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Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,325
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    lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    There are some really nice stealthy conversions to Volvos, that one, not so much.
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    lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I always wanted to like those little 6-cyl MX-3s. After driving a couple, they seem to have the acceleration of a 4-cyl with the fuel consumption of a V6.
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    gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,303
    After the car has been in the family for 40 years, why does he need to find an owner so quickly??? That's kind of weird.
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    british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah I would maybe pay them 500 bucks but no more.

    It would make an ok trail only vehicle as long as the axels and T-case are good. Everything else does not matter. EAS would be swapped out for coil springs and the 4.0 would get ditched for a 4.0/4.6 hybrid combo. Strip all of the interior and who cars about the exterior.
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,864
    Andre, from the additional perspectives, I like the "base" grille better for the same reasons James mentioned. Give it a shot!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    More like $12.5K for that '61 Caddy in superior condition. It's not a popular model all things considered. That one is too rough for $5K. I doubt anyone would pay him that. Ask $3,500, take as low as $2,500 and take it in a red hot minute.
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    gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,303
    The ad is a little short on details, but this Mustang convertible really looks decent for the money. It's a V8 and the body looks presentable in the pics.

    I honestly like this

    If it doesn't have a rotted frame or anything severe like that, I like this for $5,000. This car has to be worth the mid to high teens once it's up to no 3 shape.

    This Malibu I'm not so crazy about.

    Alledgedly rolling chassis

    What's so precious about the steeting box that he's got to take it out?

    One last one:

    3 inch cowl hood and 2.8 liter V6 go well together.

    With IROCs going for $1500, why not start with one of those?
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    lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Mustang - understand that a 30+ year old car will not be in pristine condition. OK, but shouldn't at least have seats? Apparently it wouldn't be a good car for me, because just like the seller I have a life and a mortgage.

    Malibu - couple of hundred dollars in body parts, I guess. Apparently it isn't worth the money as a complete car or he wouldn't have taken out every single mechanical part, including the apparently very important steering box.

    Camaro - what a pile. Junkyard time.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,747
    but that 1980 Malibu has 1979 taillights on it. And I don't think I've ever seen an '80 in quite that shade of blue, but I have seen '79's in that color.

    Not that there's really any difference in value most likely between a '79 and an '80 Malibu. I had an '80, and it wasn't a bad car. I like the '79 style a bit better though because the grille is a bit less formal and the front-end has a more aggressive thrust to it.

    I'd imagine the thing originally had a junk 200 V-6 or 267 V-8 in it, hooked to the sucky THM200C tranny, and he pulled that out and was going to build this into a hotrod. It's actually pretty common to do that with 1978-81 Malibus, because they're about the smallest, lightest body-on-frame car that GM ever made, and can accommodate a big-block. As for the steering box, maybe he had installed a quicker ratio unit out of a copcar or maybe a Grand National, Monte SS or something, and wants to hang onto it. I'd think he'd want to keep the Grand National rear as well, but it's probably easier to sell a non-running car that can still roll, versus one that can't!

    Back then they also offered a 305 V-8 that put out, IIRC, 145 hp with the 2-bbl and 160 with the 4-bbl. A 350 was also optional but seldom ordered. It had 170 hp, which doesn't sound that much better than the 305-4, but I'm sure it had a lot more torque.

    I get nostalgic for my old Malibu sometimes, but not enough to go seek out one that needs a total rebuild! Besides, I have fond memories of that car and remember is as a good car. If I had a chance to drive one nowadays, it would probably crack my rose-tinted glasses! :shades:
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    jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    If you are being picky, then so am I. That circus colored "'71 Cutlass" in an earlier post had '72 tail lights.

    I had a '79 Cutlass Calais (RWD) with the chevy 305 4bbl. It ran good, but an intake design flaw would cause the #8 plug to fuel foul every 5K or so. GM mechanic said it was a common problem on the '79 305.

    Funny thing about that TH200 tranny. From day one, mine had a very soft "whirring" sound under hard acceleration, particularly 2nd gear. But 74K miles later I had not a single problem with it. Go figure.

    Oh MY! I just went back and looked at that ad again and realized the idiot (I guess the paint job already covered that description :P ) listed that as a CHEVY CUTLAS.

    Heresy!
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    gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,303
    "that 1980 Malibu has 1979 taillights"

    Clone cars have become a big thing and sometimes problem on the collector car circuit. If we're at the point where people are cloning 79 Malibus out of 80s, we're out of control.

    I of course would like to see the Mustang have an interior. It's not in condition where you could drive it home but practically everything is available repro. Let's say 3 grand later, the car has a pristine interior, you're still in pretty good shape.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,747
    Funny thing about that TH200 tranny. From day one, mine had a very soft "whirring" sound under hard acceleration, particularly 2nd gear. But 74K miles later I had not a single problem with it. Go figure.

    My 1980 Malibu had that TH200 tranny, and I never recall it having any problems. My Mom bought it new, gave it to me in 1987 with around 79,000 miles on it, and I sold it in 1990 when it was a bit over the 100,000 mile mark. I had bought a 1969 Dodge Dart GT by then, and couldn't afford to keep both cars. I ran into the people I sold it to about a year later, and they had 115,000 miles on it, and said they loved it and hadn't had any problems with it.

    But then, I had a 1982 Cutlass Supreme with the "superior" THM350 tranny. And had it rebuilt around the 62,000 mile mark. So sometimes ya just never know. Now to be fair, I bought this car used, in 1993, with 61,000 miles on it, for $800, so it may simply not have been taken care of. In contrast, I remember Mom got the tranny serviced on the Malibu every year, and once she gave it to me I kept up on that.

    Both of them just had V-6es, as well. 229 for the Malibu, 231 for the Cutlass. I wondered if just having the V-6 in the 'Bu might have also contributed to the long transmission life, whereas a V-8 might have put more strain on it?

    As for that #8 plug fouling, was it a 1979-only problem? Reason I'm asking is that I have a 1985 Silverado with a 305, and I wonder if it might do the same thing? Hopefully GM had the foresight to correct it by then!
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    jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    The '85 engine bears little resemblence to the '79. '79 was the last year without an ECM onboard.

    We had an '83 Calais with the Olds 307 and TH350 (I think) and never had problems with it, either. Come to think of it, my family has owned about 12 Cutlass' between us, and all were solid performers.

    And GM dumped Olds. That's what happens when bean counters take the company away from car people.
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    au1994au1994 Member Posts: 3,427
    Mustang has potential. Looks like new floor pans are in order. 'Verts were known for some rust in the cowl area as well. I'd look it over REAL close for rust underneath since its in NY. I would assume if he had any of the interior bits he would have mentioned it. But there is no way its a 5k car more like half of that, maybe 3500. Luckily parts for Mustangs are plentiful and cheap so if there's no serious rot and the motor/tranny is not shot you could have a nice driver for under 6-7k total investment.

    2021 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4xe Granite Crystal over Saddle
    2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,060
    I always wanted to like those little 6-cyl MX-3s. After driving a couple, they seem to have the acceleration of a 4-cyl with the fuel consumption of a V6.

    Well, to be fair, its a V6 that has less displacement than most 4-cylinders on the market.

    Mazda is not known for efficiency, that's for sure. I'm not really sure what they are doing wrong, but even their most current engines suck gas without giving too much in return.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,747
    We had an '83 Calais with the Olds 307 and TH350 (I think) and never had problems with it, either.

    Do you remember if that '83 Calais had overdrive or not? If it was an overdrive unit, then it was actually a 4-speed version of the THM200. I think they called it THM200-R4 or osmething like that. Earlier versions of this tranny, which came out in 1981, could be troubleprone, but in a rare move I think GM actually got on the ball and worked the kinks out of this tranny pretty quickly. My grandma had a 1985 LeSabre 307 with this tranny, that was troublefree as long as we had the car, 157,000 miles. My Mom had an '86 Monte with a 305-4bbl and this tranny, and it was still doing fine at 192,000 miles when I got t-boned one night delivering pizzas in it and the car went to bow-tie heaven.

    I wouldn't mind getting another Cutlass Supreme coupe sometime, but with the 307 instead of the V-6. In spite of the tranny pooping out and the engine self-destructing, I really liked that car.
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    gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,303
    "But there is no way its a 5k car more like half of that, maybe 3500"

    I think it's better @ 3500 than 5, but you have to think of the ceiling. V8 Mustang convertibles can go for a great deal of money. Show quality would probably fetch in the 20s or higher.

    I wonder about the interior parts are well. If you're planning on restoring the car, you just don't put everything in a dumpster yet he doesn't mention the parts. You'd at least hold on to the seats to see about having them redone. Maybe he's selling whatever is good separately.

    On this thread, we think that everything is overpriced and most are.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think you should take a more sober look at that Mustang Mike--I don't see the wisdom of this purchase myself. You can't build a nice car out of a car with a poor foundation. I see a LOT of work here---did you notice the bashed in inner fender wells in the engine compartment? And it looks like there is no window hardware in the doors. And I see evidence of rust. What's it like underneath?
    And the engine looks suspicious---might not be the right one.

    Sure you can get $30,000 for a really spiff '68 Mustang convertible, but you'll spend $30,000 on this one getting there....

    I'd say if it ran well and had an interior, even a shabby one, and windows that worked, it'd be worth $5,000 to just drive around and leave the top down in the rain like the previous owner obviously did.

    Anyway, if you got this as is with a PARTS car included for $3,500, that might be okay. But you'll never make a nice car out of this stray dog without taking it completely apart, IMHO.

    If it were a numbers correct 65-67 GT with a 4-speed, I'd say go for it.
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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,060
    would make for a good winter beater. Looks to be in nice shape, too.

    Why do all this just to sell it for $4k??

    I noticed this at its first price ... looks much better at the new price.

    Ya gotta worry when the paint doesn't even look good from THIS far away!

    Just because you think its desirable, doesn't mean it is. Yes, its rare. Yes, some folks actually look to buy the Bertones ... but no way is it worth that!!

    Here's a car where you just CAN'T be skimpy on the description and pics like this.

    Is it just me or does this seem too cheap? May be a scam, but they usually seem to use more recent or more desirable cars. Although its the same layout as most of the scams (VIN included). I'll email and find out.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Wow, the Subie seems to be way underpriced! Here in CO, I could probably get that for my FIL's '92 (or is it a '93?) Legacy wagon with 135K.
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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,060
    If we had some sort of local rallycross, I'd be all over it. :)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah that is hardly any rally cross activity up here either. Very depressing. We have a some what active snow cross club that I want to take a Range Rover Sport to one day. I think it would be kind of funny to drive one around their course.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,747
    on the Subaru Kool-Aid, but even I kinda like that Legacy Outback for the price!
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,747
    but a tad bit pricey.

    Who the hell buys something like this and then puts it away for nearly 30 years? :confuse:
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,325
    That Outback looks like a bargain....you could easily double that price here among all the Subie nuts.

    Cool old Squire, but yeah his price is a few times too high.

    Nice late fintail...rare floor shift
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,747
    With those fintails, are the ones that have the single headlight actually smaller overall than the ones with the stacked headlights? Or is it just a styling trick?

    For some reason the single-headlight models look too stubby to me, whereas the ones with the vertical quads look "just right"
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Man I'm with you. A Subaru is about the last car I'd consider owning. I find them very clunky, and the WRX STi is a rough piece of work.

    Looks like that ad was yanked by management.
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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,060
    I don't believe for a second its only 600 miles.

    Like you said, who would do that?

    Even if by some odd stroke of weird fate, it DOES only have 600 miles, there is no way to prove it.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,060
    Yanked? The subie? Huh. I just tried the link and it worked. Strange.

    Another strange thing is that I've tried emailing the seller twice on that SC400 and craigslist mailer demon has kicked it back twice ... yet the ad still stands and the address has not changed. Hmmmm...

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,747
    low mileage wonder. This one's even more hysterical, at only 51 miles! Price seems more reasonable, though. I kinda like this one. I always thought that dove gray looked good on those overblown Grand Marquises. Nice, cushy interior too!

    If I had more money than I knew what to do with, I think I'd actually consider this one.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm getting this message on the Subaru link:

    "This posting has been removed by craigslist staff."

    Low Mileage Wonders: I mean, WHO CARES how many miles a 1978 Ford Station Wagon has on it? Like it matters? Try $5,000.
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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,060
    that's weird. its still working for me. I even ran a search on Craigs and it came up with no problem. The SC400 link still works, too, but I tried to search for that and it didn't come up.

    Maybe Craigs is glitching today ... or maybe its me.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Too bad about the interior... that color scheme belongs in a '58 Bel Air.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,747
    but the "Is it just me or does this seem too cheap?" link doesn't work for me.
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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,060
    That's the SC400. That one must have been deleted.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Turn of the century scooby-doos had a recall/TSB for head gasket failure. This one might be more of a project than he let on.
    Shifty, the WRX STI is a bit rough, but when you pay extra to have all the sound deadening/heat insulation removed, what do you expect?
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,864
    Sadly, I recognize that truck! As a child, I used to see it in the "dress up parade" that kicked off Round-Up week in Pendleton. Hahaha. What a small world...
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,864
    No, at that price, I bet you anything it has a head gasket issue. Granted, to replace those gaskets is a few hour project at best, but still.... it would be a project. I'm sure I could probably get that, or close, ($2600) out of mine today and it has 212K miles and a few visual blemishes.

    The HG problem was an issue in the 2.5L from its intro in 1996 until at least 2002 (if it was a problem after that, not cropping up enough yet to be recognized by Subaru). They put out a TSB on '99 through part of '02. Only. A real stab in the back for the '96 through '98 owners.

    Anyway, if this one did not have any problems as the owner suggests, I'd be tempted to fly down there and buy it just to have a car with 50% the miles! It probably does not have the best fit/finish of all the makes, but I've seen scarce few cars that can compare to it in winter driving - and I live for winter driving...
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,864
    No kidding..... it says "all original service records." Service records? If it needed service in 600 miles of use, that worries me...... :P
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You get yourself a good Audi Quattro, it'll perform equally or outperform a Subaru. And you can have build quality instead of reliability, but you can't have BOTH!!

    WRX-- yeah, I often wondered why someone thought that taking out 30 lbs of sound-deadening was really the competitive edge while driving to the mall. The EVO has a similar model (was it the RS?)...if you open the trunk you can see the springs on the back seat!
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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,060
    Granted, to replace those gaskets is a few hour project at best

    Really? I'd be surprised.

    Just replacing the timing belt on our '98 Forester took me and my father a few hours. What an annoying task! Lining up 4 cams and keeping them in place while trying to snake on the belt drove me to kick the car several times.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,060
    Swinger Special

    Maybe $1k or maybe $2k ... he can't decide how to price this old Lesabre. Pics would be nice either way.

    Hmmmm... whaddya think? Too cheap?

    Not my thing, but maybe someone here would like to see this cutlass.

    Keep dreaming.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,325
    Yep...the single light cars are actually considered to be a different platform, a W110. They are a couple inches shorter, but are identical from the front doors back (save for trim etc).

    Might be neat, not expensive for a coupe, is that an early teens brass T beside it?

    Something not seen every day
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,325
    Wow, that's a crazy coincidence. I have yet to see a car I know on CL.

    About that Squire, I bet the miles are real. I bet it was saved by some kooky dealer who saw it as the last of the big fullsized cars before the downsized 79s came about. The same people who saved all those 78 Eldos you can now find with no mileage.
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    ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ....but I like that this is a 5-speed, that the seller is honest about its flaws, and the price is pretty good, IMO:

    http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/car/192557021.html
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,864
    Well..... I might have been exaggerating a little bit. I have re-placed the timing belt on mine 5 times now, so that is more routine than anything, but it was a definite pain the first couple times. I could probably go from start-to-finish on a timing belt replacement now in 2 hours - maybe 3 if I ran into some stubborn bolts or other unforseen problems. Now for the gaskets, more like 12 hours depending on how strickly in-and-out one wanted to go, but certainly not anything exceptionally taxing.

    Grr. I have to stop thinking about it because really, I am tempted - but the kicker is that it would have to be in honestly reliable enough condition for a quick 4500 mile sprint back to Alaska. :mad:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,864
    Grr. I have to stop thinking about it because really, I am tempted - but the kicker is that it would have to be in honestly reliable enough condition for a quick 4500 mile sprint back to Alaska.

    Whew. Saved. The author deleted the post, so must have sold already.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Not bad but that one line, that one tiny line in the ad sends shivers through me:

    "it could use some new fuses"

    Now let's take that line apart a bit. Are the fuses like...too heavy to lift into the fuse box? Were they too expensive?

    Or, in fact, when you put a fuse in it goes POP! and then you get a whiff of smoke from the wiring harness and no radio, no dash lights, no tail lights, no heater blower and no top......
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