifting - is this what people refer to as knotchy? Thansks.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I haven't experienced any of what you describe. My 2005 shifted great from day one and continues to do so. The only slight stiffness is when it is cold, but that is mild and goes away quickly.

    I suggest you try driving other 911's at your dealership for comparison. If your's still seems tight, stiff, notchy or whatever, then you can grab the service manager and have him check it out.

    P.S. Was the car brand new when you bought it, without demo miles? A friend went to try out a "new" 911 several weeks ago at one of the local dealerships. As it turned out, it had over 900 miles on it and he also claimed it didn't shift as smoothly as mine. Perhaps coincidence, perhaps not.
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