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Porsche 911



  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282

    I'm curious - does your 997 Turbo ride as harshly as your friends 996 Turbo? I have a friend who turned in his 996 turbo off lease and got a 997 C2S. He let me drive it a few times before he parted with it and the big differences compared to my C2S Cab that I found were:

    (1) his 996 Turbo had a very stiff sport suspension that was not adjustable. Even with it's 18" wheels, it was at least as harsh - or harsher - than my 997 C2S with 19" wheels with the PASM set on "sport". The 996 actually felt like it had slightly more body roll, but every little bump that the wheels hit rattled my fillings. By contrast, my 997 set on normal PASM mode, handles our local streets quite well. I assume the 997 Turbo has the same PASM as the 997 C2S and allows you to toggle between normal and sport suspension settings?

    (2) his 996 Turbo clutch (aftermarket) was very hard to modulate. Even after several sessions with the car, I'd occassionally stall at start up and would do the herky jerky between 1st and 2nd almost every time. I'm sure I'd eventually get used to it, but it was pretty embarassing. I guess you can't compare, since you have a Tiptronic, but I hope the 997 Turbo clutch is similar to the C2S.

    My friend had his 996 turbo modified with a chip, special exhaust, clutch and other engine parts such that it put out 520+ horsepower and 520 ft lbs at the wheels. At 62, he took it to a track event and ran an 11.4+/- second quarter mile. The first time I rode in it, I actually felt pressure on my eyeballs after he floored it on an empty stretch of road. It was scary fast, but not very much fun to drive around town at subsonic speeds over imperfect roads.

    So how much of a dent have you put in your 10,000 miles per year of pleasure driving so far?
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    My understanding is that the Sunshine Kids:

    should fit in the back, as it is one of the narrowest baby seat made.

    When your kid is over 30lbs, you can move to a booster seat, the Briax Parkway seems to work:

    The Britax Parkway is easier to install and remove being a booster seat, but then, the Sunshine Kids seat should be safer being a convertible seat with a 5-point seatbelt.
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    I have also scratched the lower spoiler a few times even at very low speed. Two things:

    1. I would definitely not paint it (Porsche left it unpainted for very good reasons), nor would I lower the car.

    2. I won't even bother replacing it it's bound to happen again! Luckily my scratches are cosmetic only at the bottom (you can only feel them if you run your fingers under the spoiler).
  • ifpskenifpsken Posts: 39
    I do not believe my Turbo rides as harsh. Obviously, with the suspension set to Sport it is harsh. I have not driven a C2S, so cannot compare, and when I drove the C4S it was only for a short distance, but the Turbo does not feel harsher or smoother than the C4S. Yes, the PASM was standard, but I do not know if it is the same. I would assume it is the same though.

    I did not have a problem w/start up driving the 996TT manual, my problem was watching for red line, floored in first gear. It came upon me in what seemed like a fraction of a second and I hit the rev limiter! I will more than likely do the same as your friend (chip & exhaust).

    I have owned it 5 weeks now, have 643 miles (I have been out of town too often this past month) and will probably take it out tonight for 50-75 miles. We have a canyon road, in our locale, that is quite fun.

    To W210, I placed a new front spoiler on order, was told $200. Mine is also scratched on the bottom and I believe I will have to replace it sometime soon.
  • Thanks for the info!! I am going to order the sunshine kids product today. Keeping my fingers crossed.
  • "I did not have a problem w/start up driving the 996TT manual, my problem was watching for red line, floored in first gear. It came upon me in what seemed like a fraction of a second and I hit the rev limiter!"

    Interesting and appropriate observation. When I had the opportunity to test drive both the Tip and 6-speed in Germany, I was pleased to see that they slightly raised the redline on the 997 Turbo (6,500 +/-?). It's still pretty easy to bump into the rev limiter, but the 997 is a little better than the 996.

    On the other hand, for those that REALLY like to row their own gears, I think the new GT3 would be a hoot to drive with it's 8,400 rpm redline. Not to mention that the lighter weight and RWD setup would produce better handling characteristics than the 450+ lb heavier Turbo. I'm a die hard manual driver myself, but not so die hard as to want a track car as a daily driver. Hard to call the TT a compromise, but in that respect, it is the right mix for me.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Well, if no one else with a 997 wants to take this post, I will.

    I'm laid up for a few days with a reconstructed ACL yesterday. No fun in the 911 for a week or two, I suspect. To add insult to injury, I turned on the History Channel this morning to find a 1 hour special on the history of Porsche. If you haven't seen it, check your local listings - I think they replay it every couple of months.

    Unfortunately, it's a little dated and stops with the evolution of the 993 model in 1995. But it was great to see the beginnings with the 356 and 40 years of evolution and tradition. I would never flaunt it to my non-Porsche friends, but it made me proud to be part of a unique "family".

    Anyone here know where the term "Carrera" came from?
  • Named after the Carrera Panamerica race in Mexico. I think the 550 won it in the fifties.
  • amhjmsamhjms Posts: 14
    I've got a 2000 Boxster (base) that I've had for nearly four years now. It have been a dream (it is a daily driver) and I'm becoming convinced that I'll always want a Porsche in the garage. At some point I hope to be in the position to upgrade and after seeing a video of the new GT3 I'm wondering whether or not I should consider a GT3 (I'm not interested in the Turbo, especially for the money). Anyway, my questions are (1) would a GT3 (a 997 model) be a practical daily driver - i.e. could I reasonably expect the same incredible reliability I've experienced with my Boxster and (2) depreciation - what could I expect on a GT3 with this regard? Looking at eBay it seems like GT3s hold their value very well in comparison to most "less-special" (is there such a thing for a Porsche) Porsche models. While a GT3 is quite very expensive (or it would be for me) to purchase, even a nicely packaged 911 2S/ 4S could reach $90 - 95+, and therefore it seems if a GT3 holds its value better, it actually might be a good alternative and not that much more costly in the long run. Reliability seems tough to judge based on the small production volumes of GT3s, but I curious if others have hear or experienced something they could pass along. If seems like more people would have figured this out, so I'm guessing I'm missing something (this seems like a bit of arbitrage) but am not quite sure what.

    Anyway, I'm a person who likes to plan things way in advance so would appreciate any thoughts from others as I think about this over, save up money and work on angles to play on my wife (who still thinks I'm a fool to be so in love with cars). Happy driving to all!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'm anxious to try out the 997 GT3 myself, but one specific factor will kill any deal for me - it's a 2 seater. My duaghters riding in the back of our C2S Cab has been a big factor in my overall enjoymnet of the car and justification of its price tag.

    Whether or not the 997 GT3 would work as a daily driver will, IMO, be a highly subjective, individual judgement. I had a 2002 Honda S2000 that was heavily debated as to whether or not it was suited for daily driving. Noise was the biggest issue, followed closely by ride harshness. I found most complaints against the S2000 to be coming from those that didn't really appreciate sports cars anyway. But spending $100k+ on a 997 would be upping the ante quite a bit over your former Boxster, so I suggest you make a plan to extensively test drive one before making the plunge.

    One thing you might try is test driving a used 996 GT3. I think it would be safe to say that if you were comfortable with that as a potential daily driver, the 997 will be an improvement. Not sure if the GT3 will have the adjustable PASM, but assuming it does, that alone would make it easier to own as a daily driver compared to the 996. I haven't heard much either way about the dependability or durability of GT3's - other than that they were apparantly exempt form the rear main seal (RMS) leaks that affected stnadard 911's. The only GT3's I've looked at seem to have too few miles to draw any long term conclusions.

    I agree with spiritinthesky - if you like to row your own, an 8,400 rpm redline is second only to my former 9,000 rpm S2000 in giving you room to play. With a lot more power. ;)
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,266
    Is Spanish for race

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Infiniti G37x Q40 AWD

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I can't imagine owning a GT3 and using it as a daily driver. I would love to have one - for weekends and DE's only.

    I haven't driven a Porsche in almost 20 years, so I went and tested a 911 Cabriolet and Cayman S last weekend.

    The room in the back seat of the 997 impressed me (Habitat1, I take back everything I ever said about you abusing your kids), but unfortunately, the dealer didn't have any 911 hard-tops in stock (!?!?) so I didn't get the undiluted 911 experience I was looking for.

    OTOH, the Cayman S stunned me with it's poise and performance, and I think it would be a significant step up from the Boxster you're currently driving.

    I say before you drop six-figures on a GT3 you'll likely never push to it's limits, drive the Cayman S.
  • amhjmsamhjms Posts: 14
    Thanks for the feedback to my GT3 questions. I was speculating that feedback on using as a daily driver would surround ride, etc. I actually have three young kids as well, but surprisingly having the Boxster has never really been an issue for us. That said, if I do consider going w/ a GT3 I'll look into whether I could get one made with the back seat (making it that much more unique, although perhaps in a bad way!)

    The car would be used in Oregon where the roads are generally smooth. However, as the weather is lousy I was considering having another car for daily driving, perhaps a GT3 would make this an even more attractive/ important solution.

    I've thought of the Cayman, but I've been so happy with the Boxster that I think I'll either go 911 (really my dream) or get another Boxster.

    Anyway, while I am American, I'm actually living in Amsterdam right now so hope to get to Stuttgart in the next few months and maybe I can talk through my dilemma with someone there for insights, as well as inquire about custom building alternatives.

    Thanks again for the help, and if anyone has insight on GT3 reliability I'd still appreciate hearing about that.

    Best to all and long live Porsche!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "Named after the Carrera Panamerica race in Mexico. I think the 550 won it in the fifties."

    You win. :) I guess that also tells us where the Panamera comes from as well.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I don't think reliability would be an issue compared to any other European sports car, but I suspect maintenance and parts would cost quite a bit more than your "run-of-the-mill" Porsche. Expect to pay considerably more for brake pads/rotors, tires, plugs, filters, etc. Labor will also likely be more involved and expensive after warranty.

    As for the custom back seat idea, I think it would be difficult with the factory roll cage thats in there...

    I live in Seattle, so if you do end up with the GT3, please come out to some local club driving events (PIR, PR, SRP) and let me check it out (I guarantee you'll be the center of attention)!
  • msabbamsabba Posts: 6
    Did you ever decide between the C2S and the Turbo? Nothing like living vicariously via this forum.
  • Did you ever decide between the C2S and the Turbo?

    Sorry for keeping you in suspense. And the answer is.....C2S..... with a large dose of frustration for the dealer having wasted my time.

    I had pretty much decided on the Turbo, but was getting nervous about the delivery date slipping (now mid November). I asked the sales manager to see the actual order documentation / verification from Porsche. As it turned out, the incoming Turbo does NOT have the optional sport chrono / overboost option. I had asked that specific question at least twice when we were going over the options. Shame on me for not figuring out that the MSRP I was being quoted was about $2,000 too low.

    But no real regrets. I still hadn't convinced myself that the Turbo would be a good daily driver. And, after complaining to the general manager about the stupid mix up, he knocked another $1,000 off my car. Which should be in this Friday (yes, the 13th).

    P.S. Can someone tell me what would possess someone paying roughly $45k more for a Turbo over a C2S to NOT check the $1,840 sport chrono that provides overboost from 460 to 505 ft lbs of torque? Not to mention faster throttle response and firmer braking. That's unbelievable.
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    It will be a sin to order a turbo without the sports chrono so you made a good move walking away.
  • You aren't going to get a spare tire in a 911 because there isn't anyplace to put one. Period. And have you priced the run-flat tires you'd like Porsche to use instead? $$$$ and you have to have rims that are designed to use them so they don't fall off or shred.
  • You're not trying to claim that an old 914 or 911 can hold a candle to the engineering in a new 997 are you? Besides, if you really want to carry a full size spare, you can always put the thing in the front trunk of a 997 and not carry luggage there.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 63,383
    pathdoc isn't likely to reply... He posted that message about two years ago... :)


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  • I have just been through the process of ordering a 997 Targa 4S. The car has a base price of $95,900. With a ton of options (including custom paint, full leather, and all of the dark wood [Makassar] options, as well as 20 others on the extensive list) the price became $125k plus tax and license. The dealer [Beechmont Porsche in Cincinnati, OH] gave me a $5,000. discount and split the cost of enclosed trailer transport to California. If you need to buy a Porsche, I highly recommend Bruce Harnish. Don in Folsom, CA
  • redsoxgirl,

    I agree with W210, you did the right thing on passing on a Turbo w/o sport-chrono. I asked my dealer about it and he said he was unaware of any Turbos that had come in without that option in his entire region (Northeast). My dealer would not order a Turbo without sport chrono without at least a $10k non-refundable deposit. It will be hell to re-sell if the orignial buyer walks.


    It sounds like you've ordered quite a car. But I hate to burst your bubble, that is not a very good discount. There is at least a 13% dealer mark-up on the car and options. My dealer indicated that he would give an 8% discount on such a car, which would work out to $10k. If you are so inclined, ask Don at Bruce Hornish to give you a better deal. With all of the options you are loading up on that car, you deserve it.

    Also, just curious, why $125k for a Targa 4S when you can get a Turbo for $130k-135k?? Even the future Turbo Cab should only come in at around $140-145k
  • Porschetarga4S,

    ditto on the comment on the "discount" and double ditto on the questions
  • ifpskenifpsken Posts: 39
    Habitat: I put a fair amount of miles on the TT this weekend, it is now up to 850 miles. During my lengthy drive on Sat I switched a few times between sport and comfort for the sole purpose of trying to compare the comfort of the 997tt vs the 996tt. At the default comfort setting, the ride is definitely more comfortable than the 996tt, in Sport it is definitely more firm/harsh than the 996tt. It would be a very acceptable daily driver with regard to comfort.

    Redsox girl: Congratulations on your decision! Even though the Sport Chrono was not an option, I believe that you would have thoroughly enjoyed the power of the TT. But as an only car, I believe the storage limitation would have been a sore subject for your ownership period.

    I, for the first time, jumped on it, from a standstill 1st and second gear, shifting out of 1st at about 5700rpm on Sat and..... WHAT A THRILL!!!! Obviously, I have never experienced this kind of power before so it was quite exhilarating! Perhaps I should try Willow Springs after the break-in!?!
  • hi,

    i am still in the hunt for my dream car. i was thinking of stepping up into a 2001 911 Turbo with very low miles.


    1. its a non porsche dealer. (they sell exotics and have been around forever, but nonetheless, not an authorized dealer. is there a drawback to buying an expensive car like this?

    2. how dependable were the 2001 Turbos? did they also have the rms leak?

    3. the price is $74,000.00 even and it only has 9000 miles on it. is this a fair price?

    4. is the maintenence much much higher on a turbo than a non-turbo or about the same ie oil change, tuneup?

    any other thoughts about the 2001 turbo would be helpful.

    thanks very much

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    1. My frined who traded in his leased 2001 Turbo on a 2006 C2S said it was resold by the dealer for $73k+/- with a 4 year/100k total CPO Warranty. It had 11,000 miles, with factory and certified upgrades that took it to 520hp/520 ft-lbs. The CPO warrantly would be worth a lot to me. What can/will the selling dealer provide?

    2. Turbos, as far as I have been able to research, do NOT have the RMS leak issue, nor do GT3's.

    3. Not sure on the price, since I never shopped for one. But I would point out that a brand new well equiped 2006/7 C2S could be purchased for about $80-$85k and would be almost as quick as a stock (non "S" / X51) 2001 Turbo. That would be a reality check for me, even though I would concede the Turbo is more unique. It has also been speculated that used 996 Turbo prices are falling due to the availability of the 997 Turbo and its significant improvements at a relatively competitive price to what the last 996's Turbo S's sold for. That prbably doesn't have as much of an impact on a 2001.

    4. No idea on the maintenance.

    5. Other - I would ask for full documentation (annual/routine maintenance, mileage logs, etc). I apologize for sounding like a broken record, but since I have 10,000 miles on my 1 year old 911, I remain cautiously suspiscious of cars that have only been driven 9,000 miles in 5-6 years. And, if you get very serious, I'd have a Porsche mechanic do a complete inspection.
  • I agree. Even though I am a huge turbo fan and currently have a deposit on a 997TT, I would rather have a new 997S anyday than a 2001 Turbo. As stated the performance difference is not that great and I think the new interiors are much improved. I like the fact that I would have a full factory warranty. Just my 2cents. Good luck. :)
  • Never heard of a backseat in a GT3. No roll cage in US models I am told. I think you should consider a 997. The 2007 models are going for around 5% off MSRP and the new 06 models are going for 10-11% off MSRP. Great deals. If you plan on doing alot of track time that maybe the GT3 is for you. I agree with the post that you should test a used GT3 for a sense of what ownership may be like. Cheers.
  • Thanks very much. It was a big help!

    Have a nice weekend.

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