Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

andre1969

I saw the Benz SUV was in the second "Jurassic Park" movie. I didn't really know WHAT to make of it at the time. Honestly it looked more minivan than SUV to me!

Back then though, SUVs tended to be more rugged looking, trucky things so the Benz M class probably swayed more towards minivan than SUV in styling at the time, anyway.

I do remember when that Kia Sorrento came out, thinking that it looked a lot more expensive and upscale than it really was. Perhaps a ripoff of the M class, but more attractive stylistically IMO. And now that the M has been redesigned, I hate to say it, but even though I think it's better looking, I still mistake them for Kias at a quick glance!

qbrozen

I think the price is right. Could be an interesting cruiser. i wonder if he listed this Tbird he is referring to.

Do I only get the rims??

Not the T-bird referred to above. But still a rather unloved year. I'd like to pick one of these up one of these days just because I still think they are pretty, but they're cheap because I'm in the minority.

fintail

Price is a joke given the work needed, but these things seem to have vanished off the face of the earth. I remember when they were very common

Mr_Shiftright

Nissan Q45 --- yeah, I think a mere $7,000 or so would fix that Q45 engine, no problemo...

TR7 -- the TR8 is more desirable, but that lame Buick 215 is no great shakes either--it has its own set of horrible problems...Rover did major development on that engine over the years, and finally achieved mediocrity with it. Best avoid these cars altogether like most sensible people do.

DATSUN B210 -- it would make a great disposable commuter car, or a first-timer for a 16 year old. You could replace the head gasket in nothing flat and the radiator is a simple fix. But $750? I don't think so. Try $250.

61 Galaxie-- I find this a really unattractive car. Thank God for the Mustang, or Ford would have been dead with dreadful styling like this---compare and contrast to '61 GM products!

lilengineerboy

Sure you could fix it, but it would still be ugly as sin :P

fintail

re: the Galaxie...is it that bad? Compare it to it's Chevy equal, an Impala 4 door post ...not exactly a beauty queen itself. Maybe I'm just biased because my dad rescued a 60 Ford when I was younger, and it was a cool car.

Admittedly, the coupes looked a lot better, but the Ford Starliner wasn't ugly either. Ford does seem to have had a stodgier image though....I suspect those 62-64 midsize GM coupes like Impalas etc were much more trendy than their Fomoco counterparts.

I was thinking $50 was right for that B210 (I always liked those hubcaps when I was little). My dad's $100 610 is in 10 times better shape. Give it a good hard detail and take it to local shows as a freak.

fintail

I don't know if this is good or not

andre1969

I think Ford was trying to go for a bit more of a formal, upscale look which appealed to a certain buyer, while the Chevy was a bit more sporty.

If anything, one thing that might have saved Ford's bacon in the early 60's is the fact that Mopar was pretty much a no-show in the basic full-sized arena from 1962-64. And the '61 Plymouths and Dodge Darts were goofy enough to send buyers to Ford and Chevy in droves.

Now I do prefer the '61 Chevy to the '61 Ford, but I don't think the '61 Ford's bad looking. If I were to rate the cars in that category for 1961, it would be something like
#1: Chevy
#2: Ford
#3: Dodge Dart (and that's a distant #3)
#4: just about any used car
#5: a bicycle
#6: a pair of Chucks
#7: a pair of cheap Chuck knock-offs
#8: a bottle of Rat-B-Gone
#9: a '61 Plymouth

I think the 1963 Ford is an attractive car. I think for that year I prefer it to the Chevy. And for 1964, I think it's a tossup between the Ford and the Chevy. I don't think either one's ugly, but neither one blows me away with that style, either. I think Chevy hits its peak for that bodystyle in 1962, while Ford hit theis in 1963.

lilengineerboy

Ugly as sin was in reference to the B210

fintail

Indeed the 63 Ford was the peak of that style...the 64 is so busy, and the 62 looks kinda old. I kinda like the 64 with its squared off accents...the 62 is nice too. I don't care for the 63 Chevys as much.

Funny thing, I just noticed that 61 is wearing hubcaps likely from a late 60s or early 70s Ford pickup. I know this as my first car, a 66 Galaxie, came with 2 sets of caps - originals and one just like the ones on that 61. I was at a junkyard where the caps were sorted by make and approximate year, and those were grouped as a period Ford truck.

Might be nice

Yeah it's odd and cool in its own way...but calm down

Mr_Shiftright

$1 for the Subaru brat? I'd pay that.

'61 Chevy is a nice looking car...it's pretty classic 60s stuff. The 61 Ford is sheer chaos to me, a hodge-podge of styling events. Looks like the clay model fell on the floor and they kind of patched it up before the boss got there.

gsemike

I would take that in a minute for 11 grand if it looks that good in person. Even if it's a clone, that's a nice car.

ghulet

...with the '61 Ford, at least that model, is that it's an early-60s car on top (decent thin-pillared period greenhouse) laid atop some pretty bad leftover '50s styling cliches (clunky chrome under the trunk, tiny afterthought fins with round taillights, bulbous, roundy front end and the slab of chrome trim on the lower rear fenders). It's one of those rare cars where I like the lower trim lines better--a Custom 300 at least doesn't have all that ugly trim (think first season of 'Andy Griffith'). I would agree that the same basic car, cleaned up and modernized (the '63) is nice looking. The '62 to me always looked about twice as big as its frame, kind of a hippo riding on 14" training wheels.

Oh yeah, that Galaxie has the standard-issue '71-72 Ford caps (one of the unusual cases where they were available on the full-sizers, F150 AND vans--our '72 Club Wagon had them).

Found this on our local craigslist....not my cup of tea exactly (a 119hp six with an automatic hauling around 19 feet and 4200 pounds of car=not too fun), but interesting and rare nonetheless:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/car/193553869.html

fintail

A relatively reasonably priced diesel

Not the best color combo

Very few of these left in decent shape

Mr_Shiftright

54'Chrysler -- this car has everything against it....a limo body style which nobody wants (well almost nobody), and as you say, vastly underpowered...also the regrettable "old man" body styling of 1954. So yeah, $5K is all the money. I hope the thing has power steering or the driver is going to need a Nautilus membership and 60 lbs of air in the front tires.

BMW 530i -- I always wave red flags at mid to late 70s BMWs. This era was problematic for BMW and many other manufacturers as well. As I recall the 5 series engines like to crack their cylinder heads, just for fun. But this one looks to be in very nice shape. This is the kind of car you want to test drive real hard for 1/2 hour and play with all the dials and switches before and after. Might be okay, although price is a tad optimistic. $2,500 seems more than fair, even for pristine condition. Odd duck, hard to find parts, nobody wants to work on them.

My opinion? buy an 80s 325 or 735 and be happier for the same price. More parts, more modern, better fuel mileage.

michaellno

I dated a girl in HS whose dad owned one of these .. not sure of the year (we dated in '82), but he used to pull a trailer with a TQ Midget (three quarter midget - a sprint car powered by a 750cc motorcycle engine). That car would haul butt even wtih 5 of us in it and pulling the trailer with the race car on it.

Ah, the memories....

jlflemmons

No salt used around Taylor, Texas. Heck, it rarely snows. Or rains, for that matter ...

http://austin.craigslist.org/car/191827956.html

qbrozen

looks nice ... in the dark ... from 20 feet away ... at low resolution.

I just can't fathom why, if someone thinks they have a valuable car, they can't make a good ad.

jlflemmons

We're talking Taylor, Texas here ...

I am impressed he found a computer to post with!

Actually, Taylor has grown significantly in the last few years. For decades it was just a wide spot in the road between University of Texas and Texas A&M.

lilengineerboy

Shifty...
The 5-series to get is the 528. I think it is from 1978-1981. The earlier 530i (and related 6 series) use a thermal reactor to meet emissions requirements and it would cook the head gaskets and heads.
A 528i is a pretty great ride if you are into the 80s BMW stuff. The one I had experience with desperately needed its shifter rebuilt (not the trans) which made it a little hard to shift (especially reverse) but it was a great car. We had many high school road trips with it.
I would probably pass on a 530 myself.

Mr_Shiftright

A 528i yes, a 528e is kind of a dog I think.

michaellno

I remember vividly the buff books panning the "e" series BMWs (528e, 325e) since they only revved to about 5000 RPM as a way to save fuel.

Totally removed the soul of what made a BMW.

oregonboy

The e-series BMWs were an early attempt to improve fuel economy. As I recall, they were a powered low-revving engine (which is contrary to one of BMWs prime virtues). (edit: I see that Michaell remembers them too.)

I have recently seen 325e(s) advertised and wondered if the large six in the smaller/lighter 3-series might make up for the low-revving engine with decent performance and fuel economy. (?)

james

qbrozen

This 240dl i found last week was relisted today. Its still tempting ... but I gotta wonder how bad it is to not have already sold at $200.

lilengineerboy

You are correct sir, the 528e was introduced in the US in '82.

The eta motor isn't terrible, it was very Americanized in that it had a lot of torque very low down so it felt quick off the line, but didn't like to rev so much.
My friend who had the 528i gave it to her mother because she wanted a 3 series and got a 325e. At the time, it wasn't so bad, and you have to look at that market at the time...Merkur XR4Ti and Maserati BiTurbo/425, Mbz 190D/E, and the eh, Cadillac Cimarron. And that eta motor actually did get reasonable fuel economy at the time.

stickguy

Hey, If I wasn't too lazy to drive over to Bensalem, it cold be my sons first car!

They really need a picture with this ad. The last iteration said needs a rad support, now it needs headlight clips. If I had to guess, it sounds like it was smacked in the front end and needs some parts, which could be major.

Other than that, a little rust around the wheel wells was I think a standard factory option, and new tires alone are worth the price!

qbrozen

oh yeah, that's right.

maybe next week it will be "needs front bumper."

put all the ads together over a month and maybe you'd have the full story.

qbrozen

At least its a stick!

sounds like a divorce waiting to happen.

here you go stickguy. nice low miles ... but it is an automatic and has busted AC.

fintail

So someone likes 240 wagons I take it. Those things are very common around here, they must have really been some kind of trendy vehicle when new. Here are a few locals:

Late pricier example

5 speed

5 speed and turbo

gsemike

"The owner of Ikea drives this same model."

Who gives a crap? And Ronald McDonald probably drove a VW bug that could fit 20.

Mr_Shiftright

The joke about Volvos in the 1980s was this: "Volvos are for people who hate cars".

A 240 just about squeezed any semblance of driving pleasure out of the experience of getting behind the wheel. But it did get you there.

fintail

"The joke about Volvos in the 1980s was this: "Volvos are for people who hate cars"

haha...that's what I say about Saturns

Mr_Shiftright

or the Prius.

Anyway, I wouldn't recommend buying some rusted up piece of junk Volvo---you'll never see your money out of it and nobody will feel good driving it. Besides, cars that neglected can be death traps.

british_rover

Well you could shove a 5.0 mustang motor in it.



http://www.converseengineering.com/inhouse.htm

A guy I knew in college had a 1990 or 1991 Volvo Wagon with a stroked 5.0 motor in it. He had a T-5 in it and the plate read V8 BRICK. It was pretty quick and would have been a complete sleeper if he didn't have the plate and the loud 3 inch dual exhaust.

fintail

There has to be a missing decimal point in this...$35.00 sounds fair...$350 might be a stretch

I remember the TV coverage of the fire that claimed this...always sad

Is this a Caballero? I do like HT wagons, pretty cool

Here's that less than subtle V8 Volvo

andre1969

I just looked in my old car book, and it looks like technically, it was only a Caballero if it was the Century hardtop wagon. There was also a Special hardtop wagon called the Riviera Estate. There was also just a Special wagon, which I presume was pillared.

I always thought the Caballero was something rare, but it appears it was actually the most popular Buick wagon model in 1957 and 1958! They built 4456 of them in 1958.

I always thought it was an interesting style, and the 1957 version is downright beautiful. It's amazing to think that the '57 and '58 are from the same body shell.

When I see them up close at car shows though, they really don't seem all that practical or roomy inside. I'd be curious to know how much cargo area the things are rated at, but I think data like that from that far back is often sketchy. IIRC, I think I read somewhere that the '57-59 Mopar wagons had 95 cubic feet of cargo area.

But, if you're buying something like that nowadays, you don't buy it for the cargo capacity! :P

stickguy

That Celica is near me (I used to live in Burlington), and doesn't look half bad, if maybe a little pricey. Probably not great for a kids first car, just becasue of the insurance. But, it might be good for me, not that I need a car now, and I don't have a commute that requires a beater.

As to the Volvos, if a 17yo boy is going to have a car, a painfully slow brick on wheels with no semblance of sportiness, but built like a tank, sounds just about perfect. Besides, a beater wagon could come in handy as a utility car when I needed one.

I also got real excited about getting a car for $200 (must be the latent puritanism coming out)!

Mr_Shiftright

I think a kid would hate it. It's humiliating to drive one of those, especially a beater version. If I were the kid, I'd figure out how to destroy it ASAP. Get him something with air bags that can actually go around a corner without tipping over.

fintail

These can't be common

These fuselage cars seem to be everywhere lately

"not bad for a 20 year old car"...uh ok

stickguy

I learned to drive on a '69 144s 4 speed, no power steering or brakes, and it wasn't that bad. Heck, it was even kind of "sporty", or maybe that was just me rationalizing it?

His other likely possibility is a hand me down Saturn (a '95 I think) from Grandma, a 5 speed with about 100K on it, so it's not like his other options are going to impress the rich kids in town!

He will continue to have access to his bike and the school bus if the available automotive choices don't meet his standards!

Also, keep in mind that I live in NJ. Adding a beater and him to the policy can easily up the insurance by $300- $350 PER MONTH.

andre1969

so how come he's been trying to sell it since 1998 then and hasn't had any takers? :P

I'll give it this much though...for $650 it actually doesn't look TOO bad. Maybe I should point my roommate who has a Granada fetish (his first car was a 1979 or so) and see if he's interested? He has a '95 F-150 pickup back in Michigan that's been sitting for about 2 1/2 years now. He was going to go back and get it and bring it out here, but his parents had it checked out by their mechanic and he came up with about $2800 worth of work. Now sure, I'm sure some of that is padding, but he did say the tranny was starting to go, too. I had thought about buying it off of him to replace my aging Silverado, but in this case, it doesn't look like a 10 year newer truck would be an advantage.

kapbot

Garp mobile
The motor & tranny are only worth $700, but the body is worth a grand?
Since when does cherry = "needs work"?
I don't know what to think
Overpriced?
A REAL project, I'm sure!
Pimped Vette

lemko

That Granada isn't a '78. It's a '77 or older. The '78 Granada had twin rectangular headlights and a smaller grille.

lemmer

I've always liked the X1/9. Offhand, I can't think of any sportscar that is cheaper to buy.

qbrozen

I think a kid would hate it. It's humiliating to drive one of those, especially a beater version.

It all depends on the kid. I had one college roommate with an old 240 wagon with a couple hundred thousand miles on it, and he was quite proud of it. Then there was this other roommate with one of the first Nissan Sentras, I believe, rusted to hell, nothing but seat covers over springs, etc, and he was also very proud of it. I think there is a certain gitchiness (spelling?) that goes with an old beater, and pride in the fact that you are brave enough to drive it just about anywhere.

I've got a whole list of high school buddies I remember were the same way, too. We'd get together and criticize those who drove new cars, courtesy of their folks, while sharing our "I had to patch a fuel hose with duct tape to get home at 2 am" stories.

andre1969

and started driving, usually the kids with newer cars had something crappy and slow and tiny, like a Lynx, Civic, 4-cylinder Mustang, Tercel, Chevette, Cavalier, or something equally lame.

So by and large, at that time there was little pride to be had in having a newer car. I do remember there was this one goofy, pimply-faced kid with a high forehead who got a new Trans Am in his junior year. This would've been the 1985-86 school year, when I was a sophomore. It was black with gold trim/chicken, and pretty sharp looking. He became instantly cool, as I recall, when he got that car.

There was another kid in my class who drove a 1984 Porsche 924. However, it was his parents and they didn't let him drive it often...usually he drove a Cavalier.

My English teacher my senior year had a 1978 Pontiac Catalina, 2-tone burgundy with a 400. She was trying to sell it and only wanted $500 for it. I wanted that thing SOOO badly, but my Mom & stepdad wouldn't let me buy it. I guess my tastes haven't changed much over the years.

qbrozen

The ones who got fast cars inevitably wrecked them. It became an ongoing joke. Someone would pull up in a new fast car, and we'd start betting when they'd wreck it.

Then there were those parents we suspect wanted to kill their kids. One girl I remember in particular who totalled her Camaro. Obviously, her folks figured she wasn't going fast enough, so they replaced it with a 3000GT. Oh, and the kid who lived down the road from me who wrecked his Honda motorcycle, spent a few weeks in the hospital, and mom gave him a BMW bike when he got out (sorry, i don't know bikes and don't know the names, I just know it was bigger and MUCH faster).

andre1969

when I lived in my condo, one of the neighbors had a kid who had a beat-up but serviceable 1988-92 era Corolla. Then, one day I see it's gone and he's driving a 1974 or so Firebird. Red. T-tops. 4-speed. I dunno what engine it had in it, but I think it was a 400 or 455. Nice rumble to it. I think it lasted about 2-3 months before it got totaled. I remember thinking that a lot of parents probably went through this back in the 70's when they bought their kids these types of cars.

qbrozen

Quite the ugly porsche.

miles and price are a bit high. But at least its an S model. I think it may be a stick (can kinda see the shiftboot, i think). Whaddya think, Shifty? Maybe a $1500-$1800 car?

Could be a good beater workhorse.

chrome bumper MGB that the seller is not asking the moon for.

Seems fairly reasonable for a rare vehicle. Knowing the miles would help.

here's one of those MX3s again. 4-cyl this time.

Mr_Shiftright

I have NOTHING against giving a kid an older car...in fact...endorse that concept...but not a shabby beater (in this day and age). I mean, would you want someone's torn pants as a hand-me down? That's not the same as YOU buying your own funny pants in a thrift store.

And also, gentlemen, as enthusiasts, we have an obligation to provide the young and impressionable at least with a DECENT driving experience. A Volvo wagon is about as cheerless and funless an experience as one could pack into a car. In hell we would all be forced to drive them.

At least with a Volvo 144 sedan or coupe you had that long stickshift and a not seriously overweight car....and not being a wagon, you didn't have the tail wagging the dog around every turn.